Abortion news and discussion

[Smoove_B]

I know I shouldn't be amazed at how quickly things are changing, but this is really unsettling.

Host: “What would you tell a teenage woman who gets pregnant that, by state law, she has to carry through and become a Mother?”

Gov. McMaster: “Don’t get pregnant. And if you do, there are consequences for actions.”

[Isgrimnur]

Yeah, that's true. I've honestly never been a position to argue "legally pregnant", only trying to educate on how to figure out when/how far along. It's a fair distinction.

That was what I was getting at. I knew the rough estimation method but 6 weeks, 3 days? That sort of precision? And for a 10-year old? Come on. There is no way anything there is accurate. They were straddling a line and didn't want to take the risk. I get it but it just stood out as very artificial.

Presumably they calculate from the date she was raped to get that type of accuracy.

It doesn't say she was raped.

We letting 10yos consent now?

[LawBeefaroni]

Yeah, that's true. I've honestly never been a position to argue "legally pregnant", only trying to educate on how to figure out when/how far along. It's a fair distinction.

That was what I was getting at. I knew the rough estimation method but 6 weeks, 3 days? That sort of precision? And for a 10-year old? Come on. There is no way anything there is accurate. They were straddling a line and didn't want to take the risk. I get it but it just stood out as very artificial.

Presumably they calculate from the date she was raped to get that type of accuracy.

It doesn't say she was raped.

She's 10. At the very minimum it was statutory.

[Alefroth]

Well, Biden called for restricting the filibuster to allow for a Roe codification. Feels a day late and a dollar short, but it's progress at least.

All you people wanting to break the filibuster do realize that with a Republican Senate and President, you get a nationwide ban on abortion, right? Do you really want to go there?

With a Republican Senate and President, we get a nationwide ban on abortion.

[LawBeefaroni]

Well, Biden called for restricting the filibuster to allow for a Roe codification. Feels a day late and a dollar short, but it's progress at least.

All you people wanting to break the filibuster do realize that with a Republican Senate and President, you get a nationwide ban on abortion, right? Do you really want to go there?

With a Republican Senate and President, we get a nationwide ban on abortion.

It's unbelievable. Even 85%+ Catholic nations like Ireland and Mexico don't have federal bans. .

[hepcat]

They're not third world theocracies like the U.S.A. though.

[Smoove_B]

Speaking of which:

Everybody in blue states that was like "phew, at least I'll be okay here on Abortion Island" after Roe was overturned: tomorrow a federal district court is hearing arguments re: an Arizona law that if upheld would establish all fertilized embryos as "persons."

Link to case

Also, in PA:

Urgent! Last night, while you were sleeping, the Senate of Pennsylvania advanced language to ban abortions in Pennsylvania. Contact your legislators to demand that they protect the rights of women and pregnant people in Pennsylvania and vote NO on SB 106.

[malchior]

This is a smart calculated risk by the GOP in PA. They are trying to drive turnout for Mastriano and Oz. If they lose, it's just the status quo. If they win, they get another huge victory for their christofascism dreams and will inject talk amongst MSM stenographers that PA isn't purple and evidence that they are the real America.

[Smoove_B]

Biden: "We need 2 additional pro-choice senators & a pro-choice House to codify Roe as federal law. Your vote can make that a reality. I know it's frustrating & it made a lot of people very angry. But the truth is this... women of American can determine the outcome of this issue"

[malchior]

I mean great for finally coming up with a strategy that they could message pretty clearly. As usual well behind the ball but that's to be expected. In any case, this very might be the only way forward to solve this in a short-term fashion. They need to prepare to deal with a reality that there are heavy odds they'll lose the House. In other words, they need to come up with a long-term strategy - like the GOP did.

[Octavious]

This is a smart calculated risk by the GOP in PA. They are trying to drive turnout for Mastriano and Oz. If they lose, it's just the status quo. If they win, they get another huge victory for their christofascism dreams and will inject talk amongst MSM stenographers that PA isn't purple and evidence that they are the real America.

Oz looks pretty dead in the water if the polls are accurate. Mastriano on the other hand isn't really that far behind. We're 100% fucked if he wins. He already said he would just toss out the results of an election. And god knows we don't have a court system that would stop that nonsense. So ya... Things are great.

[pr0ner]

Well, Biden called for restricting the filibuster to allow for a Roe codification. Feels a day late and a dollar short, but it's progress at least.

All you people wanting to break the filibuster do realize that with a Republican Senate and President, you get a nationwide ban on abortion, right? Do you really want to go there?

With a Republican Senate and President, we get a nationwide ban on abortion.

It's unbelievable. Even 85%+ Catholic nations like Ireland and Mexico don't have federal bans. .

Poland does.

[malchior]

This is a smart calculated risk by the GOP in PA. They are trying to drive turnout for Mastriano and Oz. If they lose, it's just the status quo. If they win, they get another huge victory for their christofascism dreams and will inject talk amongst MSM stenographers that PA isn't purple and evidence that they are the real America.

