Octopus Overlords

stessier wrote:I think this choice was hasty and I'm going to vote Reject - we need more discussion.

I left this message FOUR days ago:

Moliere wrote:So, is there a group that would be accepted by a majority vote?

I asked multiple times for input. How long am I supposed to leave this game on hold for you to have more discussions?

Since we specifically said that Remus wasn't available until today and that we wanted to hear from him, longer than 20 minutes after his post might be nice.

Moliere wrote:I understand the issue with ElG, Chaos, and RW. Can someone remind me why Holman is supposed to be Evil. I don't remember him involved in any action besides regular votes.

Did you care to get an answer to this from anyone other than Holman himself (who didn't really say why people think he is evil, only when stessier started suggesting he is evil) before leaving the question behind? Oops, no, you did not. Must have really been itching at you to know.

Remus West wrote:

Moliere wrote:I understand the issue with ElG, Chaos, and RW. Can someone remind me why Holman is supposed to be Evil. I don't remember him involved in any action besides regular votes.

Did you care to get an answer to this from anyone other than Holman himself (who didn't really say why people think he is evil, only when stessier started suggesting he is evil) before leaving the question behind? Oops, no, you did not. Must have really been itching at you to know.

That question was left Friday evening. Again, it's been almost 3 days and no one besides Holman bothered to answer. I didn't leave anything behind. It's b.s. to say that I rushed the decision or that I didn't ask for input on specific people, or that I didn't propose possible group combinations to get everyone's opinion. I did all of these things over the last 4 days. If you don't like the group then Reject it and wait for Silent Scoop to offer something else.

Moliere wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Moliere wrote:I understand the issue with ElG, Chaos, and RW. Can someone remind me why Holman is supposed to be Evil. I don't remember him involved in any action besides regular votes.

Did you care to get an answer to this from anyone other than Holman himself (who didn't really say why people think he is evil, only when stessier started suggesting he is evil) before leaving the question behind? Oops, no, you did not. Must have really been itching at you to know.

That question was left Friday evening. Again, it's been almost 3 days and no one besides Holman bothered to answer. I didn't leave anything behind. It's b.s. to say that I rushed the decision or that I didn't ask for input on specific people, or that I didn't propose possible group combinations to get everyone's opinion. I did all of these things over the last 4 days. If you don't like the group then Reject it and wait for Silent Scoop to offer something else.

Said nothing about the group. Implied something about you. You asked a question. Got a partial answer from someone, presumably not the target of the question, then moved along without expressing any concern over the question not being answered.

For what its worth, I suspect Holman because he left himself off his own party when proclaiming an effort to make the most likely good party. Makes it look like he thinks of himself as not good. I'm willing to accept his self assessment and never vote him into a party again.

Also, I already voted to reject. Hopefully we will get to see what Scoop puts together.

Again - 4 days when we specifically said we were waiting for everyone. We more or less just stopped last Friday by mutual consent. It wasn't hidden.

I'm not sure that my giving an answer helps anything, given that certain players are so oddly and without foundation committed to the idea that I'm evil.

The Mastermind aspect of the game is certainly difficult because we don't have enough chances to reliably "test" without losing.

Moliere wrote:After weighing all the comments I am going to go with this group for the next quest.

 Moliere
Scoop20906
Holman
Isgrimnur
bb2112 
 

Since all of the scanners are unreliable I am not including any of them.

I will vote to accept this team because it leaves off members of tainted Quest 2 and also avoids the players who have conspicuously and without evidence accused others of being evil.

Holman was not the only one to answer. And I think your waiting 3 days is fine. Although I am not going to vote for your party.

Remus West wrote: Said nothing about the group. Implied something about you. You asked a question. Got a partial answer from someone, presumably not the target of the question, then moved along without expressing any concern over the question not being answered.

For what its worth, I suspect Holman because he left himself off his own party when proclaiming an effort to make the most likely good party. Makes it look like he thinks of himself as not good. I'm willing to accept his self assessment and never vote him into a party again.

As I've explained three or four times, I left myself off because a successful quest requires not only goodness but acceptance by the group. I assumed that it was SOP to leave out members of a tainted group until further scans had confirmed some things. I have since learned otherwise, I guess.

Honestly, I have no idea why this was even controversial at the time.

stessier wrote:I think this choice was hasty and I'm going to vote Reject - we need more discussion.

My thought is that we need to test someone from the El Guapo, RMC, stessier, Holman group now...but not Holman. We know 2 in that group are Bad, but that also means 2 are good and we can't win on the last day without 1 of the two in the Group. We can have 1 bad now and I think it is better to test one of them now rather than later. Maybe. I think. It was a thought I was playing with on Friday and I really stopped thinking about it once I learned Remus wouldn't be back until today. Thoughts?

