New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

This is the place for self-contained forum games

Moderator: Zaxxon

Post Reply
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Punisher »

El Guapo wrote:Holman was definitely the Sheriff by process of elimination. One of you is lying about the whole "not a wolf" thing, but unless one of the villagers is lying about their role, then we did indeed shoot the sheriff (but not the deputy).

Hah. Nice try..

El Guapo is the Spaz Wolf!..
Let's end this game....
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Lassr
Posts: 16862
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
Location: Rocket City (AL)
Contact:

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Lassr »

told ya! :P
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Lassr
Posts: 16862
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
Location: Rocket City (AL)
Contact:

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Lassr »

vote sent
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

Interesting !
Vote sent as well
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

Lassr wrote:
Unagi wrote: Lassr can only then claim that he used his lawyer power on day 1, but he can't have used it on himself if he now says he can use it on himself again.
I did use on myself first night. I can't remove them tonight so my little plan would not work.
:?
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

OK,

So who on earth then voted for Holman but didn't say anything?! yeesh.
Scoop?


My vote for El Guapo is in.
User avatar
Lassr
Posts: 16862
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:51 am
Location: Rocket City (AL)
Contact:

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Lassr »

Unagi wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Unagi wrote: Lassr can only then claim that he used his lawyer power on day 1, but he can't have used it on himself if he now says he can use it on himself again.
I did use on myself first night. I can't remove them tonight so my little plan would not work.
:?
Yea, after I posted that I remembered I did myself the first night and cannot do me for the rest of the game. Oops. I just made an error that might put a target on my head if El Guapo came back clean. Then someone walked into my office as I was typing up a correction post so it did not get posted...

But EL Guapo came back dirty so all is good with the world of WW...
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.

Black Lives Matter
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Punisher wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Holman was definitely the Sheriff by process of elimination. One of you is lying about the whole "not a wolf" thing, but unless one of the villagers is lying about their role, then we did indeed shoot the sheriff (but not the deputy).

Hah. Nice try..

El Guapo is the Spaz Wolf!..
Let's end this game....
No wolf! No wolf! You're the wolf!
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

:D
User avatar
RMC
Posts: 6739
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: Elyria, Ohio
Contact:

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by RMC »

Vote is in. Nice game. Needs some work to help the wolves though.
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Lassr wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Unagi wrote: Lassr can only then claim that he used his lawyer power on day 1, but he can't have used it on himself if he now says he can use it on himself again.
I did use on myself first night. I can't remove them tonight so my little plan would not work.
:?
Yea, after I posted that I remembered I did myself the first night and cannot do me for the rest of the game. Oops. I just made an error that might put a target on my head if El Guapo came back clean. Then someone walked into my office as I was typing up a correction post so it did not get posted...
This sounds very suspicious!
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

:pop:
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

a one week game, not bad.
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Vorret wrote:a one week game, not bad.
Nice try, wolf. We see right through you.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

El Guapo wrote:
Vorret wrote:a one week game, not bad.
Nice try, wolf. We see right through you.
In the end we're all wolves trying to get by in this crazy world
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

I mean, what is a "wolf", really, when you think about it? Aren't we all wolves in our own way? And if so, doesn't that suggest that we should all vote for each other?
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

kinda funny you got handed the same role twice though
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
Newcastle
Posts: 10130
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:22 am
Location: reading over a shoulder near you

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Newcastle »

:binky: :tjg: :binky:

:binky: :pop: :binky:
Bayraktar!!!!

Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

AwweoooooOOOooooooo.... brothers.
User avatar
bb2112
End of Days
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by bb2112 »

Voting is Closed:

1. Vorret ------> 1
2. Punisher ----> 1
3. El Guapo ---> 5
4. Unagi -------> 1
5. RMC --------> 1
6. Lassr -------> 1

Everyone voted or submitted an action.

Bring out Your Dead:
1. Holman
2. Newcastle
3. Scoop
Last edited by bb2112 on Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Vorret wrote:kinda funny you got handed the same role twice though
That seems wildly improbable, right? So by probability it didn't happen, which means that you should vote for Lassr.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
bb2112
End of Days
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by bb2112 »

El Guapo steps out into the street with guns ablazing. "This town is mine!" he shouts at the top of his lungs. Everyone takes a bead on him and fires. El Guapo falls dead and the townsfolk watch in horror as he turns into a wolf.

The town of Tombstone has been successfully defended!
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Pretty sure that I have this game in the bag.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Vorret
Posts: 9613
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:37 pm
Location: Drummondville, QC

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Vorret »

I think it was slightly too easy for the village but we did get a lucky scan right off the bat
Isgrimnur wrote:
His name makes me think of a small, burrowing rodent anyway.
User avatar
Newcastle
Posts: 10130
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:22 am
Location: reading over a shoulder near you

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Newcastle »

If folks are interested here's the wolf forum i created. Should be readable.

http://neonpaper.freeforums.net/

Nice scan of me by Punisher...grats on that.

Thanks BB for hosting. I like the idea and i do think it has promise it just needs to be reworked. I do mean the following statements/critiques/opinions with the hopes of finetuning the game.


