SPACE - random thread about space stuff

[Zaxxon]

Wonderful summary of today's launch...

[jztemple2]

<scoff>

They can build 10 Super Heavy first stages in the time NASA builds a single SLS rocket. If the first five fail, but the next five succeed, which is a better outcome?

NASA has the better outcome, because there are no guarantees that the sixth one won't fail, or the seventh one, or the eighth one...

Since NASA's approach will never (for current rockets, at least, and therefore for the foreseeable future) yield a sufficient launch cadence to colonize anything, I disagree. If you're content with a launch per year, I can see how you'd disagree.

Hmm, I was referring to the development phase. When we get to colonizing something, certainly it will take a lot of rockets. And I've previously stated, somewhere, that I think the whole SLS/Artemis project is a huge boondoggle anyway. If you've got billionaires chomping at the bit to colonize places, let them have at it and save the taxpayer some dough.

Really, since Starship is going to be used to land on the moon, why not just quit spending money on SLS and just let SpaceX do the whole thing? Sheesh, SLS is pretty much just the Saturn V with solid boosters. All of which we throw away after each mission. What a waste.

By the way, I'm not content with a launch per year. Remember with Shuttle we pioneered the reusable spacecraft idea. And also we never got to the 168 hour turnaround, pie in the sky that was originally pitched, we did get in a number of launches each year. If Starship can do the same thing, more power to them. Hell, give them the VAB if they want it, although I think the high bays aren't tall enough

[raydude]

DART mission on the cover of Nature magazine. Note - the Dimorphos surface on the cover is based on actual data from the spacecraft. It's real imagery laid on top of 3D topographic data.

[Zaxxon]

Awesome!

[Isgrimnur]

And this is why you don't park in the blast zone.

[Kraken]

Really, since Starship is going to be used to land on the moon, why not just quit spending money on SLS and just let SpaceX do the whole thing? Sheesh, SLS is pretty much just the Saturn V with solid boosters. All of which we throw away after each mission. What a waste.

SpaceX doesn't have contractors in all 50 states for Congress to feed. If Starship reaches its potential, I will be surprised if more than 3-4 more SLS-powered missions ever launch.

'Course, if Starship never achieves its promise, we'll be glad NASA stuck with the tried and true Big Dumb Booster.

[jztemple2]

Just wondering, has anyone heard if SpaceX is going to try any salvaging of the super heavy booster and Starship?

[jztemple2]

And this is why you don't park in the blast zone.

More on this from an article on The Drive, Watch SpaceX Starship Annihilate a Dodge Caravan With Flying Debris

On Thursday, Elon Musk's SpaceX launched the most powerful rocket ever built: Starship. In traditional SpaceX fashion, the inaugural flight of Starship ended with a boom, or "rapid unscheduled disassembly," as it's more lightly referred to.

Despite the destruction in the air, there was also quite the show on the ground at Starbase. The launchpad was absolutely destroyed by Starship's powerful Super Heavy rocket. So much thrust was generated from the rocket's engines that the concrete pad was pretty much obliterated, sending chunks of rubble flying more than a quarter mile away and destroying a Dodge Caravan in the process.

In almost perfect synchrony, two major chunks of debris collide with the minivan. One particularly pesky rock contacts the hatch, caving in the D-Pillar. As soon as the impact happens, the minivan lurches forward due to the force of the collision. The rear-most windows are blown out, along with at least one of the taillights, and the liftgate is turned into nothing more than twisted metal.

A second less obvious chunk isn't seen impacting the van, but it is seen exiting through the front bumper along with an explosion of fluid (presumably coolant from the radiator). By the end of the video, a pool of liquid has amassed under the front of the car.

Several smaller pieces of debris make contact with the van during the launch. A few pieces even hit the expensive-looking gear mounted to the top of the van and nearby cameras set up to film the launch.

[jztemple2]

More on the damage to the launch pad area. Those cylindrical tanks look like they took a beating.

And thinking about this, the Starship launch site on Launch Complex 39A here at the Cape is pretty much complete. I wonder how much redesign they are going to have to do

[Kraken]

More on this from an article on The Drive, Watch SpaceX Starship Annihilate a Dodge Caravan With Flying Debris

Eh, it'll buff out. Honestly, I'd like to hear the owner explain it to their insurance agent.

