Legendary buys film and tv rights to Dune [movie] Dune 2021

[hepcat]

Maybe they could get a lesser director to make the Brian Herbert knock off books. Cast a Mark Wahlberg or something as the lead. Then sell action figures to fund the adaptations of Frank’s books that were written for adults.

[Jeff V]

I thought you were all-in when it comes to YA fiction?

Have you even read the Brian Herbert books? I haven't yet read the ones he did with his dad in the far future part of the story, because I really didn't like Heretics or Chapterhouse. But the prequels are well done, and the fill-in stories are good too....you learn a lot about Count Fenrig and the Bene Tlelaxu. You also learn of the origins of the Bene Gesserit as well as Jessica's back story. And did you know the Harkonnens weren't always a collective of shitbags?

No, the books are not as complex as the original Dune, but few are. They are on par with some of Frank's subsequent books though, including Dune Messiah and Children of Dune.

My only complaint continues to be that the important players: Atreides, Corrino, Harkonnen...date back several millennia, and there is nothing in human history that equates to that. Atreides goes back to the original Agamemnon of Trojan War fame. This is where the whole story kinds of goes off the rails for me, but I enjoyed the books nevertheless.

[hepcat]

From everything I’ve read about them, they completely miss the mark on Frank’s original intention of deconstructing the hero myth and showing how dangerous hero worship can be, and go all in on the “heroes are neat!” viewpoint.

you learn a lot about Count Fenrig and the Bene Tlelaxu. You also learn of the origins of the Bene Gesserit as well as Jessica's back story. And did you know the Harkonnens weren't always a collective of shitbags?

No, you learn what Brian thinks they should be.

I also am doubtful that Frank left behind notes that Brian happened to come across, and that they informed his writing. If that were true, his books wouldn’t be almost universally hated by Frank Herbert fans.

YA Dune? No thanks.

[Daehawk]

Dune 90210?

[hepcat]

[Lagom Lite]

Beyond that, as far as the Frank Herbert books go, the rest I'd consider unfilmable, Now, the Brian Herbert books would make good filler movies...but from God Emperor on, things get too philosophical (not much action) and too implausible, projecting some of the same characters and houses 10,000 years in the future. When you consider human history, the longest family dynasties are extinct after a few hundred years.

I've given God-Emperor some thought on how it could be adapted, and I think it could be done if:

Spoiler:

The God-Emperor is made into an antagonist instead of the protagonist, and the Golden Path only revealed in full as a twist at the end (it should have already been hinted at in the preceding Children of Dune adaptation). So Leto II is the monster which the Resistance is trying to overthrow.

Plot as follows: 3,500 years have past. The Fremen are now "Museum Fremen" and faces another kind of oppression. The spice is all but gone. Everyone is forced to live out their lives under "Leto's peace" and the brutal, lawless oppression of his Fish Speaker cult.

We follow Siona and her crew, most of which are wiped out by the wolves following the archive heist just as in the beginning of the novel. However, the fact that she manage to escape with the records points to something - there's a chink in the God-Emperor's prescience. Somehow, Siona seems almost "hidden" from his omniscient view.

Meanwhile, a new female ambassador from Ix arrives and charms the God-Emperor into marrying her. The Duncan ghola finds out about his past and the horrors of Leto's reign. There is an unsuccessful attack on Leto by genetically modified shape-shifters, which is staved off by Duncan, the Fish Speakers and Leto himself, but Duncan has now seen the evil of the Worm and becomes determined to break the cycle and put an end to Leto.

After being tested by Leto in the desert, Siona secretly allies with the Duncan and together with whatever is left of the Resistance and the Fremen, they plan and carry out a successful attack on Leto's wedding, only to find out that they were part of Leto's true plan all along.

It's a weird story for sure, but not unfilmable IMO.

[AWS260]

[Jag]

Tempted to rewatch SciFi Brian Herbert's Dune mini series again. Mostly because my wife and kids were so confused by the abrupt ending of the Dune movie and the mini series does a nice job of telling the entire story. Pretty crazy they didn't film the sequel around the same time like LOTR.

Haven't seen it since it originally aired around 2000 and bought the DVDs back when that was the way you rewatched most stuff. Since that appears to be the only legal way to watch it again, I guess it was a good purchase.

[Zaxxon]

Pretty crazy they didn't film the sequel around the same time like LOTR.

I saw an interview with Villenueueueuevelllleue, and apparently he did push to film both at once, but the PTB weren't ready to commit at that time.

[Jeff V]

LOL....I was just re-watching Back to School with my wife (had to pause after Sam Kinnison's entrance, will hopefully finish tomorrow).