I made the following comments the day i died to help spur discussion to get the game into a more balanced state, because truth be told the wolves were gimped from start.....

I also want to add, there should be a massive disincentive for a mass reveal (which occured on day 2) which pretty much let the village organize themselves to snuff out the game along with other factors.

Ya know, not to bitch, but i think the wolves were gimped from the start. We got no night kill, our power resides in 1 person (me), and the village has multiple ways of negating votes. The one advantage, if you can call it that, was there was no voting record. However, if folks do a roll call (as it happened) people can get a bit more details on who people are. Also if you claim lawyer, as lassr, or scoop, the village could force you to demonstrate your power. Just jotting some problems as i see it. Also, not a fan of the shortened days. I think a 72 hour period is a nice sweet spot for this, but not 24 hours. I think to fix it i would look at it this way:

1. Keep the day cycle, BUT, at the end of the day in addition to the voting "lynchee" the wolves can select one person to kill. That way 2 die per day, and the wolves can exert some power.
2. I would give them abit more power, maybe a scan blocker. Or a group wide EMP to prevent any scan from happeneing. The Spaz power is a bit gimped. Or maybe the power to steal votes.
3. I would extend the game to 48-72 hours. 24 is just too quick for my taste.
4. I would probably tone down the amount of vote negating the village can do.
5. I would tone down the outlaw because they pretty much can paralyze the game.
6. I would negate anyway that the village can self out and self prove themselves. They can easily do so now should they coordinate a bit more...ie (ok you drop 1 vote on Scoop if you have zero tomorrow then youre clear scoop) and so forth. Yeah the wolves can mess with that, but you'll only have 1 vote to work with.

THen again this is the first run of it. I wouldn't mind playing it again should there be some tweaks(time is biggie). What i dont think the villagers realize is that punisher is gonna get 2 more scans for free, and the wolves can do nothing. So in effect the game is over. Even if we drop 3 votes on punisher today, i am toast. TOmorrow you cant do much more than drop 1 vote, and no one will vote for punisher after i am dead. And that is going to whittle down your hiding spots day by day. They will lynch 1, and punisher will scan 1. So this will probably be over effectively on friday i am guessing.

Sorry to be a bummer, just wanted to jot my thoughts as its still fresh, because I doubt if i will check in on the game until its over and I dont want to lose the suggestions i have.
Bayraktar!!!!

Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

I think for the wolves to win under the current rule set you'd basically have to have two misses and two missed scans on days 1 and 2. At that point they would have 3 of 7 votes, and then you'd just need to trick one of the remaining four villagers (and I guess hope to avoid vote negation). Seems like a long shot.

I guess I am inclined to think that a game like this does need a night kill to work.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
bb2112
End of Days
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by bb2112 »

1. Vorret - Drunk - Negate 1 or Vote
2. Punisher - Mystic - Scan or vote
3. Scoop - Politician - Deflect 1 or vote
4. El Guapo - Spaz Wolf - Vote 1 or Vote Everyone else
5. Unagi - Drunk - Negate 1 or Vote
6. Newcastle - Alpha Wolf - Vote 1 or 2
7. RMC - Outlaw - Auto Kill or Vote
8. Holman - Sheriff - Protect or Vote
9. Lassr - Lawyer - Negate 2 or Vote


Day1
1. Vorret - Negates 1
2. Punisher - Scan Newcastle
3. Scoop - Deflect 1 transfer to RMC and Holman
4. El Guapo - Vote Scoop
5. Unagi - Vote Holman
6. Newcastle - Vote RMC X 2
7. RMC - Vote Holman
8. Holman - Protect RMC
9. Lassr - -2 on Lassr

1. Vorret ------> 0
2. Punisher ----> 0
3. Scoop -------> 0
4. El Guapo ---> 0
5. Unagi -------> 0
6. Newcastle -> 0
7. RMC --------> 3
8. Holman ----> 3
9. Lassr -------> 0

Day 2
1. Vorret - Vote Unagi
2. Punisher - Scan Unagi
3. Scoop - Deflect 1
4. El Guapo - Vote El Guapo
5. Unagi - Vote Newcastle
6. Newcastle - Vote El Guapo
7. RMC - Shot Newcastle
8. Holman - Dead
9. Lassr - Vote Newcastle

1. Vorret ------> 0
2. Punisher ----> 0
3. Scoop -------> 0
4. El Guapo ---> 3
5. Unagi -------> 1
6. Newcastle -> 2
7. RMC --------> 0
8. Lassr -------> 0


Day 3
1. Vorret - Vote Scoop
2. Punisher - Scan El Guapo
3. Scoop - Vote Lassr
4. El Guapo - Vote Punisher
5. Unagi - Vote Scoop
6. Newcastle - Dead
7. RMC - Vote Scoop
8. Holman - Dead
9. Lassr - Vote Scoop

1. Vorret ------> 0
2. Punisher ----> 1
3. Scoop -------> 4
4. El Guapo ---> 0
5. Unagi -------> 0
7. RMC --------> 0
8. Lassr -------> 1

Day 4
1. Vorret - Vote El Guapo
2. Punisher - Vote El Guapo
3. Scoop - Dead
4. El Guapo - Spaz Power
5. Unagi - Vote El Guapo
6. Newcastle - Dead
7. RMC - Vote El Guapo
8. Holman - Dead
9. Lassr - Vote El Guapo

1. Vorret ------> 1
2. Punisher ----> 1
3. El Guapo ---> 5
4. Unagi -------> 1
5. RMC --------> 1
6. Lassr -------> 1
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Holman »

Congrats, villagers!

