Octopus Overlords

The new version of GeForce Experience - necessary for automated driver updates - requires registration.
Jackholes! It won't let me get drivers without registering via Facebook, google or NVidia.

Frigging jackholes!

My conversation via Chat:

Sonal: Sorry about the wait time in the queue, the chat volume is high these days due to new game promotion and software updates.
Concerned PC User: Why the heck does the new GeForce Experience app require registration??? Why can't I just get my driver updates without this stupid requirement?
Concerned PC User: This is rather asinine to me.
Sonal: Sorry for the inconvenience caused due to the login requirement.

Users with NVIDIA accounts can take advantage of prizes and giveaways, GameStream pairing to SHIELD devices, video/photo upload and broadcasting features, and more.
Concerned PC User: So what? I just want my drivers.
Concerned PC User: I should be able to get them without the idiotic registration requirement
Concerned PC User: Pretty sure I'll be dumping NVidia for AMD if this continues
Sonal: Sorry for the inconvenience thus caused. I completely understand your concern here but there is no option to bypass the login feature
Concerned PC User: Well, put one in or provide a link to one which doesn't require it.

Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, but the convenience of being notified of new drivers and being able to download the appropriate drivers for your card+system directly from there was pretty nice actually.

My 5-year-old laptop uses Geforce Experience (the mobile version). It's had an exclamation mark over the tray icon for the last year telling me there are driver updates, but every time I try to run it, it tells me that the version is wrong or something, I don't remember now, but it's refusing to install updated drivers. Not that it matters that much anymore, the laptop isn't powerful enough to do anything that actually requires a good video card.

I'm not condoning what they're doing but does it allow you to just register with an email address vs Facebook? I honestly don't know, but if it does, can't you just create a fake gmail account and be done with it? Sure, it's a few minutes of pain, but it'd be less stress...

What about finding the email address for one of the executives for Nvidia? Or maybe their support email? Then signing up with that? Though if you have to validate first, that would screw that up.

Pyperkub wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, but the convenience of being notified of new drivers and being able to download the appropriate drivers for your card+system directly from there was pretty nice actually.

Convenience ain't free.

LawBeefaroni wrote:

Pyperkub wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, but the convenience of being notified of new drivers and being able to download the appropriate drivers for your card+system directly from there was pretty nice actually.

Convenience ain't free.

Neither are decent video cards. I paid for that convenience.

TBH, why are video card drivers so bad that they need to be updated every few months at least?

Pyperkub wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:

Pyperkub wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, but the convenience of being notified of new drivers and being able to download the appropriate drivers for your card+system directly from there was pretty nice actually.

Convenience ain't free.

Neither are decent video cards. I paid for that convenience.

TBH, why are video card drivers so bad that they need to be updated every few months at least?

You don't have to update the video card drivers every few months. If the installed driver worked just fine last year, it'll not suddenly become bad this year.

You only need to update driver if you notice something doesn't run right with the older driver.

In fact if you update the driver everytime Nvidia releases a new driver, you'll from time to time get a bad driver like the driver they released a few days ago which caused problem in Windows 10.

I wish people were as concerned about updating the firmware/drivers in everything else as they are for video drivers. I update them when I have an issue, and try to remember to run a full driver check maybe once a year to ensure my whole computer is up-to-date. You might *find your computer works a touch better when everything is current.

Heck, when I take my car to the dealership I ask them to make sure I'm still using the most current version of the drivers/firmware for my electronics.

Yeah, I mentioned it in the PC gaming forum last month, but it probably makes more sense here. It boggles the mind.

Pyperkub wrote: TBH, why are video card drivers so bad that they need to be updated every few months at least?

In many cases it has to do with new games being released rather than problems with existing drivers. They set up profiles to optimize performance with the latest and greatest and to solve problems with games that weren't even out when the last batch went through.

Pyperkub wrote:

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, but the convenience of being notified of new drivers and being able to download the appropriate drivers for your card+system directly from there was pretty nice actually.

