I know capitalism works...but

Everything else!

Moderators: Bakhtosh, EvilHomer3k

User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LordMortis »

I suppose the lawsuit is OK as long as he only needs to pay what he can afford. What do they usually commission for art for a $10 album? Let's say $500? So it logically follows that a $2 Million should commission $100 million art. If he can't afford that then they should be able to make arrangements for him to pay a fraction of that, say $5 million?
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by stessier »

Max Peck wrote:Shkreli is sued over his $2 million Wu-Tang Clan album
Martin Shkreli faces a new legal headache, a lawsuit claiming that his $2 million Wu-Tang Clan album contains illustrations ripped off from a New York artist, who now wants the former drug executive to pay for them.

In a complaint filed on Tuesday in Manhattan federal court, Jason Koza said he never allowed his fan art depicting Wu-Tang members to be used in packaging for the hip-hop group's "Once Upon a Time in Shaolin," the sole copy of which Shkreli bought. Shkreli has bragged that he had no plans to listen to the album, but bought it to "keep it from the people." The 32-year-old is also known for sparking outrage last year among patients, doctors and politicians after his former company Turing Pharmaceuticals raised the price of the anti-parisitic infection drug Daraprim by more than 5,000 percent.

Koza, 34, of Copiague, New York, said he thought his nine works would appear only on the website WuDisciples.blogspot.com. But the Fashion Institute of Technology graduate now blames Wu-Tang leader Robert "RZA" Diggs for including them in the "Shaolin" album, and Shkreli for allowing three works depicting Inspectah Deck, Ol' Dirty Bastard and Raekwon to accompany a Jan. 29 article at Vice.com. "Mr. Koza was happy when his work appeared on the website," the complaint said. "Mr. Koza never granted a license for his works to be copied or displayed anywhere (else)." Other defendants include Paddle8, which auctioned the album, and Wu Tang-affiliated producer Tarik "Cilvaringz" Azzougarh.

Koza said Cilvaringz has acknowledged the infringement, asking in a Jan. 31 email "if you want to skype discussing the use of your drawings. Thanks bro." Benjamin Brafman, a lawyer for Shkreli, did not immediately respond to requests for comment. Wu-Tang did not immediately respond to a similar request. A Paddle8 spokeswoman declined to comment.

Last Thursday, Shkreli invoked his constitutional right against self-incrimination at a House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform hearing on drug pricing, and later tweeted that lawmakers in Congress were imbeciles. (Full Story) He also faces separate federal securities fraud charges.

Koza is seeking unspecified damages plus profits stemming from copyright infringement. His lawyer Peter Scoolidge said in a phone interview that Shkreli "didn't need to know" the illustrations were protected to be liable. "There is no intent requirement for copyright infringement," he said.

The case is Koza v Diggs et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York, No. 16-00956.
:clap:
Talk about a stupid lawsuit. There is no viable theory where Shkreli is on the hook for anything. Wu-Tang could have a problem though.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13682
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Max Peck »

Ex-drug executive Shkreli hid control of shares, U.S. says
U.S. prosecutors tacked on an additional criminal charge to their case against former drug executive Martin Shkreli on Friday, alleging that he tried to conceal from investors his control over unrestricted shares in Retrophin Inc (RTRX.O). Federal prosecutors in the New York City borough of Brooklyn filed a superseding indictment with eight criminal counts against Shkreli, who last year became a lightning rod for outrage over soaring prescription drug prices. He was initially indicted in December on seven counts. Shkreli, 33, pleaded not guilty to the earlier indictment and is awaiting a possible trial this year or next. "The new indictment adds nothing of value to the government's case that still relies on a flawed theory as to Mr. Shkreli," his lawyer Benjamin Brafman said in a statement.