I think this is a good plan. Switch out either Moliere or Isgrimnur for one of the first group of four. Preferably Igrimnur, but either would be good.

I still like my group from earlier, but since nobody else has the cojones to draw up a group of their own, I expect we will argue vaguely about it for a long time until the quest organizer gets frustrated and throws out a group of their own. Oh wait...

Moliere wrote:After weighing all the comments I am going to go with this group for the next quest.

 Moliere
Scoop20906
Holman
Isgrimnur
bb2112 
 

Since all of the scanners are unreliable I am not including any of them.

I strongly urge everyone that is good, vote this quest down. If you are bad, please vote for it so we know who you are.

Chaosraven, Scoop20906

I find it interesting who is announcing the best plan is to reject this party.

I'm voting to accept based almost solely on their recommendation to reject.

stessier REJECT
RMC REJECT
Holman ACCEPT
Chaosraven ACCEPT
Isgrimnur ACCEPT
Moliere ACCEPT
Scoop20906 ACCEPT
bb2112 REJECT
Remus West REJECT
El Guapo ACCEPT

ACCEPT: 6
REJECT: 4

The party is approved! Quest #4 is underway!

Fleece... or get fleeced!

(If you're an evil quester, PM me!)

Really? Sigh.

Cross yer friggin' fingers.

Noonan.

NOONAN!

Grundbegriff wrote:stessier REJECT
RMC REJECT
Holman ACCEPT
Chaosraven ACCEPT
Isgrimnur ACCEPT
Moliere ACCEPT
Scoop20906 ACCEPT
bb2112 REJECT
Remus West REJECT
El Guapo ACCEPT

ACCEPT: 6
REJECT: 4

The party is approved! Quest #4 is underway!

Fleece... or get fleeced!

(If you're an evil quester, PM me!)

Wait, if we have 2 evils in the party, isn't it game over? Does this mean we don't have 2 evils in the questing party?

They sought the fleece, they sought the grail. But 'twas not to be; their fate was fell.
Camelot is fallen, is fallen, is fallen
Camelot is fallen, to rise no more



Congratulations, Team Mordred!

Before we expose all roles, Evils please offer a guess about the identity of Merlin. That way, we'll also know what would've happened if Good had managed to win three quests!

Evil dramatis personae:
Holman: Minion of Mordred
Chaosraven: Minion of Mordred
Moliere: Morgana
El Guapo: Mordred

Woo hoo!

You will all be surprised to learn that I was Evil Evil Evil.

Was Merlin that pesky Stessier? IIRC, he lumped all but one of the evil players together (as Merlin would) pretty early on.

bb2112 wrote:Analysis to follow:

Team Evil:
Holman
Chaosraven
El Guapo
Moliere/Isgrimnur (I think Issy, but not 100% sure)

Dammit!

I would be shocked if Merlin was anyone other than Remus.

Where does one go to get a crown made around here?

Sorry, I just read we lost not what we were doing..

Ok-- so let's not allow all Evils to guess at Merlin before confirming his identity....

whew!
I almost cost Team Evil the game when I panicked and rejected Isgrimnur's group. I didn't think the vote would be that close and thought the Evils would be outed by who accepted the group selection. It definitely changes the dynamic when you can't communicate with your team members while also knowing who they are.

Moliere wrote:whew!
I almost cost Team Evil the game when I panicked and rejected Isgrimnur's group. I didn't think the vote would be that close and thought the Evils would be outed by who accepted the group selection. It definitely changes the dynamic when you can't communicate with your team members while also knowing who they are.

It's fine - and you got to make up for it by nominating the winning party.

Oops..

Observations on strategy, tactics, the Merlin/Percival challenge, etc...? Remus-- what were your thoughts about Mordred?

Comparisons to Secret Hitler?

Grundbegriff wrote:Observations on strategy, tactics, the Merlin/Percival challenge, etc...? Remus-- what were your thoughts about Mordred?

Comparisons to Secret Hitler?

due to El Guapo's lie regarding his scan I knew him right away. I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously got well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

I think this tilts a bit toward evil but I like it better than SH.

Remus West wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:Observations on strategy, tactics, the Merlin/Percival challenge, etc...? Remus-- what were your thoughts about Mordred?

Comparisons to Secret Hitler?

due to El Guapo's lie regarding his scan I knew him right away. I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously got well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

I think this tilts a bit toward evil but I like it better than SH.

