Octopus Overlords

Crap. Yeah to you Holman.

Both are a risk. Vorret is less of a risk. Yes you have been consistent. No that doesn't make you liberal. That is my point!

Scoop20906 wrote:Both are a risk. Vorret is less of a risk. Yes you have been consistent. No that doesn't make you liberal. That is my point!

My point is that, if I'm bad, then Vorret is no less of a risk than CR would be--Vorret and I would have been building trust all along for this Big Hitler Moment.

If I'm good, you can trust me that CR is good, and you're left acknowledging that Vorret still *might* not be.

There's no scenario in which Vorret is less of a risk than CR.

I'm waiting for votes from bb2112, El Guapo, stessier, and Vorret.

Holman wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:Both are a risk. Vorret is less of a risk. Yes you have been consistent. No that doesn't make you liberal. That is my point!

My point is that, if I'm bad, then Vorret is no less of a risk than CR would be--Vorret and I would have been building trust all along for this Big Hitler Moment.

If I'm good, you can trust me that CR is good, and you're left acknowledging that Vorret still *might* not be.

There's no scenario in which Vorret is less of a risk than CR.

This is true which means when you picked chaos this really seemed like a set up. I don't care if you've been consistent about it. You could be consistently lying, right?

It's true that I could have been consistently lying all this time, but that would require a degree of forethought (and in a totally new game) of which I doubt I'm really capable.

This game isn't Werewolf. Scans aren't public. Lynchings don't whittle the field. Special powers exist but are meant to be avoided by the good guys. I'm looking forward to the post-mortem because I can't decide whether I think this design is brilliantly frustrating or just frustrating.

If you trust me, it's because you see that I've acted to put Liberal policies on the table and to try to identify bad guy behavior. I'm not sure that there's anything I can offer to convince you that you haven't already seen.

Plus I'm about 75% thinking that all this drama is Fascist smokescreen.

By the way: according to Grund's announcement, you've already voted anyway...

Scoop20906 wrote:Dude! Are you serious?

I voted No the moment I said this Holman. I could be wrong and we have a great chance to win the game. I'd be very happy to be wrong. But if I'm right then yeah it would suck to let the fascist steal the game at the 11th hour.

I don't expect you to agree. I'm talking for the benefit of the other liberals.

Scoop20906 wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:Dude! Are you serious?

I voted No the moment I said this Holman. I could be wrong and we have a great chance to win the game. I'd be very happy to be wrong. But if I'm right then yeah it would suck to let the fascist steal the game at the 11th hour.

I don't expect you to agree. I'm talking for the benefit of the other liberals.

I certainly understand how the dynamics of the game deny you certainty. I had a scan after certain lines had been drawn, but that's just because I was lucky in the player order.

We'll see who's who soon enough. I do feel good about the chances of having at least one L in the card draw, and of course I'm 100% sure about Chaosraven.

All we need is for the Liberals to vote Yes. Scoop is clearly not a Liberal. We'll be fine.

Ack, honestly, I kinda knew you we're gonna pick CR but I was still hoping you'd pick me to make my choice easier.

Yaddi yaddi yadda we passed alot of L policies and you're probably as liberal as it gets (next to me anyways) , I dunno.

THis one is hard I'm going to take a step back real quick and reanalyse before voting and making a mistake, we're neck and neck, can'T screw it up.

Vorret, I didn't pick you because there's still a 5% chance that you're evil. (And if you are: Bravo! You've played it brilliantly.)

With CR, the scan proves good.

Scoop20906 wrote:

Remus West wrote:So, Scoop, if you vote no here are you intending to go to another flip or are you intending to vote for my ticket (since you proclaimed Moliete Fascist)?

Do you feel comfortable with this ticket?

More comfortable than I would with any you are likely to suggest at this point.

Really, if YOU look at it, the next President would be Moliere - whom you have declared Fascist. After that would be me. So, either you vote yes on this ticket or on mine or risk another flip for the game. Which is it you're trying to accomplish here? Did I suddenly do something that has made your opinion of me solidify to the point you want to risk the game on me rather than Holman?

All depends what Holman passes me.

Assuming of course, this passes

And if you are L, Scoop, you may have fucked us by voting no.

All it takes is one nonfascist to screw this up.

