Oxygen Not Included!

[LordMortis]

It took a lot of time, this thread, youtube, and the wiki for me to gain a good foothold. I reset a lot. Now a lot of what learned has changed but I'm OK with that. I enjoy the diversion.

I just learned last night that seeds can self plant. That was never the case before. So that's something huge to experiment with.

[jztemple2]

It took a lot of time, this thread, youtube, and the wiki for me to gain a good foothold. I reset a lot. Now a lot of what learned has changed but I'm OK with that. I enjoy the diversion.

Which wiki are you using? I've found two but I don't know if either is the best.

[LordMortis]

Which wiki are you using? I've found two but I don't know if either is the best.

I don't know how current any of them are. I am re-learning the game. At the time I used this

https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com ... luded_Wiki

It was very helpful in learning mechanics and properties and geysers and I don't know what else.

[Formix]

dammit forum, now I have to fire this one back up.

[Lorini]

This database is useful as well.

[jztemple2]

This database is useful as well.

Oh, that's cool too, thanks!

[LordMortis]

Both heat and fresh water are much bigger foes than I remember as is maintaining morale. Glad I am playing easy mode on easy map. Day 81 and I'm finally brave enough to make a coal generator. If I were smarter, I'd put it on the other side of insulated tiles. I have 2 slush geysers near my start, so that should eventually knock down the impending heat problem. My fear is that I will have a polluted water over run problem not too much thereafter, as both geysers are above my base.

Now that I finally have non hamster wheel power and a few tons of coal to keep that power going, it's time to relearn how to pump and sieve water. I'm not sure how many cycles of fresh water I have left and I'm not even farming. I'm using pips to spread seeds, which isn't very efficient on the geography, both making my development very tight and causing the need for a much larger area of gas to be pressurized and balanced.

All the same concepts but totally different. I'm having a good time.

I also read that water output from a sieve is all 40C no matter what they input is, so I have to be picky about the water I am going to use. If grab my slush geyser water it will defeat the purpose of the geysers. If I don't, then I need to worry about over flow. IIRC you can put wall of geysers and they will eventually fill/pressurize and quit spewing. I need to remember that before it's too late.

[jztemple2]

I'm on my second map and again I'm not seeing any crude oil, so I can't make plastic which means no high pressure gas vents as well as other things. Do I just have to keep looking or do some maps just not have crude? As it is I also have very little coal on this map.

[LordMortis]

I'm on my second map and again I'm not seeing any crude oil, so I can't make plastic which means no high pressure gas vents as well as other things. Do I just have to keep looking or do some maps just not have crude? As it is I also have very little coal on this map.

If you are playing the basic asteroid then oil will always be there, you just have to keep digging down. If the game i still the same then before the molten core there will always be to oil geysers somewhere down there.

That said, plastic is mid to late game thing or was the last time I played. My last game, I was 500 cycles in and was just getting to plastic aka just begriming to find a way to bring up oil. In the current form (relearning), I'm 80 cycles in and I've barely broken out of my starting biome for not being able to see a good path to heat mitigation.

88 cycles in and this is all have/see (top goes up and to the left, it was my coolest avenue of escape from my home biome. Escaping sought is proving to be problematic. I found an ice biome to the south east but it's radiating cold, so I decided not to crack it open and start melting it but rather just opened a vent.

[LordMortis]

It took 100 cycles to remember the importance of heat shielding my and putting heat generating items outside. With weezeworts gimped and no more manual fans I'm building makeshift ice depots with an icemaker on the other side of insulation.

The problem now is I'm behind on O2 farming and I'm eating in to the natural fields my pips had planted... Oh and my dups are building skills so quickly they are losing morale.

I don't know why the balancing act appeals to me so much (on easy easy easy) because when I'm at work balancing and making sure non of the spinning plates fall is the source of never ending stress. Perhaps it's because I can always just reset here with no consequences and I know I can save scrum if I make a catastrophic decision.

[Isgrimnur]

Forum effect and the Klei name made me purchase this for myself and the wife.

[LordMortis]

Forum effect and the Klei name made me purchase this for myself and the wife.

