All Things Saudi

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13681
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

Trudeau doesn't eternally campaign on the idea that he is the only person strong enough to save the country.

But by all means, let's be civil and not mock Trump unfairly.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
gbasden
Posts: 7664
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:57 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by gbasden »

Given that he's about the only world leader that wants to give MBS a blanket pardon for his actions, he should be forced to listen to the torture and death multiple times. He is incapable of feeling empathy, but at least he would get some minor discomfort and it's probably good for what shriveled part of his soul still exists.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Max Peck wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:47 pm Trudeau doesn't eternally campaign on the idea that he is the only person strong enough to save the country.

But by all means, let's be civil and not mock Trump unfairly.
It's like you only read the parts that let you be an ass.
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13681
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:00 pm
Max Peck wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:47 pm Trudeau doesn't eternally campaign on the idea that he is the only person strong enough to save the country.

But by all means, let's be civil and not mock Trump unfairly.
It's like you only read the parts that let you be an ass.
#Triggered
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

Max Peck wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:57 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:00 pm
Max Peck wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:47 pm Trudeau doesn't eternally campaign on the idea that he is the only person strong enough to save the country.

But by all means, let's be civil and not mock Trump unfairly.
It's like you only read the parts that let you be an ass.
#Triggered
Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Captain Caveman
Posts: 11687
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:57 am

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Captain Caveman »



It has to be read to be believed. It's insane.

Click above to see the rest of it, including this gem: "Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!"
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 17449
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Don't forget - Saudi Arabia says he was an enemy of the state and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood! That may not be true, and it definitely didn't affect my decision, but I wanted to just throw that out there.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by ImLawBoy »

I thought that had to be satire.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Octavious
Posts: 20035
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Octavious »

F this timeline. It just gets worse and worse and worse and worse.
Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.

Shameless plug for my website: www.nettphoto.com
User avatar
Captain Caveman
Posts: 11687
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:57 am

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Captain Caveman »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:05 pm Don't forget - Saudi Arabia says he was an enemy of the state and a member of the Muslim Brotherhood! That may not be true, and it definitely didn't affect my decision, but I wanted to just throw that out there.
It's a good thing Trump has never declared a journalist to be the enemy of the people. Otherwise I might be worried from this statement that he thinks it's okay to kill them.
User avatar
$iljanus
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13676
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 pm
Location: New England...or under your bed

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by $iljanus »

Captain Caveman wrote:

It has to be read to be believed. It's insane.

Click above to see the rest of it, including this gem: "Our intelligence agencies continue to assess all information, but it could very well be that the Crown Prince had knowledge of this tragic event – maybe he did and maybe he didn’t!"
He certainly isn't shy about the use of the exclamation point!

It reads like something out of 5th grade or middle school sprinkled with factoids taken from various talking points.
Black lives matter!

Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

tl;dr:

" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "

"Also, we don't care too much about murdered journos when buddies who hate our baddies do it."
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41243
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by El Guapo »

And you know he's feeling very proud of himself about this statement.
Black Lives Matter.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

WTF? That is beyond self parody. So his approach is basically, "I'll talk about some 'positive' stuff before I get to the part where I sort of say they did a bad thing. However, obviously it isn't a big deal because of all this other stuff somehow balances it out". Wtf. Is our government mentally ill or evil? Probably both but you can't tell anymore.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8486
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth »

I'd like to see how he answered the 'Her Emails' question.
User avatar
Max Peck
Posts: 13681
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:09 pm
Location: Down the Rabbit-Hole

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

Meanwhile, back in Saudi Arabia, we're just looking at a little light locker room torture.

Saudi Arabia 'tortured female activists', charities say
Saudi Arabia tortured and sexually harassed human rights activists, including several women, human rights groups have alleged.

Prisoners in the kingdom's Dhahban Prison have allegedly been electrocuted and flogged.

Saudi Arabia arrested several women's rights activists earlier this year and influential clerics and intellectuals have also been detained.

The BBC has approached the Saudi authorities for comment.

Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch issued statements on Tuesday detailing alleged torture of detained prisoners.

Activists were left unable to walk or stand properly after electrocution and flogging, an Amnesty International release said, with one women reportedly sexually harassed by interrogators in face masks.

