Abortion news and discussion

[Unagi]

I’m fucking infuriated by this.
-Everyone- should be, we are watching in real time how abortion laws are absolute horror.

I can’t imagine what this woman and anyone that cares about her is going through with this complete bullshit.

I can’t imagine any wanting to raise a family in Texas (or any state that is walking down this path).

I’m not being dramatic, I’m shocked we aren’t seeing even republican families making massive efforts to move.

[LordMortis]

I can't see how any college age women go to school in these states, and with no college age women how any college age heterosexual men not in a committed relationship go to school in these states. Of course, with the war on education, the programming might be strong in the youth, making things more miserable when the normal animal urges take control of their young presence.

[stessier]

I have two daughters and one is entering college next year. This has been on my mind a lot. Due to our location, she's only applying to schools in SC, NC, and GA - none of which have good policies, but all of which are affordable with the state scholarships we get. It's a really crummy situation.

[$iljanus]

How can any OB-GYN practice under these conditions? (from a NYT article)

His appeal to the Texas Supreme Court in Ms. Cox’s case followed his letter to three Houston hospitals where he said Dr. Karsan is authorized to admit patients and could perform the abortion, warning them that the judge’s order would not shield them from eventual prosecution or civil lawsuits.

Lawyers for Dr. Karsan have said in legal filings that she believes her patient’s abortion is medically necessary to preserve her health and future fertility.
But in his letter, Mr. Paxton warned the order would not constrain state officials or private citizens from filing criminal or civil lawsuits against the hospital or others, such as Ms. Cox’s husband, who might help her obtain an abortion.

He reiterated that position in his filings to the Texas Supreme Court.

“Nothing will prevent enforcement of Texas’s civil and criminal penalties once the T.R.O. erroneously prohibiting enforcement is vacated,” the filings from his office read.

He’s like a mob boss making threats. You can’t practice medicine under threat and it’s tragic enough when you discover that your pregnancy isn’t viable but to have to go through the legal system to have an abortion and live with the possibility of a lawsuit even if the court approves is just needless cruelty.

[Smoove_B]

Apparently it's also happening right now in Kentucky:

A pregnant woman in Kentucky filed a lawsuit Friday demanding the right to an abortion, the second legal challenge in days to sweeping abortion bans that have taken hold in more than a dozen U.S. states since Roe v. Wade was overturned last year.

The suit, filed in state court in Louisville, says Kentucky’s near-total prohibition of abortion violates the plaintiff’s rights to privacy and self-determination under the state constitution.

The plaintiff, identified as Jane Doe, is about eight weeks pregnant and she wants to have an abortion in Kentucky but cannot legally do so because of the state’s ban, the suit said. She is seeking class-action status to include other Kentuckians who are or will become pregnant and want to have an abortion.

[Isgrimnur]

I applaud the brave women that are bringing these lawsuits. Obviously they have the means that someone could get them over state lines to resolve their personal issue, but they're choosing to stand and fight against their state governments.

[GreenGoo]

People are going to start dying over this, and it's not going to be the pregnant women. Or not only them. And people were worried that Sharia law was going to take hold in the US.

Wtf is going on down there?

[Smoove_B]

Wtf is going on down there?

The religious wack-jobs have decided now is the time for a full-court press on democracy. I wish they were instead being told it's time to join their god on a spaceship disguised as a comet zooming close to earth.

[El Guapo]

Just saw a breaking news item that the woman in question is going to travel out of state to have the procedure done. Presumably driven by medical necessity.

You figure that probably will bring an end to the legal proceedings, though appeals courts do sometimes issue decisions on otherwise moot matters if they're "likely to recur", so still possible that there could be a ruling on the merits here (for good or ill).

[Zarathud]

Anyone who would force a woman to have a Trisomy baby is uncaring and spiteful. And supports their personal principles over reality and suffering.

[Unagi]

She should sue the state for injury and trauma.

[Daehawk]

This country hates women. Its clear to see in everything. I hope people are tired enough of the BS from the GOP to get out and vote against them this coming election.There should be more good and sensible people in this country than stupid and hateful ones.

I saw a video from the 80s of teens like I was having fun and celebrating stuff and cant believe they could be the same ones voting for asshats.

[stessier]

Just saw a breaking news item that the woman in question is going to travel out of state to have the procedure done. Presumably driven by medical necessity.

You figure that probably will bring an end to the legal proceedings, though appeals courts do sometimes issue decisions on otherwise moot matters if they're "likely to recur", so still possible that there could be a ruling on the merits here (for good or ill).

The original Roe v Wade was this way, wasn't it? I would think a similar argument could be made that we need a ruling as future cases will also be moot before a court can work through the full appeals process.

[El Guapo]

Just saw a breaking news item that the woman in question is going to travel out of state to have the procedure done. Presumably driven by medical necessity.

