Octopus Overlords

Those who seem to want to short-circuit the racial reckoning that began with the killing of George Floyd, and continued with the campaign against Confederate statues, have shifted the focus to something new: The handful of incidents in which protesters have objected to historical figures with more complex legacies, such as George Washington and Theodore Roosevelt.

Those were men never associated with the Confederacy, and critics of this year’s uprisings see the movement against them as examples that things have already gone too far. Now, as if to prove them right, others are calling for tearing down European-looking depictions of Jesus.

Clearly, it’s time to pause the debate, deepen and recenter a discussion we’ve never really had. Instead of letting scattered uprisings (or the police) decide which statues should remain and which should go, we should first answer the bigger questions about why they’re there at all, and what we are really remembering.

That sounds obvious, but in fact it quickly leads to questions many Americans would prefer to avoid, such as: If the goal really is to honor and never forget our history, why doesn’t the Washington Monument make it clear that on the day George Washington died, there were more than 300 enslaved Black people still toiling on his estate? And that during his life, our first president had those he enslaved whipped when they didn’t work hard enough, or tried to run to freedom? And that he did this even as a growing number of others around him actively opposed slavery and committed their lives to abolition?

Such questions may sound like blasphemy to many white Americans. But this isn’t an argument about determining whether a former leader was “good” or “bad,” or an attempt to “cancel” George Washington. I’m not suggesting that flawed leaders shouldn’t be honored. Every leader, especially those who lived hundreds of years ago, is flawed. Refusing to acknowledge anything but the bad in our shared historical narrative would make it harder, not easier, to learn from our past. We can’t purge these figures from our history without also purging our memories of what made this country possible and unique. Having said that, it’s also true that what Washington, other founders and 10 of this nation’s first 12 presidents did—enslaving people —wasn’t just a “mistake.” It isn’t akin to having an illicit affair in the White House with an intern, or even having henchmen break into the Watergate office building.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:54 pm For those unaware:

"The AFFH rule sets out a framework for local governments, States & public housing agencies to take meaningful actions to overcome historic patterns of segregation, promote fair housing choice, and foster inclusive communities that are free from discrimination."

130K Americans dead from a virus, protests, and he's blathering about ending housing regulations.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:03 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:54 pm For those unaware:

"The AFFH rule sets out a framework for local governments, States & public housing agencies to take meaningful actions to overcome historic patterns of segregation, promote fair housing choice, and foster inclusive communities that are free from discrimination."

130K Americans dead from a virus, protests, and he's blathering about ending housing regulations.

The dog whistles are just going to get clearer and clearer.

By September it'll be "THE SILENT MAJORITY WILL WIN THE RACE WAR!!"

Kilmeade then asked Trump: "Since you have done a lot for the African-American community, what is your message to them when their ancestors were enslaved because of [these leaders who are commemorated on these monuments]?"

What should have been a relatively easy answer and an apology from Trump for the history of injustice and inequality forced upon Black Americans, turned into a complete mess of an answer, turned into Trump telling Black people to learn US history or risk "going back to it again."

(Trump): "My message is that we have a great country, we have the greatest country on Earth. We have a heritage, we have a history and we should learn from the history, and if you don’t understand your history, you will go back to it again. You will go right back to it. You have to learn. Think of it, you take away that whole era and you’re going to go back to it sometime. People won’t know about it. They’re going to forget about it. It’s okay.

Now what I do like, I like the idea of building new statues to people, to great people. People that have done something. And I think that’s okay.

But you don’t want to take away our heritage and history and the beauty, in many cases, the beauty, the artistic beauty. Some of the sculptures and some of this work is some of the great — you can go to France, you can go anywhere in the world and you will never see more magnificent work. And that’s a factor. It’s not the biggest factor but it’s a factor."

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:49 am

What should have been a relatively easy answer and an apology from Trump

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:28 pm Just got an e-mail from Boston University, my alma mater. The Terrier mascot used by the school is named Rhett, which is associated with Gone With The Wind. Because Gone With The Wind includes depictions and references to slavery and the Confederacy, the school is charging an administrator with running a review to consider changing the name.

