Octopus Overlords

malchior wrote:True but that is sort of my point. If the daily news is overwhelming the message perhaps they need to re-evaluate how they are providing information. This is a philosophical argument and isn't that well fleshed out. I don't know what would work but I'm sure as shit that what they are doing now isn't working.

What makes you say that it isn't working? I think everyone outside of the right wing media bubble has at least a general understanding that Trump is corrupt, impulsive, tied to Russia, etc. Trump's support has fallen, especially his "strongly support" numbers, while his "strongly oppose" numbers are going up.

Enough is known right now to support a much farther reaching investigation, and possibly even impeachment. The issue isn't really with media coverage at this point (although there are flaws, of course). The issues are with the right wing media bubble (and the difficulty in piercing that), and with a Republican party unwilling to do anything about it. There isn't much that the media can do to make Ryan or McConnell be responsible.

*We know this*. And people who pay attention know this if they have the retention to do so. However talk to an ordinary person and they will likely know next to nothing about what is going on. And this sounds like it is but it isn't an elitist statement. People are dreadfully misinformed. They might know the broad strokes and might even agree that things are bad. However they don't often grasp how *historically bad* things are. That is where I believe they are failing us.

And then you have the NY Times moving in a direction where they are basically opening the doors to shitty commentary (reference tweet below). The opinion page has been dreadful lately. Some of the crap they've published over the last few weeks has been complete drek. Apparently the Times is hoping that the comments section pushes back on the crap. That'll totally work. To be balanced to the NY Times (har har), the current public editor is part of why the NY Times opinion page has been terrible but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I dunno, I've read plenty of articles talking about how historically bad things are. Yeah, a lot of people don't bother reading up on politics and all and so don't see that stuff and are underinformed, but I'm not totally sure what the media can do about that.

There are of course real issues with the media and with particular outlets (CNN hiring Trump camp people who they essentially know will lie in order to provide 'balance' comes to mind). I'm just not sure criticism of "the media" writ large is all that accurate or illuminating.

I will say the notion of the NYT relying on comment threads in place of a public editor is laughable on its face. Have they met comment threads before?

malchior, you'll be pleased to see this - Every Russia story Trump said was a hoax by Democrats: A timeline.

Nice. I assume they will keep this as a 'standing' article and will just add to it over time. Hopefully others will use this as a reference as well to point out the behavior in a fact based and detailed manner.

The article referenced in the tweet is 80% about how the Republicans have been corrupted by big money and went off the rails since 2008 about climate change. It manages to puts a hefty helping of blame on Obama for doing a lot on climate change via executive action. Of course he did! Did Davenport and Lipton miss the whole entirety of the second term of Obama's administration vis a vis his relationship with a deranged Congress? So they once again managed to inject some ridiculous bothsiderism into this piece. I think I'm very, very close to dropping the NY Times at this point along with their editorial madness. The bad is close to outweighing the good. It might soon just be the Washington Post fighting the good fight soon.

NY Times comments section is starting to already get really dumb. As an example here is a NY Times Top pick for a comment on the Jim Comey hearings:

Just read Comey's written remarks. Still nothing here folks. This is getting real boring.

What insight.

Ugh,

In the first hours of Donald Trump’s presidency, Washington, D.C., police booked John Boswell and Aaron Cantú into jail. Boswell was a millionaire Trump supporter arrested after he sexually assaulted a maid in the hotel room he’d booked for the inauguration. Cantú was a journalist arrested while covering protesters outside the inaugural ceremonies.

Boswell will serve no prison time for the sexual abuse, to which he pleaded guilty. Cantú faces up to 75 years in prison.

CNN Cuts Ties With Reza Aslan Over Anti-Trump Tweet

CNN has canceled Believer With Reza Aslan, a series about faith, hosted by the Iranian-American religious scholar. In a statement issued Friday, the network said, “CNN has decided to not move forward with production on the acquired series Believer with Reza Aslan. We wish Reza and his production team all the best."

This comes after aggressive conservative backlash to a couple of tweets from Aslan about President Donald Trump. The best-selling author of Zealot and No god but God described Trump as “a piece of shit” and "not just an embarrassment to America and a stain on the presidency" but also "an embarrassment to humankind."

Moliere wrote:CNN Cuts Ties With Reza Aslan Over Anti-Trump Tweet

CNN has canceled Believer With Reza Aslan, a series about faith, hosted by the Iranian-American religious scholar. In a statement issued Friday, the network said, “CNN has decided to not move forward with production on the acquired series Believer with Reza Aslan. We wish Reza and his production team all the best."

