The Biden Presidency Thread

[malchior]

Never has anything like this happened here. It has happened elsewhere and it informs us of the danger we face.

At the risk of derailing:

One awful aspect of life post-Roe is how many medical providers, non-profits and even liberal politicians in “blue” states are caving. They’re willingly accepting the most extreme aspect of any one state’s law. They’re unwilling to say “make me” or to resist—they’re just caving.

My point here is there is a leadership vacuum and for whatever reason (on various issues) in places where Democrats are politically in control, they're still somehow bowing to external pressures and going with what the vocal minority wants. Is that entirely Biden's fault? I don't know, but when states and locals are flailing on larger issues, I do think elements of the administration can be rightfully blamed.

I don't think this is a derail. It's an important aspect of what I'm getting at. I mean I quibble with this concept that anyone is "caving". This is exactly how radical change works. The Supreme Court shocked the system. Intentionally to foster radical, extreme, unpopular change that they couldn't achieve through normal legislative process.

We are a nation where a woman's right to make decisions about her own body was eviscerated in a moment. But other terrible notions were embraced as well. We went from a nation that protected victims of heinous crimes such as rape and incest. Imperfectly at times but it was something that was a baseline guiding principle. That principle is but ashes now.

Now we've embraced an alternative extremist philosophy in parts of this country that protects the outcome of great evils and tramples on the victim's rights. Again at a pen's stroke. A raped 10-year old is told that they most bear their rapist's child and told it is simply a balancing test against the rights of a cluster of cells. It is disgusting and Evil. Big "E" type evil. We went from being the paragon of civil rights to a nation that at best is now riddled with pockets that are medieval. And in reality closer to the rights of a caveman. The strongest male gets to fight to choose the mother of his child. Let that sink in for a moment. It's grotesque. But that the state of this shit hole blight of a country in 2022.

In the face of all that damage some expected Doctor's to "resist"? What does resistance even mean in the face of 'legal' change? They've had no guidance for this moment. And that was part of the point. The system was intentionally thrown into disarray to seize control. And in that disarray doctor's have to parse state and federal law to understand what to do. While the system is still deeply unstable and undergoing radical change. They have no idea what is going to be enforced on them as practitioners. So I find it entirely unsurprising they've reacted this way. This is exactly how authoritarian takeovers work.

[Unagi]

This is all being handed over to the states.
For the Feds to play a role they would now be taking away state rights. That’s at least how I see the GOP playbook being applied here.

Women, minorities, LGBQT, etc. all need to push back locally or I don’t really see anything helping for a long time. And where they don’t have the will of the numbers, they will indeed suffer greatly.

[malchior]

This is all being handed over to the states.
For the Feds to play a role they would now be taking away state rights. That’s at least how I see the GOP playbook being applied here.

Ugh. Please don't fall for this story. This is what some in the GOP are saying at any particular moment to justify this. It isn't however what their actual end goals are. They will absolutely push to have all they are doing done at a national level. At least as a way to motivate their base. They are even talking about it out loud in small bursts right now. One of their arguments for winning the midterm is to codify a national abortion ban. Let's be clear they are all about saying/doing whatever they need to do at the moment to capture more power. When they get that power they will wield it increasingly indiscriminately.

[Unagi]

Well I certainly don’t mean to imply that the federal level isn’t clearly being attacked / dismantled and needs to be addressed.

I’m saying massive immediate pushback at the local level in Red states has never been more critically important.

Me, marching in Chicago, will be symbolic. Important , but not anywhere near as much as anything being done in Kentucky or Texas. Or Michigan or Georgia.

Our problems will not be solved by the next President, IMO

[Drazzil]

Well I certainly don’t mean to imply that the federal level isn’t clearly being attacked / dismantled and needs to be addressed.

I’m saying massive immediate pushback at the local level in Red states has never been more critically important.

Me, marching in Chicago, will be symbolic. Important , but not anywhere near as much as anything being done in Kentucky or Texas. Or Michigan or Georgia.

Our problems will not be solved by the next President, IMO

And this is why our country is doomed. We need change now. Not in ten years, not in two generations. Now.

We need a president willing to smash, break and destroy norms, skirt or shred laws and really put the fear of dog into the establishment, to brush it aside like so much cobweb. We need Bizarro Lefty Trump. Right now Americans are getting punched in the face over and over again. Checks and balances are dead. We need someone who will take it to the other side, rules, regulations, laws and decorum be damned. FDR did a lot of this. Used threat of prosecution in the business plot to shut up the bankers, used threats against the supreme court to get them to STFU. Actually *fought* for the American people.

