SPACE - random thread about space stuff

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:19 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:14 pm Yeah... that's an awful lot of new tech to be completed in a planned three to four years.

Hence the exciting part. Remember that in that time span, SLS might, if we're lucky, launch two additional times!

By the way, I see that SpaceX persists in not using the proper terminology Moonship

Unfortunately, yes.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:18 pm

So I downloaded and read the IAC paper that was referenced in Berger's tweet. I saw three items of interest. Again, my italics.

The unique architecture proposed by SpaceX for landing on the Moon uses one single-stage landing spacecraft. This means that, while several rendezvous and docking maneuvers will be required to load propellant into the HLS Starship before the crewed mission begins, there are no major docking or undocking events required to execute the lander’s mission, apart from the rendezvous in NRHO with Orion. Although this single-stage lander concept simplifies the overall crew mission profile by reducing the number of crew-critical docking and undocking procedures (compared with the Apollo lunar module which required successful separation of the Ascent Module from the Descent Module prior to lunar ascent), these maneuvers cannot be eliminated altogether.

First, "while several rendezvous and docking maneuvers will be required to load propellant into the HLS Starship before the crewed mission begins, there are no major docking or undocking events required to execute the lander’s mission". If you are splitting hairs, yes, those dockings to refuel the HLS Starship are before crewed operations, but if any of those many dockings fail to happen, then the mission fails.

The "compared with the Apollo lunar module which required successful separation of the Ascent Module from the Descent Module prior to lunar ascent" is a little disingenuous, that was a staging operation which didn't require any docking then undocking. For the overall Artemis III mission, there are many more dockings than were required by Apollo. If you define that further by using the criteria of crew-critical dockings, then the numbers are the same.

Other interface definition work is also underway, including refinement and finalization of the Interface Requirements Document (IRD) that spells out not only the physical connections that ensure mechanical compatibility between the spacecraft, but also provisions for resource sharing critical to the extension of Orion’s in-space service life.

This is interesting in that the HLS could serve as a "lifeboat" in the same way that the Lunar Module did on the Apollo 13 mission. Except of course that it would be unlikely that an Orion plus HLS combo could return to Earth for an Orion-only re-entry. It would be interesting to see if and how the HLS requirements are being adjusted for this. That final phrase, but also provisions for resource sharing critical to the extension of Orion’s in-space service life is interesting. Does that mean, since they say critical, that the safe return of all four astronauts to Earth depends on docking with the HLS Starship? Or are we looking at some long term plan for leaving an Orion at the Gateway?

A novel addition to the HLS procurement approach provides for the ability of the HLS industry provider to tap into the NASA workforce through what is called a collaboration task agreement. Through a collaboration task, the provider can take advantage of NASA’s decades of experience in human space flight programs and system development. Working through the HLS Program Office, the provider may reach out to any of the ten NASA field centers to take advantage of their respective areas of expertise, such as propulsion design, cryogenic fluid management analysis, human in the loop test planning, conducting wind tunnel testing, and any host of other technical areas. Collaboration tasks may vary in length; some may last only weeks while others may go on for years.

Having known a number of NASA folks throughout my career, I find this interesting and certainly novel. The way it normally works is that NASA programs borrow people or resources from other NASA centers. Or they borrow people or resources from contractors working for NASA. This approach is that a contractor program (HLS) will be able to "tap" into the NASA workforce. Some NASA folks, not necessarily very many, might be less than happy to be pulled off their work to work under SpaceX leadership on a program which some NASA folks might feel should have been a NASA led and managed program. Interesting...

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:02 pm

NASA announces plan to put moon on Mars by 2040.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:05 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:02 pm NASA announces plan to put moon on Mars by 2040.

lol.

the famed image of Apollo 11 commander Neil Armstrong’s first footprint on the moon would be joined in the public consciousness by photos of the 1,500-mile-wide crater the moon was expected to leave on the Red Planet.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:15 pm

Here's a look at the Artemis hydrogen Tail Service Mast (closest to camera) during an umbilical test.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:16 am

Direct from the NASA Artemis I blog, Teams Replace Seals on Artemis I Moon Rocket, Prepare for Tanking Test

After disconnecting the ground and rocket-side plates on the interface, called a quick disconnect, for the liquid hydrogen fuel feed line, teams have replaced the seals on the Space Launch System rocket’s core stage associated with the liquid hydrogen leak detected during the Artemis I launch attempt Sept. 3.