This was me in EA right after I said "No more EA games". Klei really have earned a reputation purchase from me on anything that looks interesting and they've earned the EA pass because they sort of incorporate a sort of fun in their development, making a sort of value addition to watching their production and development.

[jztemple2]

That said, plastic is mid to late game thing or was the last time I played. My last game, I was 500 cycles in and was just getting to plastic aka just begriming to find a way to bring up oil.

I'm 40 cycles in on my second colony and I feel like I've been playing it forever. 500?

[LordMortis]

That said, plastic is mid to late game thing or was the last time I played. My last game, I was 500 cycles in and was just getting to plastic aka just begriming to find a way to bring up oil.

I'm 40 cycles in on my second colony and I feel like I've been playing it forever. 500?

I find the game to be relaxing and I enjoy the pace. I put in 120 cycles this weekend, which was far too much of my weekend. Between cycle 100 and 120 I went from 6 to 8 and a typical small project takes between 4 and 10 cycles to complete. Having gotten my heat under control and my O2 and water in spot where I have the short term covered I'm exploring all the yellow heat areas and using pips to build mushroom farms to accommodate my extra dups and upgrade my food source. I expect that to tale my next 20 cycles which probably means Monday and Tuesday. I'll probably also expand my more permanent home area, as my gold is cooled enough to bring it "inside", and my dups love golden hallways. I have about 5 tons of gold I can turn in to living space. I'm thinking a ice water pit is my next internal living space if I have enough gold.

[Lorini]

How are you solving your heat problems? Wheezeworts don't work that well anymore and I haven't figured out any other way.

[Sepiche]

How are you solving your heat problems? Wheezeworts don't work that well anymore and I haven't figured out any other way.

The panic over the Wheezewort changes is a bit overblown. They just require phosphorite now, but the amount is pretty minimal... it's only a concern in the long term, and for people that used Wheezeworts in sealed rooms. They still do a great job of removing heat, they just aren't without drawbacks anymore.

The other method I use for cooling is to find a cold biome and either cycle oxygen through that area for cooling, or generate it there and pipe it into the base. I've also seen people use a closed system of hydrogen (that transfers heat quickly) to absorb heat from the base and transfer it into a cold area like a cold biome, but I haven't got that working myself.

And of course copious amounts of insulation tiles to keep external heat out of the base and to block off things in the base that generate a lot of heat.

[LordMortis]

Solve is a bit of an overstatement. I was also when worts were practically useless

On my false start I couldn't do anything and heat kept building up. It wasn't the death of me but I ended up generally unhappy.

In my current iteration,

1) I used a hamster wheel until probably cycle 80, maybe?
2) I waited too long but I finally put up insulated tile. If I did it again (and I am sure I will) I will put up insulated tile fast.
3) I have opened ventilation to a cool slush geyser and am trying to open up surrounding area to allow it breath. I think that and the CO2 geyser are the only two cooling resource producers. I don't have a CO2 geyser nearby.
4) I quickly (but too slowly) realized my generators need to be on the other side of the insulation and then moved them.
5) I built an ice machine on the other side of the insulation and starting dumping ice inside but this was sucking down way too much coal.
6) I put permanent building structures material in storage around the CSG. It will often cool to 20C or less before I place it if I allow it to. I probably should put the storage containers in the slush but I am still used to slimelung being the single biggest hazard in the game.
5) I was going to keep hot (orange+) and cold areas contained while I formulate an all around better plan but too much heat already inside was killing my plants. So I cracked a cold area and started pulling in ice. This turned out to be a mixed blessing. I exposed an ironically named cool steam vent that is noticeably melting the area. I'd love to tap the vent and learn to harness steam power and I'd love to get at the precious fresh water source but it is in a caustic biome below the ice cavern I am trying to preserve. So far it appears to be surrounded by orange hot and and hotter. A direct dig will destroy the ice cavern. Digging around is prohibitively long and lets too much hot flow.
6) I am hoping that if I surround but don't tap the cold areas the worts will slowly (what is the opposite of radiate) enough cold to start cooling the entire asteroid while I continue to recalibrate.
7) I'm not generally opening more heat producing geysers, vents, volcanoes, but rather letting them pressurize so they become inactive. I have a gold volcano open but I love cold because dups love gold.