That being said if someone like that came even close to getting into power the two sides of the same coin of establishment would become bipartisan in their effort to smash BLT.

[Unagi]

Bizzaro Lefty Trump is carrying a lot weight in your plan for someone that doesn’t exist.

Or is maybe a Muslim woman in Michigan.

[Drazzil]

Bizzaro Lefty Trump is carrying a lot weight in your plan for someone that doesn’t exist.

Or is maybe a Muslim woman in Michigan.

Its too bad we cant will them into existence. And I would totally vote for a Muslim woman in Michigan. Sheeyit. I wouldn't just vote for that, I'd date her.

[RunningMn9]

In this country’s past, we have fought an active civil war where we killed hundreds of thousands of each other. We had slavery. We had to endure two world wars. We had to endure the violent upheaval that accompanied resistance to the civil rights movement.

What we are going through now is not worse than any of those things. If you think it is, it’s because those things are abstract concepts to you, and these things affect you directly.

Will it get worse? Maybe. And it may enter territory that is as bad or worse. It’s possible that we are about to head into a post-democracy phase of this nation’s history. And that might get us into the conversation.

Maybe. The Civil War is gonna be tough to stop, short of another Civil War.

[Unagi]

My point is just that if you put the person that maybe the GOP would reject the most you would find that the Lefty Libs don’t all fall in-line behind that person the way Trumpism needs to work.

I honestly don’t know what you picture when you just say ‘bizaro left trump’. Because if that includes insane personality disorders and hate, etc etc, The lefty lib world just isn’t that world. The best we got are the young ‘in your face’ democrats that have no shame in saying what they want.

[Drazzil]

My point is just that if you put the person that maybe the GOP would reject the most you would find that the Lefty Libs don’t all fall in-line behind that person the way Trumpism needs to work.

I honestly don’t know what you picture when you just say ‘bizaro left trump’. Because if that includes insane personality disorders and hate, etc etc, The lefty lib world just isn’t that world. The best we got are the young ‘in your face’ democrats that have no shame in saying what they want.

Maybe I need to be the change I want to see in the world....

[Blackhawk]

What we are going through now is not worse than any of those things.

It's not worse, but it's got worse potential than any except, possibly, the days leading up to the Civil War. The disaster here isn't anger or a lack of humanity, it's a calculated plan to remove the ability to redress those things. And once those mechanisms are removed (and we're standing now on the knife's edge of that removal), it isn't just a matter of changing peoples' minds any more. Look at protests in China to see just how effective changing minds is once the safeties on the government is removed.

[Blackhawk]

Never has anything like this happened here. It has happened elsewhere and it informs us of the danger we face.

At the risk of derailing:

One awful aspect of life post-Roe is how many medical providers, non-profits and even liberal politicians in “blue” states are caving. They’re willingly accepting the most extreme aspect of any one state’s law. They’re unwilling to say “make me” or to resist—they’re just caving.

My point here is there is a leadership vacuum and for whatever reason (on various issues) in places where Democrats are politically in control, they're still somehow bowing to external pressures and going with what the vocal minority wants. Is that entirely Biden's fault? I don't know, but when states and locals are flailing on larger issues, I do think elements of the administration can be rightfully blamed.

I don't know if they're caving so much as they're falling back and regrouping. Not caving may just end up being the thing that gives the GOP the tools and excuses they need for even harder crackdowns. They need to act with forethought, not just defiance.

[Drazzil]

Never has anything like this happened here. It has happened elsewhere and it informs us of the danger we face.

At the risk of derailing:

One awful aspect of life post-Roe is how many medical providers, non-profits and even liberal politicians in “blue” states are caving. They’re willingly accepting the most extreme aspect of any one state’s law. They’re unwilling to say “make me” or to resist—they’re just caving.

My point here is there is a leadership vacuum and for whatever reason (on various issues) in places where Democrats are politically in control, they're still somehow bowing to external pressures and going with what the vocal minority wants. Is that entirely Biden's fault? I don't know, but when states and locals are flailing on larger issues, I do think elements of the administration can be rightfully blamed.

I don't know if they're caving so much as they're falling back and regrouping. Not caving may just end up being the thing that gives the GOP the tools and excuses they need for even harder crackdowns. They need to act with forethought, not just defiance.

Forethought? Have you seen the Democratic party exercise any of that lately? How bout our population? Caving infinitely just suppresses our side and gives their side the go ahead to do whatever they want.

