Elite: Dangerous

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:36 pm

Alefroth wrote:Something I didn't know at first, but found useful once I did, was that you can actively use the discovery scanner. It's on a hardpoint and can be assigned to a fire button.

Another potential idea is to sell the scanner and use that spot for another 4 tons of cargo. That greatly expands the bulletin board missions available to the Sidewinder. You can always sell the extra cargo bay and replace the scanner if you want to.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 5:27 pm

gbasden wrote:
Alefroth wrote:Something I didn't know at first, but found useful once I did, was that you can actively use the discovery scanner. It's on a hardpoint and can be assigned to a fire button.
Another potential idea is to sell the scanner and use that spot for another 4 tons of cargo. That greatly expands the bulletin board missions available to the Sidewinder. You can always sell the extra cargo bay and replace the scanner if you want to.

That's probably better initially, since you have to go 20ly away to sell any discovery info, and it usually only amounts to hundreds of credits.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 8:55 pm

Cant play. It errors. Tells me XIMPUT1_3.dll is missing. Google tells me that is part of DirectX....which my PC says is installed...DX11. So at an impass. Win7 user and I cant figure out how to simply download the latest DX version since it seems to be part of Windows update.

Grabbbed it by itself online..wtf is with DX anyways?? Ok that brings me to winrar..I lost it and now its not in since reinstalling the SO..sigh.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:36 pm

Doing the tutorials again. One the first combat one against a shieldless ship it took real time of 23 minutes for me to hit and kill it. i kept swinging wildly past it and would only get a hit sometimes. A lot of the time I'd be jus ta hair off and have my stick waaaay over and it would not get onto target then all of a sudden Id roll WAAAay past him. I could keep on him and keep him in front of me but could not keep the crosshairs on him.

Im still trying to get used to this stick and roll instead of twist rolling. I may not be able to do it. That would ruin an otherwise great game I see in front of me. I want to play so bad. I dread having to fight the guy with shields...or two of the enemies. Hope I can p[ass these tutorials. But man Im tired after that battle. Seriously in my arms and neck Im give out.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:43 pm

Ok battle with the 2 shielded ships so far......flipping battle over and over. I speed up...slow down...and simply loop loop loop. I have one in front of me and shoot him till shields drop then by then he zooms over me even though Ive slowed and am looping up....by the time I loop over he is again looped and behind me. I hardly see them as Im looping around. They loop faster. If I slow too much I loop slower...if I speed up I loop slower...seems to be a sweet spot in the middle of the throttle but even then Im slower than them.

EDIT: Got them both in 15 sec by diving instead of climbing then throttle to zero and sat still and finally got missile locks.

Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:50 pm

I skipped the combat tutorials and "learned on the job". The docking one is more important, and unfortunately not up to the task of really teaching you how to dock. So I learned that on the job as well. Ended up wiping my first few saves and starting over, but that's no big deal.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:37 am

Ya I gave up and stepped away before breaking something. I just cannot aim.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:57 am

Between my Logitech joystick and VoiceAttack I'm getting to be a pretty damn good combat pilot. I've got it so that once I interdict a target I never have to remove my hands from the joystick and throttle, using voice commands to deploy hardpoints, switch power and deploy chaff, heat sinks and shield cells (and take screenshots). By the time my opponent has time to say something clever I've already gotten in the first strike and am going for the kill.

Knocked down my first Imperial Cruiser this evening. Also have taken Eagles, Vipers, Adders, Haulers and Cobras. I think I'm ready to deal with a Mostly Harmless Anaconda... maybe

I'm getting a bit burned out however. I've done the various other types of tasks but found them boring. Space combat is fun for awhile, but honestly the AI doesn't seem ready to deal with my Viper equipped with shields and lots of defensive measures. I'm not making a lot of money this way, but it will do for now.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:00 am

Daehawk wrote:Im still trying to get used to this stick and roll instead of twist rolling. I may not be able to do it. That would ruin an otherwise great game I see in front of me. I want to play so bad. I dread having to fight the guy with shields...or two of the enemies. Hope I can p[ass these tutorials. But man Im tired after that battle. Seriously in my arms and neck Im give out.