I see. For me there's zero convenience there. I visit a couple of gaming news sites regularly and news of new drivers is one of the things that gets posted. It flows better if I can click a link in the browser I'm already using rather than to have to run a separate program(Geforce experience) in order to get the drivers. I minimize what starts up with Windows and so only ran GE when I was recording gameplay or wanted to see framerate, two things I can do with other free programs.

NVIDIA nicely uninstalled the GeForce Experience automatically from my machine last night.

Pyperkub wrote:The new version of GeForce Experience - necessary for automated driver updates - requires registration.
Jackholes! It won't let me get drivers without registering via Facebook, google or NVidia.

Frigging jackholes!

My conversation via Chat:

Sonal: Sorry about the wait time in the queue, the chat volume is high these days due to new game promotion and software updates.
Concerned PC User: Why the heck does the new GeForce Experience app require registration??? Why can't I just get my driver updates without this stupid requirement?
Concerned PC User: This is rather asinine to me.
Sonal: Sorry for the inconvenience caused due to the login requirement.

Users with NVIDIA accounts can take advantage of prizes and giveaways, GameStream pairing to SHIELD devices, video/photo upload and broadcasting features, and more.
Concerned PC User: So what? I just want my drivers.
Concerned PC User: I should be able to get them without the idiotic registration requirement
Concerned PC User: Pretty sure I'll be dumping NVidia for AMD if this continues
Sonal: Sorry for the inconvenience thus caused. I completely understand your concern here but there is no option to bypass the login feature
Concerned PC User: Well, put one in or provide a link to one which doesn't require it.

Lol, yeah. Didn't we discuss this already, somewhere? Maybe somewhere where we talked about recording game video? You can no longer use Shadowplay (it has a new name, don't remember what) without Experience running, and Experience is now a pile of bull.

My Nvidia GeForce Experience is sitting in its little notification spot with a big ! on it. Sometimes it'll pop up, demanding I move to the new version (that requires an actual account, password and constant connection). It's just a matter of time before it stops asking and starts holding my video card hostage until I do.

Fuck you Nvidia. I wish you had done this before I bought my card from you.

You. Suck.

gameoverman wrote:Um, I've been getting drivers just fine from the driver page. It even comes with an option to install the old Geforce 2.xx experience if you'd like.

I agree that it's dumb to require login, which is why I no longer use Geforce experience at all. I just use alternative, non login requiring programs for those purposes.

Yeah, last I read, which was months ago, is that they chickened out (twice now, apparently) about requiring Experience before you can have your drivers. So far, you can still get the drivers separate from the Experience software. That doesn't help if you want to use some of the other card features like hardware video capture, but at least it's an option.

That said Nvidia's history around this is that they really, really, really want to make sure you need to be constantly talking to them if you want drivers. Which means they will try again in the future to disallow distribution of their drivers through any channel that isn't Experience.

I don't quite get the freakout. I signed up with the free email address I use for all spam sites. It took like two minutes, and it runs fine.

I got all grumpy for a day or two myself, but then I realized - I sign into an account every time I blink. I can't think of any data that Nvidia might collect that is private enough for me to care about. It isn't like I don't have a junk address to use. Signing in once affects me roughly zero.

gbasden wrote:I don't quite get the freakout.

It's the 2016 equivalent of plug in air fresheners - pointless. The day I need to provide an email address to enable features on my smart-refrigerator is when I disappear into the wilds of Montana.

Smoove_B wrote:

gbasden wrote:I don't quite get the freakout.

It's the 2016 equivalent of plug in air fresheners - pointless. The day I need to provide an email address to enable features on my smart-refrigerator is when I disappear into the wilds of Montana.

Sure, it's pointless. So are innumerable things I do every day. As Blackhawk said, it took me about an extra two minutes once to create a crap email box. After that, it doesn't effect me. /shrug. To each their own breaking point, I guess.

I'm not gonna get into why having continuous open connections to random corporations around the world is a bad idea.

I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

GreenGoo wrote:I'm not gonna get into why having continuous open connections to random corporations around the world is a bad idea.

I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

That's easy - come visit me and I will show you either of my parents' laptops to satisfy your curiosity. I tell them both they get two "freebies" a year where I sit down and grind through all the shit they've installed, and clean their computers. It usually leaves me in a very bad mood.

