Game of Thrones Season 8

[gameoverman]

The Night King raising the dead in the crypt to use against the living would be a stupid development, so I can't believe that would happen. The only way I could tolerate a turn of events like that would be if the skeletons were stop motion animated, like in the old Sinbad movies. Imagine a stop motion headless skeletonized Ned Stark sword fighting Jon! Who doesn't want to see that?

[$iljanus]

The Night King raising the dead in the crypt to use against the living would be a stupid development, so I can't believe that would happen. The only way I could tolerate a turn of events like that would be if the skeletons were stop motion animated, like in the old Sinbad movies. Imagine a stop motion headless skeletonized Ned Stark sword fighting Jon! Who doesn't want to see that?

A sword in one hand and his head in the other would do nicely.

[hepcat]

I started getting worried about the crypts in the first 5 seconds of episode 1, when I saw they were featured in the pop-up book intro.

I've seen a lot of speculation on this, but I don't get it. I mean thematically it makes sense, but practically it doesn't. The north has been burning their dead at least since Jon came back. All the bodies in the crypt should be dust and bones by now. Well, except Rickon. He's no threat. He'll just run straight towards his inevitable death.

[Holman]

Last we saw, Ned's bones were in a 3x2 chest Amazoned to Caitlin by Littlefinger.

Did she ever even return to Winterfell after that point? Maybe resurrected Dead Ned is bumping around in a box in a storage room at The Twins.

[morlac]

In a Bran flashback (more like a dream)about the mad king he was muttering burn them all over and over kind of like Hodor with the Hold the door. I wonder if during an upcoming flashback as Bran is in "both" times if he doesnt mistakingly plant the burn them all craziness in his head thus kickstarting this whole thing. The mad king wasnt always mad.

Which could tie back to my theory that the secret to defeating the walkers is in King's Landing, forcing them to into a running battle back to the south.

I can dig this.

[Jaymann]

I don't think they can run fast enough, and they certainly can't sleep.

[El Guapo]

I started getting worried about the crypts in the first 5 seconds of episode 1, when I saw they were featured in the pop-up book intro.

I've seen a lot of speculation on this, but I don't get it. I mean thematically it makes sense, but practically it doesn't. The north has been burning their dead at least since Jon came back. All the bodies in the crypt should be dust and bones by now. Well, except Rickon. He's no threat. He'll just run straight towards his inevitable death.

There's also another line of speculation. They've said a few times on the show how there are basically secret passages out of Winterfell, to allow the lords to escape as necessary. There's also some speculation that the Night King is a Stark (either Bran, or some other Stark of ancient lore, like Bran the Builder). If the Night King is, they may know about the secret passages, and send wights in that way.

[Rumpy]

I think I've figured out who gets the throne in the end...

[Holman]

House Henson FTW.

[noxiousdog]

I started getting worried about the crypts in the first 5 seconds of episode 1, when I saw they were featured in the pop-up book intro.

I've seen a lot of speculation on this, but I don't get it. I mean thematically it makes sense, but practically it doesn't. The north has been burning their dead at least since Jon came back. All the bodies in the crypt should be dust and bones by now. Well, except Rickon. He's no threat. He'll just run straight towards his inevitable death.

There's also another line of speculation. They've said a few times on the show how there are basically secret passages out of Winterfell, to allow the lords to escape as necessary. There's also some speculation that the Night King is a Stark (either Bran, or some other Stark of ancient lore, like Bran the Builder). If the Night King is, they may know about the secret passages, and send wights in that way.

We had some thoughts to the dead Starks fighting against the Night King. Benjen was dead, but he was outside the Night King's power and fought against him. Perhaps that's why they have the crypts? You'd assume that would be in Stark lore though.

[Isgrimnur]

Anyone seen Old Nan lately?

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I think there's a greater than zero chance that we 1) see a zombie Hodor and 2) Tormund Giantsbane is killed by a zombie giant.

[El Guapo]

I think there's a greater than zero chance that we 1) see a zombie Hodor and 2) Tormund Giantsbane is killed by a zombie giant.