This comes after aggressive conservative backlash to a couple of tweets from Aslan about President Donald Trump. The best-selling author of Zealot and No god but God described Trump as “a piece of shit” and "not just an embarrassment to America and a stain on the presidency" but also "an embarrassment to humankind."

I think that as far as CNN goes, that might be the last straw for me - they keep imbeciles like Jeffrey Lord and Kayleigh Whats-Her-Name, but they don't like the fact that Aslan called Trump a piece of shit? He's not the first and he certainly won't be the last, seeing as the shoe fits and all... I still like Anderson Cooper but his show has become borderline unwatchable anyway, since his panels now feature more mouthbreathing Trump supporters than they do anyone with half a brain.

Senate Rules Committee today announced that reporters are not allowed to film ad-hoc interviews with senators in the hallways without requesting approval in advance from the senator AND the Rules Committee. Not only is it insane, it's unenforceable (unless all senators plan on taking a page out of Gianforte's book).

gilraen wrote:I still like Anderson Cooper but his show has become borderline unwatchable anyway, since his panels now feature more mouthbreathing Trump supporters than they do anyone with half a brain.

Both Fox and CNN love having panels discussing every nonsense story out there. It's pointless. Everyone talks over each other and makes the same talking point supporting whatever side they are supposed to be representing. It's certainly not news so I suppose it can be called entertainment.

gilraen wrote:Senate Rules Committee today announced that reporters are not allowed to film ad-hoc interviews with senators in the hallways without requesting approval in advance from the senator AND the Rules Committee. Not only is it insane, it's unenforceable (unless all senators plan on taking a page out of Gianforte's book).

It's almost like they're expecting some earth-shattering news to hit the airwaves and don't want random senators to give their thoughts before they receive a memo from the GOP on their collective talking points first.

I don't often watch cable news but was at the gym and they had Fox, CNN, and MSNBC on. CNN and MSNBC covered the shooting and the Trump investigation announcement. Fox was all about the 'Out of Control Violence on the Left.'

Not that this was the last straw individually (I cancelled my NY Times subscription last week) but more evidence that they have lost it. This was a front page story. The Times even mentions that political contributions aren't to be a basis for hiring decisions...which makes the headline even more irresponsible. Not a dollar more from me (unless there is serious reform at least).

malchior wrote:Not that this was the last straw individually (I cancelled my NY Times subscription last week) but more evidence that they have lost it. This was a front page story. The Times even mentions that political contributions aren't to be a basis for hiring decisions...which makes the headline even more irresponsible. Not a dollar more from me (unless there is serious reform at least).

I don't get it. What am I missing here? I don't see anything wrong with that article. It reports on Gingrich's stupid suggestion that Mueller and his team are biased, and it does a really good job of debunking that suggestion. Do you want the NYT to just ignore what's being bandied about in the GOP echo chamber? The real thrust of the article is, as the headline states, "Robert Mueller, known for being above the fray, Is now in the thick of It." Mueller has built a career on staying above politics, but he's going to have a tough time doing that in this environment. OUTRAGE!!!!!

Also, edited to add, I re-read that article and there is NO way a reasonable reader would come away with the notion that the NYT is suggesting that the political contributions of the 3 prosecutors at issue are a "big deal." That's completely contrary to the article.

I agree with Kurth. I don't get the outrage.

Kurth wrote:

malchior wrote:Not that this was the last straw individually (I cancelled my NY Times subscription last week) but more evidence that they have lost it. This was a front page story. The Times even mentions that political contributions aren't to be a basis for hiring decisions...which makes the headline even more irresponsible. Not a dollar more from me (unless there is serious reform at least).

I don't get it. What am I missing here? I don't see anything wrong with that article. It reports on Gingrich's stupid suggestion that Mueller and his team are biased, and it does a really good job of debunking that suggestion. Do you want the NYT to just ignore what's being bandied about in the GOP echo chamber? The real thrust of the article is, as the headline states, "Robert Mueller, known for being above the fray, Is now in the thick of It." Mueller has built a career on staying above politics, but he's going to have a tough time doing that in this environment. OUTRAGE!!!!!

Also, edited to add, I re-read that article and there is NO way a reasonable reader would come away with the notion that the NYT is suggesting that the political contributions of the 3 prosecutors at issue are a "big deal." That's completely contrary to the article.

