The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:55 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 12:23 pm

Also, him being a terrible client is a big factor, but I think the bigger factors are: (1) he has a history of not paying people who work for him; and (2) he's so radioactive that for most firms they would probably lose more business than they would gain (and lose some valuable staff) by taking him on as a client.

That's a violation of his 1st Amendments!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 1:49 pm

Love how our esteemed former Governor sat on this relevant information for 2 decades.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:43 pm

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 4:59 pm

In other fun, it's becoming clear that MAGAt judge Cannon is dragging her feet on DOJ motions and the special master decision. She rushed over a holiday weekend to deliver Trump delay but has sat on this decision for a week delaying a national security review (probably illegally). DOJ had set a deadline on when they'd be appealing her decisions to the 11th circuit. That's today and as I understand it, it's very unusual. Perhaps they are trying to manage the usual Trump delaying tactics.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:09 pm

Surprise surprise. At the last minute she denies their motion.

Remember almost every non-MAGA lawyer in the land thinks this whole thing is a crock of shit.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:18 pm

Yup. This is a farce. Of course he never said he declassified them in court.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:48 pm

Dearie is mandated to review the 100 classified docs first. He should be able to do that quickly enough.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:57 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:48 pm Dearie is mandated to review the 100 classified docs first. He should be able to do that quickly enough.

Yeah I imagine he'll move quickly as soon as he is able to get up to speed but still the whole thing is banana republic law at this point. But still every decision Trump doesn't like will get appealed to the same judge. It'll potentially be a slog. Let's hope the 11th rejects her madness.

Edit: Apparently she also ordered Trump's lawyers to be given access to the documents. It's insane that top national security personnel couldn't see this stuff but this hack judge is ordering access given to Trump's moron lawyers. Our security partners have to be quietly melting down.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:58 pm

Things are taking an even more absurd turn. The guy in charge of running down the Russia investigation leads in 2016 and someone Mueller would have absolutely had to rely on is being investigated for possibly...taking money from Russian intelligence assets. Nothing is substantiated yet but still absolutely bonkers that we are living in a crappy Tom Clancy book.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:48 pm

One more post tonight - a great run down of the issues.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:28 pm

Oof…that was brutal.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am

Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:43 am

Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?

I’m expecting an emergency injunction from the appellate court.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:48 am

Beau knows Florida Man:

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:51 am

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:43 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?
I’m expecting an emergency injunction from the appellate court.

You'd hope but rule of law is really in sad shape right now. The 11th court is packed with FedSoc Trump judges too.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:29 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:51 am
Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:43 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?
I’m expecting an emergency injunction from the appellate court.
You'd hope but rule of law is really in sad shape right now. The 11th court is packed with FedSoc Trump judges too.

Who controls the panel assignment in the circuit courts? I understand that it's meant to be random, but do we have an understanding of the actual mechanics of the process?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:37 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:43 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?
I’m expecting an emergency injunction from the appellate court.

I'm hopeful, but not expectant.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:04 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:29 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:51 am
Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:43 am
Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:25 am Letting Trump's attorneys see the documents is just mind boggling. Can any of the clowns he's hired even obtain the proper clearance?
I’m expecting an emergency injunction from the appellate court.
You'd hope but rule of law is really in sad shape right now. The 11th court is packed with FedSoc Trump judges too.
Who controls the panel assignment in the circuit courts? I understand that it's meant to be random, but do we have an understanding of the actual mechanics of the process?

Info

According to that, it's the Clerk's Office.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:16 pm

Jeez.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:33 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:16 pm Jeez.

I'm confused. He thinks that she picked that judge as special master with the expectation that he'll rule against Trump on the substantive matters? Is there any reason to think that?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:48 pm

I think she's just passing it off to anyone so she doesn't have to rule against Trump.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:02 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:33 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:16 pm Jeez.

I'm confused. He thinks that she picked that judge as special master with the expectation that he'll rule against Trump on the substantive matters? Is there any reason to think that?

The DOJ was good with the guy selected, right? So you'd have to hope he's impartial (which likely means he'd rule against Trump if legal Twitter is any indication).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:10 pm

NPR: What to know about Judge Raymond Dearie, the Mar-a-Lago search special master

People interviewed by NPR who know Dearie describe him as "fair"
Andrew Weissmann, a federal prosecutor, a former senior member of special counsel Robert Mueller's team and a special master himself, described Dearie as "compassionate" and "fair" and the "platonic ideal of what you want in a judge."

