[AMC] Better Call Saul

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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Goddamn this show is good. I keep trying to decide if it's better than Breaking Bad. It just might be.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Kraken »

As a prequel, it has the burden of prior knowledge. We know that particular characters will survive, so putting them in jeopardy lacks tension -- except insofar as it shapes who we know they will become. The writers are handling that masterfully. Prime example being that we know Jimmy and Kim aren't destined to be a happy couple in BB. We don't know why that is (or do we?), but it's going to complete the transformation of Jimmy into Saul.

And as a prequel, it also has the advantage of starting with established characters that it can flesh out, and the writers are taking maximum advantage of that.

I"d have to watch BB again to say which show I think is better. BCS is amazingly good, but then so was BB.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

They managed to do an amazing job at fleshing out existing characters without being ridiculous. I just watched an old clip where Mike went to the restaurant to negotiate with Hector about getting Tuco off the gun charge. When he enters the restaurant Nacho frisks Mike and tells Hector "He isn't wearing a wire, but he has a gun." Hector says, 'I don't care about the gun."

That line just shows how much of a badass Hector was. His character has been played to perfection by Mark Margolis. He's just such a despicable person that exude pure evil. But unlike most portrayals of someone who is that evil, it's not over the top in the slightest.

That's one of the strong suits of this show. They took existing characters and actually made them better. I hate to bring up Star Wars again, but look at Solo. They took existing characters and did absolutely nothing with them. Lando went from being my favorite Star Wars character to someone I couldn't stand in that movie. In BCS the characters are so well thought out that I have groaned at a callback exactly zero times.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

I actually tuned out of Breaking Bad for a while and picked it back up for the final season. I think it was about the time:
Spoiler:
Jesse's girlfriend OD'd.
But BCS has me glued to the screen for each episode.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by telcta »

I don’t want Saul to end. I’m savoring every minute of the remaining episodes. I have to watch it the night it’s on to not be spoiled by anything but I do buffer the show so I can skip the commercials and keep that sweet tension throughout the episode.

Also whenever I’m out and I hear the name Hector, I say to myself…
Spoiler:
“Last chance to look at me, Hector.”
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by naednek »

wow the jump between when (don't think it's a real spoiler as it's pretty known it happens, but just in case)
Spoiler:
Kim leaves Saul, and to the future was a bit jarring. Even though we knew it was going to happen.
It just happened, with no real transition. It felt final and sad and abrupt
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

naednek wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:47 pm wow the jump between when (don't think it's a real spoiler as it's pretty known it happens, but just in case)
Spoiler:
Kim leaves Saul, and to the future was a bit jarring. Even though we knew it was going to happen.
It just happened, with no real transition. It felt final and sad and abrupt
Agreed, but...
Spoiler:
I think it was over the moment Saul told Kim to go kill Gus.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Jaymann wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:22 am
naednek wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:47 pm wow the jump between when (don't think it's a real spoiler as it's pretty known it happens, but just in case)
Spoiler:
Kim leaves Saul, and to the future was a bit jarring. Even though we knew it was going to happen.
It just happened, with no real transition. It felt final and sad and abrupt
Agreed, but...
Spoiler:
I think it was over the moment Saul told Kim to go kill Gus.
Spoiler:
Why is that? Why it was over when he tried to sacrifice himself to save Kim?
Last edited by Victoria Raverna on Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

Spoiler:
In my mind, I though Saul was telling Kim to make a run for it. I thought that was one of the few times he was actually acting selflessly. But I’m probably wrong.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

Spoiler:
Kim was horrified to be sent on that grisly mission. I don't think she contemplated running as Lalo would kill Saul.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Kim and Saul
Spoiler:
I think Saul believed that Lalo was going to kill both of them as soon as the other returned with proof, so Kim's only chance at living was to be the one who got to leave their place.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

Also...
Spoiler:
Lalo was using Kim as a cat's paw to see Gus's response. Though in the unlikely event she was successful, I'm sure Lalo would be fine with that. I did think having Gus rush to his underground lab was a bit contrived.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Spoiler:
Kim was never supposed to kill Gus. Lalo wanted to kill Gus himself.
Lalo knew that she would not be able to get near Gus and he wasn't going to simply answer the door. He was trying to provoke a reaction from Gus. I still don't know how he knew Gus would go to the lab.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Kraken »