I doubt we'll see zombie Hodor. I think there's a reasonable chance that we see at least one main character in wight form. Not sure who is the most likely, but I'd put Grey Worm near the top of that list - will be in the thick of things, just had a happy "one day from retirement" moment with Missandei, and it would be sufficiently heartbreaking (especially if zombie Grey Worm attacked Missandei).

[Ralph-Wiggum]

I think there's a greater than zero chance that we 1) see a zombie Hodor and 2) Tormund Giantsbane is killed by a zombie giant.

I doubt we'll see zombie Hodor.

Maybe we won’t see him, we’ll just hear him.

[Hyena]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

[Punisher]

I guess on balance I'm leaning towards: (1) white walkers win the Battle of Winterfell, but in the process the heroes learn some information that sets up a desperate 'attack on the Death Star' to happen in episode 4, or 4-5. Then 5 and 6 are basically the battle for the iron throne (though that would seem somewhat abbreviated).

Or else they discover that the exhaust port is in King's Landing and are forced to confront that front while the (now enlarged) white walker army breathes down their neck.

I'm planning to rewatch the entire series with the whole family (the kids are finally old enough), and I really look forward to seeing this pre-battle episode again later once everything has played out. I have a feeling that there was a lot of stuff foreshadowed here that we didn't even catch.

What if the exhaust port IS in Kings Landing.. the north somehow tricks the walkers into going to kings landing full force and then detonates a secret cache of wildfire which destroys Kings Landing and the Iron Throne with it?

[Punisher]

Also, I'm pretty sure bad things are going to happen in the Crypt, because, you know, crypt.

I’ve read a prediction that

Spoiler:

the dead Starks in the crypt will rise and fight against the living. Zombie (and headless?) Ned Stark incoming?

I’m sure I missed it, but how does the night kings powers work? Do they activate by touch or is it within a certain radius? This would be what makes this idea plausible or not.

[Holman]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

I don't think there's anything apocalyptic about the Lannisters vs Starks contest that would have needed thousands of years of prophetic preparation.

If Martin is clear on anything, it's that politics is a dirty grubby violent business and that it has always been so. There have been dozens of wars on the scale of this one, and I don't expect that we're heading for a lasting peace in Westeros even after the dead are defeated and a relatively good ruler gets the throne for a while.

My guess is that Martin has been writing towards (but might never finish) a truly apocalyptic contest involving the gods and their adherents. Recent books have made more of the Lord of Light and the Drowned God and whatever god-level evil force lies *behind* the White Walkers, for example, but this is precisely the stuff the show hasn't had time for.

[hepcat]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

I don't think there's anything apocalyptic about the Lannisters vs Starks contest that would have needed thousands of years of prophetic preparation.

Yet. You'd obviously want to act before that happened.

[Blackhawk]

I’m sure I missed it, but how does the night kings powers work? Do they activate by touch or is it within a certain radius? This would be what makes this idea plausible or not.

Spoiler:

Answer

[Hyena]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

I don't think there's anything apocalyptic about the Lannisters vs Starks contest that would have needed thousands of years of prophetic preparation.

If Martin is clear on anything, it's that politics is a dirty grubby violent business and that it has always been so. There have been dozens of wars on the scale of this one, and I don't expect that we're heading for a lasting peace in Westeros even after the dead are defeated and a relatively good ruler gets the throne for a while.

My guess is that Martin has been writing towards (but might never finish) a truly apocalyptic contest involving the gods and their adherents. Recent books have made more of the Lord of Light and the Drowned God and whatever god-level evil force lies *behind* the White Walkers, for example, but this is precisely the stuff the show hasn't had time for.

True, but this is the show I'm talking about, not the books. There are HUGE chunks of the story missing from the books, including the story of the gods, the prophecy of the risen warrior (can't remember the name), Lady Stoneheart, etc. I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books. The Lord of Light is pretty much the only one that has been mentioned, and it's mostly been just to show how "he" has ressurection powers (and to add a "magical" touch to the show). The Drowned One has only been mentioned in passing just a few times IIRC, and they aren't going to bring in something like that with four episodes left. I can see them setting up a Lord of Light showdown with the Night King, but even still, as you mentioned, this show is about the people embroiled in politics, not a grand clash between the gods. That seems secondary to the stories we've watched unfold in the show.