Oz looks pretty dead in the water if the polls are accurate. Mastriano on the other hand isn't really that far behind.

I've seen this and I think it defies the odds. You could have mixed-ticket voting especially since PA got rid of explicit party-line voting to boot. It's true that Oz isn't MAGA enough probably but he'll still be the R if there is a heavy #MAGA GOP turnout.

We're 100% fucked if he wins. He already said he would just toss out the results of an election. And god knows we don't have a court system that would stop that nonsense. So ya... Things are great.

It's definitely grim.

[malchior]

Well, Biden called for restricting the filibuster to allow for a Roe codification. Feels a day late and a dollar short, but it's progress at least.

All you people wanting to break the filibuster do realize that with a Republican Senate and President, you get a nationwide ban on abortion, right? Do you really want to go there?

With a Republican Senate and President, we get a nationwide ban on abortion.

It's unbelievable. Even 85%+ Catholic nations like Ireland and Mexico don't have federal bans. .

Poland does.

With the caveat that Poland allows exceptions to the abortion ban. That's still more liberal than the hardline bans we are seeing snapped into place in some places.

[Smoove_B]

Going the old Executive Order route. Why this wasn't done 37 seconds after the Supreme Court decision, I have no idea.

Today I signed an Executive Order to protect the reproductive rights of women in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's extreme decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

It formalizes the actions I announced right after the decision and will add new measures to protect women's health.

-Access to abortion, including medication abortion
-Access to contraception
-The right to emergency medical care under law
-Providers and the clinics you rely on
-Privacy and sensitive health information
-Access to accurate information

[malchior]

Going the old Executive Order route. Why this wasn't done 37 seconds after the Supreme Court decision, I have no idea.

I'll take that as sarcasm. If not, I think we have good guesses at why...

Edit: I will say the best time to do something like this is lunch-time on a Friday. It is a very media savvy way of getting the message out about your EOs.

[Unagi]

I don’t understand. Will this allow a clinic in Texas to perform an abortion or no?

[Zarathud]

Listened to an attorney on NPR explaining his 50 year crusade to stop abortion. The other side has been preparing for years, and thinking ahead to take advantage of each crack they can find. If you don’t think things through, you just give them more footholds. Scary.

[LawBeefaroni]

I don’t understand. Will this allow a clinic in Texas to perform an abortion or no?

No.


It tries to being federal powers to bear to protect things like abortion pills (FDA), patient privacy (FTC) and protecting providers in other states. But seeing as how the SC so easily brushed aside the EPA, I'm sure the zealots have a plan for this.


Basic explainer here.

[Unagi]

Ok. I didn’t think so.
Thanks for the link.

[Smoove_B]

What's going on in OHIO?

Ohio Representative Click (HB 704) has introduced a bill that would effectively ban IVF, as well as various forms of birth control, on top of being extremely broad and vague.

Apologies for the alarm. Read more here:

Ohio House Republicans introduced a new bill Monday that physicians worry would ban in vitro fertilization (IVF).

H.B. 704, sponsored by state Rep. Gary Click, a Republican from Vickery, would recognize "personhood" from the moment of conception.

"Nothing in this section shall be interpreted in any manner that would endanger the life of a mother," the three-sentence bill stated.

...

In H.B. 598, the total abortion ban that many Republicans are expecting to go into place in the winter, specifies that an "unborn child" refers to an "individual organism of the species homo sapiens from fertilization until live birth."

"House Bill 598 may erase the dreams of many patients of becoming parents through IVF or other reproductive technologies," Dr. Thomas Burwinkel, an OB/GYN specializing in IVF, said during opponent testimony on May 26.

Most embryo created for IVF specifically will not survive to be implanted, Burwinkel said.

"The definition of “unborn child” contained in the bill leaves us to question if discarding unused embryos would be considered a criminal act," he said.

Some of the embryos are non-viable, and thus discarded. Under this bill, that could be considered an abortion, the doctor continued.

Note:

The three-sentence bill, dubbed “The Personhood Act,” does not specify what “conception” means—whether it happens at fertilization or implantation—leaving in doubt the status of certain contraceptives such as Plan B.

They're cranking out stuff like this covering various issues to see what sticks, intentionally being vague and potentially confusing. And in the meantime, it's going to cause strife for businesses or organizations involved in doing anything related to abortion that are afraid of lawsuits. It's all part of their strategy now.

[LawBeefaroni]

They're cranking out stuff like this covering various issues to see what sticks, intentionally being vague and potentially confusing. And in the meantime, it's going to cause strife for businesses or organizations involved in doing anything related to abortion that are afraid of lawsuits. It's all part of their strategy now.

Let me fix that for you:

And in the meantime, it's going to cause strife for businesses or organizations involved in doing anything related to abortion women's health that are afraid of lawsuits.

And it's very much working as intended.

[Smoove_B]

That's unfortunately a reasonable correction.