I get why
Spoiler:
Kim left Jimmy,
but not
Spoiler:
why she gave up her law license. Not just her livelihood (which is kinda necessary), but also her pro bono efforts to help people.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Daveman »

Lalo and Gus...
Spoiler:
I think it was established in that odd moment when Gus has his meeting with the German company and then starts to panic that the team of German engineers building his lab were his weak link. His lab is his most prized possession, the thing he's hung his future on. When he realizes that Lalo might still be alive he assumes the worst... that Lalo knows Gus is planning something big and is out not just to kill him, but to uncover his secret.

Gus recognizes Kim is a distraction but from what? The thing he values the most. Gus knows that, Lalo knows that Gus knows he knows, etc. Gus was just one half-step ahead with his surprise in the lab.
Kim...
Spoiler:
I think that deep down, despite enjoying her scams with Jimmy, she considers the law as sacred, not unlike Chuck. Last episode was just her breaking point.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Daveman wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:13 am
Kim...
Spoiler:
I think that deep down, despite enjoying her scams with Jimmy, she considers the law as sacred, not unlike Chuck. Last episode was just her breaking point.
Spoiler:
Do you mean that she feels she isn't worthy of practicing law? Interesting.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Daveman »

McNutt wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:40 am
Daveman wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:13 am
Kim...
Spoiler:
I think that deep down, despite enjoying her scams with Jimmy, she considers the law as sacred, not unlike Chuck. Last episode was just her breaking point.
Spoiler:
Do you mean that she feels she isn't worthy of practicing law? Interesting.
Spoiler:
I dont know why else she'd just quit the way she did.
As was said, she was in a position to do a lot of good to make up for her games with Jimmy.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Spoiler:
Keep in mind that Kim has had some life-changing events very recently. A few days earlier she had prepared herself to murder a stranger. She had just returned from Howard's funeral. Remember, Howard died because:
a) He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was shot by a criminal associate of Jimmy's.
b) He was only there because Kim and Jimmy had completely broken him.
Kim is realizing, especially after the funeral, that her love for scamming people led to the death of a really good man and that to keep her name clear she's had to convince the people that Howard left behind that his legacy will be a prostitute-chasing drug addict.

I'm guessing this internal struggle, dealing with her love of "the game" and the price it inflicts on others, has shown Kim that she is a terrible person and no amount of pro bono work is going to wash that blood off her hands. Maybe getting away from Jimmy will help. Maybe getting away from the law will put that out of her mind. Or maybe she's just having a crazy reaction to the events and isn't thinking clearly.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by naednek »

hepcat wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:04 am
Spoiler:
In my mind, I though Saul was telling Kim to make a run for it. I thought that was one of the few times he was actually acting selflessly. But I’m probably wrong.
That's how I took that scene
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

On Kim:
Spoiler:
She made some very bad choices along the way while under Jimmy's influence. After the Lalo incident I think she could also see where Jimmy was headed and decided No Mas.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Kraken »

Well, that was an episode. I had to read up to find out what it was calling back to, and even knowing the connection I'm perplexed why they spent one of their last four hours telling that story. It felt like a throwaway, unless it's laying groundwork for the finale.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

I vaguely remember:
Spoiler:
That Jeffie guy recognizing Saul, so it made some sense to keep him under wraps. Maybe he doesn't stay wrapped up.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Kraken »

Jaymann wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 pm I vaguely remember:
Spoiler:
That Jeffie guy recognizing Saul, so it made some sense to keep him under wraps. Maybe he doesn't stay wrapped up.
Spoiler:
The internet says he was a cab driver who knew Saul in the Breaking Bad days, but he was played by a different actor.

If Jeffy isn't a player in JImmy's ending, then this was a wasted episode.
To me, this hints that Jimmy won't live happily ever after at Cinnabun.

Also: Has anybody here ever had a cinnebun? Is it really the perfect blend of sugar and fat?
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Jaymann »

Kraken wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:56 am
Jaymann wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:42 pm I vaguely remember:
Spoiler:
That Jeffie guy recognizing Saul, so it made some sense to keep him under wraps. Maybe he doesn't stay wrapped up.
Spoiler:
The internet says he was a cab driver who knew Saul in the Breaking Bad days, but he was played by a different actor.