That isn't my complaint - the complaint is that the GOP throws out talking points and the NY Times puts them on the front page elevating their relevance. It didn't deserve front page treatment. The headline also is click-bait-y but I suppose more exciting than 'GOP yet again raises bullshit talking points (but we need to print something!)'. I'd agree the tweet overstates the contributions angle.

But trying to blame Sarah Palin for Giffords being shot didn't bother any of you at all I am sure?

Yea, didn't think so.

Rip wrote:But trying to blame Sarah Palin for Giffords being shot didn't bother any of you at all I am sure?

Yea, didn't think so.

[citation needed]

Isgrimnur wrote:

Rip wrote:But trying to blame Sarah Palin for Giffords being shot didn't bother any of you at all I am sure?

Yea, didn't think so.

[citation needed]

Of course they altered the story now because a lot of people called them out on it, but here you go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-york ... rds-2017-6

Your implication was that it didn't bother us. Linking a media detraction says nothing about your unsupported claim that we didn't have a problem with it.

Aren't those goalposts heavy? You should stop trying to move them.

Isgrimnur wrote:Your implication was that it didn't bother us. Linking a media detraction says nothing about your unsupported claim that we didn't have a problem with it.

Aren't those goalposts heavy? You should stop trying to move them.

Well there certainly wasn't any issues voiced although there was plenty of time to voice opposition to a bunch of other less revolting crap.

Quit your bullshit.

malchior wrote:

Kurth wrote:

malchior wrote:Not that this was the last straw individually (I cancelled my NY Times subscription last week) but more evidence that they have lost it. This was a front page story. The Times even mentions that political contributions aren't to be a basis for hiring decisions...which makes the headline even more irresponsible. Not a dollar more from me (unless there is serious reform at least).

I don't get it. What am I missing here? I don't see anything wrong with that article. It reports on Gingrich's stupid suggestion that Mueller and his team are biased, and it does a really good job of debunking that suggestion. Do you want the NYT to just ignore what's being bandied about in the GOP echo chamber? The real thrust of the article is, as the headline states, "Robert Mueller, known for being above the fray, Is now in the thick of It." Mueller has built a career on staying above politics, but he's going to have a tough time doing that in this environment. OUTRAGE!!!!!

Also, edited to add, I re-read that article and there is NO way a reasonable reader would come away with the notion that the NYT is suggesting that the political contributions of the 3 prosecutors at issue are a "big deal." That's completely contrary to the article.

That isn't my complaint - the complaint is that the GOP throws out talking points and the NY Times puts them on the front page elevating their relevance. It didn't deserve front page treatment. The headline also is click-bait-y but I suppose more exciting than 'GOP yet again raises bullshit talking points (but we need to print something!)'. I'd agree the tweet overstates the contributions angle.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one I think. That article is light on GOP talking points and heavy on how Mueller is going to navigate the political mine field he's been thrust into. That is, in my opinion, certainly a topic worthy of front page news. And that headline isn't even close to click bait-y. I HATE the sensationalism of our current media (Comey testimony countdown clock, anyone?), but the only thing remotely sensational here is that Boehlert tweet. No dirt on the Times here. Maybe you should think about resubscribing?

Just putting this tweet here for posterity. 16 million people getting kicked off healthcare and those who manage to keep it paying far more money out of pocket is orders of magnitude more important than some guy on coke talking shit.

Finally, Real News from a source you can trust.

Alefroth wrote:Finally, Real News from a source you can trust.

"Let us finish the building of the Paektusan Hero Youth Power Station No. 3 and the Wonsan Army-People Power Station at a time fixed by the Party without fail!"

I am cross-posting this link from the NK thread because it's more appropriate here. If you didn't read it there, I strongly recommend How America Lost Its Mind. It's long, because explaining how truth died is complicated. I promise it's worth your time.

A tangent post from the investigation thread about the "Forensicator" article in The Nation. Talk about garbage journalism. Apparently someone at NY Mag saw some of the same basic flaws in the analysis - The Nation Article About the DNC Hack Is Too Incoherent to Even Debunk. I disagree with the headline premise ( obviously ) but how far the Nation has fallen.

In other news, CNN severs ties with Jeffrey Lord.