According to the new indictment, in 2012 Shkreli and Retrophin's outside counsel Evan Greebel divided 2 million of the company's unrestricted shares across seven employees and contractors in such a way as to avoid the reporting requirements of federal securities law. Shkreli and Greebel also in effect controlled the shares by preventing some of the employees and contractors from selling them but they did not disclose that control to securities regulators, the indictment says. Greebel, who was charged in the earlier indictment and pleaded not guilty, also faces the additional charge, bringing the number of counts against him to two. A lawyer for him declined to comment.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LordMortis »

http://www.newyorker.com/business/curre ... l_facebook
Nor is Mylan done with its lobbying. As the Times reported recently, the company is pushing the government to label the EpiPen as a “preventive medicine.” That labelling would require insurance companies to cover the full cost of the device, which Mylan assumes will quell the consumer backlash against the company and make it easier to keep raising prices in the future (because those prices will be paid by insurers, not consumers). This is a perfect example of the company’s attempt to leverage government power into increasing demand for its product. It’s also an example of how the company has tried to hide the magnitude of its price hikes by diminishing how much consumers pay out of pocket. That may help consumers in the short run, but it won’t do anything to mitigate the impact of EpiPen price increases on the medical system as a whole, and it only means consumers will end up paying later, in the form of higher premiums. The real winner, in the long run, will be Mylan.

What Mylan’s success really shows is that the current pharmaceutical system allows companies to be rewarded not for real innovations but for gaming that system. What the company has done is enjoy the benefits of government assistance and authority without having to endure any additional scrutiny, let alone any governmental control over the prices it charges. Mylan finally got some of that scrutiny on Wednesday. Unfortunately, translating that scrutiny into real change seems like something Congress just can’t bring itself to do.
User avatar
Formix
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Formix »

To me, as a user of EpiPens, and whose life depends on them, this is at the same time understandable and deplorable. What is it worth to stay alive? A few hundred bucks? That's a bargain. However, when money is tight, and I was only stung once, I have made the decision not to take the EpiPen, and not go to the ER, because the thought of spending about a grand between the pen and ER visit, was too much for by budget to bear. Luckily, I lived through that, but it just reinforces the question next time of whether it's worth it or not. I recognize that this is a tremendous gamble, death versus a grand, but there it is. It also begs the question, how much profit is enough. Can we quantify that? I kind of feel like we should, as a society. is 100% markup the limit? 1000%?
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 21045
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Defiant »

Students have made Martin Shkreli's $750 drug in their chem lab for just $2
To prove how much of a dick move that was, a group of high school students in Australia has now created 3.7 grams of Daraprim's active ingredient in their chemistry lab for just $20 - an amount that would sell in the US for between $35,000 and $110,000 at the current rate charged by Shkreli's company.

For perspective, a tablet's worth of the students' medicine costs just $2 to make, as opposed to the $750 Shkreli's company Turing Pharmaceuticals sells it for in the US (the company cut the drug's price by 50 percent for US hospitals following the backlash, but didn't change the cost for private patients).
That means for a competitor - such as the students' new drug - to be able to be sold on the US open market, it would have to be compared in trials to Shkreli's product.

But if Shkreli didn't allow those comparisons to take place, creators of the new drug would have to fund a whole new clinical trial from scratch - something that can cost millions. So you can see why they don't have any American competitors.

But the students' main goal in all of this wasn't to sell their drug - it's simply to show that it could be created for a lot cheaper than Turing Pharmaceuticals is selling it for, and hopefully inspire other manufacturers to try their new technique, which has been published in full online.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote:http://www.newyorker.com/business/curre ... l_facebook
Nor is Mylan done with its lobbying. As the Times reported recently, the company is pushing the government to label the EpiPen as a “preventive medicine.” That labelling would require insurance companies to cover the full cost of the device, which Mylan assumes will quell the consumer backlash against the company and make it easier to keep raising prices in the future (because those prices will be paid by insurers, not consumers). This is a perfect example of the company’s attempt to leverage government power into increasing demand for its product. It’s also an example of how the company has tried to hide the magnitude of its price hikes by diminishing how much consumers pay out of pocket. That may help consumers in the short run, but it won’t do anything to mitigate the impact of EpiPen price increases on the medical system as a whole, and it only means consumers will end up paying later, in the form of higher premiums. The real winner, in the long run, will be Mylan.