[Daehawk]

Me and my friends went to the movies one weekend together. Us guys picked Back to School on one side of the double theater and the girls picked Teachers on the other side. Fun days. Might confuse movies with The Wild Life....not sure.

[Jeff V]

I've given God-Emperor some thought on how it could be adapted, and I think it could be done if:

Spoiler:

It's a weird story for sure, but not unfilmable IMO.

My biggest problem across the whole series (both Frank and Brian's books) is the continuity of families over millennia. There is no real precedent in human history (although in these books apparently the Atreides can trace their lineage back to Homeric Agamemnon). While the scenario you describe might make a viable movie, it would also be a departure from the initial trilogy and might alienate those looking for for a more contiguous story line.

HBO ought to do a long-term series, starting with Brian's pre-Butlerian Jihad novels and taking everything in chronological order. It'll still get weird once the latter books jump several millennia in the future (along with the perpetually cloned Duncan Idahos). But the story line is pretty cohesive up to God Emperor.

[Lagom Lite]

I've given God-Emperor some thought on how it could be adapted, and I think it could be done if:

Spoiler:

It's a weird story for sure, but not unfilmable IMO.

My biggest problem across the whole series (both Frank and Brian's books) is the continuity of families over millennia. There is no real precedent in human history (although in these books apparently the Atreides can trace their lineage back to Homeric Agamemnon). While the scenario you describe might make a viable movie, it would also be a departure from the initial trilogy and might alienate those looking for for a more contiguous story line.

HBO ought to do a long-term series, starting with Brian's pre-Butlerian Jihad novels and taking everything in chronological order. It'll still get weird once the latter books jump several millennia in the future (along with the perpetually cloned Duncan Idahos). But the story line is pretty cohesive up to God Emperor.

I haven't read the Brian Herbert books, nor do I intend to, but I'd watch those adaptations if they were made.

Given the time jump in God-Emperor, I'd think a movie would be a better fit as it is an isolated story. Heretics of Dune would be the same, as it's another few hundred years after the events in God-Emperor so I'd argue it would also fit better as a stand-alone movie.

Another variant, I guess, would be a mini-series following Leto II's arc, from Children of Dune into God-Emperor of Dune. The time jump and transformation of the main character would be jarring but I guess that could work.

But it's all pretty academic at this point. If Dune Part 2 is successful, Villeneuve will probably want to do Messiah to finish the Paul arc but not much more. If the franchise keeps strong they would probably just add to the universe by inventing new storylines for themselves with Brian Herbert and just not bother with adapting previous books. I guess Children of Dune could make a decent adaptation (as proven by the James McAvoy adaptation) but God-Emperor and on is increasingly obscure.

[Holman]

I've given God-Emperor some thought on how it could be adapted, and I think it could be done if:

Spoiler:

It's a weird story for sure, but not unfilmable IMO.

My biggest problem across the whole series (both Frank and Brian's books) is the continuity of families over millennia. There is no real precedent in human history (although in these books apparently the Atreides can trace their lineage back to Homeric Agamemnon). While the scenario you describe might make a viable movie, it would also be a departure from the initial trilogy and might alienate those looking for for a more contiguous story line.

To be fair to Herbert, IIRC the Atreides don't *know* they're descendants of Agamemnon. Alia and Leto II learn it because they have access to the strongest personalities among their ancestral memories, but that's, you know, magic.

Less convincing is Herbert's decision (is it in Chapterhouse? Heretics?) to have Judaism still exist basically unchanged throughout something like 20,000+ years of history.

[Carpet_pissr]

Just watched it. My very critical, non-book reading opinion is that it was fantastic. Breathtaking even. Same design, feel and cinematography as the last Bladerunner, which I also thought was amazing.

The sound design and score were excellent. ‘The Voice’ subwoofer/LFE was so far off the charts it knocked a picture off my wall it shook it so hard. Felt like A damn earthquake.

Beautiful, amazing film, and I can’t wait to re-watch it before the next one drops.

9/10 for me.

Just SLIGHTLY sad that now all those plot twists will not surprise me when I start reading.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Just SLIGHTLY sad that now all those plot twists will not surprise me when I start reading.

Rest assured, even though the movie is two and a half hours long, there are more than a few plot twists in the novel that obviously had to be omitted.

BTW, if the novel now interests you, you may find the unabridged audio book version easier to keep up with. From what I recall, the narrator is quite good, and many scenes are performed by several actors with suitable background music sprinkled in here and there, so it really comes to life in the 'theatre of your mind.'

[Daehawk]

I have a 1976 hardback edition of Children of Dune with dust cover intact. I wonder if its worth something.