Why not just switch the roll and yaw? I was thrown off by the limited yaw when I first played the game but once I realized I was flying a plane in space it made sense. But I see plenty of people on other forums who say the first thing you should do when you get the game is switch the yaw/roll joystick assignments. Whatever floats your space boat.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:18 am

I would but the devs seriously limited the turn speed unless you roll turn. It just creeps in turn if you dont use it the way they want. Maybe I can find a way to fix that too.

I think Ill stop the tutorials like suggested. The yare simply combat. Wont help me a bit with docking, communication, using the map or anything. And I cant print a manual because I reinstalled my OS the other day and my printer is not set up....and I cant set it up till tomorrow when a cables. Sucks to have a wireless printer that requires a cable to set up wireless lol.

So without a manual I dont know how to do anything. Guess I can peek at it online if I can.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:04 am

Im with Hitler on this.

Give me the option to change it...let those fanboys on their forum keep it the way it is if they like it.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:41 am

Daehawk wrote:Im with Hitler on this.

Give me the option to change it...let those fanboys on their forum keep it the way it is if they like it.

How about you go play another game instead? You were warned long before you started playing this game that it's designed to control like WW2 planes, with roll and pitch instead of yaw. Yet you persisted, and now you dare call people fanboys for not turning the game into yet another space sim where you play a mobile turret?

You don't need this game, and this game doesn't need you. Go play something else while you wait for Star Citizen, which as far as I know offers what you want.

And don't go crying "I just want more options". You want the entire flight mechanic on which the game is built upon to be changed to accommodate your lack of ability to listen to what people told you before you bought it, destroying all semblance of game balance in the process. It's not going to happen no matter how much you whine about it, and that doesn't make those you disagree with fanboys. Not in the slightest. It does say quite a bit about you though.

Maybe I can find a way to fix that too.

Here's a fix: Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:54 am

Wow aren't you a bitch again today. Im not asking they kill God. I just want an adjustable slider for YAW...ya know what all games for 30 years have done? If you like it then you keep it and shut up. But to those like me who cant play with controls like this it could be a simple option. I didn't read this thread. Maybe you live in it. And this is not an aircraft game its a space game where YAW is important. Turreting? Who cares. They are just targets. This game is nowhere near a space sim in that regard. You want that go play I-War 1.

I dont want SC thanks. Its a rip off.

And if they wont add that then Im FAR from being alone in hating it. I would love my money back but I dont think they will comply. Im looking into disputing it now. I would love this game cept for that one stupid dev idea. So many hate it. And fuck you..we can complain if we like. I paid $50 for it without knowing the YAW was this way until I already had it. I expected it to be playable like any other game....configurable.

So you enjoy your play style. I hate it and Ill try to see it fixed.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:22 am

Daehawk wrote:I didn't read this thread.

And that's the problem here, isn't it? You never read threads around here. You just post. People take the time to answer your questions, but you don't read the answers, no matter what thread it is. I specifically pointed out, in a reply to you, the yaw issue before you even started playing Elite: Dangerous. In this very thread!

You expect the world to revolve around your wishes while not even taking the time dignify helpful replies with even reading them, and then feign anger when people get annoyed at you? Well, tough luck. You had it coming.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:26 am

I have no idea what you've posted for I have stopped reading your posts. If the board had an /ignore feature I would find it quiet handy as Im sure you would as well.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:00 am

Daehawk wrote:I have no idea what you've posted for I have stopped reading your posts. If the board had an /ignore feature I would find it quiet handy as Im sure you would as well.

I don't want to ignore you. I'd rather you stopped ignoring everyone else.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:07 am

I think having the roll rate be faster than the yaw rate makes the combat a little more interesting. Now if you are on someone's six o' clock you have to worry about trying to stay in the enemy's "roll plane" and if you are the defender all you have to do is roll quickly and pitch up or down. It will make it easier to shake off attackers, especially if they are human-controlled, and not AI. I think it also makes the space combat look "cooler". Imagine if the vehicles in Star Wars could yaw just as quickly as they could roll and pitch? We'd never see X-wings and Tie fighters rolling around. But that's just me.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:00 am

It does look nice but is totally un fun and stressful to the extreme.

