Canada 2015-22 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

IceBear wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:58 pm Armed truckers

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.6351112


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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

Peter Sloly resigns as Ottawa's police chief as critics denounce his handling of convoy protest
Peter Sloly has resigned as Ottawa's police chief and will publicly announce his resignation after the Ottawa Police Services Board meeting today, sources tell CBC News.

The former chief has been criticized over his handling of a truck convoy protest that has caused major disruptions to Ottawa's downtown core.

Sloly's resignation comes as sources tell CBC News he's been accused of bullying and volatile behaviour that has damaged relations with senior leadership and compromised the force's ability to cope with the truck protest.

Multiple sources have told CBC News that Sloly allegedly belittled and berated senior Ottawa Police Service officers in front of their colleagues, and has failed to put forward a solid operations plan to end the crisis.

Sources say he allegedly has come into conflict with members of the OPP and RCMP tasked with assisting the city's law enforcement efforts during the crisis.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by em2nought »

Max Peck wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:38 pm Sources say he allegedly has come into conflict with members of the OPP and RCMP tasked with assisting the city's law enforcement efforts during the crisis.
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Hasn't the "RCMP" just recently changed their title to "STASI"? :lol:

https://twitter.com/RCMPNS/status/1482351970832818176
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Alefroth »

I don't get it.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by em2nought »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:34 pm I don't get it.
It's a reach.
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Kraken »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 10:34 pm I don't get it.
The RCMP are forcibly arresting an old person for wearing plaid pajama pants. Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Alefroth »

For all they know, he could have been about to put on a striped toque.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Blackhawk »

The plaid pants used the wrong pronoun.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

Well, this is no bueno.

Statement from Commander Canadian Special Operations Forces Command
“The Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) does not condone its members supporting and/or actively taking part in causes that jeopardize the apolitical imperative associated with their functions. I expect our members to act in ways that demonstrate Canadian Armed Forces values and ethics, and to uphold them both on and off duty.

“This has been clearly communicated to our members through the CANSOFCOM chain of command.

“I have recently been advised of allegations that at least three CANSOFCOM members have been, in some form or another, supporting the ongoing protests in Ottawa.

"If the allegations are accurate, this is wrong and it goes against CAF values and ethics. The following actions are specific to each case:

“On February 1, 2022, CANSOFCOM senior leadership was made aware of a case allegedly involving one of its members. The member is already in the process of being released from the Canadian Armed Forces. That said, a unit disciplinary investigation that includes this allegation was launched by the chain of command.

“On February 10, 2022, CANSOFCOM senior leadership was made aware of allegations involving two other members. One of the alleged members, who is from CANSOFCOM, is also in the process of being released from the Canadian Armed Forces. Regardless, on 10 February 2022, I ordered that an investigation be initiated.

“The other member in question is not a CANSOFCOM member. We have therefore notified that individual’s leadership so that it may proceed accordingly.

“If there are any other allegations attributed to our members, the chain of command will investigate each case and take appropriate decisions/actions.

“Leadership and culture are and have always been critical aspects of focus for all members of CANSOFCOM and we are committed to a professional, effective and ethical force that can make all Canadians proud.”
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

I don't know the specific circumstances here, but it may be related to the fact that some of the Omnicronvoy has been camped out in residential areas rather than all being at Parliament Hill and they've been laying on their horns all night, because nothing says "Freedom!" like the ability to torment the locals, I guess. IIRC, there was a court injunction prohibiting said noise, so it's possible the old guy was in violation of the court order and the cops went for the low-hanging fruit.