What Mylan’s success really shows is that the current pharmaceutical system allows companies to be rewarded not for real innovations but for gaming that system. What the company has done is enjoy the benefits of government assistance and authority without having to endure any additional scrutiny, let alone any governmental control over the prices it charges. Mylan finally got some of that scrutiny on Wednesday. Unfortunately, translating that scrutiny into real change seems like something Congress just can’t bring itself to do.
Whenever I see some scifi trope that has the whole world in thrall so some corporation that has the killer app/med/tech I think, "No way, competition and regulation would never allow that to happen." But then I see something like that that demonstrates how governments can be manipulated so completely I think, "Hmm, maybe."
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Paingod
Posts: 13132
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:58 am

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Paingod »

LawBeefaroni wrote:Whenever I see some scifi trope that has the whole world in thrall so some corporation that has the killer app/med/tech I think, "No way, competition and regulation would never allow that to happen." But then I see something like that that demonstrates how governments can be manipulated so completely I think, "Hmm, maybe."
I'd love some kind of override button - when extreme dickery is detected in a business, we mash that button and whatever they were being extreme dicks about becomes public domain. Of course, then laws would need to be established to define dickery in scale and scope, and then lobbyists would have to fight to preserve their dickery with pro-dick measures.
Black Lives Matter

2021-01-20: The first good night's sleep I had in 4 years.
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by stessier »

A competitor has stepped up and is making a generic alternative that lists for the same price as the Epipen before all the markups ($109.99) and only $9.99 with a coupon for qualifying patients. Nice.
Pharmaceutical giant CVS announced Thursday that it has partnered with Impax Laboratories to sell a generic epinephrine auto-injector for $109.99 for a two-pack—a dramatic cut from Mylan’s Epipen two-pack prices, which list for more than $600 as a brand name and $300 as a generic.

The lower-cost auto-injector, a generic form of Adrenaclick, is available starting today nationwide in the company’s more than 9,600 pharmacies. Its price resembles that of EpiPen’s before Mylan bought the rights to the life-saving devices back in 2007 and raised the price repeatedly, sparking outcry.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LordMortis »

Nightly Business Reports has been doing a three day story on generic opiod overdose antidotes and how the pharms have been leveraging the increased legal and illegal use of opiods to raise prices.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LawBeefaroni »

ARS wrote:Last week, Marathon Pharmaceuticals announced that it would start selling an old steroid drug that treats Duchenne muscular dystrophy for a whopping $89,000 per year of treatment. That’s a steep increase from the $1,200-per-year generic version that families could import from other countries.

Shelved now due to the uproar but no doubt it will resume after it wears off.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Moliere »

"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
KDH
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: California

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by KDH »

...

:naughty: ... Jury selection process for the trial of Martin Shkreli

<snip>
the court: The purpose of jury selection is to ensure fairness and impartiality in this case. If you think that you could not be fair and impartial, it is your duty to tell me. All right. Juror Number 1.

juror no. 1: I’m aware of the defendant and I hate him.

the court: I’m sorry.

juror no. 1: I think he’s a greedy little man.

the court: Jurors are obligated to decide the case based only on the evidence. Do you agree?

juror no. 1: I don’t know if I could. I wouldn’t want me on this jury.

the court: Juror Number 1 is excused. ... next!
.
Ain't nobody got time for that
.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LordMortis »

It's worth reading to get to the end
the court: All right. I’m going to excuse you. Juror Number 59, come on up.

juror no. 59: Your Honor, totally he is guilty and in no way can I let him slide out of anything because —

the court: Okay. Is that your attitude toward anyone charged with a crime who has not been proven guilty?

juror no. 59: It’s my attitude toward his entire demeanor, what he has done to people.

the court: All right. We are going to excuse you, sir.

juror no. 59: And he disrespected the Wu-Tang Clan.
User avatar
KDH
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: California

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by KDH »

...

:coffee: ... Martin Shkreli is buying websites associated with the names of journalists critical of him

and customizing them with mocking messages
Spoiler:
Over the past several months, the former pharmaceutical executive Martin Shkreli has trolled journalists who have written or tweeted about him by purchasing internet domains associated with their names.