[jztemple2]

'Look what I found!' SpaceX urges finders to report debris from Starship test flight

Hours after the first test flight of SpaceX's Starship ended with the spacecraft and its Super Heavy booster tumbling until it was commanded to explode, possible debris from the colossal rocket began to wash up on the shores surrounding the company's Starbase launch facility in Boca Chica, Texas.

Local county officials were quick to order temporary road and beach closures to aid in "anomaly cleanup efforts," but given that the vehicle was well over the Gulf of Mexico and reached an altitude of approximately 25 miles (40 kilometers) before it broke apart on Thursday (April 20), the precautions only extended to a relatively small area of where fragments of the world's tallest and most powerful rocket could end up.

If a Raptor engine ends up in my backyard my wife will probably have Christmas lights on it before anyone notices

[jztemple2]

New POV Footage Shows Dodge Caravan’s Final Moments Before SpaceX Starship Explodes

Grand Caravan!

[jztemple2]

ULA's Vulcan rocket launch debut delayed by fireball during testing

[Daehawk]

In the olden days these explosions or things, especially giant rockets, were viewed more as a loss and setback. Today they are cheered and applauded. Strange world we live in.

[jztemple2]

Unusual launch from SpaceX tomorrow, a Falcon Heavy from which no stages will be recovered as it is a direct to geosynchronous orbit launch with a very heavy payload: ViaSat-3 Americas moved to Thursday for expendable Falcon Heavy launch

The Falcon Heavy for this mission — consisting of core B1068, booster B1052, and booster B1053 — will be expended due to the need for all available performance. This results from needing to insert the ViaSat-3 Americas satellite directly into geostationary orbit.

The Falcon Heavy, after firing its 27 Merlin engines with a total of 22.82 meganewtons of thrust, will launch due east into a trajectory typical for geostationary satellite launches. The second stage will be flying an extended mission and will have a band of gray thermal insulation to keep the stage’s propellant at its proper temperature.

A direct geostationary orbit insertion requires the upper stage to perform multiple maneuvers, including the circularization burn at apogee, before releasing the satellite to conduct its mission at an altitude of 35,786 kilometers above Earth. Since the satellite itself does not need to expend fuel on the circularization burn, the fuel saved can extend the spacecraft’s useful life.

Due to the direct geostationary orbit insertion, Falcon Heavy’s boosters will be expended by falling into the Atlantic Ocean after separation. The core stage will be expended in a similar manner. None of the booster elements contain recovery hardware such as titanium grid fins, landing legs, and RCS thrusters.

Boosters B1052 and B1053 have served as Falcon Heavy boosters on previous flights, while B1052 also served as a Falcon 9 first-stage booster for five launches. B1052 and B1053 flew as side boosters on the Arabsat-6A and STP-2 flights in 2019, making successful dual return to launch site landings at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.

[Max Peck]

New POV Footage Shows Dodge Caravan’s Final Moments Before SpaceX Starship Explodes

Grand Caravan!

That headline seems misleading, unless I'm badly misinformed. The damage on the ground was from the launch itself, not the RUD after launch, wasn't it?

[Unagi]

The launch was before the SpaceX Starship Exploded. Technically.

The banner's sub-title is "SpaceX’s last launch did some serious damage to this Dodge Caravan."

I'm curious if NASA launches have as much concrete tossed around.

[jztemple2]

I'm curious if NASA launches have as much concrete tossed around.

Not usually because the major launch pads use flame trenches to direct the exhaust flow. The trenches are lined with materials like refractory bricks (I actually have one as a souvenir from Pad A at Launch Complex 39) and steel, but the most effective part is that the force of the exhaust is channeled through a curve (or curves) so as to avoid any direct impingement. The launch mount at Boca Chica is mounted on Fondag which is a high resistance concrete. That helps, but the force of the exhaust was still directed straight at it and that proved to be too much. I'm just wondering if this water cooled steel plate that is going to be used instead will be that much better.

[Unagi]

Wouldn't there be some serious risk to the launch vehicle itself if the pad below it was perhaps breaking up as it tried to push away? Or is the force just overwhelmingly away from the spacecraft at that point, and it would be the last thing hit... I'm just picturing ricocheting pieces of concrete.