They were touting a whopping 25 arrests related to the protests the last I heard, and they've got to pump those stats one way or another. :coffee:
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by LordMortis »

Ad block alert because Holy Beans! is that thing a nightmare to navigate and read. Read sentence. Pages of ads. Page does weird loading to refresh ads. Then you have have to find the sentence you are on. I'm having bad geocities flashbacks.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Blackhawk »

Try sitting outside of a church, or a school, or a hospital with your hand on the horn for a while after the police tell you stop and see what happens... Sort of like being arrested for USING THE WRONG PRONOUNS - the headline is focusing on the details rather than on the circumstances. As to roughing him up, that's more complicated than I want to get into right now, but the video doesn't, from my experience, show 'roughing up.' It shows why it is dangerous to physically restrain any person, and why going hands-on is such a big deal.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Isgrimnur »

LordMortis wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:07 pm
Ad block alert because Holy Beans! is that thing a nightmare to navigate and read. Read sentence. Pages of ads. Page does weird loading to refresh ads. Then you have have to find the sentence you are on. I'm having bad geocities flashbacks.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Max Peck wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:18 pm
I don't know the specific circumstances here, but it may be related to the fact that some of the Omnicronvoy has been camped out in residential areas rather than all being at Parliament Hill and they've been laying on their horns all night, because nothing says "Freedom!" like the ability to torment the locals, I guess.
I think you're right. There was a noise injunction made by a young student after she was fed up of all the noise. Many residents have had trouble sleeping in general and stressed out by the Truckers and their actions. It's not even so much the horns themselves, but the fact that they've gone and amplified them using traffic cones and made themselves real nuissances by disturbing the peace. It's tantamount to someone coming into someone's living-room uninvited and acting like they own the place and then demand that they be respected.

So, unfortunately for him, and he may not have realized what he was doing, it sounds like he broke the injunction, police saw him do it and felt compelled to arrest him. Though they didn't need to rough him up like this.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Blackhawk »

I still don't see roughing up. What I saw: They did a very basic arm restraint to pull his arm in for cuffing, and the guy pulled away on the slippery ground. The guy, being 78, partially fell (he wasn't thrown down - the cop's hand are in the wrong position for that to have been a takedown, and you can see he's pulling, not pushing at that point - I've used that same hold multiple times myself), at which point the cop is using his hand under the guys arm to support him and get him back on his feet. They didn't slam him against the car, either. What they did was in line with what I'd expect when restraining someone, not excessive.

Any time you make a physical arrest, there's an element of risk. With an elderly person, that goes up, as simply pulling against the restraint can cause bruising, and even risk broken bones or dislocations (pulling hard enough against a static restraint can pull a joint out of socket even in young people.)

With all of that said, there was still a decision point that was questionable: The decision to handcuff. I don't know the Ottowa policy, and I don't know the basis of their decision to restrain him. But unless he represented a threat to them or himself, there's generally some discretion as when it is necessary to restrain someone who's under arrest.

Just to be clear: They probably shouldn't have handcuffed him. But the actual physical events, aside from that decision, didn't seem out of line. They certainly didn't slam him to the ground and beat him as seems to be suggested.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Jaymann »

The perp clearly said, "HE grabbed me by the shoulder."
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:25 pm I still don't see roughing up.
No, you're right. I was mostly pedantic at this point and repeating what was already being said. It looks like it he was rather unsteady on his feet which would have contributed to looking like he was being roughed up.

Now, in slightly different news, I normally don't entertain Fox News, but I found this entertaining, Geraldo schooling the panel on the Convoy, and the commentator does a great job describing the situation in Ottawa overall.

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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Jaymann »

Rumpy wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:24 am
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:25 pm I still don't see roughing up.
No, you're right. I was mostly pedantic at this point and repeating what was already being said. It looks like it he was rather unsteady on his feet which would have contributed to looking like he was being roughed up.

Now, in slightly different news, I normally don't entertain Fox News, but I found this entertaining, Geraldo schooling the panel on the Convoy, and the commentator does a great job describing the situation in Ottawa overall.