[Jeff V]

Just SLIGHTLY sad that now all those plot twists will not surprise me when I start reading.

Rest assured, even though the movie is two and a half hours long, there are more than a few plot twists in the novel that obviously had to be omitted.

BTW, if the novel now interests you, you may find the unabridged audio book version easier to keep up with. From what I recall, the narrator is quite good, and many scenes are performed by several actors with suitable background music sprinkled in here and there, so it really comes to life in the 'theatre of your mind.'

I listened to the audiobook a few months ago, and the production indeed is excellent.

[Carpet_pissr]

‘Unabridged’ relative to other audiobook versions, or are there abridged and unabridged versions of the book as well?

[Jeff V]

I have no idea if there's an abridged version out there. I get them from the library, they are all unabridged. IIRC, this is a fairly recent production.

[Anonymous Bosch]

‘Unabridged’ relative to other audiobook versions, or are there abridged and unabridged versions of the book as well?

The current version available from Audible is technically a dramatized version, so it's not a word-for-word reading and technically not abridged. Some minor edits are made in the dramatized chapters to eliminate superfluous "…he said," "…she said," "…Duncan Idaho replied," stuff, so as to keep the story and dramatization flowing and seamless. But if you'd prefer a word-for-word reading by a single narrator, there is another unabridged audiobook version of Dune read by George Guidall.

[Carpet_pissr]

So I need to read all 6 Dune books, correct? For some reason I thought (until I just now looked it up at my library) there was one massive tome, not one of six!

Will both movies encompass all six?

I knew I should have read this much earlier. I’m #88 (23 total copies) on the waitlist for the ebook at my library.
It shows about an 8 week wait time (which is fine, really, I’m reading about three different books right now)

No idea about the audiobook waitlists.

[Lagom Lite]

So I need to read all 6 Dune books, correct? For some reason I thought (until I just now looked it up at my library) there was one massive tome, not one of six!

Will both movies encompass all six?

I knew I should have read this much earlier. I’m #88 (23 total copies) on the waitlist for the ebook at my library.
It shows about an 8 week wait time (which is fine, really, I’m reading about three different books right now)

No idea about the audiobook waitlists.

Both movies only encompass the very first book. Paul's complete arc is the first book + Dune: Messiah (which can be seen as a sort of epilogue for Paul). If Denis Villeneuve gets to do it, he could make a third movie out of the second, shorter book (Messiah).

Children of Dune and God-Emperor of Dune is about Paul's son, Leto II. Children of Dune had a low-budget adaptation some twenty years ago, an early role for James McAvoy. But no one has ever tried to adapt the last three books in the Dune saga.

Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune takes place much later in the future and are about a kind of civil war between the Bene Gesserit and an offshoot Bene Gesserit sex cult called the "Honored Matres", where the former is trying to save humanity from an external threat while the latter is on a quest for power while fleeing said threat.

[Carpet_pissr]

Let me ask a different way: does the end of the first book leave you with loose ends that are tied up in the second (or following) books? Or is it self contained?

Showing as a series of 6 books on Amazon.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Let me ask a different way: does the end of the first book leave you with loose ends that are tied up in the second (or following) books? Or is it self contained?

Showing as a series of 6 books on Amazon.

Villeneuve's two-parter Dune movies = the original novel, Dune, i.e. book 1 of the series, split into two halves. And even though the first part of the movies has a runtime of two and a half hours, a whole lot was still necessarily omitted and condensed from the novel. Suffice to say, the novel has an undeniably complex and epic scope, and is filled inner monologues and such that further flesh out characters with their thoughts and motivations.

I'd say the first novel is fairly self-contained though, without any major cliffhangers or loose ends that I recall, if that's a concern.

[TheMix]

one massive tome

I thought Dune was much smaller. Your comment made me look it up. The wiki says 412 pages. That's pretty respectable. I'd have sworn my copy was more like 250 pages. Maybe my copy uses thinner paper than a lot of my other books. Huh. The more you know....

[TheMix]

I only read the first book. And I don't ever recall feeling like I needed the second to finish the story. So my, much faded due to time, memory says you will be fine.

[Archinerd]

Let me ask a different way: does the end of the first book leave you with loose ends that are tied up in the second (or following) books? Or is it self contained?

Showing as a series of 6 books on Amazon.

Reading all 6 of the original Frank Herbert novels isn't going to give you any closure. He died before he could finish the story.
You have three options for where to end to have things tied up neatly (as they can be).

1) Read only Dune.
2) Read Dune & Dune Messiah
3) Read everything, including Brian Herbert & Kevin Anderson's sequels. I don't recommend this option (the novels are not generally well regarded but they do have their fans).