He annoys the hell out of me, and his endless defense of Trump is ridiculous. That said, I don't agree with this. His tweet of "Sieg Heil" to the Media Matters guy during a heated twitter fight about fascism (Lord was calling the MM guy a fascist for shutting down speech), was clearly not laudatory of fascism or Nazis. He was clearly calling the MM guy a "liberal Nazi" and was mocking Nazis and fascists. Not cause for dismissal. By and large, CNN sucks, but, then again, that's nothing new.

Anyone hoping to read it for careful reporting and clear explanation is going to come away disappointed, however.

Ha!

I tried for a few minutes and gave up before becoming disappointed.

Kraken wrote:I am cross-posting this link from the NK thread because it's more appropriate here. If you didn't read it there, I strongly recommend How America Lost Its Mind. It's long, because explaining how truth died is complicated. I promise it's worth your time.

Definitely worth reading!

It's essentially a history of ideas in our time and how they've led to the alt-facts that are ruining us.

I think what history should focus on is Donald Trump has gotten *great press* for being terrible his whole life. And when he does something normal they go *insane*. The once great NY Times published another real winner here in this vein yesterday. Somehow making a minor bipartisan deal is upending the entire political order? You have to wonder if Trump is sending MDMA to the press at this point. This is over the rainbow bizarre stuff. A good portion of the press is freaking out because the man worked to get the debt ceiling raised for three months. So that they can get a huge regressive Corporate tax cut enacted. That sure feels like the beginning of a new order. What it actually tells me is that this is a view about how our political system is broken and that influential members of the MSM are complete hacks.

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Saturday that he will ask the Republican-controlled Congress to further speed up its efforts to overhaul the U.S. tax code, citing the potential impact of Hurricane Irma as a reason to hasten reforms.

"I think now with what's happened with the hurricane, I'm going to ask for a speedup. I wanted a speedup anyway, but now we need it even more so," the president said at the outset of a Cabinet meeting at Camp David. The White House released a video of his remarks.

Trump urged Congress in a Friday tweet not to wait until the end of September for tax legislation.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-calls-t ... iness.html

Enjoy, he gave you a debt ceiling deal with the last hurricane package so it is only fair to look for the reach around on this one.

The Mangerine doesn't reach around, he grabs.

malchior wrote:I think what history should focus on is Donald Trump has gotten *great press* for being terrible his whole life. And when he does something normal they go *insane*. The once great NY Times published another real winner here in this vein yesterday. Somehow making a minor bipartisan deal is upending the entire political order? You have to wonder if Trump is sending MDMA to the press at this point. This is over the rainbow bizarre stuff. A good portion of the press is freaking out because the man worked to get the debt ceiling raised for three months. So that they can get a huge regressive Corporate tax cut enacted. That sure feels like the beginning of a new order. What it actually tells me is that this is a view about how our political system is broken and that influential members of the MSM are complete hacks.

This little episode was a mess, but I also don't think it will have much effect.

A small handful of MSM outlets presented Trump's temporary deal as something novel (which it was), but the pushback from other MSM outlets (including reporters and pundits belonging to the influential first responders) has been immense.

The "Wrongheaded Editorials Call Trump an Independent" takes have already far overtaken the "Trump is an Independent" takes.

In any case, it will all be buried next week when Trump declares a -25% tax rate on Russian-owned properties and people named Trump.

Let us observe a solemn moment of derision for Paul Horner, the writer of fake news, who was found dead of a probable accidental overdose.

Horner took on greater prominence during the presidential election when false stories were widely shared on social media during the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton.

In an interview with The Washington Post in 2016, Horner said he thought Trump won the White House because of him. Horner said Trump's supporters didn't fact-check his stories before posting them.

"My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don't fact-check anything — they'll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist," he told The Washington Post in November.

Thanks, dude; you made a difference.

Kraken wrote:Let us observe a solemn moment of derision for Paul Horner, the writer of fake news, who was found dead of a probable accidental overdose.

Horner took on greater prominence during the presidential election when false stories were widely shared on social media during the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton.

In an interview with The Washington Post in 2016, Horner said he thought Trump won the White House because of him. Horner said Trump's supporters didn't fact-check his stories before posting them.

"My sites were picked up by Trump supporters all the time. I think Trump is in the White House because of me. His followers don't fact-check anything — they'll post everything, believe anything. His campaign manager posted my story about a protester getting paid $3,500 as fact. Like, I made that up. I posted a fake ad on Craigslist," he told The Washington Post in November.

Thanks, dude; you made a difference.

Shouldn't this be in the Clinton thread?