"If you asked both prosecutors and lawyers, they would say the same thing, that he is just so fair," Weissmann said. "It's unusual to have a judge where both sides just have enormous praise for somebody."

When Weissmann was starting out as a federal prosecutor in Brooklyn, the judge was late for a court appearance. "A few days later, I got in the mail a handwritten apology from him," Weissmann recalled. The defense lawyer got the same letter from the judge. "It was just remarkable because judges have a lot of power — they don't need to do that," Weissmann said.

And in a statement to NPR, Daniel R. Alonso, partner at Buckley LLP and a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of New York, called Dearie an "old-school gentleman and unfailingly polite."

"Judge Dearie is a judge who, though unfailingly fair, would never tolerate the kinds of arguments that Trump's lawyers tend to put forward," Alonso said.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:12 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:33 pm
malchior wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:16 pm Jeez.

I'm confused. He thinks that she picked that judge as special master with the expectation that he'll rule against Trump on the substantive matters? Is there any reason to think that?

I think he is saying she was too chicken to make the straight decision she should have. Instead she wrote preposterous decisions and she invited a situation where she ended up having to put those otherwise straight forward decisions into someone else's hands. That person just happens to be someone he trusts and thinks is competent.

Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:48 pm I think she's just passing it off to anyone so she doesn't have to rule against Trump.

It's possible - some people think she is just afraid of MAGAt blowback. I don't buy it. She was so prejudicial and ignored straight facts presented to her. She is either a complete nitwit or she is in the bag for MAGA. Both are possible. What's clear is she is a complete disgrace and that's why you are seeing fairly straight up senior legal thinkers completely bashing her.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:24 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:02 pmThe DOJ was good with the guy selected, right? So you'd have to hope he's impartial (which likely means he'd rule against Trump if legal Twitter is any indication).

I don't think too many folks are worried about his impartiality. They are more worried about the shenanigans that Cannon will allow and the space for Trump's usual delay tactics. We'll see how hands off she is with this Special Master but she has shown that she is someone the public shouldn't have any faith in.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:59 am

NY Times

Lots of information in this article I'd practically have to paste in the article so instead I'll sum it up:

Trump met with a former White House lawyer from his administration last year - Eric Herschmann

He warned Trump that there was a risk of prosecution if he didn't return classified docs

Trump was noncommittal about returning docs

Trump did end up returning some to NARA
- These were the original 15 boxes of documents

NARA found classified docs in those 15 boxes and referred to DOJ which started the current chain of events

The article then turns to the special master proceedings
- Trump's legal team complained about the speed of the process (no shit!)
- Trump's team wanted Drearie as Special Master because they think he doesn't like the FBI because he ruled against FISA warrants of Carter Page

Not reported in this article but reported elsewhere in the media Trump's team also complained about a Special Master request to explain declassification criteria. Having absolutely nothing and not wanting to actually argue that Trump chanted a declassification spell they made an argument that explaining the declassification spell would undermine a defense against the possible indictments. No shit! Too bad the truth is inconvenient for getting away with criming. Guess we'll see what happens but this whole process is such a farce.

I'll say it again anyone else would be in prison, not potentially still running around with classified documents stashed elsewhere. I can't wait to read all the accounts in 3-5 years about how the United States DOJ fumbling this affair so badly killed off tons of international intelligence cooperation.

A onetime White House lawyer under President Donald J. Trump warned him late last year that Mr. Trump could face legal liability if he did not return government materials he had taken with him when he left office, three people familiar with the matter said.

The lawyer, Eric Herschmann, sought to impress upon Mr. Trump the seriousness of the issue and the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents, particularly any classified material, the people said.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:42 am

This thread is a good explanation of Trump's response to the Special Master (ignore the red sirens).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:18 am

I also ignore anything suggesting that TFG should regret anything...until something actually happens to stop his full on assault against our democracy. Still it does appear that Drearie does intend to move this along which is great. Let's see what happens.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 am

Your loss.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.

Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me. We've been hearing this in increasing shades of intensity for 6 years now in its current form. Those of us who live in the tri-state have seen it since the 80s. Forgive me if watching "rule of law" fail for this long leaves me incredibly jaded about it. For those who have faith...I hope you're right but the sirens/red alerts? It's self-parodying behavior at this point.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:28 am

Maybe finding something else to do besides being a keyboard warrior is a good idea.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:34 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.
Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me.