Take that, racism.

The often snarling, bi-pedal black and white Boston Terrier was later named after the male lead in Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, because "No one loves Scarlett more than Rhett" referencing Rhett Butler's affection for Scarlett O'Hara (scarlet is BU's primary color).

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:41 pm Was going to ask if it was an historical association or just a coincidence but Wikipedia handled it:

The often snarling, bi-pedal black and white Boston Terrier was later named after the male lead in Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, because "No one loves Scarlett more than Rhett" referencing Rhett Butler's affection for Scarlett O'Hara (scarlet is BU's primary color).

That's just weird.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:39 pm I nominate the name Wahlberg.

NYC is cutting Police $’s by ONE BILLION DOLLARS, and yet the @NYCMayor is going to paint a big, expensive, yellow Black Lives Matter sign on Fifth Avenue, denigrating this luxury Avenue. This will further antagonize New York’s Finest, who LOVE New York & vividly remember the....

....horrible BLM chant, “Pigs In A Blanket, Fry ‘Em Like Bacon”. Maybe our GREAT Police, who have been neutralized and scorned by a mayor who hates & disrespects them, won’t let this symbol of hate be affixed to New York’s greatest street. Spend this money fighting crime instead!

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:51 pm He's given up on any attempt whatsoever at courting the African American vote.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 pm Dan they please put a BLM mural across from Trump Towers.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:02 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:51 pm He's given up on any attempt whatsoever at courting the African American vote.

To be fair that ship sailed in the 70s for the most part and was dead as a door nail in 1989. This is who he always was.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:41 pm Was going to ask if it was an historical association or just a coincidence but Wikipedia handled it:

The often snarling, bi-pedal black and white Boston Terrier was later named after the male lead in Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, because "No one loves Scarlett more than Rhett" referencing Rhett Butler's affection for Scarlett O'Hara (scarlet is BU's primary color).

That's just weird.

They should rename it solely because the origin of the name is stupid.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:21 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:02 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:51 pm He's given up on any attempt whatsoever at courting the African American vote.

To be fair that ship sailed in the 70s for the most part and was dead as a door nail in 1989. This is who he always was.

The last poll I saw had Blacks going for Biden by 91% vs. 3%, so trump has very little to lose by doubling down on hatred.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:35 pm He's rallying the loyal extremists.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:36 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:35 pm He's rallying the loyal extremists.

Yeah, but he already has the bulk of them. Seems highly probable that he's losing more people in the middle then he's gaining on the edge.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:40 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:36 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:35 pm He's rallying the loyal extremists.

Yeah, but he already has the bulk of them. Seems highly probable that he's losing more people in the middle then he's gaining on the edge.

Gaining people isn't the goal. Not of the dog whistles, anyway. It's to encourage and embolden the extremists that stroke his ego.

He's probably also expecting he will need them in November, and I'm not talking about in the voting booth.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:44 pm Trump (or his Wormtongue, Stephen Miller) wants to motivate the hard-core right and the police to act more vigorously and violently in response to protesters.

Trump believes that civil unrest works in his favor, and that blood in urban streets will bring suburban whites back to his side. That's what all the "LAW AND ORDER!" tweets are about.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:47 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:44 pm Trump (or his Wormtongue, Stephen Miller) wants to motivate the hard-core right and the police to act more vigorously and violently in response to protesters.

Trump believes that civil unrest works in his favor, and that blood in urban streets will bring suburban whites back to his side. That's what all the "LAW AND ORDER!" tweets are about.

Yeah, although I think he's mostly mistaken about that. Or at least, that he's not smart enough to do this in a politically beneficial way.

As demonstrators marched along his private street in St. Louis, Mark McCloskey and his wife emerged barefoot from their mansion, brandishing loaded weapons at the crowd in what many read as an act of intimidation. Video of the scene instantly went viral, at one point even being retweeted — and then deleted — by President Trump.