If Jeffy isn't a player in JImmy's ending, then this was a wasted episode.
To me, this hints that Jimmy won't live happily ever after at Cinnabun.

Also: Has anybody here ever had a cinnebun? Is it really the perfect blend of sugar and fat?
I have had one. It's a little over the top. I think Jim Gaffagan did a routine where you know you've hit rock bottom if you stop to get a Cinnibon when your flight arrives at the airport.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Kraken wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:52 pm Well, that was an episode. I had to read up to find out what it was calling back to, and even knowing the connection I'm perplexed why they spent one of their last four hours telling that story. It felt like a throwaway, unless it's laying groundwork for the finale.
That was my take. It just felt superfluous in light of so few remaining episodes.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
Then Kim defends him, gets him acquitted, and they live happily ever after. :clap:
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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McNutt wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
You missed the point. It wasn't for the haul, it was to set the other guy up for multiple felony charges if he rats out Saul. Mutually assured destruction, he called it. But I'm sure he enjoyed the game, too. It was pretty ingenious.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

Oh hell, you're right! I just finished it.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

There are some theories floating around out there as to who Carrol Burnett’s character really is. But they all sound a little off so far. They all seem to be based around some belief that Gene seemed too tight with her.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Covfefe!
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:53 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
You missed the point. It wasn't for the haul, it was to set the other guy up for multiple felony charges if he rats out Saul. Mutually assured destruction, he called it. But I'm sure he enjoyed the game, too. It was pretty ingenious.
I think i agree with this assessment of that episode.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

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hepcat wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:37 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:53 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
You missed the point. It wasn't for the haul, it was to set the other guy up for multiple felony charges if he rats out Saul. Mutually assured destruction, he called it. But I'm sure he enjoyed the game, too. It was pretty ingenious.
I think i agree with this assessment of that episode.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by Kraken »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:54 am
hepcat wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:37 am
Kraken wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 8:53 pm
McNutt wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 7:20 pm It goes to show how strong his need to be a part of a con is. He did a shitload of work over the course of weeks just for a small haul.

He's not going to stay out of trouble and I'm sure his identity will be discovered once he is inevitably arrested.
You missed the point. It wasn't for the haul, it was to set the other guy up for multiple felony charges if he rats out Saul. Mutually assured destruction, he called it. But I'm sure he enjoyed the game, too. It was pretty ingenious.
I think i agree with this assessment of that episode.
Blocked. Can you give the gist?
The most recent episode of the AMC Breaking Bad prequel was a stinker, no buts about it. While Bob Odenkirk did a fine job as ‘Gene’ in the current black and white timeline, just about everything else about this episode failed to deliver.

There were three big reasons for this.
Recasting Jeff Was A Mistake
...
The Distance Between Episodes Didn’t Help
...
The Entire Scam Was Kind Of Ridiculous
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

Yeah, the writer points out that the scheme was WILDLY elaborate, the recast actor was almost tonally the opposite of the original actor's interpretation, and by the time they aired this episode any sense of urgent menace from Jeff's potential threat was long dissipated.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by JCC »

The fact that they had to recast the actor was unfortunate. But, even a hit show has to abide by a schedule. The fact that Odenkirk also had a heart attack during the making of the final season may have made accommodating the original actor's schedule even more tricky.

I agree the scheme was a bit convoluted, but that also added to the fun of the episode. So, while I don't disagree with the criticisms from the Forbes article, (I had zero issues reading it, btw...) it really didn't mar my enjoyment of the episode.

I think the episode gap between him being recognized and this scam was the biggest flaw. That flaw was exacerbated by the change in actor.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by hepcat »

I enjoyed it as well, but I've come to expect much better from the show.

But hey, one stinker out of how many great episodes? They're still batting a near perfect game.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by stimpy »

hepcat wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 12:53 pm I enjoyed it as well, but I've come to expect much better from the show.
I'd be surprised if there isnt a payoff related to this episode.
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Re: [AMC] Better Call Saul

Post by McNutt »

I wouldn't call it a stinker. It seemed disjointed, but I was entertained.
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