After sitting on the domain names for months, Shkreli appears to be customizing the sites, explicitly mocking reporters who have tweeted about him.

A website named after Maya Kosoff, a tech reporter at Vanity Fair, welcomes the visitor and adds, "Here we honor one of the most vibrant Social Justice advocates today," alluding to "social justice warriors," a derisive slur associated with advocacy for liberal causes.

Shkreli wrote a similar message on a website he bought associated with Caroline Moss, an editor at CNBC. A site associated with her name welcomes visitors and says it has "everything you need to know about this CNBC safe spacer," a reference to colleges' so-called safe spaces, which are often mocked by the right.

The former CEO also customized a domain associated with Emily Saul, a court reporter for the New York Post, and offered to sell the domain back to her for $12,000.

Since the beginning of the year, Shkreli has purchased domain names for 12 people, including journalists and commentators from CNBC, Vice, the Post, Vanity Fair, Teen Vogue, AOL, Bloomberg, Dealbreaker, Gizmodo, and Business Insider.

In an email to Business Insider, Shkreli dismissed Kosoff's and Moss' work and described his activity on the sites as "occupying cool namespaces."

"Anything special you want on yours?" he asked.

"I wouldn't call these people 'journalists.' They are the unwitting recipients of liberalism subsidy from large media and telecom companies," Shkreli said, adding that they were "only a few notches above the white supremacists we hear so much about these days."

Shkreli first sparked national outrage in 2015 when his company Turing Pharmaceuticals raised the price of a drug used to treat a disease that can be fatal in people with HIV by more than 5,000%. He has since embraced his image as a provocateur and "pharma bro."

On the day in January when Twitter suspended Shkreli's account for harassing Lauren Duca, an opinion writer at Teen Vogue, the former exec snagged MarryMeLauren.com.

He has continued to mock and criticize journalists who've covered the spectacle surrounding his trial and celebrity, singling out outlets that cover the pharmaceutical industry.

Shkreli has repeatedly blasted CNBC, and he refused to take questions from a CNBC reporter after being convicted this month of securities fraud and conspiracy to commit securities fraud while he was managing his drug company Retrophin.

He livestreamed himself earlier this year purchasing domain names associated with Max Nisen, a pharma reporter at Bloomberg who has written about Shkreli, and Phil Witmer, a reporter at Noisey. Witmer had published a story titled "Lil B Shouts Out Martin Shkreli, We All Die a Little Inside," in which he dubbed Shkreli a "living cartoon gremlin" and called the rapper shout-out a "stain on the BasedGod's good name."

"Can I buy PhilWitmer.com right now?" Shkreli said on the livestream. "Yes I can, and yes I will."

The former CEO has also toyed with reporters in other ways, posting private exchanges with Dylan Scott, a former correspondent for Stat News, to "put this geek journalist on notice" when Scott reached out to him for a story.

After Business Insider published an article in March about Shkreli's actions, he purchased a domain associated with the author and emailed him offering the opportunity to purchase it back.

I would call him 'unhinged', but I would feel bad if I couldn't pony up the $12,000 to take KDH.com off his hands
.
Ain't nobody got time for that
.
User avatar
KDH
Posts: 1309
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:04 pm
Location: California

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by KDH »

...

:coffee: .. Martin Shkreli is headed to jail

<snippets>
* Shkreli awaits sentencing following convictions on three counts of securities fraud in connection to a Ponzi-like scheme in which he defrauded investors of two hedge funds he managed. He faces up to 20 years in prison, although legal experts expect he’ll serve much less.

* While he has a history of harassing women online, prosecutors were particularly critical of a September 4 Facebook post in which he offered his followers a $5,000 reward for plucking a strand of Hillary Clinton’s hair during her current book tour. He reportedly made a reference to using the strands for genetic testing in the post, which has since been deleted.

Judge called Shkreli’s call to pluck Hillary Clinton’s hair “solicitation of assault.”

