All things: China

[El Guapo]

Yeah, I mean there's no doubt that Trump is effective - he did get elected president, almost got reelected, and still dominates one of the two major political parties. I think it's fair to debate how much of it is talent vs. luck vs. circumstance. The man's clearly an idiot, but at the same time he also obviously has some talent for showmanship and for playing to the crowd, paired with a ruthlessness that has helped him quite a bit.

It's an interesting topic. Though I think we're veering a bit far from "All things: China".

[GreenGoo]

Someone once wrote that with without drumpf's father, drumpf would be a street hustler, and not a very good one, selling counterfeit rolexes.

There, back to China.

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, the last few hours of discussion illustrates the same reason that I avoid calling politicians and celebrities by silly names - even if they deserve it. I feel like name-calling makes any argument more petty.

[Alefroth]

How can so many people have no ability to be introspective?

The vaccines did it.

[Kurth]

Sure, but I mean...no one else does that because everyone else has a modicum of respect for other people, or at least hide their derision. Drumpf has no filters, but what he spews is puerile gibberish. I mean, sleepy joe? Lyin' Ted? Oh, he called a politician a liar? How crazily effective.

Again, drumpf is barely elementary school levels of...whatever you want to call what he does. That it works is the true sin, and it's not his sin. His sin is not being very good at it.

It's the presidential candidate version of libtards, or repugnicans, but not as clever. I would be fucking horrified and embarrassed if my political candidate issued direct personal attacks of such juvenile content. But apparently at least half of America has no shame. Like, literally no ability to be embarrassed (see any typical interview with drumpfites). How can so many people have no ability to be introspective?

edit: To be clear drumpf has plenty of "followers" in Canada as well. It's humanity that appalls me, not America.

Again, I don’t want to quibble, but it still seems to me like you’re asserting that he’s not “crazily effective.” But he is. His dumb insults are incredibly effective. So much so, that all the other spineless GOP candidate wannabes are (with the exception of Christie and the newly arrived Hurd) scared to death to take him on. You’re just flat wrong to say he’s “not very good at it.”

In contrast, you’re spot on where you decry the millions of people who fall for Trump’s crap.

I think the space between you two is that you think maybe Trump insults are third grade level because that is what is effective, maybe he could do better but that isn't what his audience wants, and GreenGoo thinks maybe it is all he's capable of.

No, it's not that I think he's capable of more. This isn't an argument that Trump is really some kind of genius in disguise. It's just that I don't care about how smart or witty his insults are or if he's an utter dolt (which I believe he absolutely is). All that matters is that he's effective in convincing nearly half the voters in this country to vote for him.

[GreenGoo]

FWIW, the last few hours of discussion illustrates the same reason that I avoid calling politicians and celebrities by silly names - even if they deserve it. I feel like name-calling makes any argument more petty.

Sometimes the point isn't to argue. Sometimes it's to insult. It's all we can do since the secret service will never let us kick him in the balls.

[GreenGoo]

No, it's not that I think he's capable of more. This isn't an argument that Trump is really some kind of genius in disguise. It's just that I don't care about how smart or witty his insults are or if he's an utter dolt (which I believe he absolutely is). All that matters is that he's effective in convincing nearly half the voters in this country to vote for him.

I'm judging him by the strength of his insults. They are...poor. Weak sauce.

The problem here is that you are only looking at the results. Which is short sided and hardly the point I was addressing, but I knew this was your view, as it's always your view (not an insult). There are lots of shitty things that work. Is it really effective to denigrate an opponent's wife? If so, why? What does that say about his supporters? Is it a great sin to call someone ugly instead of some sort of clever backhanded compliment? Absolutely, especially for anyone who values intelligence and acerbic wit.

You seem to think I give a crap about his ability to get elected or not. I do not.

The problem in our communication is that we worship different gods, so sin and virtue are defined differently.

[Zarathud]

Trump workshopped name calling and insults as part of his image for years in New York. Howard Stern called Trump good for ratings, as he knew how to stir the pot and rile people up. TV only fed the narrative.

Trump isn’t a genius (stable or not), but he’s learned skills manipulating people to feed his ego. The prior Republican primary ignored that to their peril.

Making China and the Chinese take the blame dates bate to the Exclusion Act of 1882. Blaming Mexico and Mexicans is just the same song, different verse.

[Kurth]

You seem to think I give a crap about his ability to get elected or not. I do not.

Hmm. I cannot understand how you (or anyone) could take this approach to Trump, but your position is clear. I wonder if you discount the degree to which a destabilized and denigrated America under a second term of Trump will impact the rest of the world, including our wonderful neighbors to the north.

The problem in our communication is that we worship different gods, so sin and virtue are defined differently.

Yeah. I guess so.

[Blackhawk]

And how a firm and negative response to Trump (however unlikely) might resonate with the other would-be tyrants who seem to be following his example all over the world.