[Unagi]

I can’t tell.
Are you shunning forethought by pointing out that the democrats failed us by not having any of it. Or is that in support of it?

[Drazzil]

I can’t tell.
Are you shunning forethought by pointing out that the democrats failed us by not having any of it. Or is that in support of it?

Im not shunning forethought. Only pointing out that it's not coming from anyone who we voted and organized for. Also, it seems that if we organize within the system we lose. We're giving the other side a chance to kick us in the face if we wring our hands and keep doing what we have been. Now what?

[Blackhawk]

I'm talking about doctors, non-profits, even people from targeted groups, not just politicians.

[Smoove_B]

Here you go Drazzil - I'm posting this here because it includes stuff on Biden.

Will democracy survive?:

America has the chance to skip the dictator stage and just do what Chile did to get rid of Pinochet.

The question is, will America do it?

...

If enough people vote Democratic, it will happen.

We have a chance to do it now when it’s easier than getting out from under a dictator.

...

At this point, I think the “nothing will change” and “why bother voting?” come from people who fall into groups:

Group 1: They don’t really understand how government works and they don’t know much history. They think, “I’m just one person.” They feel helpless and frustrated.

Group 2: They want the Republicans to win so they want to persuade you not to vote. Some are burn-it-down revolutionaries who think that if the Democratic party crashes and burns, a better party can replace it.

Interesting, but what then?

Some think that the Democrats are not “strong” enough or “tough” enough. (Notice the words: They want a strongman.)

I’m afraid that Trump not only taught Republicans how to do it, thereby making a DeSantis possible, he also gave everyone a taste for “tough rhetoric” and “hard ball tactics” and “don’t compromise with the other side whatsoever” kind of thinking. In other words, he has taught people the appeal of a strongman.

The Democratic Party is the rule of law and due process party. Again from Ziblatt and Levitisky’s How Democracies Die, Democracy is slow grinding work.

Authoritarianism is quick and satisfying (if the authoritarian does what you want). He dispenses with rules and due process and GETS THINGS DONE NOW.

I think that's an important observation. If you want something quick, democracy isn't the answer. Regarding Biden:

A lot of people have to come together. That takes work and compromise. (People hate compromise. They think it’s WEAK).

Every time Biden gets something through compromise I get hit by a barrage of people telling me he’s weak.

He’s not weak. He compromised, which is how you build a large enough coalition to overcome a fascist uprising.

So going back to the question that started it:

Q: Will democracy survive in America?

A: I don’t know. Do people LIKE democracy?

Do they LIKE rule of law and due process (which are slow and cumbersome and are specifically designed so that you can’t solve political problems by tossing everyone you think is dangerous in jail) Are they willing to compromise to build coalitions? Obama annoyed a lot of people when he warned against purism.

Democracy (rule by the people) means that the people have to do the work.

That is literally what it means. It’s a lot of work. Do people want to do the work, or do they want to sit back and demand that someone else DO SOMETHING.

And:

People realize before November that the only chance of checking the rise in right-wing extremism (and the only to check an off-the-deep-end Supreme Court) is to elect a lot of Democrats, so voters turn out in large numbers. If that happens, we’ll get a few more Senators, including 2 more willing to end the filibuster. Congress has the authority to add Supreme Court justices. Congress can add D.C as a state (giving 2 more Senators.) The Constitution gives Congress the authority to regulate elections.

See where I’m going with this?

Question: Can American democracy be saved?

Answer: That depends on whether enough Americans want to save it and are willing to come out to vote in November.

I'm a little mixed on it overall, mainly because there seems to be a suggestion that compromise is necessary. I do not think we should be compromising with the GOP right now - not as long as they are allowing fascists, xenophobes, racists, etc... to wear their uniform. But from a practical standpoint *in theory* getting enough votes to get more people in Congress should work - assuming the system currently allows for that to happen. If the voting / certification process is now compromised, then yeah, we're probably done.

[Drazzil]

Here you go Drazzil - I'm posting this here because it includes stuff on Biden.

Will democracy survive?:

America has the chance to skip the dictator stage and just do what Chile did to get rid of Pinochet.

The question is, will America do it?

...

If enough people vote Democratic, it will happen.

We have a chance to do it now when it’s easier than getting out from under a dictator.

...

At this point, I think the “nothing will change” and “why bother voting?” come from people who fall into groups:

Group 1: They don’t really understand how government works and they don’t know much history. They think, “I’m just one person.” They feel helpless and frustrated.