At the risk of getting flamed (pun intended), I'm not even 100% the Lord of Light is the "good guy" in all this. Think of all the blood magic and death that was done in his name through the Red Woman: the sacrificing of Stannis' daughter, shadow baby assassins, wrong prophecies etc. I wouldn't be surprised to find they are trying to set up a big twist like I mentioned above, with the NK being a form of protection from the Lord of Light that backfired on the Children of the Forest that created him.

Also please feel free to ignore my commentary as uninformed gibberish. I just like a good twist, and I'm not fully up on all the lore of the novel. Sometimes I miss things or forget them. I'm also not a smart man.

[Jeff V]

I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books.

Yes, such as mid story. How did the last book end again? Exactly like that.

[Hyena]

I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books.

Yes, such as mid story. How did the last book end again? Exactly like that.

Not...sure I understand what you mean.

[Jaymann]

I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books.

Yes, such as mid story. How did the last book end again? Exactly like that.

Are you saying we have already seen the last of the books?

[pr0ner]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

I don't think there's anything apocalyptic about the Lannisters vs Starks contest that would have needed thousands of years of prophetic preparation.

If Martin is clear on anything, it's that politics is a dirty grubby violent business and that it has always been so. There have been dozens of wars on the scale of this one, and I don't expect that we're heading for a lasting peace in Westeros even after the dead are defeated and a relatively good ruler gets the throne for a while.

My guess is that Martin has been writing towards (but might never finish) a truly apocalyptic contest involving the gods and their adherents. Recent books have made more of the Lord of Light and the Drowned God and whatever god-level evil force lies *behind* the White Walkers, for example, but this is precisely the stuff the show hasn't had time for.

True, but this is the show I'm talking about, not the books. There are HUGE chunks of the story missing from the books, including the story of the gods, the prophecy of the risen warrior (can't remember the name), Lady Stoneheart, etc. I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books. The Lord of Light is pretty much the only one that has been mentioned, and it's mostly been just to show how "he" has ressurection powers (and to add a "magical" touch to the show). The Drowned One has only been mentioned in passing just a few times IIRC, and they aren't going to bring in something like that with four episodes left. I can see them setting up a Lord of Light showdown with the Night King, but even still, as you mentioned, this show is about the people embroiled in politics, not a grand clash between the gods. That seems secondary to the stories we've watched unfold in the show.

At the risk of getting flamed (pun intended), I'm not even 100% the Lord of Light is the "good guy" in all this. Think of all the blood magic and death that was done in his name through the Red Woman: the sacrificing of Stannis' daughter, shadow baby assassins, wrong prophecies etc. I wouldn't be surprised to find they are trying to set up a big twist like I mentioned above, with the NK being a form of protection from the Lord of Light that backfired on the Children of the Forest that created him.

Also please feel free to ignore my commentary as uninformed gibberish. I just like a good twist, and I'm not fully up on all the lore of the novel. Sometimes I miss things or forget them. I'm also not a smart man.

Did you forget about all the stuff in King's Landing with the High Sparrow in Seasons 5 and 6?

[Jeff V]

I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books.

Yes, such as mid story. How did the last book end again? Exactly like that.

Are you saying we have already seen the last of the books?

Things that have happened since the last book came out:

The Trump presidency
The Obama presidency (both terms)
I had a job. I lost the job and spent 15 months out of work. I celebrated 9th anniversary at subsequent job
I spent a year in casual correspondence with someone overseas. Things got serious. Met, got married, celebrating 8th anniversary this week.
Moved 3 times.
Had 2 kids.
Read approximately 750 books, none of which were the next Song of Ice and Fire book.

And I still recall many predicting he will not survive to see book 6 to the end, and he was 11 years younger when that prediction was being made! You might also recall that in the forward to ADWD, he said that because of the volume of characters, some already-written story lines were consigned to the 6th book since it was getting way too large. I was under the impression that book six was substantially finished when 5 was published.

A Dance with Dragons was no masterpiece as it is. If ever we see another volume, I would not be surprised if it's nothing more than a novelized version of the show script. He's 70 years old right now and not exactly a model specimen of someone inclined to ultra-longevity.