[GreenGoo]

Hmm. I cannot understand how you (or anyone) could take this approach to Trump, but your position is clear. I wonder if you discount the degree to which a destabilized and denigrated America under a second term of Trump will impact the rest of the world, including our wonderful neighbors to the north.

omfg. Seriously.

My comments were never directed at his electability. If you want to discuss that, there are 40 threads for you to participate in. Even this one. However, responding to my opinions on his skill with verbal sparing is not the best place to do that, since he has none.

Remember when biden told him to "shut up, man"? Now imagine Biden is Tony Stark. That's what I'm talking about.

[Kurth]

Hmm. I cannot understand how you (or anyone) could take this approach to Trump, but your position is clear. I wonder if you discount the degree to which a destabilized and denigrated America under a second term of Trump will impact the rest of the world, including our wonderful neighbors to the north.

omfg. Seriously.

My comments were never directed at his electability. If you want to discuss that, there are 40 threads for you to participate in. Even this one. However, responding to my opinions on his skill with verbal sparing is not the best place to do that, since he has none.

Remember when biden told him to "shut up, man"? Now imagine Biden is Tony Stark. That's what I'm talking about.

Sorry. Maybe we’re talking past each other.

[LordMortis]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/06/politics ... index.html

A Russian and Chinese naval patrol consisting of several vessels operated off the coast of Alaska last week, defense officials and lawmakers said over the weekend – a show of force that prompted a US military response but did not pose a threat to the US or Canada, a US Northern Command spokesperson told CNN.


...


Chinese Embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu told CNN in a statement that “according to the annual cooperation plan between the Chinese and Russian militaries, naval vessels of the two countries have recently conducted joint maritime patrols in relevant waters in the western and northern Pacific Ocean. This action is not targeted at any third party and has nothing to do with the current international and regional situation.”

[Grifman]

The US is planning to make Guam one of the most heavily defended places on earth:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/g ... -new-plans

[Isgrimnur]

[Grifman]

This is an excellent article about the economic reckoning that China faces, but it may not matter if security is considered more important:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/07/ch ... urity-ccp/

I have to wonder what this means for western investment in China if they move closer to socialism and govt control of the economy.

[Blackhawk]

I don't even need to watch the video - the thumbnail tells me all I need to know. Did he really think that the island would tip over due to a 7-meter line of zombies?

[Isgrimnur]

...yes.

[Daehawk]

[hepcat]

Stealth pigs for night operations. I mean, d’uh.

[Grifman]

This is the most fascinating article I have read on China in a long time. Be warned, it is very long, but if you are interested in China, this article is well worth your time:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023 ... of-malaise

[Daehawk]

[Blackhawk]

Care to tell us what that video is about beyond the click-bait title? Tell us why we should watch it.

[Daehawk]

Its about people in china using dyes and chemicals to dye meats ..fish and cow...to look fresh and good. Hiding dangers and also causing cancers. Hey cancer..takes a while...dont care. Seems to be the norm. The Chinese gov does nothing. This is the country that is shipping stuff world wide ..no wonder people in other countries get sick from Chinese exports.

One guy was spray painting ducks to look like mallards so they'd sell well. They really looked like mallards too lol. They are good at faking it.

Winston lived there over a decade. He now exposes their scams and awful fakeness.

[Smoove_B]

So they are kinda doing what we did up until the early 1980s.

Sodium nitrate and nitrite are added to processed and cured meats to preserve shelf life and to give them flavor and a pink color.

Mental note: I should go to China and become a synthpop musical artist.

[Daehawk]

Probably just unregulated.

[Smoove_B]

So kind of like us until 1906, or arguably 1993.

[Grifman]

Those following China may be aware that the Defense Minister just disappeared over the summer, with no official announcement. Well, the former head of the navy was finally named his successor, after the dismissal of the former head was finally announced 3 months ago.

Turns out, Western intelligence has figured out why. It turns out that corruption/incompetence in the Rocket Forces was to blame. Inspection revealed that there were rockets whose fuel had been siphoned off and replaced with water, and it was discovered the nuclear missile silos were found where the missile hatches did not work. Along with the Defense Minister the top two generals in the Rocket Forces were removed, along with two other generals.

Seems China is still struggling with corruption, and you have the wonder his deep does it go.

[malchior]

This story makes for good headlines but I don't think the US government is particularly thrown by it. China is well-known to be a kleptocracy. Corruption is sort of woven right through the whole thing.

The Defense Minister is a headline grabber for sure but they are mostly a figure head for most purposes. They aren't in the chain of command. They don't control the military budget. They salute at parades and the Chinese push them out to face our Secretary of Defense even though they have very different roles in their governments. More so, the fact that he vanished pretty much puts a fine point on the fact that he didn't have power or else he wouldn't have had to steal or cover up for others stealing fuel. He would have been the guy who owns the company selling the fuel to China in the first place.

FWIW I think the major finding of the recent purge was that there was enough to make near future military readiness for say a Taiwan invasion less likely in the short-term. Which is sort of interesting but that probably wasn't much of a risk anyway.

[Daehawk]