Group 2: They want the Republicans to win so they want to persuade you not to vote. Some are burn-it-down revolutionaries who think that if the Democratic party crashes and burns, a better party can replace it.

Interesting, but what then?

Some think that the Democrats are not “strong” enough or “tough” enough. (Notice the words: They want a strongman.)

I’m afraid that Trump not only taught Republicans how to do it, thereby making a DeSantis possible, he also gave everyone a taste for “tough rhetoric” and “hard ball tactics” and “don’t compromise with the other side whatsoever” kind of thinking. In other words, he has taught people the appeal of a strongman.

The Democratic Party is the rule of law and due process party. Again from Ziblatt and Levitisky’s How Democracies Die, Democracy is slow grinding work.

Authoritarianism is quick and satisfying (if the authoritarian does what you want). He dispenses with rules and due process and GETS THINGS DONE NOW.

I think that's an important observation. If you want something quick, democracy isn't the answer. Regarding Biden:

A lot of people have to come together. That takes work and compromise. (People hate compromise. They think it’s WEAK).

Every time Biden gets something through compromise I get hit by a barrage of people telling me he’s weak.

He’s not weak. He compromised, which is how you build a large enough coalition to overcome a fascist uprising.

So going back to the question that started it:

Q: Will democracy survive in America?

A: I don’t know. Do people LIKE democracy?

Do they LIKE rule of law and due process (which are slow and cumbersome and are specifically designed so that you can’t solve political problems by tossing everyone you think is dangerous in jail) Are they willing to compromise to build coalitions? Obama annoyed a lot of people when he warned against purism.

Democracy (rule by the people) means that the people have to do the work.

That is literally what it means. It’s a lot of work. Do people want to do the work, or do they want to sit back and demand that someone else DO SOMETHING.

And:

People realize before November that the only chance of checking the rise in right-wing extremism (and the only to check an off-the-deep-end Supreme Court) is to elect a lot of Democrats, so voters turn out in large numbers. If that happens, we’ll get a few more Senators, including 2 more willing to end the filibuster. Congress has the authority to add Supreme Court justices. Congress can add D.C as a state (giving 2 more Senators.) The Constitution gives Congress the authority to regulate elections.

See where I’m going with this?

Question: Can American democracy be saved?

Answer: That depends on whether enough Americans want to save it and are willing to come out to vote in November.

I'm a little mixed on it overall, mainly because there seems to be a suggestion that compromise is necessary. I do not think we should be compromising with the GOP right now - not as long as they are allowing fascists, xenophobes, racists, etc... to wear their uniform. But from a practical standpoint *in theory* getting enough votes to get more people in Congress should work - assuming the system currently allows for that to happen. If the voting / certification process is now compromised, then yeah, we're probably done.

I could refute this point by point. Its like you guys keep saying the same thing over and over.

"organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote" "organize and vote"

Spoilered for long rant and rehash of how I came to this conclusion:

Spoiler:

And yet the reason we got here in the first place is because we organized and voted. I organized and voted in 2008 and got.... Barack Obama, Who betrayed the left so fast my head spun. Changed small things around the margins and little else.

I organized and voted for Bernie in 2016 and I got... Well. Fucked by the Democratic party. All because Hillary "If you don't like what Obama did regarding the financial system don't vote for me" Clinton couldn't read the room.

I organized and voted for Bernie in 2020. I got Joe "Nothing will change" Biden. By a razor thin margin, Who twiddled his thumbs and wasted a shitload of air on "bipartisanship" and "reaching out to the other side" oh and by telling the people organized, fought (sometimes literally) bled and put him in office... And get this... managed to do it past ALL the jerrymandering and closing the poll places and EVERYTHING. You know what he told them? "Sit down, shut up and wait"

He then proceeded to break just about every watery small potatoes promise he *DID* make! Every single thing we asked him to do, EVERY SINGLE THING he failed to deliver, instead making mealy mouthed excuses like "vote for more democrats, we cant do this cause... filibuster blah blah blah. Oh I'm not doing this through executive order..." Then urged calm and order after the three illegitimate justices murdered Roe right in front of us. Hell the whole Democratic leadership sung "God bless America" over the protest!!

Annnnnnd now the democrats will be back, telling the poorest people in the most jerrymandered swing states, after all the broken promises, all the missed opportunities, all the telling of the voters that the "process" was more important then the people, they're telling those people that they need to work TEN TIMES AS HARD to elect the SAME PEOPLE into office?