You figure that probably will bring an end to the legal proceedings, though appeals courts do sometimes issue decisions on otherwise moot matters if they're "likely to recur", so still possible that there could be a ruling on the merits here (for good or ill).

The original Roe v Wade was this way, wasn't it? I would think a similar argument could be made that we need a ruling as future cases will also be moot before a court can work through the full appeals process.

Yeah, that's true - the baby was born before Roe v. Wade was handed down.

[Smoove_B]

Kate Cox will be leaving TX to have an abortion. Can't wait to see how long it takes for Paxton to try and throw her in jail afterwards.

"Due to the ongoing deterioration of Ms. Cox’s health condition ... Ms. Cox is now forced to seek medical care outside of Texas," Molly Duane, senior staff attorney at the Center for Reproductive Rights, which is representing Cox, said in a court filing Monday.

...

In the Monday filing, Cox’s attorneys said that another reason she chose to leave the state is the attorney general’s “ongoing threats” to enforce Texas’ abortion laws against her.

After the lower court’s ruling, Paxton said in statement that the order would not prohibit private citizens or a district or county attorney from enforcing Texas’ pre-Roe abortion laws against Cox’s doctor or anyone else. He added that the judge’s order would “expire long before the statute of limitations for violating Texas’ abortion laws.”

[$iljanus]

I'm concerned about private citizens bringing civil lawsuits against anyone within Texas who could have helped her. Because that's the world we live in.

[Smoove_B]

I wonder if she knew this was coming - TX Supreme Court rules against her:

The Texas Supreme Court has reversed a lower court’s ruling that would have allowed Kate Cox to obtain an abortion under the state’s “medical emergency” exception.

...

As his office has done in the broader case on this issue before the state Supreme Court, Paxton’s attorneys also argued “a fatal fetal condition does not meet the medical exception,” adding the exception applies only to the mother’s condition.

...

Paxton’s office also said none of the physicians who have treated Cox, who live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, have recommended an abortion.

Dr. Damla Karsan, a Houston-based physician, a plaintiff in the other case, is cited in legal filings as having reviewed Cox’s medical records, recommended the abortion, and agreed to provide the medical care.

The state wrote in the filing Karsan’s recommendation “is not enough.”

“What he’s (Paxton) saying is that physicians in Texas shouldn’t be practicing medicine.” Duane said. “Ken Paxton is practicing medicine – because that’s what he wants – he wants to review her medical records. He wants to decide if he thinks she’s sick enough.

“When people tout the medical exceptions to abortion bans as meaning that the abortion bans are OK, and that people who really need care are still getting it, that’s a lie.”

The case shows why “it is completely untenable for patients to have to come to court and ask for court authorization for lifesaving medical care,” she said. “It’s simply outrageous and people should be outraged but what is happening in Texas right now.”

[Isgrimnur]

[Justice John] Devine has been vocal in the past about his anti-abortion views and once told a crowd of campaign supporters he had been arrested 37 times while protesting abortion clinics, according to the Texas Tribune.

[Blackhawk]

Texas has been trying to pass an abortion travel ban for some time. Watch this push that over the edge.

[$iljanus]

I hope she gets out of the state safely which is a sad thing to worry about but that's Texas for you

[Daehawk]

Can we saw off Texas and Florida like they do in Loony Toons?

[Unagi]

Can we saw off Texas and Florida like they do in Loony Toons?

Are you even aware of the abortion laws in Tennessee? You may want to get a life-preserver if we are going to saw off any states, Loony Toons' style.

[Victoria Raverna]

[Unagi]

I'm a little annoyed how they keep saying 'a black woman'. Does her race have anything to do with the story? no.

Aside from that, what a fucking chilling story... And this is just the start of our brave new world.

[gilraen]

I'm a little annoyed how they keep saying 'a black woman'. Does her race have anything to do with the story? no.

Except you never know if her race had something to do with the fact that the hospital decided to call the cops when she showed up after having miscarried. Or with the prosecutor deciding to press these outrageous charges.

[El Guapo]

I'm a little annoyed how they keep saying 'a black woman'. Does her race have anything to do with the story? no.

Except you never know if her race had something to do with the fact that the hospital decided to call the cops when she showed up after having miscarried. Or with the prosecutor deciding to press these outrageous charges.

Yeah, that's the relevance of it to the story. It shouldn't be a factor, but it's hard not to believe that her race isn't part of why she was treated this way.

[Unagi]

I'm a little annoyed how they keep saying 'a black woman'. Does her race have anything to do with the story? no.

Except you never know if her race had something to do with the fact that the hospital decided to call the cops when she showed up after having miscarried. Or with the prosecutor deciding to press these outrageous charges.

Yeah, that's the relevance of it to the story. It shouldn't be a factor, but it's hard not to believe that her race isn't part of why she was treated this way.