Tie fighter wasn't like this and its one if the best space fighters out there. Same for Freespace 1 and 2. Also Wing Commander....Xwing....Alliance...any and all..cept this one.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:51 am

Considering you're on a tight budget wouldn't it make sense to read up on a game before diving in? I don't see any reason why they should refund you money because you don't like the design.

I'm still on the fence about this game myself just because I'm not sure if there's enough content in the game yet. So.. I'm going to wait and read about it and if I buy it and don't like it, it will be my own fault.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:23 am

Daehawk wrote:It does look nice but is totally un fun and stressful to the extreme.

Tie fighter wasn't like this and its one if the best space fighters out there. Same for Freespace 1 and 2. Also Wing Commander....Xwing....Alliance...any and all..cept this one.

You've played WW2 airplane sims right? Does it help if you "pretend" the combat is WW2 airplane combat at night?

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:41 pm

No because in WW2 sims I have a sense of speed and movement I dont get in space.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:53 pm

Octavious wrote:Considering you're on a tight budget

Can't we conclude this is a fallacy at this point?

Octavious wrote:I'm still on the fence about this game myself just because I'm not sure if there's enough content in the game yet. So.. I'm going to wait and read about it and if I buy it and don't like it, it will be my own fault.

I'd suggest holding off for a while. A LOT of the game boils down to warping to a system, supercruise to the station vicinity, take 30 seconds to dock at a station, do some stuff from the station menu, then warp to another station. I'm not saying I don't like it, but I could see it wearing thin after a while. I'm saving up for a detailed surface scanner at the moment which should provide a little more depth for exploration, but even that looks like it will get repetitive quickly.

edit: I left out the most interesting part, the supercruise. This where you can zip around the system at trans light speed and see the great looking stars and planets, or be tempted to investigate unidentified signal sources that appear. They can turn out to be Feds doing scans, pirates, or contacts that will offer alternate outcomes to your missions.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:18 pm

Alefroth wrote:I'm not saying I don't like it, but I could see it wearing thin after a while.

I concur with this. It's already a bit thin for me. I do fire it up every few nights and knock down some "Wanted" types. Otherwise, having done all the different game modes (trading, mining, FedEx guy, etc) I'm a bit bored with it. I'm waiting for some more depth to be added.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:51 pm

I don't necessarily agree. I think the combat is very well done and the events that happen in the world are interesting as well. Being able to affect whether or not a planet breaks away from a major power is pretty fun, for me. I've easily gotten 30 hours out of it so far. Even if they never add another piece of content, I'm happy with the value for money, and they will add more content.

Daehawk's complaint aside, I think this feels like virtually every other space sim I've played. An X-Wing can't simply rotate on its horizontal axis, and neither can the ships in this game. The ships do feel *very* different from each other though, from incredibly nimble fighters to large, lumbering freighters. Flight Assist makes the ships "behave" like airplanes in an atmosphere, but it can be disabled to be able to boost in one direction and then pivot to face backwards and fire at your pursuer. Being able to thrust up, down, left or right also means you can strafe to a certain degree.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:39 pm

Daehawk wrote:It does look nice but is totally un fun and stressful to the extreme.

Tie fighter wasn't like this and its one if the best space fighters out there. Same for Freespace 1 and 2. Also Wing Commander....Xwing....Alliance...any and all..cept this one.

I'm going to have to go back and check some of these out (I won't) because I feel like I fly in Elite exactly the same way I flew in all of these.

Are you saying that when you would follow a target you turned flat with yaw only? I don't even know how you would do that except with maybe full Newtonian physics.

All those sims yawed when you moved the stick left / right?

That doesn't seem right.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:55 pm

Redfive wrote:
That doesn't seem right.