Ditto. Until I actually see action...real, quantifiable action...it's all just rumors.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:38 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.
Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me. We've been hearing this in increasing shades of intensity for 6 years now in its current form. Those of us who live in the tri-state have seen it since the 80s. Forgive me if watching "rule of law" fail for this long leaves me incredibly jaded about it. For those who have faith...I hope you're right but the sirens/red alerts? It's self-parodying behavior at this point.

This comment felt appropriate here:

Trump likely doesn't see this as the rejection of the rule of law that it is; he believes things just work this way - the fix is always in, benefiting either him or someone else. He's wrong, but the more he and his allies erode the rule of law, the more he'll be correct.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:45 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:34 am
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.
Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me.
Ditto. Until I actually see action...real, quantifiable action...it's all just rumors.

I mean it's more than rumors but I get your meaning.

IMO Trump has for his entire life abused due process to the breaking point. So all of this is "legitimate" in the sense that the lawyers are all basically pretending things aren't broken but at some level you have to look at outcomes. And the outcomes are farcical. As some esteemed legal minds have pointed out this particular side road into 'Special Master' civil litigation has been an atrocious 'the law is no matter' time sink. Perhaps eventually we'll probably see the 11th or SCOTUS reject all this nonsense and legal minds will declare - rule of law survives! While Trump moved the ball 3-4 months forward and then it'll be some new delay tactic. Rinse. Repeat. For 30+ years now we've seen this. Nothing ever happens. He's the embodiment of the rot.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:52 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.
Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me.

As does this from me.

I can't wait to read all the accounts in 3-5 years about how the United States DOJ fumbling this affair so badly killed off tons of international intelligence cooperation.

I mentioned ignoring the sirens. Did you read the thread? It's pointing out the same thing every other person reading the Trump response did, only it gets to all the topics in one thread instead of spreading them out across several.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:59 am

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:00 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:18 am I also ignore anything suggesting that TFG should regret anything

Sorry, but what does TFG stand for? Obviously it's meant to refer to Trump / team Trump, but I can't figure out the acronym. The Fucking Guy? Trump's Fucking Guys? Trump's Friend Gary?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:01 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:52 am
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:27 am
stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:19 amYour loss.
Is it really? Sorry but any 'he'll regret this move' arguments gets a huge eye roll from me.
As does this from me.

I can't wait to read all the accounts in 3-5 years about how the United States DOJ fumbling this affair so badly killed off tons of international intelligence cooperation.
I mentioned ignoring the sirens. Did you read the thread? It's pointing out the same thing every other person reading the Trump response did, only it gets to all the topics in one thread instead of spreading them out across several.

I mean you're sort of right. We won't see anyone talk about how DOJ failed because no one hold anything or anyone powerful to account anymore. Well except for bad press. The horror. To wit, we just saw an account that the DOJ under Barr essentially lied to protect Trump and everyone shrugged.

I get it - you believe in the system. That's all good and all but all I'm saying is that for many (a majority of the country) at this point have extremely low trust in almost every part of our system. Rule of law is seen as a two or three tiered system to many folks. The rich/elites, the police, and everyone else. So I'm just skeptical when I hear someone powerful much less Trump is in imminent danger. His apparatchiks even seemingly have convictions slide off them as if they are no harm/no foul as long as the fines are modest.

But still to answer the question I didn't read the entire thread because it was unreadable to me. It's full of memes/gifs etc. It might be pretty informative but from your comment I suspect I read it in a more concise readable form elsewhere. And it still doesn't change my overall opinion that he is in actual danger when I heard this from "grounded" folks either. I'll say it again that I sincerely hope this is the time I'll be proved wrong about our rotten, corrupt system but forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:01 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:00 am
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:18 am I also ignore anything suggesting that TFG should regret anything
Sorry, but what does TFG stand for? Obviously it's meant to refer to Trump / team Trump, but I can't figure out the acronym. The Fucking Guy? Trump's Fucking Guys? Trump's Friend Gary?

The Former Guy.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:13 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:01 am
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:00 am
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:18 am I also ignore anything suggesting that TFG should regret anything
Sorry, but what does TFG stand for? Obviously it's meant to refer to Trump / team Trump, but I can't figure out the acronym. The Fucking Guy? Trump's Fucking Guys? Trump's Friend Gary?
The Former Guy.

Ah, so this is like a Drumpf thing?