The post also prompted the Secret Service to interview Shkreli.
.
Ain't nobody got time for that
.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Isgrimnur »

ChiTrib
"Pharma Bro" Martin Shkreli cried in court Friday as he apologized for defrauding investors while being sentenced by a federal judge.

Shkreli, his cocky persona nowhere to be found, cried as he told U.S. District Judge Kiyo Matsumoto he made many mistakes and apologized to investors. He was convicted of securities fraud last year for defrauding investors in two failed hedge funds.

He said he is the only person to blame — not the media, not the government, nor his business partners — and that he hopes to make amends and learn from his mistakes.
...
Attorney Benjamin Brafman argued for Matsumoto to sentence the former pharmaceutical company CEO known for trolling critics on the internet to 18 months in prison.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jacquelyn Kasulis argued that he deserves 15 years in prison not because he is "the most hated man in America," but because he is a criminal convicted of serious fraud.

She said the judge must also consider the history and characteristics of the defendant, and said that Shkreli has "no respect whatsoever" for the law, or the court proceedings.
...
Matsumoto ruled earlier this week that Shkreli would have to forfeit more than $7.3 million in a brokerage account and personal assets including his one-of-a-kind Wu-Tang Clan album that he boasted he bought for $2 million. The judge said the property would not be seized until Shkreli had a chance to appeal.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Moliere
Posts: 12297
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:57 am
Location: Walking through a desert land

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Moliere »

Matsumoto ruled earlier this week that Shkreli would have to forfeit more than $7.3 million in a brokerage account and personal assets including his one-of-a-kind Wu-Tang Clan album that he boasted he bought for $2 million. The judge said the property would not be seized until Shkreli had a chance to appeal.
If the government is about to take the album why not just post it for free on the Internet. :twisted:
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by stessier »

I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13682
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Max Peck »

Spa prison, or actual prison?
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by stessier »

He's spent the last 6 months in a federal holding facility in Brooklyn which sounds unpleasant. Not sure of where he's going to serve the rest of the term.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28907
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Holman »

Apologizes to investors but not to the sick people whose need for medication he exploited?

Cry harder, bro.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by stessier »

Holman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:39 pm Apologizes to investors but not to the sick people whose need for medication he exploited?

Cry harder, bro.
That wasn't illegal or why he was being sentenced.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7664
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by gbasden »

It just should have been in a just world.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28907
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Holman »

stessier wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:45 am
Holman wrote: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:39 pm Apologizes to investors but not to the sick people whose need for medication he exploited?

Cry harder, bro.
That wasn't illegal or why he was being sentenced.
Exactly. But it was still wrong, and it still puts him beyond sympathy.

In fact that's the lesson of this case: screw the needy and you're a bad-boy success; screw rich investors and you might suffer.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13682
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Max Peck »

The secondary moral of the story is "Don't taunt Happy Fun Court." His sentence is likely all the harsher for his unrepentant douchebaggery over the course of the trial.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by ImLawBoy »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:23 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:Found the NYT article. Turns out I had my dollar figures wrong. It didn't cost $2K per vial previously - it cost $50. I got the $28K right, though!
Looks like you had it right the first time too. It was $50 at one point, per that doctor's recollection, drifted up to $1,650, and then Questcor jacked it up to $23,000 in their cash grab.
In 2007, it raised the price overnight, to more than $23,000 a vial, from $1,650, bringing the cost of a typical course of treatment for infantile spasms to above $100,000. It said it needed the high price to keep the drug on the market.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:26 pm Incidentally, it worked out well for Questcor, they got bought by Mallilnckrodt for almost $6B. 95% of their revenue was from Acthar.