I agree, and yet I worry that by saying it - it almost promotes the idea that people are to be treated differently. Maybe I'm wrong and it helps expose it... but I have no faith in people anymore and I think instead they will use the data obnoxiously. I'd have felt better if the story also included a few examples of white women who've not been treated this way while still being in the same situation - so that it was a story about that.

Maybe it's more like my ear hears them saying "a black woman" - and I'm thinking "Ok, and can you be sure to articulate why that is significant here, or stop saying it with the hope that people figure it out."

While I said her race has nothing to do with the story, I fully recognize that it very likely may - but the news station refuses to speak on it at all.

[malchior]

Washington Post

Brittany Watts was still hooked to an IV, sick for almost a week from a potentially fatal miscarriage, when a detective from the Warren Police Department in Ohio stepped into her hospital room. He assured her that she wasn’t in any trouble.

For more than an hour, Detective Nick Carney interviewed Watts, 33, about the details of that morning and the whereabouts of the nearly 22-week-old fetus that was declared nonviable two days earlier. As Watts described miscarrying in her bathroom, a nurse at Mercy Health — St. Joseph Warren Hospital rubbed her shoulders and told her everything would be okay, Watts told The Washington Post in a series of text messages.

Two weeks later, Carney arrested Watts on charges of felony abuse of a corpse for how she handled the remains from her pregnancy. If indicted and found guilty, she faces up to a year in prison along with a fine of up to $2,500, her lawyer said.

...

“Moving this over to the individual after a miscarriage just heightens the question, ‘What are they supposed to do?’ ” said Dov Fox, a national health law and bioethics expert at the University of San Diego School of Law. “If it’s already difficult for hospitals, for individuals facing difficult circumstances and navigating pregnancy loss to undertake the medical system is not just a tall order but a prohibitive one.”

Watts later learned through her lawyer that the nurse who had reassured her had reported her to the police.

[Smoove_B]

Wow, that is grim.

[Blackhawk]

If I were a woman, I'd be looking for the nearest exit from Ohio. Or Texas.

[Isgrimnur]

The joys of Shut the Fuck Up Friday need to be spread far and wide.

[gbasden]

Anyone who would force a woman to have a Trisomy baby is uncaring and spiteful. And supports their personal principles over reality and suffering.

It is absolutely flat out evil what the state is doing to this poor woman. It's horrendous.

[Kraken]

Wow, that is grim.

Yeah, that woman needs more grief.

[GreenGoo]

Washington Post

Brittany Watts was still hooked to an IV, sick for almost a week from a potentially fatal miscarriage, when a detective from the Warren Police Department in Ohio stepped into her hospital room. He assured her that she wasn’t in any trouble.

Nope. Conversation over. Or at least lawyering up.

[Smoove_B]

Oh look, more judge shopping

BREAKING: Fifth Circuit holds that fed'l emergency room protections (EMTALA) do not mandate that physicians provide abortions when that is the "stabilizing treatment" needed, upholding an injunction issued in a lawsuit brought by Texas. More to come:

Read more here:

Federal regulations do not require emergency rooms to perform life-saving abortions if it would run afoul of state law, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.

After the overturn of Roe v. Wade in June 2022, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services sent hospitals guidance, reminding them of their obligation to offer stabilizing care, including medically necessary abortions, under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA).

“When a state law prohibits abortion and does not include an exception for the life of the pregnant person — or draws the exception more narrowly than EMTALA’s emergency medical condition definition — that state law is preempted,” the guidance said.

Texas sued, saying this was tantamount to a “nationwide mandate that every hospital and emergency-room physician perform abortions.” Several anti-abortion medical associations joined the lawsuit as well.

Since summer 2022, all abortions have been banned in Texas, except to save the life of the pregnant patient. But doctors, and their patients with medically complex pregnancies, have struggled with implementing the medical exception, reportedly delaying or denying abortion care rather than risk up to life in prison and the loss of their license.

[Unagi]

Wait. What? Am I reading that right?

I read that as: "Even if you are saving the life of the woman, you may not abort the child."

Is that how I am to read that?

[malchior]

I don't even understand how that is even a legitimate end. We're going to let women die for what? It's pure insanity.

If anything gets Biden re-elected - it'll be things like this where any reasonable person can see it's just *evil*.

[YellowKing]

If anyone ever asks me why I won't vote Republican, my reply will be "because if they had their way, my wife would be dead and my two kids wouldn't exist."

[gbasden]

If anyone ever asks me why I won't vote Republican, my reply will be "because if they had their way, my wife would be dead and my two kids wouldn't exist."

Same. Only one child, but I wouldn't have either my wife or my son if she couldn't have terminated the dead fetus before sepsus set in.

[malchior]

Considering that a woman was just denied an exemption in Texas for a life-saving abortion and combine it with this decision...it is pretty clear the medical exception in the law there is a dead letter. It is becoming hard to argue against the reality that Christo-fascism is here and spreading in the United States.