[Zaxxon]

Wouldn't there be some serious risk to the launch vehicle itself if the pad below it was perhaps breaking up as it tried to push away? Or is the force just overwhelmingly away from the spacecraft at that point, and it would be the last thing hit... I'm just picturing ricocheting pieces of concrete.

One of the theories I've seen, esp since this vehicle takes longer than most rockets to leave the pad, is that the concrete damage may have been a cause of some of the engine issues they had. Can't have been great to have all that crap flying around.

[Kraken]

Why is Musk so dead-set against a flame trench, anyway? I know he didn't think they needed one before this launch, but now it's obvious that they have a big problem with a well-known solution.

[jztemple2]

Uh-oh...
SpaceX Starship launch under FAA investigation after raining potentially hazardous debris on homes and beaches

SpaceX's Starship has been grounded by the U.S. government following claims that the rocket's explosive first launch spread plumes of potentially hazardous debris over homes and the habitats of endangered animals.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) — the U.S. civil aviation regulator — has stopped SpaceX from conducting any further launches until it has concluded a "mishap investigation" into Starship's April 20 test launch. The massive rocket’s dramatic flight began by punching a crater into the concrete beneath the launchpad and ended when the giant rocket exploded in mid-air around 4 minutes later.

"The FAA will oversee the mishap investigation of the Starship/Super Heavy test mission," FAA officials wrote in a statement on April 20. "A return to flight of the Starship/Super Heavy vehicle is based on the FAA determining that any system, process, or procedure related to the mishap does not affect public safety. This is standard practice for all mishap investigations."

Dust and debris from the test reportedly rained down on residents in Port Isabel, Texas — a town roughly 6 miles (10 kilometers) from the launchpad — and across Boca Chica's beaches, which are nesting grounds for endangered animals, including birds and sea turtles.

Dave Cortez, a chapter director for the Sierra Club environmental advocacy group, said that Port Isabel residents reported broken windows in their businesses and ash-like particles covering their homes and schools.

[Unagi]

it's obvious that they have a big problem with a well-known solution.

I should have just started with that.

[Kraken]

V'ger gets a life extension

At 12 billion miles (20 billion kilometers) from Earth, Voyager 2 is so far that it takes more than 22 hours for NASA’s signals to reach the probe. With its power gradually diminishing, mission planners thought they might have to shut down one of its five scientific instruments next year, but a newly implemented plan has resulted in a welcomed delay.

A recent adjustment, in which the probe redirects a tiny amount of power meant for an onboard safety system, means all five scientific instruments aboard Voyager 2 can stay active until 2026, according to a NASA Jet Propulsion Lab press release. There’s a modicum of risk involved, as the affected system protects Voyager 2 from voltage irregularities, but NASA says the probe can now keep its science instruments turned on for a while longer.

Data bonus aside, I would love to see Voyager 2 live to age 50 or until it reaches 1 light day away.

[pr0ner]

Why is Musk so dead-set against a flame trench, anyway? I know he didn't think they needed one before this launch, but now it's obvious that they have a big problem with a well-known solution.

Because he thinks he's smarter than everyone else and overruled his engineers telling him he needed one?

[pr0ner]

Also:

[jztemple2]

With the FAA involved again, SpaceX could be facing months of challenges and delays to the next Starship launch. And here at the Cape we have this nice launch pad just waiting for him...

[jztemple2]

Meanwhile, on the west coast, SpaceX SLC-6 takeover to mark a new chapter for a famous pad. SpaceX is currently using Space Launch Complex 4E at Vandenberg.

One of the most iconic launch sites in the world, Vandenberg Space Force Base’s Space Launch Complex 6 (SLC-6), will be leased by SpaceX. Confirmation came after Col. Rob Long, Space Launch Delta 30 (SLD 30) commander, signed a statement supporting SpaceX’s lease to launch Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy missions from the launch site.

SLC-6 was under the stewardship of United Launch Alliance (ULA) for the launch of its west coast Delta rockets before vacating the site after its final Delta IV Heavy launch in Sept. 2022. The launch site was also famously set to become the west coast launch site for the Space Shuttle before plans were canceled in the mid-80s. Prior to ULA’s acquisition of the launch site, though, SLC-6’s history was one of cancellations.