I saw that too. Generally Rivera is still looking for Capone's tomb, but this time he gets it right. Those Fox dipshits actually argued that the caravan is not disrupting normal life.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Yeah, and of course they'd say that when they're not the ones experiencing it. :P I mean, it's kind of like arguing against the voice of actual experience of those who have dealt with it from day to day since this began. They know themselves what they experienced. Kind of like the story of the person who complained about the convoy and had protesters find the apartment building they lived in, with the protesters lighting firestarters and then taping the doors shut. I'm glad Rivera said something.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by LordMortis »

Locally, we've had fairly accurate reporting but it's mostly been about the Ambassador (as it's our back yard) and not Ottawa. Though we do go so far as to talk about Trudeau, etc... They don't talk about the organizers and the funding coming from the deep south US or thuggery though. They absolutely have been talking about how the people most hurt were the preponderance of truckers who were either stuck or couldn't do deliveries at all and as contractors were going hungry.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

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The truckers eh? Hmmm. Do they negate to mention that it's not even a real trucker industry backed protest? Most of the truckers out doing their jobs have been fully vaccinated and are currently out delivering products, they're not sitting around protesting. The industry itself has condemned the protest. See, that's a fine line not often talked about. The distinction needs to be made, and at this point the protesters shouldn't even be called 'truckers', as due to the Emergency Act, some may even have their licenses revoked. Sounds like so many things about this are either not mentioned or glossed over. Do they also negate to mention the fact that there are nazi and confederate flags being waved around, and that some of our statues have been desecrated for their own purposes?
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Jaymann »

Ha! And these A-holes are the first to decry False Flag Operation!
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

Some of the fine, upstanding citizens participating in the blockades.

4 Alberta border protesters charged with conspiring to murder RCMP officers
Seven of the protesters arrested in connection with a blockade at the Coutts, Alta., border crossing have been granted bail but those accused of conspiring to murder RCMP officers remain behind bars.

The first 11 protesters to be arrested ahead of two others who were taken into custody later on Monday made their first court appearance Tuesday afternoon on charges that include conspiracy to murder, mischief and possession of a weapon.

The on-and-off blockade of the normally busy border crossing by people opposed to COVID-19 health restrictions has lasted more than two weeks.

The arrests followed an RCMP raid of trailers in the early morning hours on Monday when officers seized guns, body armour, a large quantity of ammunition and high-capacity firearm magazines.

Most of the accused face charges of mischief to property over $5,000 and possession of a weapon.

Four also face an additional charge of conspiracy to murder with one man also charged with uttering threats.
They even have a cool nickname now.

The Coutts 13: New details on the men and women arrested at border blockade
Previous criminal convictions, a willingness to die for the cause and connections to a violent insurrectionist movement.

CBC News has learned new details about some of the men and women arrested in connection with the Coutts, Alta., border blockades on Monday.

Thirteen people were charged following incidents involving physical threats to RCMP officers' safety and raids on trailers near the protest area, which resulted in the seizure of a cache of weapons and body armour.
Of the four southern Alberta men accused of conspiring to murder RCMP officers, two have ties to a man who founded a neo-fascist, white supremacist group that aims to accomplish its goals through violence.

Chris Carbert, 44, of Lethbridge, Anthony Olienick, 39, of Claresholm, Jerry Morin, 40, of Olds and Christopher Lysak, 48, of Lethbridge all face charges of conspiracy to murder, a weapons offence and mischief over $5,000.

Carbert and Lysak both have ties to Jeremy MacKenzie, the Nova Scotia founder of Diagolon, a group described by University of New Brunswick professor David Hofmann as an American-style militia movement.
The goal of the group, says Hofmann who studies far right movements, is to establish a "diagonal" white nationalist state.

Those who believe in the Diagolon movement feel a civil war is needed to create a new state that would run diagonally from Alaska, through western Canada's provinces, all the way south to Florida.

"And they want to accomplish this through violence," says Hofmann. "Their motto quite simply states gun or rope."

Two Diagolon patches were found on body armour seized by police during the execution of the Coutts search warrants.