I haven't used an ice fan yet.
I haven't harnessed an anti entropy machine (whatever they are called) yet but that is on my short list. I still need a good water supply so I can get a good hydrogen supply before I even think about it.

Right now my concerns are three fold, feeding 8 dups, generating enough coal or switching power sources, more than short term water supply. I should have 20-40 cycles or more water, so I'm working on food and power while exploring for water and probably building a bit more inside.

I'll post pictures when I get home if I'm not too wiped.




Some things are way easier since last November. Some things way harder.

On easy level

sickness used to be a game changer. You had to watch closely and even then heatstroke, hypothermia, and slimelung could take a dup out for days and another dup would have tend them. Now you don't really get warning but sickness is pretty trivial.

Mood OTOH, was something I never watched. Now I'm trying to skill up in the new system to mitigate against mood loss.

On the two games I've played fresh water is much more precious. So much so, in this second game I'm not farming at all. When I learned about self planting seeds (or as the reality goes, pip planted seeds) I reset and jumped at the first pip (egg in my case) to be offered in the care packages. Food would have been a killer in this game if it weren't for the pip. The muckroot that was so abundant in my first game was just luck.

The asteroid seems smaller than it was. Add the saltwater biomes and that means a lot more heat and a lot less slime and PH2O to tap in to for easy oxygen.

All in all the game is much more challenging than it was even on easy and even as your easy dups seem to be hardened against sickness. It makes me wonder what the learning curve is like. I think I'd be much more frustrated by the balancing act in its current state if I was just learning the game from scratch.

[LordMortis]

The panic over the Wheezewort changes is a bit overblown. They just require phosphorite now, but the amount is pretty minimal... it's only a concern in the long term, and for people that used Wheezeworts in sealed rooms. They still do a great job of removing heat, they just aren't without drawbacks anymore.

The other method I use for cooling is to find a cold biome and either cycle oxygen through that area for cooling, or generate it there and pipe it into the base. I've also seen people use a closed system of hydrogen (that transfers heat quickly) to absorb heat from the base and transfer it into a cold area like a cold biome, but I haven't got that working myself.

And of course copious amounts of insulation tiles to keep external heat out of the base and to block off things in the base that generate a lot of heat.

I don't know about overblown. In addition to the phosphorite (which it eat quickly) it doesn't cool like it used to. A weezewort used to counteract a coal generator and was stronger than a pair of research stations. Now it might counteract a research station and definitely can't keep up with a coal burner. It might counteract a barracks. I pretty much decided they do more good preserving a cold area than they do trying cool my base... Though I still jump at one if it comes in care package. I give it to a pip and them decide where to put it.

I haven't gotten to any of the more advanced features of moving gases yet. It's too low on the priorities list.

[jztemple2]

On easy level

sickness used to be a game changer. You had to watch closely and even then heatstroke, hypothermia, and slimelung could take a dup out for days and another dup would have tend them. Now you don't really get warning but sickness is pretty trivial.

Is Easy Level playing on Terra, or "No Sweat" vs "Survival"? I'm not really feeling like the existence of my colony has been threatened by anything. On my 40th cycle I haven't even had someone get sick.

I played last night, not quite as late as I've been playing, but still past when I have usually been going to sleep (about 1am). I'm expanding my oxygen systems to include all the available types, although I put two CO2 scrubbers way up in my structure where there isn't any CO2 . I wish I could move them. I've also started using the gizmo that converts polluted water to good water. As an ex-plumber engineer (Fluids) it's right up my alley. It's all those electrons that confuse me

[Isgrimnur]

I put two CO2 scrubbers way up in my structure where there isn't any CO2

Deconstructing refunds the resources, so you can just build them again somewhere else.
...
I extended my colony upwards. For a while, all my cots were at the lowest level. People kept waking up so they could go breathe.