Right. I've played *all* of those, because I love space games. My learning curve in this game was limited to figuring out which buttons did what. Flying the ships felt totally normal from the get go. I would imagine that wouldn't be the case if flying in this game was any different from the others. But I will have to go back and reload some just to make sure I'm not delusional.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:13 am

X-Wing yawed when you moved L/R. There was a button that you could press that would switch it to roll. I made heavy use of it, especially with the Wotan Weave, known to earthlings as a barrel roll.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:35 am

Isgrimnur wrote:X-Wing yawed when you moved L/R. There was a button that you could press that would switch it to roll. I made heavy use of it, especially with the Wotan Weave, known to earthlings as a barrel roll.

Yes, that's right I remember now. For me it was the top thumb button.

Even so I feel like I still flew in generally the same way I do in Elite.

Wotan Weave was mandatory when flying away from a star destroyer when you got too close.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:51 am

Alternatively one could argue that Elite's flight modeling is just taking g-forces and engineering into account:

The human body can best cope with g-forces in the laying down position. Certainly in the future there may be some way to dampen the g-forces, otherwise rolling prior to turning is still the best way to deal with the g-forces of turning. Also, from an engineering perspective, why take up precious room and put in more thrusters to accommodate yaw controls, when you could accomplish the same thing with roll and pitch. You would still want some control of yaw, but it could be given using smaller thrusters.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:17 am

Its a game.

Stuie · Post by **Stuie** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:08 am

Daehawk wrote:Its a game.

Any game needs to play by a set of rules though. Even if you feel the rules are arbitrary, that doesn't preclude you from having to adhere to the rules in order to play the game. Asking to change the flight model is like asking for the ability to go backward or forward at will in Monopoly. It would change the basic underpinings of the game.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:11 am

If I remember right, TIE Fighter left/right on the joystick wasn't pure yaw. I think it was yaw with a touch of roll. The modifier would switch it to pure roll.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:05 pm

Its not really changing the flight model. The ability is already in there...just needs to be faster.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:13 pm

Daehawk wrote:Its not really changing the flight model. The ability is already in there...just needs to be faster.

That is changing the flight model.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:22 pm

Daehawk wrote:Its not really changing the flight model. The ability is already in there...just needs to be faster.

Imagine a flight sim for regular planes that has it so you never have to roll. All the planes just have their wings stay parallel to the earth and you yaw spin for turns. It wouldn't feel right at all, in real planes you turn by rolling and then pulling up, same as they want you to do in Elite.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:06 pm

Ok so its just the way you guys like it and enjoy it. What about us that dont like it and cant enjoy it? Would it hurt anyone to allow us to change our setting? No. Its already been stated that turreting is a disadvantage. So let us disadvantage ourselves. Its like those that vote against alcohol in stores or served on Sunday. Why do you do that. Just dont vote...dont go buy it. Allow those that want to to do that.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:12 pm

Daehawk wrote:What about us that dont like it and cant enjoy it? ...dont go buy it.

I don't think I've ever seen someone argue so effectively against themselves.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Daehawk wrote:Would it hurt anyone to allow us to change our setting? No.

Well...not. As stated, it would change the flight model which would then impact how combat works.

Its like those that vote against alcohol in stores or served on Sunday. Why do you do that. Just dont vote...dont go buy it. Allow those that want to to do that.

I'm pretty sure a number of people have already indicated just that. It seems to me you're complaining about buying a Lamborghini and then not being able to take the top off and go off-roading.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:52 pm

This is a "fly planes in space" game. They want dogfighting maneuvers to play out like WWII or Star Wars space combat, with some Battlestar Galactica freedom thrown in. Changing the yaw would make the flying totally different, and it would no longer be planes in space flying.

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:06 pm

Daehawk wrote:Ok so its just the way you guys like it and enjoy it. What about us that dont like it and cant enjoy it? Would it hurt anyone to allow us to change our setting? No. Its already been stated that turreting is a disadvantage. So let us disadvantage ourselves. Its like those that vote against alcohol in stores or served on Sunday. Why do you do that. Just dont vote...dont go buy it. Allow those that want to to do that.

I don't think people have been arguing that "turreting is a disadvantage". I think they've been arguing that turreting (letting you yaw as fast as you can roll) makes this game no different from all the other space sim games.