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[Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

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Smoove_B
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:43 am I was under the impression that pasteurization got rid of things like bird flu from milk which is in support of not drinking raw milk. What happened to this line of thinking?
The monitoring is incomplete:
However, the testing completed so far—using quantitative polymerase chain reaction (qPCR)—only detects the presence of viral genetic material and cannot tell whether the genetic material is from live and infectious viral particles or merely remnants of dead ones killed by the pasteurization process.
Note:
So far, the FDA still believes that the milk supply is safe.
I've learned from COVID-19 that belief is the most important thing.
"At this time, there continues to be no concern that this circumstance poses a risk to consumer health, or that it affects the safety of the interstate commercial milk supply because products are pasteurized before entering the market" the FDA wrote in an FAQ published Friday. "Pasteurization has continually proven to inactivate bacteria and viruses, like influenza, in milk."

...

Nevertheless, the FDA, along with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the US Department of Agriculture, have continued to investigate potential risks, including establishing whether pasteurization can inactivate this specific virus. The FDA noted in its announcement Tuesday that, while pasteurization is expected to kill the virus, pasteurization is "different than complete sterilization."
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Smoove_B
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Probably more details than what most want to know, but it's good information. He lists out 6 key points, and here's a quick highlight of some of them:
Confirmation of H5N1 infected dairy cattle herds in 8 states. But the FDA report yesterday of commerical milk PCR positivity strongly supports that the cattle spread is far wider than these 8 states.

...

From the great work of U Arizona evolutionary biologist Michael Worobey who (heroically) analyzed the 239 H5N1 sequences that were released Sunday night for the first time, it was likely a single initiation of transmission from bird to cows. USDA stated they believe teh outbreak in dairy cattle in the US began in late 2023, initially inTexas.

...

For the readiness plan in case human transmission does occur, the public officials asserted that Tamiflu would be effective and it has been stockpiled, that gearing up testing would be done and, if necessary, the US could fully shift its annual flu vaccine production to make H5N1 shots at scale. They have 2 candidate H5N1 vaccines in hand that are well matched to the current sequence and there is the possibility to augment vaccine supply via mRNA-nanoparticle production.

...

A Federal order was put out this morning to mandate testing and reporting of cattle infected, measures to avoid further spread.

...

Routine testing of pigs, which is important due to their potential facilitation of spread to humans, has been negative to date. To date, data we have are based on dairy cattle; little is known or available about beef cattle, but occupational exposure notifications have been put out to dairy farms and slaughterhouses.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Information today indicates more information about affected cattle:
A senior official from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said today that its nationwide survey of retail milk has found remnants of H5N1 avian flu viruses in one in five samples, with the highest concentrations in regions where outbreaks in dairy cattle have been reported.

...

Prater reiterated that the FDA hasn't changed its assessment that the nation's milk supply remains safe. So far, early work on milk samples that were positive for H5N1 fragments haven't found any viable (potentially infectious) virus.

He said, however, that the FDA still has a long list of data gaps to fill, including identifying the risk of infection to humans via oral consumption and validating that existing pasteurization methods can inactivate H5N1.

Other data gaps include how long the virus survives in raw milk and the infectious dose of viruses. Though a major concern is retail milk, Prater also said the FDA needs to see if contamination is occurring in other products, such as cheese made from raw milk.
I feel like...maybe we haven't been doing nearly as much testing of cattle as we should have been?
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Holy crap:
The City Council of Long Beach, California has authorized a public health emergency in response to a local outbreak of tuberculosis.

The city's health officer, Dr. Anissa Davis, declared the emergency last week, after its health department detected 14 tuberculosis cases at a single-room occupancy hotel. The City Council vote on Tuesday night served as the final approval for the declaration.

Nine tuberculosis patients have been hospitalized and one has died, according to the health department. As of Monday, about 175 people had been exposed to tuberculosis as a result of the outbreak.
Of note:
The outbreak was reported amid a national rise in tuberculosis cases, which have increased since 2020 after 27 years of decline. The U.S. recorded 9,615 active infections last year — a 16% increase over the previous year.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by LordMortis »

:x I ended my 4 month round of antibiotics last Thursday. Delaying my second arm surgery for three months. I will get to go out do the things one day, now that I'm over four years into the mostly staying at home alone thing. Before the surgeons said no rehab. Now they say rehab from scratch. So no Okkerville River this month... I this close... again.
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Victoria Raverna
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 08, 2024 6:47 pm Holy crap:
The City Council of Long Beach, California has authorized a public health emergency in response to a local outbreak of tuberculosis.

