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The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Alefroth
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Alefroth »

Grifman wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 12:43 pm Read this thread re: sentencing of Stewart Rhodes:



There’s not an ounce of remorse in his comments to the court. The judge is going to throw the book at him.
It sounds like everything went against him in the hearing. I wonder why he only got 18.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Alefroth wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 4:24 pm It sounds like everything went against him in the hearing. I wonder why he only got 18.
First time offense (I am not joking).
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Alefroth »

Jeebus.

Serenity now. Serenity now.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by hepcat »

It still surprises me that he's a Yale educated lawyer.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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18 years??
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Guardian
Federal prosecutors have evidence Donald Trump showed classified documents to people, the Washington Post reported on Thursday, citing unnamed sources, as the investigation into his handling of national security materials and obstruction of justice approaches its conclusion.

The development could raise the stakes for the former president as it exposes him to serious action under the Espionage Act, of wilfully communicating national security materials rather than simply retaining them, which is rarely charged.
...
Prosecutors have also developed evidence in recent weeks that Trump employees at Mar-a-Lago last year brought boxes of documents back to the storage room the day before justice department officials came to collect classified documents that had been subpoenaed, the Post reported.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

I'll say it again. Anyone else would have been almost immediately charged for this. That these details are being leaked out into the press like this is concerning. It isn't clear why it is happening yet but it's certainly notable if you assume the circle is tight on this case.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Lordy, there are tapes:
Prosecutors in former President Donald Trump's Manhattan criminal case have released to his attorneys a recording of Trump and a witness, whose identity was not disclosed, according to a document the office made public Friday.

The document, called an automatic discovery form, describes the nature of the charges against a defendant and a broad overview of the evidence that prosecutors will present at Trump's preliminary hearing or at trial. Trump's attorneys and media organizations, including CBS News, had repeatedly requested that such a form be made public in the weeks since Trump's arrest on April 4.

Trump is the first former president in American history to face criminal charges. He has entered a not guilty plea to 34 felony counts of falsification of business records for alleged payments made as part of a "hush money" scheme.

The document lists the dates of 34 instances between Feb. 14, 2017 and Dec. 5, 2017 when he allegedly falsified records.

In a section devoted to electronic evidence that will be turned over, a prosecutor for Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office indicated they have disclosed to the defense a "recording of a conversation between defendant and a witness."

The section also indicates prosecutors intend to disclose recordings of calls between witnesses and others.
Of note:
Trial in the case is scheduled to begin March 25, 2024.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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:pop:
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Rolling Stone doing some investigative journalism:
In recent months, the former president has asked close advisers, including at least one of his personal attorneys, if “we know” all the names of senior FBI agents and Justice Department personnel who have worked on the federal probes into him. That’s according to two sources with direct knowledge of the matter and another person briefed on it.

Trump has then privately discussed that should he return to the White House, it is imperative his new Department of Justice “quickly” and “immediately” purge the FBI and DOJ’s ranks of these officials and agents who’ve led the Trump-related criminal investigations, the sources recount. The ex-president has of course dubbed all such probes as illegitimate “witch hunts,” and is now campaigning for the White House on a platform of “retribution” and cleaning house.
But sure, he's someone that should be running for President.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

He watches too much TV. FBI agents don't run around chasing whoever they want. They get orders from the division Special Agent in Charge who gets orders from the Director who gets orders from Congress.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

This feels like a big deal.
Federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a summer 2021 meeting in which former President Donald Trump acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran, multiple sources told CNN, undercutting his argument that he declassified everything.

The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said.
Just so we're clear, if this was anyone other than a former President, they'd be sitting in a jail cell, right?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 6:41 pm This feels like a big deal.
Federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a summer 2021 meeting in which former President Donald Trump acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran, multiple sources told CNN, undercutting his argument that he declassified everything.

The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said.
Just so we're clear, if this was anyone other than a former President, they'd be sitting in a jail cell, right?
I'll give Trump kudos for NOT doing this (get the damn neocons out of power and keep them out!!!!)
Meadows’ autobiography includes an account of what appears to be the same meeting, during which Trump “recalls a four-page report typed up by (Trump’s former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) Mark Milley himself. It contained the general’s own plan to attack Iran, deploying massive numbers of troops, something he urged President Trump to do more than once during his presidency.”
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 6:41 pm This feels like a big deal.
Federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a summer 2021 meeting in which former President Donald Trump acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran, multiple sources told CNN, undercutting his argument that he declassified everything.