[Lorini]

On easy level

sickness used to be a game changer. You had to watch closely and even then heatstroke, hypothermia, and slimelung could take a dup out for days and another dup would have tend them. Now you don't really get warning but sickness is pretty trivial.

Is Easy Level playing on Terra, or "No Sweat" vs "Survival"? I'm not really feeling like the existence of my colony has been threatened by anything. On my 40th cycle I haven't even had someone get sick.

I played last night, not quite as late as I've been playing, but still past when I have usually been going to sleep (about 1am). I'm expanding my oxygen systems to include all the available types, although I put two CO2 scrubbers way up in my structure where there isn't any CO2 . I wish I could move them. I've also started using the gizmo that converts polluted water to good water. As an ex-plumber engineer (Fluids) it's right up my alley. It's all those electrons that confuse me

The water coming out of the gizmo is a lot hotter than the water going in. If you're using that water for farming you are going to heat up the base and kill the plants (depending on which ones you're irrigating with). If you only use it for toilets/showers it's fine.

[jztemple2]

I put two CO2 scrubbers way up in my structure where there isn't any CO2

Deconstructing refunds the resources, so you can just build them again somewhere else.

Shoot, I forgot about that! Again, I'm stuck in real world thinking where once resources are used they are lost forever in the original form. Does this hold true even in Survival mode?

[jztemple2]

The water coming out of the gizmo is a lot hotter than the water going in. If you're using that water for farming you are going to heat up the base and kill the plants (depending on which ones you're irrigating with). If you only use it for toilets/showers it's fine.

This game keeps getting better and better

[Isgrimnur]

I put two CO2 scrubbers way up in my structure where there isn't any CO2

Deconstructing refunds the resources, so you can just build them again somewhere else.

Shoot, I forgot about that! Again, I'm stuck in real world thinking where once resources are used they are lost forever in the original form. Does this hold true even in Survival mode?

That's the only mode I've played, so it's my only source of information.

[LordMortis]

Is Easy Level playing on Terra, or "No Sweat" vs "Survival"? I'm not really feeling like the existence of my colony has been threatened by anything. On my 40th cycle I haven't even had someone get sick.

For me that is Terra on No Sweat where I cherry picked a world knowingly getting a CSG and gold volcano from https://toolsnotincluded.net/

You can take it a step further and see the biomes and geysers, but that's a bit too easy mode.

I don't know the value of geysers, volcanoes, and vents anymore but in my last go at it, I'd get pretty deep in to games and feel frustrated that I couldn't progress, learning to do what I needed to learn if the right geysers weren't there. So much so, I started using the debug mode to hunt the map before I start. https://toolsnotincluded.net/ allows you do put in requirements and if someone has uploaded a seed that meets them, you can enter it. I probably generated and uploaded a few hundred seeds for the mod before I started playing.

I've had plenty get sick but I have been sending dups into slime and cold and hot with reckless abandon as the consequences for doing so has been trivial. (I haven't dug down or up enough to hit the real threats yet)

I wish I could move them. I've also started using the gizmo that converts polluted water to good water. As an ex-plumber engineer (Fluids) it's right up my alley. It's all those electrons that confuse me

I know that feeling but I also don't have a problem destroying a system and moving it when it suits me or extending pipes, etc... to make awkward use of an existing structure until it becomes burdensome. (See the fact that I am over cycles into a game without much progression)

I had to get the water sieve up early. Clean water is my most precious resource on my map... Soon I will have to relocated it or build some awkward structures to keep using it. I've dried up nearly all the PH2O left and above my colony that is not cold water from the geyser.

Which reminds me. Things I don't like

1) Dups choices on where to store things
2) Dups priory for trivial things, like collecting polluted dirt from the sieve or turning polluted dirt from the compost.

There seems to be a setting in the jobs window that tells dups to prefer proximity. I may need to test it. I just hate to do things that way because this version of the game begs for dup specialization so much more than it used to.

The water coming out of the gizmo is a lot hotter than the water going in. If you're using that water for farming you are going to heat up the base and kill the plants (depending on which ones you're irrigating with). If you only use it for toilets/showers it's fine.

