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Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:42 pm
by Octavious
I think it would be more likely for him to pressure whoever is the governor to do it. I mean even on the right wing sites a lot of the comments were that these guys were toast. So I'd firmly say that they are just f'd.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:44 pm
by Isgrimnur
CNN
The men each faced the same nine counts, and verdicts were as follows:

• Travis McMichael, who fatally shot Arbery, is guilty on all charges: malice murder, four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony;

• His father, Gregory McMichael, who rode armed in the bed of a pickup truck as his son pursued Arbery, is not guilty of malice murder but guilty on the other eight charges.

• And William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., a neighbor who joined the pursuit and filmed Arbery's final moments, is guilty of three counts of felony murder, one count of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony. Bryan was cleared on the charge of malice murder, felony murder involving aggravated assault with a firearm and the count of aggravated assault with a firearm.
...
The sentencing date for the men is unclear. Prosecutors have indicated they will seek sentences of life in prison without hte possibility of parole.

The McMichaels and Bryan were also indicted on hate crime charges in federal court, where they're scheduled to go on trial in February on counts of interference of rights and attempted kidnapping. The McMichaels each face an additional charge of using, carrying, brandishing and discharging a firearm during and in relation to a crime of violence. The men have pleaded not guilty.

Arbery's mother, Wanda Cooper-Jones, has filed civil claims against the McMichaels, Bryan and police and prosecutorial officials.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:49 pm
by Skinypupy
Feels like this needs to be repeated, given the title of the thread.


Remember, if local authorities in Georgia had their way, no one would have ever been charged for the murder of Ahmaud Arbery.

It took weeks of protest before charges were even brought in the case, 74 days after Arbery was shot and killed in February 2020.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:59 pm
by Octavious
If these three master criminals didn't film the whole thing it would have been swept under the rug for sure. AMERICA!

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:50 pm
by Holman
Octavious wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:34 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:32 pm President can't pardon state crimes.
Whew thank you. That man has made me instantly think worst case scenarios now. :P
Georgia is practically a purple state now, with lots of black voters. Kemp pardoning these guys would be his endorsement of Stacey Abrams for his job in 2022.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:05 pm
by Octavious
With their "enhanced" election laws they can just toss most of them out. :P The Georgia changes were wayyyy worse than what Texas did. They can pretty much go into a county toss out the people running it and do whatever they want. This ballot has a folded corner rejected!

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:14 pm
by Jaymann
Apparently the defense dropped the ball when he didn't claim the defendants were in fear for their lives from the discolored toenails.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:00 pm
by malchior
I'm happy with the result but don't forget the system tried to cover this up for them. It took sustained public pressure to get this properly investigated.


Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:08 pm
by Alefroth
Why were there four counts of felony murder?

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:04 pm
by Isgrimnur
ABC News
HOW CAN THERE BE FIVE MURDER COUNTS WHEN ONLY ONE PERSON DIED?

In this case, the prosecution is saying that the three men demonstrated “malice aforethought” when they illegally chased Arbery through the streets in pickup trucks and shot him. That's the basis for the malice murder charge.

But they're also saying that the three men intentionally committed four felonies — two counts of aggravated assault and one count each of false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment — and each of those felonies caused Arbery's death.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:26 am
by Grifman

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:39 am
by hepcat
What are the odds that if the name change was to Trump Ave. or Reagan Ave. it would have been met with enthusiastic support by those decrying this change?

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:51 pm
by Jaymann
Nice to see "Jeff" liked to keep things casual.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:22 pm
by Default
Intentionally repaint the the signs as Jiff Davis and add peanut stickers.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:38 pm
by Grifman
malchior wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:00 pm I'm happy with the result but don't forget the system tried to cover this up for them. It took sustained public pressure to get this properly investigated.

I'm not clear as to why point 2 is brought up as some indication of the system not working. The prosecutor did the right thing by recusing himself - he certainly couldn't help that he knew the defendants.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:56 pm
by malchior
The whole thing was pretty messy. I'll let the NY Times do some of the talking. If I remember correctly, he recused himself only after he provided some cover for them despite the conflict. He sent a letter that is exerpted below and the recusal came after sustained public pressure. Also worth mentioning is the local police tried to cover it up. Only after the video which the police had leaked did Kemp insert the GBI into the process. A lot of people worked hard to get justice for this man.
But, before the second prosecutor’s recusal, he said in a letter obtained by The Times:

“It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael and Bryan Williams were following in ‘hot pursuit,’ a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia law this is perfectly legal.”
The recused prosecutor’s letter states: “Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”
Edit: One more interesting piece in the Atlantic talking about the injustice that almost happened here. This was an unordinary result and it seems certain that this isn't normal. Which is bad in my book.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:55 pm
by Kurth
The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.

Edited to add: Also, on further reflection, I’m probably being too casual in characterizing the verdict as one “that should have been expected.” Leading up to the verdict, I was actually deeply pessimistic that the jury would return a guilty verdict. I had read and listened to a number of stories (including a great episode of the Daily) that painted the prosecution as really swimming against the stream on this case given the crazy self defense laws in existence in GA at the time of Arbery’s murder. Those laws were so nutso and so many thought they would result in an innocent verdict for Arbery’s killers that the laws were actually changed after the killing.

So, not only is it ok for us to be happy about this verdict because justice was done, but we can also be happy about this verdict because it was by no means a sure thing that a jury in GA with one black member listened to three white defendants (two of whom had close connections to law enforcement) trot out a defense filled with racist tropes and dog whistles and then proceeded to vote unanimously to find those defendants guilty, even in the face of legitimate legal arguments that may have excused their conduct under the controlling laws at the time.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:04 pm
by Holman
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:55 pm The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.
Modern-day racist lynch gang almost escaped prosecution but got exposed through extraordinary efforts and my response is supposed to be... happiness?

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:07 pm
by Kurth
Holman wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:04 pm
Kurth wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:55 pm The turn this thread has taken lately reminds me of an opinion piece in the NYT this past week: How Can Liberals Be More Happy?

We took about 2 seconds to be gratified and express relief that the jury reached the correct verdict and justice was, for once, done. Then we immediately turned to bemoaning and despairing the fact that we were gratified and relieved by a verdict that should have been expected if we lived in a less racist world.

I’m not at all suggesting that we shouldn’t keep our eyes on the fact that the system remains deeply flawed.

But we should remember that it’s ok to be happy that something turned out the way it should have for once.
Modern-day racist lynch gang almost escaped prosecution but got exposed through extraordinary efforts and my response is supposed to be... happiness?
Yes. Yes it is. And see above (edited after your post).

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 12:19 pm
by LawBeefaroni
It's not over in the Arbery case. Sentencing is still still to come, plus the inevitable appeals. Also federal hate crime trials.

Re: Racism in America (with data)

Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:01 pm
by malchior
It's a mix for me. Happy with the outcome but unhappy with the circumstances in general.