The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said.
Just so we're clear, if this was anyone other than a former President, they'd be sitting in a jail cell, right?
Long ago. I'd be surprised if anyone has handled highly classified secrets this way and been given such deference. I heard one expert saying it appears they are bending over backwards to learn his state of mind *even though* Trump signed a law that made what he did illegal even without criminal intent. They are being cautious to end that make this look like another episode where a rich, powerful person is given benefits of the doubt far beyond what other citizens would receive in similar circumstances. That's corrosive and reduces trust in the system.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Pyperkub wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:00 pm I'll give Trump kudos for NOT doing this (get the damn neocons out of power and keep them out!!!!)
Meadows’ autobiography includes an account of what appears to be the same meeting, during which Trump “recalls a four-page report typed up by (Trump’s former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) Mark Milley himself. It contained the general’s own plan to attack Iran, deploying massive numbers of troops, something he urged President Trump to do more than once during his presidency.”
He probably doesn't deserve kudos. Mostly because this almost certainly didn't happen this way. Meadows is a liar. Trump is a liar. Whatever the meeting was about is probably exaggerated at the least.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:43 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:00 pm I'll give Trump kudos for NOT doing this (get the damn neocons out of power and keep them out!!!!)
Meadows’ autobiography includes an account of what appears to be the same meeting, during which Trump “recalls a four-page report typed up by (Trump’s former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) Mark Milley himself. It contained the general’s own plan to attack Iran, deploying massive numbers of troops, something he urged President Trump to do more than once during his presidency.”
He probably doesn't deserve kudos. Mostly because this almost certainly didn't happen this way. Meadows is a liar. Trump is a liar. Whatever the meeting was about is probably exaggerated at the least.
Maybe so.
he last time that General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke with President Donald Trump was on January 3, 2021. The subject of the Sunday-afternoon meeting, at the White House, was Iran’s nuclear program. For the past several months, Milley had been engaged in an alarmed effort to insure that Trump did not embark on a military conflict with Iran as part of his quixotic campaign to overturn the results of the 2020 election and remain in power. The chairman secretly feared that Trump would insist on launching a strike on Iranian interests that could set off a full-blown war.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:33 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 6:41 pm This feels like a big deal.
Federal prosecutors have obtained an audio recording of a summer 2021 meeting in which former President Donald Trump acknowledges he held onto a classified Pentagon document about a potential attack on Iran, multiple sources told CNN, undercutting his argument that he declassified everything.

The recording indicates Trump understood he retained classified material after leaving the White House, according to multiple sources familiar with the investigation. On the recording, Trump’s comments suggest he would like to share the information but he’s aware of limitations on his ability post-presidency to declassify records, two of the sources said.
Just so we're clear, if this was anyone other than a former President, they'd be sitting in a jail cell, right?
Long ago. I'd be surprised if anyone has handled highly classified secrets this way and been given such deference. I heard one expert saying it appears they are bending over backwards to learn his state of mind *even though* Trump signed a law that made what he did illegal even without criminal intent. They are being cautious to end that make this look like another episode where a rich, powerful person is given benefits of the doubt far beyond what other citizens would receive in similar circumstances. That's corrosive and reduces trust in the system.
This stuff matters as evidence for rich / powerful people like Trump, even though it's not relevant to the legal violations. One of the things that Trump and his surrogates would be pushing following an indictment on this is stuff like "well he probably declassified it" and "who cares about some stupid documents". Jurors are inevitably going to hear that stuff in the leadup to the trial. Being able to play at trial a recording of Trump in his own voice acting with intent as to the documents, and supporting that he kept them intentionally for purposeful use later, is absolute gold even if it doesn't go to the legal elements.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 7:00 pm
Meadows’ autobiography includes an account of what appears to be the same meeting, during which Trump “recalls a four-page report typed up by (Trump’s former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) Mark Milley himself. It contained the general’s own plan to attack Iran, deploying massive numbers of troops, something he urged President Trump to do more than once during his presidency.”
I won't take Meadows' word that Milley urged Trump to attack Iran, but that such plans exist is undisputed.

Pentagon planners routinely produce plans for all kinds of contingencies because planning keeps planners' tools sharp. It's no secret that we have developed plans to invade allies like Canada and France, let alone adversary countries. The Pentagon has even done planning exercises for a Zombie Apocalypse.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

Maybe *this* time they'll get him:
Late Saturday night, NBC News dropped a potential bombshell when it reported that the federal grand jury that has been examining evidence in the United States Department of Justice special counsel Jack Smith's investigation into former President Donald Trump's mishandling of classified documents will reconvene this upcoming week.

"Prosecutors face two central legal questions: 1) Did Trump wrongfully retain classified documents after he left the White House? 2) Did he later obstruct the government’s efforts to retrieve them?" NBC noted. "If Smith decides to indict Trump, it would be the first time a former president has been charged with a federal crime. Though Trump has already been charged in New York with state crimes related to hush money payments, the cases differ dramatically."

...

Former White House Ethics Czar Norm Eisen said that "reports that the Trump classified document grand jury is meeting again shortly, what can we expect? Charges! (If not this week, soon).