Acthar generated net sales for Questcor of $761.3 million in 2013, up 49.6% from calendar 2012. Acthar accounted for 95% of Questcor’s 2013 revenues: The company finished 2013 with a 57% jump in net sales, to $799 million, with adjusted net income growing 61% year-over-year, to $337 million.
Remember this one? Well, the new owners founds some potentially sketchy adult uses for Acthar. This led to Medicare paying nearly $1.8B for ACTH claims from 2013-2016. Mallinckrodt is apparently quite proud of the fact that a vial of Acthar gel has only increased from $32K to $39K since they bought Questcor in 2014.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Isgrimnur »

FDA approves first generic version of EpiPen
The new drug, from Teva Pharmaceuticals USA, is the first to be deemed a therapeutic equivalent of the EpiPen epinephrine autoinjector, which means that it can be automatically substituted at the pharmacy counter for prescriptions for EpiPen or EpiPen, Jr.
...
The Teva product had a hard road to approval, in part because it is a complex generic, meaning the medicine includes both an injector device and a drug. Mylan actively fought the approval of the drug, sending a citizen petition to the FDA in 2015 arguing that the drug was not truly equivalent. The FDA rejected Teva's initial application in 2016, citing "major deficiencies." Under FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, the agency has made it a priority to smooth the regulatory pathway for such "complex generics" that are difficult to copy.

Teva's generic will compete against Mylan's own authorized generic, which has already steeply eroded its brand-name sales. Roughly $1 billion in sales of the brand name version of EpiPen in 2016 dropped by more than half in 2017.

Last September, the FDA said that Meridian Medical Technologies, a Pfizer company that manufactures the EpiPen, failed to properly investigate more than 100 complaints that the device malfunctioned during life-threatening emergencies — including situations in which patients died.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
Executives at more than a dozen generic-drug companies had a form of shorthand to describe how they conducted business, insider lingo worked out over steak dinners, cocktail receptions and rounds of golf.

The “sandbox,” according to investigators, was the market for generic prescription drugs, where everyone was expected to play nice.

“Fair share” described dividing up the sales pie to ensure that each company reaped continued profits. “Trashing the market” was used when a competitor ignored these unwritten rules and sold drugs for less than agreed-upon prices.

The terminology reflected more than just the clubbiness of a powerful industry, according to authorities and several lawsuits. Officials from multiple states say these practices were central to illegal price-fixing schemes of massive proportion.

The lawsuit and related cases picked up steam last month when a federal judge ruled that more than 1 million emails, cellphone texts and other documents cited as evidence could be shared among all plaintiffs.

What started as an antitrust lawsuit brought by states over just two drugs in 2016 has exploded into an investigation of alleged price-fixing involving at least 16 companies and 300 drugs, Joseph Nielsen, an assistant attorney general and antitrust investigator in Connecticut who has been a leading force in the probe, said in an interview. His comments in an interview with The Washington Post represent the first public disclosure of the dramatically expanded scale of the investigation.
...
In just one instance of extraordinary cost spikes, the price of a decades-old drug to ease asthma symptoms, albuterol, sold by generic manufacturers Mylan and Sun, jumped more than 3,400 percent, from 13 cents a tablet to more than $4.70. The example is documented in a lawsuit brought against the generic industry by grocery chains including Kroger.
...
Among the 16 companies accused are some of the biggest names in generic manufacturing: Mylan, Teva and Dr. Reddy’s. Mylan denied wrongdoing in an emailed statement. Sun, Teva and Dr. Reddy’s did not respond to requests for comment. In a court filing, Teva said allegations of a price-fixing conspiracy “are entirely conclusory and devoid of any facts.”

But investigators say voluminous documentation they have collected, much of it under seal and not available to the public, shows the industry to be riddled with price-fixing schemes. The plaintiffs now include 47 states. The investigators expect to unveil new details and add more defendants in coming months, which will put more pressure on executives to consider settlements.

Two former executives of one company, Heritage Pharmaceuticals, have pleaded guilty to federal criminal charges and are cooperating with the Justice Department in a parallel criminal case. A Justice Department spokesman declined to comment.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by GreenGoo »

That can't be true. I have been assured that foreign markets are paying less than their fair share to fund American pharmaceutical research and the American market is what a free market would pay, and hence the right amount. Everyone else is just taking advantage...or something.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LawBeefaroni »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:25 am That can't be true. I have been assured that foreign markets are paying less than their fair share to fund American pharmaceutical research and the American market is what a free market would pay, and hence the right amount. Everyone else is just taking advantage...or something.
That argument, whether legit or not, was never applied to generics. It was only applied to the first gen drugs where US dollars supposedly pay for the R&D.