Human Rights Watch's release also speaks of electrocution, as well as whipping and "forcible hugging and kissing" of at least three detained women.
"What? What? What?" -- The 14th Doctor

It's not enough to be a good player... you also have to play well. -- Siegbert Tarrasch
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

El Guapo wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:25 pm And you know he's feeling very proud of himself about this statement.
He might need some cream for this burn though:


Iranian FM Zarif lashes out at President Trump’s comments about Iran in his statement declaring solidarity with Saudis, calling it “shameful,” and asking, “Perhaps we’re also responsible for the California fires, because we didn’t help rake the forests— just like the Finns do?”
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Ah. I see the president has raised the bar on international diplomacy.

I eagerly await the "I know you are but what am I" missive.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33592
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Remus West »

I knew he had made us the laughing stock of the world the moment he got elected. I just always figured it would be kept behind closed doors. Now we are being openly mocked for stupidity by Iran. Lovely. So much winning.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70097
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

Remus West wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:11 am I knew he had made us the laughing stock of the world the moment he got elected. I just always figured it would be kept behind closed doors. Now we are being openly mocked for stupidity by Iran. Lovely. So much winning.
I was thinking about this very thing from that same bit. I mentally settled on the idea that the US and its leadership has always been openly mocked by by the leadership in countries like Iran but the difference is so striking now because they don't have to stretch the truth and much of citizenry openly agrees with the mocking.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

To clarify, Iran is being equally childish.

The difference being that western leadership used to be above this sort of thing, even if the dictators, autocracies, oligarchies and theocracies weren't.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 pm To clarify, Iran is being equally childish.

The difference being that western leadership used to be above this sort of thing, even if the dictators, autocracies, oligarchies and theocracies weren't.
Reagan did this all the time, and the world loved him for it.

Generally, though, free societies offload the task onto pundits and other media figures. Iran is working with the handicap of having jailed or silenced all their Colberts.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

A search for "Reagan childish insults" did not return anything relevant on the first page.

I'm open to hearing how Reagan did this all the time. Can someone point me to some examples?

Another search for "Reagan insults world leaders" resulted in this
In the United States, there aren’t that many examples of egregious public insults of foreign officials, although Ronald Reagan did call Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi “the mad dog of the Middle East.”
Which is hardly childish, nor unwarranted. There are times when name calling is completely appropriate. Calling Putin a thug, for example.

Free societies don't "offload it to pundits". Leaders of free societies wouldn't suddenly start throwing around childish insults if pundits magically started keeping their mouths shut on the matter. Similarly, Iran and Saudi have plenty of state run media to do their insulting for them (and they do, witness Saudi attacks on Canada recently), yet they choose to do it themselves anyway.

I refute your premise on multiple grounds.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Reagan loved to pepper his speeches with jokes about the Soviet Union. Here's a five-minute video of examples that came up immediately.

To Western ears, these were good-natured humor (well, maybe not this one), but I imagine the Soviet leaders thought they were childish.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Holman wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:40 pm Reagan loved to pepper his speeches with jokes about the Soviet Union. Here's a five-minute video of examples that came up immediately.
If you knew what you were looking for perhaps. As pointed out, 2 searches resulted in zero hits.

Thanks for the followup.

For the record I think the bombing in 5 minutes joke is hilarious and certainly not childish. If he called Gorbachev a poopyhead he might be discussed in the same breath as drumpf, but even then I'd assume he was being intentionally childish for a point, but petulantly childish while unaware he was being so.

edit: Watched a little of video, and if you think childish is simply a joke at someone's expense, then we have different views of childish. Particularly when what was being discussed was childish and mean spirited insults. There's nothing funny or even intended to be funny about what drumpf says or Iran's response.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Greengoo, Reagan's use of jokes is well known, as is the fact that "The bombing starts in five minutes" inflamed tensions at a stressful Cold War moment. The latter actually put Soviet forces on global alert, and there is probably no better example of attempted humor putting human lives at risk.
GreenGoo wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:33 pm edit: Watched a little of video, and if you think childish is simply a joke at someone's expense, then we have different views of childish. Particularly when what was being discussed was childish and mean spirited insults. There's nothing funny or even intended to be funny about what drumpf says or Iran's response.
You're the one who made "childishness" the criteria. If calling Trump out for comparing California's disaster response to completely imaginary Finnish forest-management practices is childish, what isn't?