GreenGoo wrote: I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

I don't think anyone was suggesting anything even remotely comparable to that. It is more about thoughtfully deciding to click yes to some things rather than clicking automatically clicking no to everything. I also don't think Nvidia is a 'random corporation.'

Blackhawk wrote:

GreenGoo wrote: I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

I don't think anyone was suggesting anything even remotely comparable to that. It is more about thoughtfully deciding to click yes to some things rather than clicking automatically clicking no to everything. I also don't think Nvidia is a 'random corporation.'

Let him be, hes channeling his inner JeffV.

tjg_marantz wrote:

Blackhawk wrote:

GreenGoo wrote: I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

I don't think anyone was suggesting anything even remotely comparable to that. It is more about thoughtfully deciding to click yes to some things rather than clicking automatically clicking no to everything. I also don't think Nvidia is a 'random corporation.'

Let him be, hes channeling his inner JeffV.

Lol. My job is to determine attack vectors and protect against them. Unwarranted access to computers is personally offensive to me.

If you think my unwillingness to provide access to my machines to every corporation that promises to be good makes me a contrarian, then I'm not sure I agree with your definition.

Also, I was in no way saying that you guys click yes to everything. I was genuinely wondering what a system would look like that a person just agreed to everything legit corporations asked of them.

That said, what makes Nvidia not random? What thoughtful decision making did you do to agree to Nvidia's decision to remove the only legal access to hardware features on your card unless you let them talk to your computer at their convenience?

There is no need outside of an artificial one put in place after sale by Nvidia that requires a constant connect to my computer. None. If the EULA said you had to wear green every day, is that a small price to pay for a working video card? Because it's about as useful to you and as technically required.

I get that people do not care about security or data protection, but the idea that you disparage those that do is beyond irresponsible. Shrug. It's a bad idea. That you don't care and probably won't suffer any consequences from it doesn't make it right.

If you understand the ramifications of what you allow on your computer and still don't care, well, that's your decision. If you don't understand and don't care, well, that's ignorance, and certainly not something to look down your nose at others from.

Type netstat -ab on your computer and tell me if you understand what all those connections are doing (the browser ones should be the easy ones). Hell, I have a new install on another computer and I still needed to read up on a couple of them, and that's just a short list.

Ok, again, I actually don't want to get into it any further. This "let the crazy man rant" attitude annoyed me.

Carpet_pissr wrote:

GreenGoo wrote:I'm not gonna get into why having continuous open connections to random corporations around the world is a bad idea.

I am curious to know what a windows system run by a user (this is not directed specifically at anyone here) who constantly clicks yes would look like after a few years.

That's easy - come visit me and I will show you either of my parents' laptops to satisfy your curiosity. I tell them both they get two "freebies" a year where I sit down and grind through all the shit they've installed, and clean their computers. It usually leaves me in a very bad mood.

I'm not surprised, although in that case I'm sure they're clicking on malware and all sorts of crap. I was just speculating about what a heavily used machine run by a semi-knowledgeable user would look like after a couple of years of MMO's, hardware installs, free to plays, board sign ups etc etc. All what people would call "legit" and not overtly malicious connections/accounts/data access.

Just "regular" usage, for the most part.

I'm not a pro. I can't compete with your knowledge of computer security. I'm just honestly not sure how you go from someone saying that they don't mind signing into an Nvidia account (for an app that was already connected to the company before the sing-in was needed) to "I get that people do not care about security or data protection."

Wait a second, did I miss something here? Is it required that this Nvidia app is always running and always connected? Honest - I'm not making light here, if that is the case, I take back my earlier "what's the big deal" comment.

If you just have to register to run the app, get your driver updates, and you can close the app (and can prevent it from auto-starting with Windows), and don't need to run it again until the next time you need updates, again, who cares? I'm OK with there being a connection between my computer and Nvidia when I'm downloading a driver update from them.

I was referring to leaving it running. You can absolutely load it when you want an update, or bypass it altogether (never install it) and still get the updates directly from Nvidia (and if I didn't want to leave it running, I'd see no reason to have it installed at all, as it would be just as quick to go directly to their site.)