MacKenzie is currently in Ottawa and has posted at least one video in support of the arrested Coutts protesters in the last couple of days.
I'd be surprised if there aren't a few of these guys with their own cache of weapons embedded in the Ottawa occupation.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by LordMortis »

And never forget
"Many Texans donated to this worthy cause. I am acting to protect Texas consumers so that they know where their hard-earned money is going, rather than allowing GoFundMe to divert money to another cause without the consent of Texas citizens. I will get to the bottom of this deceitful action," he (Ken Paxton) added.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Yeah, which is why the funding is being cut off. It would be far different if this were a peaceful protest, but it's morphed into something that has impacted the functioning of daily Canadian life and the functioning of a city, not for a day, but nearly a month now, which in turn has greatly affected its politics. You don't see Canadians doing the same to the U.S, demanding everyone to be sorry, so what the hell? It's become a foreign influence issue. And I do think the whole mandate thing was a guise for something more sinister.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Isgrimnur »

Rumpy wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 4:39 pm You don't see Canadians doing the same to the U.S, demanding everyone to be sorry, so what the hell?
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by LordMortis »

I hope if nothing else, Toyota remembers this when it comes to election time in Texas

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/02/15/toy ... -protests/
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by IceBear »

One of the co-founders has been arrested in Ottawa. And a Civil Liberties group is suing the federal government for implementing the Emergencies Act. I agree it was probably the nuclear option but I think that it was needed at this point nearly a month into this
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

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They can sue all they want. If anything, we need to show that we're not pushovers. And I really do feel like our niceties have been abused. Something needed to be done. Ottawa citizens want their city back. They want to be able to go outside without fear of being harassed. There is a difference between civil liberties and illegal encampment.

*sigh* Sorry guys, getting a little worked up over this.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by IceBear »

Oh I have too. If my wife has the news on I get very agitated and start swearing within minutes.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

A Canadian hero for these trying times...

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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by hepcat »

Is that Ricky LaFleur? I wonder where Julian and Bubbles are?
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Kraken »

I'm curious about the differences between Canadian and American rights to free assembly and free expression. But not curious enough to, like, google it myself.

Also, I've always been glad that Canada has a lid on its right-wing nutjobs, and I'm sorry that us foreigners are riling them up.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

I haven't looked into it deep enough, but the overall feeling is that they're pretty much the same, with minor cultural differences. Basically, don't be a troll under a bridge, and you should be Ok :D

There's a Wikipedia topic on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_o ... _in_Canada

I read a recent article about this very topic, but damned if I can remember where I saw it. But this site has a good answer:
https://www.quora.com/Who-has-more-pers ... -Americans
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Max Peck »

And of course QAnon would have to show up sooner or later.

Anti-restriction protests making life miserable, downtown Edmonton residents say
Downtown Edmonton residents are bracing for yet another weekend of snarled traffic, blaring horns and what they say are at times frightening confrontations with anti-restriction protesters.

"We don't feel safe. We feel like hostages in our own buildings," said Tammy Kobliuk, who lives on 110th Street near the convoy's main route.

While protesters in Ottawa have been settled in full-time for weeks, Edmonton's demonstrations have been less permanent, with convoys travelling through the city each weekend.

Kobliuk and other central Edmonton residents and business owners say they have seen protesters in large trucks and passenger vehicles, and on foot, descend on the core and loudly make their presence known for about eight hours each Saturday for the past three weekends.

Kobliuk and other people CBC interviewed about the weekend protests say that many of participants aren't harassing residents and businesses — but those who are have been making life difficult.
Enlarge Image

They painted a big ol' Q on one end of the flag and I'd guess that's WWG1WGA on the other (only the WGA is visible). Good thing that desecrating the flag isn't a hanging offence here, like in the USA. :wink:
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Elon Musk, who ended up donating to the Convoy, tweeted a picture comparing Justin Trudeau to Hitler. :roll: FFS!

All this over a few mandates? People are really willing to die on that hill? Do people forget that society has gone through so much worse? In both World Wars, there were restrictions, on what one could do, on how much one could eat, or where they could go, or even when. Nobody questioned it, they abided by the rules put forth, they knew that patriotically, they had to do their part. During the 1918 Pandemic even, while there was a much less concerted effort because much less was understood in early medicine, there were still mask mandates, and restrictions on where one could gather. People for the most part were terrified of the virus and were willing to do whatever it took to be safe. There was no vaccine for it either. Scientific medicine was looking in the wrong place, ie they were looking for a bacterial infection, and didn't have the means or the tools to isolate a virus (which would come much later, 1930's I believe). They had held a belief that their disease was similar to that of pneumonia. Anytime supposed vaccines came out, doses wouldn't last long because they couldn't keep up with production, because the demand to be protected was there.