Both the 8-inch line used to fill and drain liquid hydrogen from the core stage and the 4-inch bleed line used to redirect some of the propellant during tanking operations were removed and replaced this week.

Coming up, technicians will reconnect the umbilical plates and perform inspections over the weekend before preparing for a tanking demonstration as soon as Saturday, Sept. 17. This demonstration will allow engineers to check the new seals under cryogenic, or supercold, conditions as expected on launch day and before proceeding to the next launch attempt.

During the operation, teams will practice loading liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen in the rocket’s core stage and interim cryogenic propulsion stage and getting to a stable replenish state for both propellants. Teams will confirm the leak has been repaired and also perform the kick-start bleed test and a pre-pressurization test, which will validate the ground and flight hardware and software systems can perform the necessary functions required to thermally condition the engines for flight. Following the test, teams will evaluate the data along with plans for the next launch opportunity.

That last paragraph is pretty interesting. What was initially reported as a "cryogenic leak test" of the replaced quick disconnects is now a full up tanking test which will fill both the core stage and the upper (interim) stage with liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen. They will be going all the way up to replenish (100% full). That "pre-pressurization test", if they are using the same terminology as Shuttle, means they will be taking both the LO2 and LH2 tanks in the cores stage to the pressures they will be seeing just before T-0. Pretty much this is what would have been seen if the Wet Dress Rehearsal Test had been successful.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:43 pm

SpaceX launched another Starlink mission from KSC Complex 39A this evening and have another Falcon 9 launch scheduled for tomorrow from Complex 40. In an article from SpaceFlightNow they list the following stats for tonight's mission:

MISSION STATS:

175th launch of a Falcon 9 rocket since 2010
183rd launch of Falcon rocket family since 2006
14th launch of Falcon 9 booster B1058
150th Falcon 9 launch from Florida’s Space Coast
54th SpaceX launch from pad 39A
148th launch overall from pad 39A
117th flight of a reused Falcon 9 booster
60th Falcon 9 launch primarily dedicated to the Starlink network
41st Falcon 9 launch of 2022
39th orbital launch attempt based out of Cape Canaveral in 2022

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:46 am

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 am

I assume that's the LES zooming off away from the failed engine?

edit: I read, yes - it was.

That's kinda cool. As they are saying, it was a great test for that system.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:13 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:12 am I assume that's the LES zooming off away from the failed engine?

Yes, and it looks from initial tweets at least like the escape system functioned nominally.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:14 am

Yeah, that's truly comforting on some level.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:20 am

Just visually, this looks a wee bit harder than ideal. I'm sure they will know the quantitative data quite accurately, so my speculation is meaningless - but, dang that looks like it would hurt. Maybe it's the small mushroom cloud.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:11 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:20 am Just visually, this looks a wee bit harder than ideal. I'm sure they will know the quantitative data quite accurately, so my speculation is meaningless - but, dang that looks like it would hurt. Maybe it's the small mushroom cloud.

NY Times

During the capsule’s free fall toward land, it deploys an initial set of parachutes to brake its speed, then another set of three bigger parachutes to carry the capsule softly to land at about 15 miles per hour. Milliseconds before landing in the desert — also not far from the launchpad — the capsule releases a burst of air from its underside to cushion the touchdown. The seats inside are supported by a scissor-like mechanism that further limits the impact.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:31 pm

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:58 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:11 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 11:20 am Just visually, this looks a wee bit harder than ideal. I'm sure they will know the quantitative data quite accurately, so my speculation is meaningless - but, dang that looks like it would hurt. Maybe it's the small mushroom cloud.
NY Times

During the capsule’s free fall toward land, it deploys an initial set of parachutes to brake its speed, then another set of three bigger parachutes to carry the capsule softly to land at about 15 miles per hour. Milliseconds before landing in the desert — also not far from the launchpad — the capsule releases a burst of air from its underside to cushion the touchdown. The seats inside are supported by a scissor-like mechanism that further limits the impact.