The Internet says the seive always outputs at 40C. I haven't put this to the test. But conceivably it could mean the water coming out is a lot cooler than the water going in but it will still be too hot farming.

Here is a sample of that claim

https://oni-assistant.com/tools/coolingcalculator

I also am primarily using my sieve water for hand washing and research. I have no other current use. I have stalled farming in favor of pip planting.

[Isgrimnur]

1) Dups choices on where to store things

Storage lockers have settings that you can limit to particular items.

[LordMortis]

1) Dups choices on where to store things

Storage lockers have settings that you can limit to particular items.

I use that frequently but that's not always the solution. Example, I have debris above, below, left, and right. All debris contains sandstone. I have storage above, bellow, left, and right. Dups proceed to choose whichever piles they want and deliver to whichever storage they want. I can micromanage this by setting priorities of both the debris and the containers and then normalizing later but not only is this pain and not an aspect of the game I enjoy, even a little. It also throws off the normal balance of their workload.

[LordMortis]

I'm hoping this is big enough to be seen in single screen captures.

Before I eat and play...

This is my heat



Above you can see the CSG and how I've tried to open area around it to let the cool out. I'm surrounded by insullation. I'm not opening geysers or superheated areas while I explore. I'm dropping ice into containers that will eventually be clean water sources. The ice is being pulled up from the southeast off screen I have heat generation on the outside as best I can. So far I have little machinery and all those containers you see up top by the CSG are priority storage for my building metal which absorbs and releases cold the fastest. My lone wheezewort isn't doing much.





This realistically my colony, panned in a bit from the whole heat view so you can see structures more clearly. No farms. Just pip release stations. No water and the PH2O water up top is my source of cool so I don't want sieve it into hot clean water... yet... This about 120 cycles in. The algae plants are turned off to preserve water. I recently grown from six to eight dups so I am expanding my pip planters to the southwest to grow mushrooms in the slime.

So slow compared to most people I guess, but it's the game I enjoy.

[jztemple2]

Those are some cool screenshots Or are they hot?

Right now my biggest challenge is figuring out the food system. I've ignored the critters and am trying to set up a reliable farming process, but thankfully my dups don't seem to mind eating a lot of mush

[LordMortis]

Those are some cool screenshots Or are they hot?

Right now my biggest challenge is figuring out the food system. I've ignored the critters and am trying to set up a reliable farming process, but thankfully my dups don't seem to mind eating a lot of mush

I am in no position to farm. Water is just too sacred. Critter food is good but it's some long cycles. reddit says pips are broken. They might be but I am thankful for them. The trade off is real estate. The biggest barrier to development for me is my food source taking up so much room and I don't want move colony in to the heat.

Food balance is hard. It would probably be easier if I bothered to learn the math. I believe a dup consumes 1000 calories a day (could be wrong) but I don't sit down and and figure out how many cycles a wild mushroom take vs a farmed mushroom and then convert fried mushrooms calories per day based on optimal growth cycles (my mushroom rarely grow optimally)

I'm staying away from mush. I already depend too much on meal lice and my dup morale is suffering for it. I'm trying to convert to mushrooms but the process is slow. I thank the printer every time a good meal shows up... or 8 pacu. 8 fried fish filets is a lot of happy dup time.

[Sepiche]

Not perfect, but I'm chugging along. The upside of being on the ocean asteroid is vast quantities of fresh water (once I desalinate it).

[jztemple2]

Not perfect, but I'm chugging along. The upside of being on the ocean asteroid is vast quantities of fresh water (once I desalinate it).

How are you folks getting Steam screenshots that include so much of your colony? This is the max zoom out I'm getting:



UPDATE: Also, I'm making floors completely out of Mesh Tile, but I think that's overkill. Does having a Mesh tile every third or fourth tile do just as well?

[Sepiche]

How are you folks getting Steam screenshots that include so much of your colony?

Alt-S goes to screenshot mode.

UPDATE: Also, I'm making floors completely out of Mesh Tile, but I think that's overkill. Does having a Mesh tile every third or fourth tile do just as well?