[Zaxxon]

[stessier]

[waitingtoconnect]

Quickening is when a pregnant person starts to feel their baby's movement in their uterus (womb). It feels like flutters, bubbles or tiny pulses. Quickening happens around 16 to 20 weeks in pregnancy, but some people may feel it sooner or later.

This is when people leading into the 19th and early 20th century believed the baby became alive and human.

In Judaism, the fetus is not considered to have a human soul until it is safely outside of the woman, is viable, and has taken its first breath.(Genesis 2:7) The fetus is considered valuable property of the woman and not a human life while in the womb (Exodus 21:22–23).

This belief stems from the fact that pregnancy in pre modern times was incredibly dangerous with a high probability of death for the woman.

Even the Catholic Church did not begin vigorously opposing abortion until the 19th century.

Pope Pius IX (in his 1869 bull, Apostolicae Sedis) instituted a Church policy labeling all abortion as homicide and condemning abortion regardless of the stage of pregnancy.

So the new anti abortionists are neither projecting the founders wishes nor protecting tradition. No abortion from conception is modern in Judeo-christian thinking.

[Isgrimnur]

[Kraken]

The fetus gains a soul only when it starts paying Social Security taxes.

[LawBeefaroni]

The fetus gains a soul only when it starts paying Social Security taxes.

It was originally called Soulcial Security for that exact reason. Over time it was shortened.

[LawBeefaroni]

Quickening is when a pregnant person starts to feel their baby's movement in their uterus (womb). It feels like flutters, bubbles or tiny pulses. Quickening happens around 16 to 20 weeks in pregnancy, but some people may feel it sooner or later.

This is when people leading into the 19th and early 20th century believed the baby became alive and human.

In Judaism, the fetus is not considered to have a human soul until it is safely outside of the woman, is viable, and has taken its first breath.(Genesis 2:7) The fetus is considered valuable property of the woman and not a human life while in the womb (Exodus 21:22–23).

This belief stems from the fact that pregnancy in pre modern times was incredibly dangerous with a high probability of death for the woman.

Even the Catholic Church did not begin vigorously opposing abortion until the 19th century.

Pope Pius IX (in his 1869 bull, Apostolicae Sedis) instituted a Church policy labeling all abortion as homicide and condemning abortion regardless of the stage of pregnancy.

So the new anti abortionists are neither projecting the founders wishes nor protecting tradition. No abortion from conception is modern in Judeo-christian thinking.

Wait wait wait, you mean someone is misrepresenting The Word for their own purposes?

[Skinypupy]

The fetus gains a soul only when it starts paying Social Security taxes.

It was originally called Soulcial Security for that exact reason. Over time it was shortened.

[LawBeefaroni]

Pregnant Texas driver in carpool lane claims fetus as passenger. Can o' worms opened.

"If we're talking about a fetus being a person, there's a lot of other rights that attach to being a person that will be litigated in the courts, such as, does my fetus qualify for a tax deduction? Does my fetus qualify for citizenship? Does my fetus qualify for child support?" she said. "These are all issues that are going to be raised and probably litigated in the courts."

Unfortunately for Bottone, her reasoning didn't convince the officers on scene, she said.

"He kind of just brushed me off and asked me to go to the other officer to get my citation," she said. The other officer said similar things and told her, "Honestly if you go and fight this I'm sure it'll get dropped."

[Smoove_B]

Following up:

Re the rape case of the 10-year-old Ohio girl:

Left: WSJ Edit Page yesterday calls it a 'fanciful tale'

Right: Columbus Dispatch today reports arrest of suspect

[Unagi]

I sat for a minutes trying to figure out why one story was being labelled as ‘left wing’ and the other story being a ‘right wing’ reply or something. It made no sense.

Then it clicked:

Left and right still might just mean left and right.

[LawBeefaroni]

Fox News immediately pivoted from "it's a lie, there was no rape!" to "rapist is an immigrant!"


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-1 ... ice-source

[Hipolito]

In related story, Gym Jordan continues to earn his name.

GOP Rep. Jim Jordan deletes tweet calling the story of a 10-year-old girl being raped 'another lie' after Ohio authorities charged a man in the case
https://news.yahoo.com/gop-rep-jim-jord ... 58806.html

Incidentally, there's just a few hours left to buy the itch.io Indie Bundle for Abortion Funds. I've found these itch.io bundles to be a good way to donate to causes without landing on charity mailing lists. And you get some games too.

[Smoove_B]

In case you're wondering what the plan is

Indiana AG now says they are looking into the doctor

[malchior]

They're now blaming this on Biden's border policies. This country keeps finding new ways to look for rock bottom. Politicizing the rape of a 10 year old?!

[Smoove_B]

As awful as that is (though completely predictable), the idea that they're circulating the doctor's name and face is starting to get noticed now this morning. I'm sure they have totally innocent reasoning for doing that and that they don't in any way want any of their viewers to do anything with this very specific information.

[Alefroth]

So in ideal GOPland, the child would be forced to give birth, then the baby would be deported.