But this...protesters going crazy over a few minor mandates. It's little to ask for. Nobody is actually getting their freedoms taken away with the mandates. They're just being done a little differently than what we're used to, because these are not normal circumstances! They're pandemic circumstances. People always learn to evolve and adapt. And there might be some sacrifices along the way. It's the way of life. There will always be bumps. All we ask is that we want the city and our government and our democracy back and for regular daily life to resume without fear, and without influence from foreign funds. We were doing fine before they arrived!

And there is some good news in all this. The current narrative is that tow trucks are towing trucks and RVs away and police have secured the area where the trucks have been occupied. So, it's starting to feel like this may finally be dissipating and coming to an end.
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Jaymann »

Musk has lost all credibility in the arena of public discourse.
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IceBear
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by IceBear »

Rumpy wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 3:54 pm Elon Musk, who ended up donating to the Convoy, tweeted a picture comparing Justin Trudeau to Hitler. :roll: FFS!

All this over a few mandates? People are really willing to die on that hill? Do people forget that society has gone through so much worse? In both World Wars, there were restrictions, on what one could do, on how much one could eat, or where they could go, or even when. Nobody questioned it, they abided by the rules put forth, they knew that patriotically, they had to do their part. During the 1918 Pandemic even, while there was a much less concerted effort because much less was understood in early medicine, there were still mask mandates, and restrictions on where one could gather. People for the most part were terrified of the virus and were willing to do whatever it took to be safe. There was no vaccine for it either. Scientific medicine was looking in the wrong place, ie they were looking for a bacterial infection, and didn't have the means or the tools to isolate a virus (which would come much later, 1930's I believe). They had held a belief that their disease was similar to that of pneumonia. Anytime supposed vaccines came out, doses wouldn't last long because they couldn't keep up with production, because the demand to be protected was there.

But this...protesters going crazy over a few minor mandates. It's little to ask for. Nobody is actually getting their freedoms taken away with the mandates. They're just being done a little differently than what we're used to, because these are not normal circumstances! They're pandemic circumstances. People always learn to evolve and adapt. And there might be some sacrifices along the way. It's the way of life. There will always be bumps. All we ask is that we want the city and our government and our democracy back and for regular daily life to resume without fear, and without influence from foreign funds. We were doing fine before they arrived!

And there is some good news in all this. The current narrative is that tow trucks are towing trucks and RVs away and police have secured the area where the trucks have been occupied. So, it's starting to feel like this may finally be dissipating and coming to an end.
10000000% agree with this. One thing this pandemic has made clear to me is who cares about society and who cares only about themselves. We've always had to live our lives meeting public health measures. I get so angry with these people, especially since if they'd been listening the governments have been signaling for awhile that the mandates were going away sooner rather than later (too soon imho) but of course they don't listen to mainstream media who only tell lies so maybe they really didn't know
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Re: Canada 2015-21 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

Post by Rumpy »

Yep, so very true. And another thing that it's made it more clear to me are the differences in culture. The fact that most of Canada's doubly-vaccinated, and have been proud of our vaccination rates ever since the fact that we had supply and demand issues early on due to shipping problems making us appreciate what we had. And that's the thing. We appreciate what we have and what we've been able to accomplish, and there's been more or less a consensus on that feeling throughout Canada. That's a different attitude wholesale compared to what I see with our neighbour to the south which has very polarizing views depending on the States that make it harder to be unified about.

In other news, new leaked data shows that Most donations via GoSendGo were Canadian (60%), while 37% were American, which is still quite a lot when you consider the size of the population.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/2022/0 ... adian.html
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