The nature of humor is that it as always contextual. As it happens, Finnish government official have made the same joke as the Iranians. Should they be condemned too?
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Holman wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:27 pm You're the one who made "childishness" the criteria. If calling Trump out for comparing California's disaster response to completely imaginary Finnish forest-management practices is childish, what isn't?

The nature of humor is that it as always contextual. As it happens, Finnish government official have made the same joke as the Iranians. Should they be condemned too?
It's true. I did. As evidenced by this:
GreenGoo wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:53 pm To clarify, Iran is being equally childish.
In fact that was the entire premise for my criticism. You've attempted to equate Reagan's off the record accidental open mic joke with Drumpf's public attack tweets.

Drumpf and Iran are busy criticizing and mocking each other in the most childish way possible. If you think the Finnish government is participating equally and in the same context, then by all means include them. Do you?
User avatar
Chaz
Posts: 7381
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:37 am
Location: Southern NH

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Chaz »

Trump now saying that he regrets the killing, but MBS regrets it even more, and actually, the world is to blame.
I can't imagine, even at my most inebriated, hearing a bouncer offering me an hour with a stripper for only $1,400 and thinking That sounds like a reasonable idea.-Two Sheds
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

I can't believe he let Acosta off the hook, as he's who's clearly to blame.

Drumpf has an amazing ability to forgive and turn the other cheek.
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

Oy vey.



As an aside a few reporters have suddenly dropped their gloves lately. CBS's Paula Reid also real-time fact checked Trump about one of his statements to his face today. He predictably just walked away. Guess the Acosta affair got their dander up a little.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

WaPo
Senators emerged from a closed-door briefing with the CIA director on Tuesday and accused the Saudi crown prince of complicity in the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

In some of their strongest accusations to date, lawmakers said evidence presented by the U.S. spy agency overwhelmingly pointed to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s involvement in the assassination.

Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said while there was no smoking gun, there was a “smoking saw,” referring to the bone saw that investigators have said was used to dismember Khashoggi after he was killed by a team of agents from Saudi Arabia in that country’s consulate in Istanbul in October.

Graham made clear that business as usual with the Saudis had come to end, and said the United States should come down on the government in Riyadh like “a ton of bricks,” adding that he could no longer support arms sales to the Saudis as long as Mohammed was in charge.
...
Senators put themselves in direct opposition to the White House, making clear that the evidence they heard had convinced them beyond the shadow of a doubt.

“If the Crown Prince went in front of a jury, he would be convicted in 30 minutes,” said Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), the chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations.
Let's see how long the outrage lasts. :coffee:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by hepcat »

If they're still outraged on Friday I'll be surprised.
Covfefe!
malchior
Posts: 24794
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

Exactly - Friday is a stretch. I'll also note that this is a feisty Graham. I wonder if Trump told him he wasn't getting the AG nod after all.
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8486
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth »

In which Graham admits what a hypocritical partisan he is. Starts at :39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_yROrhwPTY

I still don't understand why this is where the GOP decides to stand up to Trump.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by GreenGoo »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm I still don't understand why this is where the GOP decides to stand up to Trump.
Murder is a pretty fundamental wrong, and it's more tangible than most they are familiar with.

Maybe?
User avatar
Sepiche
Posts: 8112
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:00 pm
Location: Olathe, KS

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Sepiche »

I think a lot of the outrage on display after that meeting was more to do with the ham handed way the administration tried to keep the senate from getting briefed by the CIA.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 17424
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by pr0ner »

Hodor.
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Unagi »

missing Mitch. :roll:
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70097
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

Alefroth wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:52 pm I still don't understand why this is where the GOP decides to stand up to Trump.
Negotiating tactic? Trump may be the deplorable pied piper (who hates rats oddly enough) but his interests are not the interests of the GOP. They're using each other. I'm sure the GOP would love nothing more than to have the thralls turn on the sorcerer and look like champions for taking down "one of their own" because he was dirty.
Post Reply