I like it because I like being notified as soon as updates are available, I use the feature that lets you save replays, and the kids use it (logged in to my account) for a free FPS counter and screenshot program.

Razer also requires a constantly-signed-in 'helper' app to use some of the features of their stupid *mouse*. so i make do without those.

Blackhawk wrote:I was referring to leaving it running. You can absolutely load it when you want an update, or bypass it altogether (never install it) and still get the updates directly from Nvidia (and if I didn't want to leave it running, I'd see no reason to have it installed at all, as it would be just as quick to go directly to their site.)

I like it because I like being notified as soon as updates are available, I use the feature that lets you save replays, and the kids use it (logged in to my account) for a free FPS counter and screenshot program.

It's designed to run constantly. Installing it puts it in your bootup sequence. You can turn it off, absolutely, but then as you noted, you can't do any hardware video capture with the card. Also as you noted, you can still download the updates directly from Nvidia without the tool. But, as I also said, this is the second time they've made noise about making Experience (the name of the app) the only way to get driver updates. They haven't done it, but they really want to do it.

The backlash (and it was non-trivial) for this latest account/connection change has not fazed them a bit. It should surprise no one if sometime in the near future they do a "trial run" where updates are only available through the app.

Razer, as noted, does pretty much the exact same thing, but to the best of my knowledge none of the mouse features require the connection. i.e. you can shutdown the app and still use the mouse for everything you bought it for. I could be totally wrong.

If it were just needing an account to download the drivers, I probably wouldn't care nearly as much. I mean, I'd still care, but why I would care would be different.

Blackhawk wrote:I'm not a pro. I can't compete with your knowledge of computer security. I'm just honestly not sure how you go from someone saying that they don't mind signing into an Nvidia account (for an app that was already connected to the company before the sing-in was needed) to "I get that people do not care about security or data protection."

It has to do with vectors. If you give permission for something to connect to your computer, you want it to be for a good reason, you want to know why, and you want it to benefit you.

You can turn your computer into a bunker, or you can put in more windows and leave them open. One might be over kill, but the other is just tempting fate. One of the main reasons any particular person's windows box (linux box to a lesser extent) doesn't get compromised is because of the sheer number of boxes out there. You're a zebra in a sea of zebras. The other is not running software you don't trust. Less risky but still terrible practice is letting a corporation in because they ask you nicely, or in this case, hold some of the features of their product hostage unless you do.

It's not that I think Nvidia is going to compromise my computer, it's that they want me to leave the door open for them to "help" me. Since everything worked great for years without this sort of "help", it's hard to justify needing it now.

And that doesn't even cover all the different ways that Nvidia could get compromised and suddenly a hacker who as hacked a single corporate computer can push code to run on every single machine Nvidia has decided they need constant access to.

Even if your neighbourhood is safe, it's not a great idea to leave the door open when you leave the house.

I may speak hyperbolically at times, but that's because I am often greeted with at best a complete lack of concern from people, and at worse, vilified for my opinion on this.

For the record computer security is only a small part of my job (we have bigger boys with bigger toys for that) and I'm not very good at it. That said, I'd have my ass chewed off at work if I just let a hole in the firewall because the vendor "asked" me to, after I had already purchased their product.

Also for the record our AIX boxes (IBM unix) have direct lines to IBM. So there's that. In this case though, it's for genuine help and support. Not marketing and (well, less so ) control.

Is what NVidia is doing any different than the onerous (in terms of system resources) Logitech task that runs continually? IIRC, you HAVE to install that (Setpoint, is it?) if you want the hardware features to work correctly (unless you are just using very basic mouse functionality).

And Corsair. And Steam. And my ESET (my antivirus.) And Dropbox. And Microsoft. All run in the background with a constant connection. All but one of those (Corsair) I'm actually signed into or have a key that ties back to an account with my name on it.