Thank you.
I feel like a fool for not considering the source of that dust cloud to be a last second landing aid, and not just ‘impact’

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:07 pm

You shouldn't feel like an idiot for that. I didn't know until I found the source. I went looking for landing velocity.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:46 pm

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:50 pm

Didn't see this until today. Went for $21K which seems pretty good but then I always overpay for history.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:01 am

From NASASpaceflight.com, Starship vehicles move to next phase of testing despite issues

SpaceX continues to make progress with its orbital test flight duo, with Ship 24 completing a six-engine static fire test, followed by Booster 7 conducting a 33-engine spin prime milestone. As that launch inches closer, teams ready multiple vehicles for future launches and near completion of major construction at their Starship Florida launch site.

And in more detail about Florida operations,

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:39 am

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:42 am

“Never tell me the odds!”

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:08 pm

NASA

NASA’s Perseverance rover is well into its second science campaign, collecting rock-core samples from features within an area long considered by scientists to be a top prospect for finding signs of ancient microbial life on Mars. The rover has collected four samples from an ancient river delta in the Red Planet’s Jezero Crater since July 7, bringing the total count of scientifically compelling rock samples to 12.
...
“Wildcat Ridge” is the name given to a rock about 3 feet (1 meter) wide that likely formed billions of years ago as mud and fine sand settled in an evaporating saltwater lake. On July 20, the rover abraded some of the surface of Wildcat Ridge so it could analyze the area with the instrument called Scanning Habitable Environments with Raman & Luminescence for Organics & Chemicals, or SHERLOC.

SHERLOC’s analysis indicates the samples feature a class of organic molecules that are spatially correlated with those of sulfate minerals. Sulfate minerals found in layers of sedimentary rock can yield significant information about the aqueous environments in which they formed.
...
“In the distant past, the sand, mud, and salts that now make up the Wildcat Ridge sample were deposited under conditions where life could potentially have thrived,” said Farley. “The fact the organic matter was found in such a sedimentary rock – known for preserving fossils of ancient life here on Earth – is important. However, as capable as our instruments aboard Perseverance are, further conclusions regarding what is contained in the Wildcat Ridge sample will have to wait until it’s returned to Earth for in-depth study as part of the agency’s Mars Sample Return campaign.”

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:55 pm

NASA requests proposals for 2nd moon lander for Artemis astronauts

NASA is asking private industry to come up with ideas for another astronaut moon lander.

The space agency is working to establish a long-term human presence on and around the moon by the end of the 2020s, via a program called Artemis. In 2021, NASA announced that it had selected SpaceX's Starship as the lander for the program's first crewed surface mission, Artemis 3, which is scheduled to touch down near the lunar south pole in 2025 or 2026.

In March of this year, agency officials said that they planned to encourage the development of a second crewed lander for Artemis, to provide redundancy and resilience for the program. That plan became official today (Sept. 16), when NASA issued a call for proposals from private companies.

Say, is that Jeff Bezos on the phone for NASA? I wonder what he wants?

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:23 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:55 pm NASA requests proposals for 2nd moon lander for Artemis astronauts

NASA is asking private industry to come up with ideas for another astronaut moon lander.

The space agency is working to establish a long-term human presence on and around the moon by the end of the 2020s, via a program called Artemis. In 2021, NASA announced that it had selected SpaceX's Starship as the lander for the program's first crewed surface mission, Artemis 3, which is scheduled to touch down near the lunar south pole in 2025 or 2026.

In March of this year, agency officials said that they planned to encourage the development of a second crewed lander for Artemis, to provide redundancy and resilience for the program. That plan became official today (Sept. 16), when NASA issued a call for proposals from private companies.
Say, is that Jeff Bezos on the phone for NASA? I wonder what he wants?

Not much doubt over this conclusion. Should've taken Bezos up on his offer to pay his own way, if NASA really needs redundancy here at all.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:15 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:23 pm Not much doubt over this conclusion. Should've taken Bezos up on his offer to pay his own way, if NASA really needs redundancy here at all.