The city's health officer, Dr. Anissa Davis, declared the emergency last week, after its health department detected 14 tuberculosis cases at a single-room occupancy hotel. The City Council vote on Tuesday night served as the final approval for the declaration.

Nine tuberculosis patients have been hospitalized and one has died, according to the health department. As of Monday, about 175 people had been exposed to tuberculosis as a result of the outbreak.
Of note:
The outbreak was reported amid a national rise in tuberculosis cases, which have increased since 2020 after 27 years of decline. The U.S. recorded 9,615 active infections last year — a 16% increase over the previous year.
Californians need BCG vaccines?
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Punisher »

Isn't there a vaccine fir TB?
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Victoria Raverna
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Punisher wrote: Thu May 09, 2024 8:01 am Isn't there a vaccine fir TB?
Yes.

BCG vaccine.

But one problem with that is it is only effective for infant. Not effective for adult.

That means it isn't going to help with the current outbreak. You need to vaccinate infant to prevent outbreak in the future, not to stop current outbreak.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by gilraen »

There's also no definitive answer as to how long BCG lasts (which may be part of the reason why it never got widespread adoption in the US, because they decided that the cost didn't justify the result). Officially it lasts for 10-15 years so basically meant to protect the child from TB until they reach adulthood, but persistent immunity has been observed in studies of vaccinated people 40 years later. Growing up in the USSR, pretty much everyone my age and older were vaccinated with BCG - but there were also TB clinics in every city. Go figure.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Of course they are:
Mark McAfee, founder of Fresno’s Raw Farm and the Raw Milk Institute, said his phone has been ringing off the hook with “customers asking for H5N1 milk because they want immunity from it.” (Bird flu has not been detected in California’s dairy herds.)
Note:
“Deliberating consuming raw milk in the hope of becoming immune to avian influenza is playing Russian roulette with your health,” said Michael Payne, a researcher and outreach coordinator at the Western Institute for Food Safety and Security at UC Davis. “Deliberately trying to infect yourself with a known pathogen flies in the face of all medical knowledge and common sense.”

He and other food safety experts say the safest way to consume dairy is to ingest only pasteurized milk products.

“It’s been the gold standard for more than a century,” he said.
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Victoria Raverna
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Next. Try to be immune to HIV by infecting themselves with HIV?
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by gilraen »

Aren't these viruses generally too brittle to survive stomach acids, so will not infect the host if ingested?
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, I don't think anyone has confirmed it's transmissible through raw milk. However, with all the cats that have been found sick or dead, it does suggest it's possible as it seems to be a reasonable pathway. That said, I would be kind of surprised to learn milk is a vehicle. Also, don't drink raw milk.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Can't we just let these people form a colony, then give them whatever it is they want?
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Victoria Raverna »

gilraen wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 11:44 am Aren't these viruses generally too brittle to survive stomach acids, so will not infect the host if ingested?
Even if stomach acids can kill those viruses, to get to stomach, they still go through the mouth, throat, etc. So while those ended up in the stomach are destroyed or become inactive, there are probably still enough that don't end up in the stomach.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Texas Tech confirms first avian influenza case from cow to human :dance:
An article published in the New England Journal of Medicine said in March a farm workers who was in contact with dairy cattle began showing symptoms and later samples collected by scientists tested positive for influenza A.

Texas Tech University’s Biological Threat Research Laboratory played a huge part in confirming the case.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Kinda surprised to learn that mice caught H5N1 avian influenza from raw milk in experiments:
Experiments with raw milk from cows infected with H5N1 avian influenza found that mice fed droplets quickly became ill, with high virus levels in their respiratory tissues, researchers reported today.

In other tests, the group also used the raw milk samples to examine how heat inactivation and cold storage affect virus levels. A team from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and Texas A&M Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory published their findings today in a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine.
Thankfully human beings have access to fully pasteurized milk and don't in any way demand access to raw milk for themselves, their kids or their pets.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Kraken »

Does that imply that there could be something to the raw milk as vaccine idea? I mean, “cow” is right there in “vaccine.” If the virus in cow's milk infects mice, could it produce antibodies in humans? Hypothetically, I mean. I know there’s zero science behind the idea.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

Good luck getting the dose right.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Kraken »

That’s what we pay cows for.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Max Peck »

Kraken wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 9:46 pm Does that imply that there could be something to the raw milk as vaccine idea? I mean, “cow” is right there in “vaccine.” If the virus in cow's milk infects mice, could it produce antibodies in humans? Hypothetically, I mean. I know there’s zero science behind the idea.
It's just a variant on the old "get infected to get antibodies to protect you from getting infected" scheme.