I tend to use a wide central ladder and a few vents on each floor, and that seems to be enough to ensure airflow.

[Isgrimnur]

I breached a natural gas geyser before I got the airlock installed. Yellow alert!

[jztemple2]

How are you folks getting Steam screenshots that include so much of your colony?

Alt-S goes to screenshot mode.

Thanks for the help. Here's my current colony, Cycle 54, Terra on No Sweat:

[LordMortis]

How are you folks getting Steam screenshots that include so much of your colony?

Alt-S goes to screenshot mode.

UPDATE: Also, I'm making floors completely out of Mesh Tile, but I think that's overkill. Does having a Mesh tile every third or fourth tile do just as well?

I tend to use a wide central ladder and a few vents on each floor, and that seems to be enough to ensure airflow.

My pattern seems to be a floor of 131 tiles including room dividers with a ladder and pole on each side and two mesh tiles next the outside of each end.

Look at all that beautiful water you have, JZ

[Lorini]

40C=100F. You keep irrigating with 100F water and you will have a hot base

[Tampa_Gamer]

Like others, now that it has released I have taken this game off the shelf and am trying a fresh playthrough. Things are definitely more polished and am enjoying my current game (still very early stage - <30 cycles). I don’t think any of my 2018 games ever spanned past 100 cycles due to resetitus striking once I had an "ah ha" moment and I realized I had doomed my dupes in some manner.

Question - perhaps I never got the hang of this concept in past attempts, but I see folks (including the well-known Jahws guides) suggest conserving water by utilizing recycling polluted water into just germy water for re-use in the sinks and lavatories. I tried this set-up again, and was horrified to find that when I toggled the germ view, my entire base and each dupe were covered in germs. Was there a change in a recent update that "corrected" this loophole? or perhaps being covered in germs is OK because technically the dupes are not digesting it (just spreading it everywhere)!

[LordMortis]

I may or may not have time start tackling that problem tonight. I'm thinking I might try to build a clean water pit inside cool slush run off, pump PH2O through a sieve into a pit with a lot of surface area and thermally sensitive containment, let it chill and then pump clean chilled H2O in to base...

... or not... Real estate may be too difficult at this point and the effort may be too high but I'll evaluate the possibility when I get in front of the game.

Another challenge to my real estate is that I have two food poisoned water supply spots of fairly considerable size, having forgotten about food poisoning. With little real estate, building a way to treat them effectively so I can build in those directions is going to be a challenge. Probably the biggest not short term problem I will be facing in the near game. If I were made of time, that "oops" would be the catalyst for a false start.

hat said, the game will get out of hand. You will mis-calculate and you will work at franticly fixing your mistake for a good long time after you make it, even as you pause to re calibrate again and again. If you are like me, you will get annoyed at your own failure and call it a learning lesson and start another game.

it's not frantic but this is my oops realization that has me annoyed a mistake that has easy solution for the foreseeable future and has me wanting to hit the reset button. The other annoyance is that stupid steam geyser discovery heat permeating my beautiful ice biome and slowly making the wheat and wheezeworts in to seeds instead of plants. I so want to prioritize getting the Anti Entropy something something up and running but there just isn't a reasonable way to get a good source of contained hydrogen. I can't commit the dups to setting a good contained and fully functional water>electrolizer>hydrogen>AE... system up and going.

[LordMortis]

Question - perhaps I never got the hang of this concept in past attempts, but I see folks (including the well-known Jahws guides) suggest conserving water by utilizing recycling polluted water into just germy water for re-use in the sinks and lavatories. I tried this set-up again, and was horrified to find that when I toggled the germ view, my entire base and each dupe were covered in germs. Was there a change in a recent update that "corrected" this loophole? or perhaps being covered in germs is OK because technically the dupes are not digesting it (just spreading it everywhere)!

This worked for me in November of last year. As long as they had showers and sinks and lavatories at 1:1:1 with the lavatory being the most interior furnishing, I had no problems food poisoning spread, even if the recycled water was germy.