I'd love to see the series finished and hopes he bequeaths it to a worthy, Sanderson-like successor. But others have mentioned that Martin said this would not happen. So at this point, I do not have any hopes the series will be completed, or if it is, in a materially different format than the show.

[pr0ner]

The 5th book came out in July 2011, which is not quite 8 years ago, so I don't know how you could have celebrated your 9th anniversary at your current job since the last book came out, Jeff.

[Jaymann]

If GRRM wanted to take the easy way out, he could just officially endorse the TV ending and stop writing. Since he won't endorse another writer finishing the series, we may be left with fan fiction.

[Hyena]

Wondering if the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because they must be there to...(wait for it, let me finish)

LET THE NIGHT KING THROUGH.

What if the NK knows that only an army of the dead can defeat Circe and the Lannister army and her hired mercs? Spitballing here, but what if Bran the Builder (or whomever made the NK) knew there would be a war to end all wars and decided they need be prepared to fight it? It would explain the Stark motto: "Winter is coming" can either be a warning to the other houses of the impending cold season, or a threat to all other houses that "We're coming, and the cold is coming with us." What if Bran the Builder built the wall from the NORTH side of it to protect himself (the NK) from incursions from the Southern kingdoms? How else would he have the ice magic to do it unless he was the NK? I dont remember if it ever started HOW he built the wall?

Hell, what if "Ice and Fire" refers to Bran the Builder (ice magic) vs. the Targaryans (dragonfire)?

At this point I'm just throwing shit on the wall and seeing what will stick.

I don't think there's anything apocalyptic about the Lannisters vs Starks contest that would have needed thousands of years of prophetic preparation.

If Martin is clear on anything, it's that politics is a dirty grubby violent business and that it has always been so. There have been dozens of wars on the scale of this one, and I don't expect that we're heading for a lasting peace in Westeros even after the dead are defeated and a relatively good ruler gets the throne for a while.

My guess is that Martin has been writing towards (but might never finish) a truly apocalyptic contest involving the gods and their adherents. Recent books have made more of the Lord of Light and the Drowned God and whatever god-level evil force lies *behind* the White Walkers, for example, but this is precisely the stuff the show hasn't had time for.

True, but this is the show I'm talking about, not the books. There are HUGE chunks of the story missing from the books, including the story of the gods, the prophecy of the risen warrior (can't remember the name), Lady Stoneheart, etc. I claimed earlier that I believe the series will end differently than the books. The Lord of Light is pretty much the only one that has been mentioned, and it's mostly been just to show how "he" has ressurection powers (and to add a "magical" touch to the show). The Drowned One has only been mentioned in passing just a few times IIRC, and they aren't going to bring in something like that with four episodes left. I can see them setting up a Lord of Light showdown with the Night King, but even still, as you mentioned, this show is about the people embroiled in politics, not a grand clash between the gods. That seems secondary to the stories we've watched unfold in the show.

At the risk of getting flamed (pun intended), I'm not even 100% the Lord of Light is the "good guy" in all this. Think of all the blood magic and death that was done in his name through the Red Woman: the sacrificing of Stannis' daughter, shadow baby assassins, wrong prophecies etc. I wouldn't be surprised to find they are trying to set up a big twist like I mentioned above, with the NK being a form of protection from the Lord of Light that backfired on the Children of the Forest that created him.

Also please feel free to ignore my commentary as uninformed gibberish. I just like a good twist, and I'm not fully up on all the lore of the novel. Sometimes I miss things or forget them. I'm also not a smart man.

Did you forget about all the stuff in King's Landing with the High Sparrow in Seasons 5 and 6?

Yes. Yes I did. But even then, that was purely human-driven rather than a display of divine power. Some have made it sound like there will be a showdown between god-like forces behind the scenes. The Sparrow situation (in the show) was merely humans making another grab for power, just in a different fashion. It's not like they were pacifists magically curing the sick, hosting sit-ins and love-fests. They demanded subservience, or they would beat you to death.

[pr0ner]

There weren't really any "displays of divine power" in the books, either.

[Jeff V]

The 5th book came out in July 2011, which is not quite 8 years ago, so I don't know how you could have celebrated your 9th anniversary at your current job since the last book came out, Jeff.