Ex-federal prosecutor and legal analyst Renato Mariotti, however, cautioned that the update "doesn’t tell us much about the timing of a potential indictment. The grand jury could be considering a proposed indictment, but prosecutors could just be presenting evidence to the grand jury."
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Nothing…nothing will happen. You’d think after 1235 times, they’d know that.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

hepcat wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:33 pm Nothing…nothing will happen. You’d think after 1235 times, they’d know that.
Yeah, but this is 1236! That means that there's hope!
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Nothing happens until it does. At this point Trump is more likely than not to be indicted by DOJ, and probably by Georgia as well, by the end of the year.

How well these proceedings will go...harder to predict.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

Sure but I think there is real fatigue on this and it has been extremely corrosive to public trust. People have every right to be jaded about their pace as he has assaulted our system over and over in plain sight.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Alefroth »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:39 pm Nothing happens until it does. At this point Trump is more likely than not to be indicted by DOJ, and probably by Georgia as well, by the end of the year.

How well these proceedings will go...harder to predict.
I hope his usual delay tactics won't have much success in these cases.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Report: Donald Trump’s Lawyers Spent Monday Begging the DOJ Not to Indict Him
If the ex-president’s Truth Social meltdown is any indication, the appeal did not go well.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:28 pm Donald Trump’s Lawyers Spent Monday Begging the DOJ Not to Indict Him
That is some massively loaded commentary. Is it backed up by the article you shared?
(I will read it post-haste)

Did they beg the DOJ not to indict him, or did they just do a bunch of things that any "Trumps Lawyers" would be paid to do?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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Attorneys for Donald Trump came to the Justice Department on Monday morning to make their case that the government should not charge the former president in connection with his possession of classified documents after leaving office, a person familiar with the situation said. The lawyers at the meeting were Lindsey Halligan, John Rowley, and James Trusty, according to multiple people familiar with the situation, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss it.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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For the record:



Enlarge Image

nvm Trump, that you never ONCE pushed for HRC to be pressed by the DOJ. Makes total sense.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Unagi wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 9:15 pm For the record:



Enlarge Image

nvm Trump, that you never ONCE pushed for HRC to be pressed by the DOJ. Makes total sense.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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malchior wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:55 pm Sure but I think there is real fatigue on this and it has been extremely corrosive to public trust. People have every right to be jaded about their pace as he has assaulted our system over and over in plain sight.
Sure, but the implication was that nothing would happen here, which is (probably) not correct. If the argument that it's too slow, that's different.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:14 amIf the argument [is] that it's too slow, that's different.
It's too slow.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:14 am
malchior wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:55 pm Sure but I think there is real fatigue on this and it has been extremely corrosive to public trust. People have every right to be jaded about their pace as he has assaulted our system over and over in plain sight.
Sure, but the implication was that nothing would happen here, which is (probably) not correct. If the argument that it's too slow, that's different.
Yep, there are seemingly overwhelming odds of something happening here...though if it weren't to happen it'd be this guy. :grund:
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:14 am
malchior wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:55 pm Sure but I think there is real fatigue on this and it has been extremely corrosive to public trust. People have every right to be jaded about their pace as he has assaulted our system over and over in plain sight.
Sure, but the implication was that nothing would happen here, which is (probably) not correct. If the argument that it's too slow, that's different.
If it's too slow it's not that much different. If he becomes president again or if he dies, nothing happens.

One is possible with enough delay, one is inevitable.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

It really feels like there's a significant number of people slow-rolling this entire process in the hopes that he dies first and they don't need to be involved in the ultimate stress-test of our legal system and/or the Constitution.

It's enraging.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

So many things happening:
Former President Donald Trump's former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows testified before a federal grand jury hearing evidence in the special counsel's investigations into former President Trump, ABC News sources said.

Sources tell ABC News that Meadows answered questions on both Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election and Trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents.

It was not immediately clear exactly when Meadows testified.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:12 am It really feels like there's a significant number of people slow-rolling this entire process in the hopes that he dies first and they don't need to be involved in the ultimate stress-test of our legal system and/or the Constitution.

It's enraging.
TBH, if it wasn't for his Government Health Care, I do believe he would have died when he got Covid. We'd all probably be better off.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Unagi »

Ya think!?
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Carpet_pissr »

All this talk of his imminent death is crazy. Wishful thinking much guys?

Is there any indication that he’s close enough to death where it would matter for our particular context here? Sheesh.

If he were stumbling around, slurring his speech, using a wheelchair, or obviously wheezing, etc etc ok (as I write that it comes to me that it sounds a lot like I’m describing Biden more than Trump).

Absent overt signs of rapidly failing health, is the hope that he’s going to just keel over any day? :D
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

Post by Blackhawk »

Elderly + harsh lifestyle +high stress personality gives me some hope.
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