Some great photos and a good history of the site are in the article. I was there twice in 1986, the second time on TDY working on software for the launch of the Blue Shuttle as we called it.

[Zaxxon]

With the FAA involved again, SpaceX could be facing months of challenges and delays to the next Starship launch. And here at the Cape we have this nice launch pad just waiting for him...

I think they've got months of issues ahead of them even before the FAA.

[Montag]

The flame trench is a problem for Boca Chica because the water table is very shallow. One video showed that water was starting to backfill the launch crater. There is just not much depth to put the curve in for the deflector.

[Isgrimnur]

If only they knew how to move things upward.

[jztemple2]

If only they knew how to move things upward.

We've being doing that at the Cape for over a half century. The pads at LC-39 are pretty amazing that way.

[Unagi]

Looks like that launch was a real mess, with a bit of an explosion of its own (more so than what we've become accustomed to.)

Massive, exploded SpaceX rocket devastated a town and a wildlife reserve — and locals are furious

...the extreme damage caused by this one could have likely been prevented with a flame diverter, a structure that fits below a rocket launchpad that channels a rocket's extreme heat and exhaust in a controlled way. The lack of a flame diverter scorched the landscape and plant life near the rocket pad, as post-launch pictures reveal.

"A billionaire is closing our beach to use the land to test his experimental technology putting the lives of locals at risk while destroying acres of a wildlife reserve."

...

The explosion essentially obliterated the launch pad, carving a massive crater and sending chunks of concrete, sheets of stainless steel and other debris flying into the ocean on Boca Chica Beach. A Dodge Caravan was smashed with wreckage, which the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reported was scattered over 385 acres, causing a fire that burned 3.5 acres on Boca Chica State Park land.

Clouds of ash and particulates rained down on residents of Port Isabel, about six miles away, settling onto homes, cars, and streets, breaking several windows. It's not clear if the particulate matter is dangerous to breathe or touch, or if it will pollute the soil. An FAA environmental assessment of the spacecraft notes that some stages of the rocket used kerosene as fuel, which is toxic to breathe; the assessment also notes over 100 gallons of hydraulic fluid in the rocket, which is often hazardous.

Although I've also read that they haven't found any debris on the reserve, so I am not sure what the 'destroyed acres of wildlife reserve' would refer to.

[jztemple2]

I found the story lost credibly with the "massive crater" phrase and the citing of a 3.5 acre grass fire as significant. But the dusting of the town was a bad thing, which really makes one wonder what kind of environmental study was done that OK'ed the launching of such a massive rocket so near a populated location.

[Zaxxon]

really makes one wonder what kind of environmental study was done that OK'ed the launching of such a massive rocket so near a populated location.

Maybe one that assumed SpaceX wouldn't YOLO the launch pad...

[Zaxxon]

[jztemple2]

Reminder, we have a Falcon Heavy launch from the Cape tonight at 7:29pm. Since it is such a heavy payload they will not be recovering any of the three boosters, don't know about the fairings.

[jztemple2]

Reminder, we have a Falcon Heavy launch from the Cape tonight at 7:29pm. Since it is such a heavy payload they will not be recovering any of the three boosters, don't know about the fairings.

Oops, they are now going towards the end of the window:

SpaceX has confirmed the Falcon Heavy launch team is targeting the end of tonight's launch window at 8:26 p.m. EDT (0026 UTC) for liftoff of the ViaSat 3 Americas mission. Officials are hopeful gusty ground winds at the Kennedy Space Center will decrease in time for the Falcon Heavy to get off the ground tonight.

It has been really blowing hard, my wind chimes have been doing an all-day concert

[jztemple2]

I have some videos for you! First, an update from the Boca Chica site showing launch damage and current operations:



Next, Scott Manley goes in-depth on the launch and has some excellent insight as usual:



Finally, Scott give some good background on flight termination systems:

[jztemple2]

Also there was something odd about the angle between the plume on ascent and the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, like they hadn't gone up far enough to start their gravity turn; anyone who's spend a lot of time in Kerbal Space Program might recognize that . It might have been planned to get the booster away from the coastline quicker.

I feel really smart about this, if you watched the first of the two Scott Manley videos, at about 5:20 he makes this same observations