Yep, I was the Sheriff.

I should have come out, but I didn't really see a danger. There seemed to be no consensus on killing me since only Unagi had mentioned it, and I was hoping votes would be divided enough to leave RMC as the top vote-getter, thus allowing my protection to completely save the day. I figured I would come out on Day Two if Unagi was still pushing on me.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
RMC
Posts: 6739
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:49 pm
Location: Elyria, Ohio
Contact:

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by RMC »

Yeah, we blew that one up. But it all worked out thanks to punisher and his outstanding scans!
Difficulties mastered are opportunities won. - Winston Churchill
Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...). - Hepcat
User avatar
bb2112
End of Days
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by bb2112 »

Punisher for MVP - 2 wolves out of 3 scans!

It is hard for the wolves to come back after that. I also think I need to work on the balancing a bit. Having the wolves lose their 2 shot on day 2 was huge. Having the Auto kill from the outlaw take the place of a kill is also hugely powerful.

Overall I was not unhappy with how it played out for a test run. If people would be willing to play this type of game again I could work on the rules and see if we can get something more balanced.

Any suggestions are welcome!
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Yeah, it was fun.

As a start, either the Alpha Wolf dying should end the game immediately, OR the Alpha wolf double-vote should pass to the Spaz Wolf. It was pointless to continue the game when the wolves only had one vote and no night kill.

Otherwise I'm not sure what you could consider the core point of this game variant, but I am inclined to think that these games need a night kill to work well.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

bb2112 wrote: Day1
1. Vorret - Negates 1
2. Punisher - Scan Newcastle
3. Scoop - Deflect 1 transfer to RMC and Holman
4. El Guapo - Vote Scoop
5. Unagi - Vote Holman
6. Newcastle - Vote RMC X 2
7. RMC - Vote Holman
8. Holman - Protect RMC
9. Lassr - -2 on Lassr
The answer to my "Day 1 Vote" mystery isn't nearly as simple as I had thought!

Funny.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Unagi »

Holman wrote:if Unagi was still pushing on me.
sorry bout that. :oops:
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41244
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by El Guapo »

Unagi wrote:
bb2112 wrote: Day1
1. Vorret - Negates 1
2. Punisher - Scan Newcastle
3. Scoop - Deflect 1 transfer to RMC and Holman
4. El Guapo - Vote Scoop
5. Unagi - Vote Holman
6. Newcastle - Vote RMC X 2
7. RMC - Vote Holman
8. Holman - Protect RMC
9. Lassr - -2 on Lassr
The answer to my "Day 1 Vote" mystery isn't nearly as simple as I had thought!

Funny.
Yeah it took me a bit to figure out what the hell had happened. First I though that bb had missed my vote (or that he wasn't counting non-determinative votes). Then I thought Scoop was a drunk. Then I started wondering where the third vote on RMC came from...and then it finally dawned on me.

I actually claimed that I voted for Holman before I realized that Scoop was a politician. I'd been planning on speculating that Holman had canceled a vote on myself (and/or someone else was lying), but then it worked out fine.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
bb2112
End of Days
Posts: 5480
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:10 pm
Location: Knowledge! It is almost as important as money, luck, and family connections.

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by bb2112 »

El Guapo wrote:Yeah, it was fun.

As a start, either the Alpha Wolf dying should end the game immediately, OR the Alpha wolf double-vote should pass to the Spaz Wolf. It was pointless to continue the game when the wolves only had one vote and no night kill.
That was one of the options I was thinking about. If either wolf died he got both powers. I'm also wondering if having a third team would help.
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
BCY4920 - You can suck it Johnny Angel.
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Punisher »

RMC wrote:Yeah, we blew that one up. But it all worked out thanks to punisher and his outstanding scans!

Pure luck... I was the seer once before and totally missed the scans.. plus, almost every game I end up trying to protect the wolves for some reason, so glad I got it worked out this time...

I looked and saw that the wolves were thinking of me the first day. glad they didn't. :)
That may have changed the game some..

I do like the fast game days though.... Sometimes the other games seem to take too long...
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Holman »

Punisher wrote: I do like the fast game days though.... Sometimes the other games seem to take too long...
While too many WW games take too long, I think real-time days are too fast. It penalizes busy players and makes whole-group discussion difficult. In this game I died early, but I had a day this week where I wouldn't have been able to check in at all.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Punisher
Posts: 3946
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:05 pm

Re: New WW Variant-Wild Wild West - Roles are out - Game on!

Post by Punisher »

Some compromise between day long days and week long days then...

With the week long ones, the discussion seems to just go back and forth.. and if you have nothing more to say/contribute, you are immediately suspicious for being quiet.
All yourLightning Bolts are Belong to Us
Post Reply