Enlarge Image

Having said that, there's clearly money to be made by selling raw milk from infected cattle to anti-vaxxers who are pro-raw-milk. :coffee:
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Kraken wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 9:46 pm Does that imply that there could be something to the raw milk as vaccine idea? I mean, “cow” is right there in “vaccine.” If the virus in cow's milk infects mice, could it produce antibodies in humans? Hypothetically, I mean. I know there’s zero science behind the idea.
Well, yeah - I mean, I assume that being exposed to the disease at full-strength and surviving would provide you with some protection. Sort of like COVID parties.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Max Peck »

Another classic tale of horror from the files of Beth Mole...

Family stricken with rare brain worms after eating undercooked bear
In the summer of 2022, a family gathered in South Dakota for a reunion that included a special meal—kabobs made with the meat of a black bear that one of the family members had "harvested" from northern Saskatchewan, Canada, that May. Lacking a meat thermometer, the family assessed the doneness of the dark-colored meat by eye. At first, they accidentally served it rare, which a few family members noticed before a decision was made to recook it. The rest of the reunion was unremarkable, and the family members departed to their homes in Arizona, Minnesota, and South Dakota.

But just days later, family members began falling ill. One, a 29-year-old male in Minnesota, sought care for a mysterious illness marked by fever, severe muscle pains, swelling around his eyes (periorbital edema), high levels of infection-fighting white blood cells (eosinophilia, a common response to parasites), and other laboratory anomalies. The man sought care four times and was hospitalized twice in a 17-day span in July. It wasn't until his second hospitalization that doctors learned about the bear meat—and then it all made sense.

The doctors suspected the man had a condition called trichinellosis and infection of Trichinella nematodes (roundworms). These dangerous parasites can be found worldwide, embedded into the muscle fibers of various carnivores and omnivores, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But, it's quite rare to find them in humans in North America. Between 2016 and 2022, there were seven outbreaks of trichinellosis in the US, involving just 35 cases. The majority were linked to eating bear meat, but moose and wild boar meat are also common sources.

Once eaten, larvae encased in the meat are released and begin to invade the small intestines (the gastrointestinal phase), causing pain, diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting. Then, the larvae develop into adults in the gut, mate, and produce more larvae there. The second generation of worms then go wandering through the lymphatic system, into the blood, and then throughout the body (systemic phase). The larvae can end up all over, reaching skeletal muscles, the heart, and the brain, which is rich in oxygen. The systemic phase is marked by fever, periorbital edema, muscle pain, heart inflammation, and brain inflammation. The larvae can also provoke severe eosinophilia, particularly when they move into the heart and central nervous system.

The man's symptoms fit the case, and several tests confirmed the parasitic infection. Of eight interviewed family members present for the bear-meat meal, six people had illnesses matching trichinellosis (ranging in age from 12 to 62), and three of them were hospitalized, including the 12-year-old. Four of the six sickened people had eaten the bear meat, while two only ate vegetables that were cooked alongside the meat and cross-contaminated. Experts at the CDC obtained leftover frozen samples of the bear meat, which revealed moving larvae. Testing identified the worm as Trichinella nativa, a species that is resistant to freezing.
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Re: [Health] The Infectious Diseases Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Kraken wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 9:46 pm Does that imply that there could be something to the raw milk as vaccine idea? I mean, “cow” is right there in “vaccine.” If the virus in cow's milk infects mice, could it produce antibodies in humans? Hypothetically, I mean. I know there’s zero science behind the idea.
Above and beyond whether or not this would be a good idea (it's not), we're flirting with disaster right now. Remember, this is *avian flu* - primarily spread between birds. And then sometimes it spreads from birds to other animals (including mammals). We're apparently at the point where it's now spreading from mammals to humans (and yes, I know humans are mammals) and so the final stage is when it's spreading from human to human. To be clear, that is when the bad stuff potentially starts to happen - human to human spread.

Doing anything (like chugging raw milk) that encourages the virus to "experiment" (i.e. swap genetic information) and figure out a potentially way to skip the birds and other mammals and just start jumping human to human is incredibly stupid.

Which is why we're apparently going to do it.
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