Generics can't hide behind that claim.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:27 am Generics can't hide behind that claim.
Can't is an interesting term because they do. It's often the justification right up until a medication goes OTC.

Albuterol is an interesting one noted above. When laws changed on aerosol delivery, the patent changed for Albuterol by inhaler and it went from generic preferred named prescription, so the copay changed. I don't know what they insurer pays but my payment octopled. My guess is my insurers payment also when up like crazy.
User avatar
Kasey Chang
Posts: 20750
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:20 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Kasey Chang »

I think I've said it before, Costco drove down my drug costs before I got my present job and insurance. The catch is I have to pay for all three months at once. That cost like $127 for three meds, 3 month supply. If I had used my "local pharmacy" the cost would be closer to $200.

Now the same drugs, spread out over 3 months, is costing me $30 a month for deductibles from my local pharmacy. Maybe I should go down to CVS, which opened a shop 2 blocks from my house. It's pretty long blocks though, but closer than Walgreens.
My game FAQs | Playing: She Will Punish Them, Sunrider: Mask of Arcadius, The Outer Worlds
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LawBeefaroni »

99PI on how we got here, aka "best laid plans..."


Worth a listen.

An orphan drug bill passed the house but got stalled in the senate. Meyers heard a single senator (rumored to be Orrin Hatch) was secretly blocking it. Klugman and his crew swung into action. They did yet another episode of Quincy — this time about a single senator who was holding up an orphan drug bill.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by GreenGoo »

Read it, thanks.

Was particularly interesting to hear the role of Klugeman and Quincy. I certainly watched it as a child, so the tv show is something I experienced personally.

I'm not surprised that people can't see into the future or predict every possible consequence of a bill, so unlike one of the commenters, I don't think this is a case of "be careful what you wish for". Having a drug available at an exorbitant price is better than not having the drug at all.

It's been 30 years since Reagan signed that bill into law. Might be time for another kick at the can.
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by ImLawBoy »

So back to that ACTH/Acthar Gel drug I discussed earlier in this thread. There's a whistleblower suit ongoing from former Questcor/Mallinckrodt employees about the company bribing doctors to prescribe their drug, which led to millions in medicare claims. The DOJ is now stepping in, which doesn't sound good for the company.
The government doesn't take the decision to intervene in a whistleblower case lightly, said Jennifer Arlen, a professor of law at New York University who specializes in corporate enforcement.

"The government has tended to take over cases that become winners," said Arlen, who serves as director of NYU's Program on Corporate Compliance and Enforcement. "Historically, the government's decision to take this over is a bad sign" for the company being investigated.

The government intervenes in fewer than 25% of whistleblower cases, according to the Justice Department.
There were nearly $2 billion in Medicare claims for Acthar from 2011-2016, and while much of that was likely legit (even if the medicine is still obscenely overpriced for legitimate uses), there's likely a lot of that resulting from the compensation the company gave to doctors for prescribing it for sketchy purposes.
If found liable, Mallinckrodt could be required to pay up to three times any amount the government is found to have been defrauded, as well as penalties ranging from $5,500 to $11,000 for each false claim, according to the whistleblower statute.
I'm sure they'll need to jack up the price of the drug again to pay for this. :roll:
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's almost as if profit motive and public health needs are at cross purposes.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
LawBeefaroni
Forum Moderator
Posts: 55316
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:08 pm
Location: Urbs in Horto, outrageous taxes on everything

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:57 am It's almost as if profit motive and public health needs are at cross purposes.
Remove competition and the profit motive breaks stuff. That's what happening here. With healthy competition, pharma can turn a profit AND serve the public good.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
"No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton

MYT
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82094
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: I know capitalism works...but

Post by Isgrimnur »

To butcher John Gilmore: Capitalism sees competition as an obstacle and attempts to route around it.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
Post Reply