I personally only read Frank's novels, so I don't have a tidy ending, but I'm fine with that.

[Jeff V]

The Brian Herbert novels are just fine, and he was working off his father's notes. The only masterpiece among them is the original Dune, so if that is your barometer as to whether the other novels are any good, then go seek other masterpieces. If you love the universe that was created, Brian does a superb job filling in the back stories of almost every character in the original Dune (I'm still waiting for the sexpose on Shadout Mapes). Don't you want the 411 on Count Fenrig? What's up with the Bene Tlielaxu? What was so bad about the Butlerian Jihad that thinking machines were banned? How could the Landsraad tolerate such an evil house such as the Harkonnens?

Spoiler:

They weren't always evil.

Why did Jessica defy the Bene Gesserit and birth a boy? What is the origin stories of Thufur Hawat, Duncan Idaho, and Gurney Halleck? These and much more are answered in the prequels. Again, it's not profound literature, mainly because it's derivative, but Frankie's other books were no prize pig either. They are very much entertaining brain candy, however, and at the end of the day, how many of us demand more than this from the majority of fiction that we read?

[Zarathud]

Yes, the prequels are backstory and not complex. Stuff happens but it’s not layered. But the prequels know their limitations and stick to the script. That’s a virtue in my mind because Frank Herbert nearly lost track of his threads in the sequels.

[Archinerd]

If you love the universe that was created, Brian does a superb job filling in the back stories of almost every character in the original Dune (I'm still waiting for the sexpose on Shadout Mapes).

That's my problem with them, they provide too many answers which diminishes the whole. For me, there's more value in the ambiguity and mystery.

edit; fixed quote block

[Jeff V]

Why? It's like comfort food for the brain. I like knowing this stuff, and Brian did a good job telling it. I understand if the only literature you care to consume is those regarded as the best of all time, but I rather enjoy series that tell a long story. I enjoyed Cornwell's Sharp's Series, and his Last Kingdom series, both well into double-digits. I liked L.Ron's Mission Earth series @ 10 books. I liked Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin series @ 20 books. I like Lee Child's Jack Reacher series at over 20 books.

I don't find knowing less of a fictional world to somehow add to it. I've probably read the original Dune more times than I have any other book outside of Huck Finn. After reading the Brian Herbert books, listening to the audiobook a few months ago was the most enjoyable re-read since my initial reading of the book. And that's because I now know the back story of some of the bit-players in the novel.

[hepcat]

Well….you have Brian Herbert’s vision of things. It seems most reviewers think that’s the problem. There’s a reason his takes in his father’s works are so widely disliked by fans of his father. But as I’ve conceded, I haven’t read them. Nor am I likely to. Even you yourself preface many of your endorsements with caveats like "comfort food" and "YA".

[AWS260]

I hope the movies don't go too far into the series, since the perfect God Emperor special effect has already been done:

[hepcat]

[Archinerd]

Why? It's like comfort food for the brain. I like knowing this stuff, and Brian did a good job telling it. I understand if the only literature you care to consume is those regarded as the best of all time, but I rather enjoy series that tell a long story. I enjoyed Cornwell's Sharp's Series, and his Last Kingdom series, both well into double-digits. I liked L.Ron's Mission Earth series @ 10 books. I liked Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey/Maturin series @ 20 books. I like Lee Child's Jack Reacher series at over 20 books.

I don't find knowing less of a fictional world to somehow add to it. I've probably read the original Dune more times than I have any other book outside of Huck Finn. After reading the Brian Herbert books, listening to the audiobook a few months ago was the most enjoyable re-read since my initial reading of the book. And that's because I now know the back story of some of the bit-players in the novel.

Why? Because sometimes less is more.

That said, I don't care one way or another if you like the Brian/Anderson Dune books, It makes no difference to me.
And I don't mean this in a hostile way and I'm not trying to convince you.

I probably should have originaly said, "The Dune community is split on the value of the Brian/Anderson books, I personally don't care for them".

[Jeff V]

Some people will accept nothing less than the greatness of the original, and if that's the bar they set for personal enjoyment, I pity them, because few books will ever satisfy them. I read a lot, sometimes I read challenging books, sometimes it's brain candy. I enjoy either for different reasons.

[hepcat]

Some people will accept just about anything, and if that's the bar they set for personal enjoyment, I pity them, because just about anything will satisfy them.

FTFY

[TheMix]

Some people will accept just about anything, and if that's the bar they set for personal enjoyment, I pity them, because just about anything will satisfy them.

FTFY

[hepcat]

Before anyone takes offense, just a quick reminder: I own a copy of Kevin Costner's The Postman.