GreenGoo wrote: Razer, as noted, does pretty much the exact same thing, but to the best of my knowledge none of the mouse features require the connection. i.e. you can shutdown the app and still use the mouse for everything you bought it for. I could be totally wrong.

you'll have basic functionality without the constantly logged-in connection, but that's it. you won't have access to any programmed macros (or even be able to make any at all) without it. i think you won't have access to their DPI settings utility either.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/ ... -internet/

Blackhawk wrote:And Corsair. And Steam. And my ESET (my antivirus.) And Dropbox. And Microsoft. All run in the background with a constant connection. All but one of those (Corsair) I'm actually signed into or have a key that ties back to an account with my name on it.

And the more, the better?
We're already at the point where we'd all be screwed if we lost our internet connection.
And even WITH an internet connection, we're all reliant on some company being on the other end to make things work.
My mind boggles at the faith many of you have that all of this is just going to keep on working as long as we need it to. No worries?

Not even close. I hate it. I despise it. I don't trust the companies in general, and I don't trust that I'll always have internet access available.

I've also become resigned to the fact that it is the way of things right now.

GreenGoo wrote:
That said, what makes Nvidia not random? What thoughtful decision making did you do to agree to Nvidia's decision to remove the only legal access to hardware features on your card unless you let them talk to your computer at their convenience?

There is no need outside of an artificial one put in place after sale by Nvidia that requires a constant connect to my computer. None. If the EULA said you had to wear green every day, is that a small price to pay for a working video card? Because it's about as useful to you and as technically required.

I get that people do not care about security or data protection, but the idea that you disparage those that do is beyond irresponsible. Shrug. It's a bad idea. That you don't care and probably won't suffer any consequences from it doesn't make it right.

I don't completely agree. I think you are setting up a strawman that isn't necessarily accurate. I do care about security and I don't install things randomly. What I do is make a thoughtful decision about whether or not a given set of features is worth the trade off asked. In this case, the OP was complaining that Nvidia was making him sign in with an account. Creating an account takes moments and does not in any way compromise the security of the system. Claiming that this means I don't care about security is ludicrous.

Whether or not you want to leave GeForce experience running 24x7 is a completely different discussion. If you object to that there is no reason you can't manually download the drivers or only run the software when you desire. I decided I was willing to let the software run on startup because the utility to me in terms of watching for driver updates and applying the optimal settings for games was worth the (IMO) very minimal risk. I've made a different decision about TeamViewer as an example because of the much greater risk to my system and some history of hacking. Again, I don't think that mental calculus means I don't give a crap about security. I make a lot different decisions about data center security than I do my gaming PC.

Well, I'm playing PlayerUnknown's Battlegrounds and I really, really want the ease and convenience of the video capture built into the 980gtx I bought (partly with these features in mind) because things happen so fast in game that I would like a chance to review them afterward. The ability to record the last 5 minutes of play by default is one of the things I thought was cool about shadowplay. That it happens at the hardware level just makes it that much cooler. I could do my homework, find out what is decent in the video capture world, install it, learn it and use it. Or I could simply install Experience and have it all working in 5 minutes.

Nvidia may have won this round, even if it took a year for them to do it. As noted above, I'm pretty opposed to this sort of hostage taking. It's incredibly unfair to change the requirements to use features of a product after it has been purchased. It's a shitty practice, and that's without commenting on what those requirements are, which in this case are also shitty.

But I paid hundreds of dollars in part specifically for those features, and now I have a compelling reason to want to use them.

Fuck. You. Nvidia.

edit: Oh hey, look at them hoover up personal information as part of the account creation process. Double FU for even trying. And a big middle finger to every enabling, not a big deal, what are you worried about person in this thread. Tongue in cheek. Sorta.

edit: Turns out Bluehole (PUBG developer) and Nvidia have already sold their souls to each other and the game works with Geforce Experience to automatically save game highlights as they happen, so you don't even need to hit a hotkey to tell shadowplay to save the last 5 minutes of video. It literally does this based on whatever is happening in game. It sounds...friggin amazing. I'll probably post in the PUBG thread once I see how well it works (or not).

New version of Experience messing with keyboard (Corsair rgb) and mouse (razer) response in pubg lobby.

Reverted to older version and things are back to working.

Recall that the only reason I have this software installed is to record pubg videos.