Through the miracles of temp-to-perm.

[El Guapo]

If GRRM wanted to take the easy way out, he could just officially endorse the TV ending and stop writing. Since he won't endorse another writer finishing the series, we may be left with fan fiction.

The last two books are going to be released eventually. If GRRM died tomorrow, the publisher would hire someone to finish the series using the show and GRRM outlines.

[wonderpug]

If GRRM wanted to take the easy way out, he could just officially endorse the TV ending and stop writing. Since he won't endorse another writer finishing the series, we may be left with fan fiction.

The last two books are going to be released eventually. If GRRM died tomorrow, the publisher would hire someone to finish the series using the show and GRRM outlines.

Hasn't he been on record saying he wouldn't let anyone else finish the series, even after he died?

[Hyena]

There weren't really any "displays of divine power" in the books, either.

That was kinda my entire point. Holman said that GRRM was building up and writing more and more about god-like beings and powers, and I disagreed with him.

[Holman]

There weren't really any "displays of divine power" in the books, either.

That was kinda my entire point. Holman said that GRRM was building up and writing more and more about god-like beings and powers, and I disagreed with him.

I didn't mean that the gods would appear as characters, but that their influence (or at least the influence of their human agents) would loom larger towards the climax.

There are important Red Priests in the books beyond the show's Red Woman, and they appear to be able to call on otherwordly power beyond the Septons' religious rhetoric. Likewise, IIRC, the book's Euron talks of experience that suggests the Drowned God is real. The backstory material (The World of Ice and Fire, etc) also seems to suggest that the Old Gods are real, and of course Bran's and the Three-Eyed-Raven's powers are real rather than mythic.

My point was that I think Martin is heading towards a supernatural rather than a merely military and political climax. Through Bran, the show might be able to fit some of this in, but there's not a lot of time left for it except as a means if defeating the Night King.

I'm predicating my show/book comparison on the idea that Martin has in mind a larger ultimate enemy than just the Night King himself.

(I could be wrong and often am so.)

[gameoverman]

I agree that it has to be an ending with the supernatural as the foundation. This show has been establishing that since episode one. Undead creatures, shadow magic, dragons, three eyed ravens, warging...it ain't ending with two normal guys having a sword fight. It's going to be a question of whose hocus pocus can out pocus the other guy's hocus pocus.

I don't think the book series will be finished by Martin. Why would he bother now? It would be a massive amount of work and for what? I think he's pretending to be working on the books until either health problems and/or death give him an excuse to officially quit, or interest dies down enough that people stop asking him about the books. Meanwhile, he goes about his life doing whatever it is that interests him besides finishing what probably feels to him like an endless slog.

[Punisher]

I’m sure I missed it, but how does the night kings powers work? Do they activate by touch or is it within a certain radius? This would be what makes this idea plausible or not.

Spoiler:

Answer

This is a partial answer... So yes, its a radius, but is there an outer limit and if so, what is it? It's obviously not a world wide ability or he'd have already resurrected everyone.

[Punisher]

The 5th book came out in July 2011, which is not quite 8 years ago, so I don't know how you could have celebrated your 9th anniversary at your current job since the last book came out, Jeff.

Perhaps he is using the series version of time and how it works?

[Punisher]

If GRRM wanted to take the easy way out, he could just officially endorse the TV ending and stop writing. Since he won't endorse another writer finishing the series, we may be left with fan fiction.

The last two books are going to be released eventually. If GRRM died tomorrow, the publisher would hire someone to finish the series using the show and GRRM outlines.

Hasn't he been on record saying he wouldn't let anyone else finish the series, even after he died?

So .. mystery solved.. GRRM IS the Night King which is how he would prevent it after he died.

[Malificent]

I’m sure I missed it, but how does the night kings powers work? Do they activate by touch or is it within a certain radius? This would be what makes this idea plausible or not.

Spoiler:

Answer

This is a partial answer... So yes, its a radius, but is there an outer limit and if so, what is it? It's obviously not a world wide ability or he'd have already resurrected everyone.

I thought he could only raise those killed by the White Walkers.