Yeah that was one of the main reasons I did the scan the way I did. At first I was concerned about Merlin knowing that I was lying, but then I realized as long as I do it in a way that no one other than Merlin can be certain that I am lying, then that's a feature not a bug.

Relatedly I think it was a big break not only for Team Evil to start with the scan, but for Modred specifically to have it, because no other member of Team Evil can use the scan as a merlin detector.

Remus West wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously not well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

Having watched it play out, I see that the main task of Percival, whether he solves the Morgana/Merlin puzzle or not, is to try to seem like Merlin in order to give Merlin cover. At least it can be a coin flip at the end. Of course, Percy lacks Merlin's insight, so this can backfire badly. But it's still necessary ina game where discerning Merlin is a game-winner.

Incidentally... yes, evil might be willing to pass the Lady scan to good!

I don't think I was a very effective baddie. I drew suspicion early on, and the only strategy I could think of was to try to put distance between myself and El G/Chaosraven after that scan. I hoped to make it seem like we were on different teams. If we could have communicated, I would have suggested that Chaos use his scan to declare me Evil.

To the contrary, I thought your rebuttal of Remus was pretty persuasive. Not to him, of course, since he knew you were a weevil and had to hold his ground.

Grundbegriff wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously not well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

Having watched it play out, I see that the main task of Percival, whether he solves the Morgana/Merlin puzzle or not, is to try to seem like Merlin in order to give Merlin cover. At least it can be a coin flip at the end. Of course, Percy lacks Merlin's insight, so this can backfire badly. But it's still necessary ina game where discerning Merlin is a game-winner.

Yeah, I had no idea who was whom, until a certain point when Remus seemed to know the good guys. But then it was too late, and I couldn't come out and say so and so was evil becaue then I might give away Remus, and Merlin would never revel himself, since he has no protection. <sigh> I had no idea how to play it.

RMC wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously not well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

Having watched it play out, I see that the main task of Percival, whether he solves the Morgana/Merlin puzzle or not, is to try to seem like Merlin in order to give Merlin cover. At least it can be a coin flip at the end. Of course, Percy lacks Merlin's insight, so this can backfire badly. But it's still necessary ina game where discerning Merlin is a game-winner.

Yeah, I had no idea who was whom, until a certain point when Remus seemed to know the good guys. But then it was too late, and I couldn't come out and say so and so was evil becaue then I might give away Remus, and Merlin would never revel himself, since he has no protection. <sigh> I had no idea how to play it.

Proclaim yourself Merlin and who you think the Evils are. If you had it right I would have been all over supporting you.

Remus West wrote:

RMC wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Grundbegriff wrote:I think he used it as a way to find me though so I tried to hedge but obviously not well enough. I really needed folks to talk more and suggest more "I think X is Evil" to help me blend a bit.

Having watched it play out, I see that the main task of Percival, whether he solves the Morgana/Merlin puzzle or not, is to try to seem like Merlin in order to give Merlin cover. At least it can be a coin flip at the end. Of course, Percy lacks Merlin's insight, so this can backfire badly. But it's still necessary ina game where discerning Merlin is a game-winner.

Yeah, I had no idea who was whom, until a certain point when Remus seemed to know the good guys. But then it was too late, and I couldn't come out and say so and so was evil becaue then I might give away Remus, and Merlin would never revel himself, since he has no protection. <sigh> I had no idea how to play it.

Proclaim yourself Merlin and who you think the Evils are. If you had it right I would have been all over supporting you.

And if I had it wrong and Molaire supported me and opposed you, then who should I trust? I had no way to know that. And I really had no idea who was good/bad. I was following your lead, but by the time I trusted you it was way to late. And I was afraid that I had tipped my hand as it was by supporting you in the way I did. I figured you would have gotten assassinated if I tried to come out as Merlin and anyone supported me. Especially too much so, as the only ones who KNEW anything were me, Merlin, and the two scanners, and all of team evil.

I was teasing. I have no idea what I'd have done. This game seems to require everyone participate for Good to have a shot. Passive participation hurts team good a lot.

Remus West wrote:I was teasing. I have no idea what I'd have done. This game seems to require everyone participate for Good to have a shot. Passive participation hurts team good a lot.

Actually your thought did appeal to me, but I was not sure how to go about it. Declaring Merlin would be bad, as they would not believe me, right? But coming forth with the fact that I know who is Merlin and who is evil might not have been a bad play, right?

Just trying to think of other ways to have played it out.

Maybe. Did you have a list of "Evil" players you could have come out with early? IDK, there are way too many options to declare one the exact way to play it.