Scoop20906 wrote:Both are a risk. Vorret is less of a risk. Yes you have been consistent. No that doesn't make you liberal. That is my point!

Vorret is a bigger risk by far - IF Holman is liberal. If Holman is Fascist then he would have gone the popular Vorret route in my opinion. Highest odds are of his drawing FFL and a Fascist Holman would simply pass FF along to anyone he gets elected with and thereby win the game. I'm not overly worried about a Fascist President selecting Hitler as his running mate because he doesn't need Hitler in office to win at this point. He only needs a patsy to set up and pass a F policy then refuse to veto. Easy peasy.

stessier wrote:All we need is for the Liberals to vote Yes. Scoop is clearly not a Liberal. We'll be fine.

I finally agree with stessier on something.

bb2112 and Vorret: time to vote!

Grundbegriff wrote:bb2112 and Vorret: time to vote!

No and Yes. Done.

Well I certainly hope I'm wrong.

Do not read too much into this comment: from the catbird seat, I'm not sure how this game is going to end.

Without confirmation of the scans and no kills, the dynamics are impossible to know with any certainty. And the fear of Hitler is strong, which can ruin the most rational plan.

Yes, so at some point you just have to trust something. I chose to trust Holman. If I'm wrong, we lose. But if you trust him, Chaos has to be the choice...there is no way around it. And Chaos is extremely unlikely to be Hitler. Hitler doesn't call out El Gaupo. Which is why Scoop's comments are amusing rather than troubling. I guess Moliere was was the Liberal after all...which makes sense based on his willingness to chose Vorret as the out order President. There is still a very small chance that Vorret is Hitler and Remus is Liberal, but I tend to doubt it.

The game started a month ago today. Let's finish it off right now with a Liberal win.

I agree but I hope everyone realizes this is risky.

The election of Holman/Chaosraven succeeds on a vote of 5 to 3 with 1 abstention.

bb2112 ABSENT
Chaosraven YES
El Guapo NO
Holman YES
Molière YES
Remus West YES
Scoop20906 NO
stessier YES
Vorret NO

President Holman may draw three cards when he is ready. The government will then remain silent until Chancellor Chaosraven takes action.

I have chosen in this instance to take action since bb2112's vote, whatever it may be, does not determine the outcome, and since moving the game forward seems more important than waiting.

Huh, Vorret was Hitler.

stessier wrote:was

Game's not over.

stessier wrote:Huh, Vorret was Hitler.

No I think he just agreed with me this is the wrong ticket or I have totally misread this game.

I guess we will know soon.

We'll see the outcome whether I was right or not to vote no.

Scoop20906 wrote:

stessier wrote:Huh, Vorret was Hitler.

No I think he just agreed with me this is the wrong ticket or I have totally misread this game.

I guess we will know soon.

It is comical how fascists continue to act all innocent right up to the very end.

Being handed two Fascist gives me no choice.

FASCIST POLICY.

Of course you had a choice...you could have vetoed.

stessier wrote:Of course you had a choice...you could have vetoed.

Pretty sure he's messing with you, Grund makes the annoucements.

Yep. Liar liar lair

Vorret wrote:

stessier wrote:Of course you had a choice...you could have vetoed.

Pretty sure he's messing with you, Grund makes the annoucements.

Nope, Chancellors announce their own policies.... been that way the whole game.

Veto Power

If five Fascist Policies are enacted, then the Chancellor gains a veto over the pair of policies provided secretly by the President: rather than have to enact one of them, the Chancellor may-- only with the President's concurrence-- reject them both and do nothing. If this happens, the game proceeds as normal but the count of failed elections increases by 1.

Chaosraven, we can use veto to skip this policy. We both have to agree, and of course I agree to it right now.

I drew F-F-F. (Grund tells me that a reshuffle occurred in the midst of the draw because we got down to 2 cards.) I had no choice but to pass F-F to CR, but the veto cancels it.

Incidentally, if CR and I agree to the veto, that's new information: everyone now has 100% confirmation that we are good (and bb2112 and El G are bad); if either of us were bad, he would decline the veto.

This is exactly what I warned against. Lying!!!!

Just marveling at the math....if Vorret has been telling the truth, the chances of F F F are remarkably low.