I think NASA needs the redundancy. The SpaceX approach is very high risk, involving as it does development of quite a number of moving parts. The Blue Origin approach is rather conservative and would be good in that respect.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:46 pm

For the fifth night in a row, poor weather forced SpaceX to call off its Starlink launch, but the company hopes things clear up for their next attempt late on Sunday. SpaceX attempted to launch 54 Starlink satellites Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, but each time poor weather forced the company to scrub the liftoffs. The next launch attempt will take place Sunday at 8:18 p.m. EDT, according to SpaceX in a tweet.

This is why I think Artemis was crazy to have such a short duration for it's flight termination system battery "official" life. It's Florida in the rainy season and Artemis has a lot stricter weather restrictions than Falcon.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:15 am

NASA prepping for key fueling test of Artemis 1 moon rocket on Wednesday

NASA is gearing up for a crucial fueling test of its Artemis 1 moon rocket on Wednesday (Sept. 21) that could keep the huge vehicle on track for a liftoff less than a week later.

Wednesday's fueling test will show if that fix worked. The Artemis 1 team plans to pump supercold propellant — liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen — into the SLS on Launch Pad 39B at NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The operation is scheduled to begin at 7:15 a.m. EDT (1115 GMT) on Wednesday; it "will conclude when the objectives for the test have been met," NASA officials wrote in an update on Friday (Sept. 16).

If Artemis 1 cannot hit the Sept. 27 launch opportunity, a backup window opens on Oct. 2.

The Artemis 1 stack rolled out to Pad 39B on Aug. 16 from KSC's huge Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB). If Wednesday's fueling test does not go well, SLS and Orion may have to go back to the VAB for more extensive work.

Artemis 1 might also have to roll back to the VAB for another reason. The mission's flight termination system (FTS), which is designed to destroy the rocket if it veers off course during launch, was certified for just a 25-day stretch. That time is already up, and NASA needs a waiver from the U.S. Space Force to let Artemis 1 launch in its present condition. (The Space Force oversees the Eastern Range for rocket launches.)

NASA already received one such waiver, from 20 days to 25 days, and has requested another one. If that second request is denied, the FTS would have to be recertified, which would require a rollback to the VAB.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:45 am

Le sigh.

Spoiler:

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:43 am

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:45 am Le sigh.

Zaxxon, would you mind putting that twitter post in spoiler tags? Every time I load the thread which now contains that that post it fires off a warning from my Malwarebytes anti-virus. If you put it in spoilers and the warning stop then I'll know it was due to that twitter post, otherwise I'm going to have to do more troubleshooting

. Thanks!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:45 am

Le done.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:51 am

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:45 amLe done.

Thanks, but it turns out that the problem now seems to be centered with Google and it's products (which includes YouTube) so I can't even get Gmail to run. So either Google is trying to put malware on my computer

or Malwarebytes is being overly protective. Am troubleshooting further...

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:55 am

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:59 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:55 am

I should have suspected you'd be on top of this

. Malwarebytes just pushed an update that resolved the issue, thanks for letting me know.

Meanwhile, Artemis is back into fast fill. So the problem isn't solved, but there is a workaround.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:32 pm

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:35 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:51 am
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:45 amLe done.
Thanks, but it turns out that the problem now seems to be centered with Google and it's products (which includes YouTube) so I can't even get Gmail to run. So either Google is trying to put malware on my computer or Malwarebytes is being overly protective. Am troubleshooting further...

yep, Malwarebytes has acknowledged the issue and working on it. If you update your client it will resolve it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:59 pm

Good to finally have the WDR out of the way, natch!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:36 pm

Nice. Hope they light the candle soon.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:32 pm

SpaceX Starship orbital flight 'highly likely' in November, Elon Musk says

SpaceX's huge Starship Mars rocket could go orbital as soon as next month.

SpaceX is gearing up for the first-ever orbital test flight of Starship, the giant vehicle it's building to take cargo and people to the moon, Mars and other distant destinations. And that landmark try may be just around the corner.

"Late next month maybe, but November seems highly likely. We will have two boosters & ships ready for orbital flight by then, with full stack production at roughly one every two months," company founder and CEO Elon Musk said via Twitter today (Sept. 21), in response to a follower who asked about the timing of the test flight.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:36 pm

Speaking of Starship, who wants to see the 7-engine static fire at 1/37.5x speed? (Good stuff starts around midway through.)

When they finally light up all 33, it's going to be ridiculous.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:42 pm

This is also neat.