But in an interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo on Tuesday night, McCloskey said he and his wife, Patricia, were in fact the ones being threatened.

“I was a victim of a mob that came through the gate,” he said. “I didn’t care what color they were. I didn’t care what their motivation was. I was frightened, I was assaulted, and I was in imminent fear that they would run me over, kill me, burn my house.”
...
Albert Watkins, a St. Louis attorney for the McCloskeys, said in a statement to The Washington Post that they “acted lawfully” out of “fear and apprehension.” The confrontation was not race-related, he added, and white “agitators” were responsible for provoking the white couple.

“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” Watkins told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. It is unclear whether anyone in the group was armed, as he claimed to Fox News.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:28 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:33 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:41 pm Was going to ask if it was an historical association or just a coincidence but Wikipedia handled it:

The often snarling, bi-pedal black and white Boston Terrier was later named after the male lead in Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, because "No one loves Scarlett more than Rhett" referencing Rhett Butler's affection for Scarlett O'Hara (scarlet is BU's primary color).

That's just weird.

They should rename it solely because the origin of the name is stupid.

Yeah, it's funny. If you'd asked me this morning what the name of the Terrier was I'm not sure that I'd have known. It's fine if they want to change it, but the whole thing is so stupid that I hope that the administration isn't spending significant time on it.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 pm WaPo

As demonstrators marched along his private street in St. Louis, Mark McCloskey and his wife emerged barefoot from their mansion, brandishing loaded weapons at the crowd in what many read as an act of intimidation. Video of the scene instantly went viral, at one point even being retweeted — and then deleted — by President Trump.

But in an interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo on Tuesday night, McCloskey said he and his wife, Patricia, were in fact the ones being threatened.

“I was a victim of a mob that came through the gate,” he said. “I didn’t care what color they were. I didn’t care what their motivation was. I was frightened, I was assaulted, and I was in imminent fear that they would run me over, kill me, burn my house.”
...
Albert Watkins, a St. Louis attorney for the McCloskeys, said in a statement to The Washington Post that they “acted lawfully” out of “fear and apprehension.” The confrontation was not race-related, he added, and white “agitators” were responsible for provoking the white couple.

“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” Watkins told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. It is unclear whether anyone in the group was armed, as he claimed to Fox News.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:34 pm It's almost as if they're being disingenuous. Who would do that, go on tv and tell lies?

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:38 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:34 pm It's almost as if they're being disingenuous. Who would do that, go on tv and tell lies?

what a load of crap. yeah CHOP was a target that attracted white supremecists and gang-banger wannabes alike, but the population of the occupied protest itself was behaving. the main impetus behind this happening today was council member Shawant leading a protest in front of mayor Durkan's house earlier this week, effectively doxxing her private residence. Durkan wants revenge and is seeking it out in several ways.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:40 pm i'm feeling pretty okay about erasing Mount Rushmore now

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... rump-sioux

Wikipedia wrote:Borglum was a member of the Ku Klux Klan. He was one of the six knights who sat on the Imperial Koncilium in 1923, which transferred leadership of the Ku Klux Klan from Imperial Wizard Colonel Simmons to Imperial Wizard Hiram Evans. In 1925, having only completed the head of Robert E. Lee, Borglum was dismissed from the Stone Mountain project, with some holding that it came about due to infighting within the KKK, with Borglum involved in the strife.

Later, he stated "I am not a member of the Kloncilium, nor a knight of the KKK," but Howard Shaff and Audrey Karl Shaff add that "that was for public consumption." The museum at Mount Rushmore displays a letter to Borglum from D.C. Stephenson, the infamous Klan Grand Dragon who later was convicted of the rape and murder of Madge Oberholtzer. The 8x10 foot portrait contains the inscription "To my good friend Gutzon Borglum, with the greatest respect." Correspondence from Borglum to Stephenson during the 1920s detailed a deep racist conviction in Nordic moral superiority and strict immigration policies.