Most people are gonna look at everything and say "for what?" and "Why bother?" ESPECIALLY in the battleground states! Because the dirty little secret of this "democracy" is the same as capitalism as a whole. Lower and working class people are expected to show up, through flabbergasting odds, WORK FOR NOTHING and then go home, sit down and shut up!!!

You know I keep getting pissed on for voting Trump. That's okay. You know why I keep coming back and telling you guys all this? Because I want to give you a glimpse of what the average lower class voter may feel like, if they vote at all. I have the unique ability to come back and go in circles with you guys and gals because I have section 8, and live in tax credit housing, so I break even, I don't have kids and I don't care about the dogpiles or being dismissed over and over again so I have the time to keep poking holes in your internet echo chamber and to tell you how it really is. Looonnnng after I die at the hands of what's coming, maybe you will think of that one "internet troll" who said over and over again what we didn't want to hear. He was right.

Annnnd the short version of this is that the Democratic party keeps expecting the most out of the people with the least to give. "Democracy" in this country is a lot like it's "capitalism"

The Democrats expect the working class people in the swing states to do more and more, despite a LOOOOOONG string of broken promises and being told to "sit down and shut up and wait for the process" You don't think that people who organized for him the last time don't see how we've been treated and downplayed and disregarded like a used condom when you finish fucking us? HA!

The dirty truth of it is things keep getting worse no matter what, only maybe the established people get to go on being established and comfortable for a little while longer. You remember and "see" us every two years and promise that "this time things will be different" when you can even be bothered to remember to voice the lie. Hell the people we voted for couldn't even introduce some laws to make it easier to vote for them the next time!

So whatever happens later this year, and in 2024, don't use me as your internet whipping boy. I'll vote whoever you want me to. I won't be organizing this year, or in two. I learned my lesson. Ill be busy working overtime and taking a second job and amassing wealth to get out of this rotten country.

[LawBeefaroni]

Never has anything like this happened here. It has happened elsewhere and it informs us of the danger we face.

At the risk of derailing:

One awful aspect of life post-Roe is how many medical providers, non-profits and even liberal politicians in “blue” states are caving. They’re willingly accepting the most extreme aspect of any one state’s law. They’re unwilling to say “make me” or to resist—they’re just caving.

My point here is there is a leadership vacuum and for whatever reason (on various issues) in places where Democrats are politically in control, they're still somehow bowing to external pressures and going with what the vocal minority wants. Is that entirely Biden's fault? I don't know, but when states and locals are flailing on larger issues, I do think elements of the administration can be rightfully blamed.

It's a liability thing. Do you want to provide care or spend all your time/money defending against red state bullshit. Especially when they have the courts.

But I wouldn't say everyone is caving. Some systems have a war chest for this kind of shit. Ask me how I know..

[Pyperkub]

This does strike very close to true tho...

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/we- ... -something

[Alefroth]

I'm a little mixed on it overall, mainly because there seems to be a suggestion that compromise is necessary. I do not think we should be compromising with the GOP right now - not as long as they are allowing fascists, xenophobes, racists, etc... to wear their uniform.

I don't think it's possible to compromise with the GOP right now. They know they don't need to, for one.

[Alefroth]

Its like you guys keep saying the same thing over and over.

[Drazzil]

Its like you guys keep saying the same thing over and over.

Yeah it is funny. I keep saying the same thing, you guys say the same thing, round and round we go. God. I've wasted all day here, despite the fact that I know I'm screaming into the hurricane. Yes. I know that it's important that we at least TRY to use legal democratic methods, but that alone isn't going to fix things. We need to make our leaders accountable, while still voting and campaigning and organizing for them, which ensures that they won't be accountable.

It's a no win situation. It's really too late.

[Smoove_B]

I don't think it's possible to compromise with the GOP right now. They know they don't need to, for one.

Well, the example that just came up was Biden compromising with McConnell over the judge appointments in KY. Are there other instances where individual members of the GOP can act in good faith and pull democracy out of this nosedive? I honestly don't know.

[Drazzil]

I don't think it's possible to compromise with the GOP right now. They know they don't need to, for one.

Well, the example that just came up was Biden compromising with McConnell over the judge appointments in KY. Are there other instances where individual members of the GOP can act in good faith and pull democracy out of this nosedive? I honestly don't know.

Which IMO was a stupid, stupid thing to do. Demoralized the base he's gonna need badly in a scant five months. Adds more evidence in the "sold us all out" bracket though.

[Kraken]

I don't think it's possible to compromise with the GOP right now. They know they don't need to, for one.

Well, the example that just came up was Biden compromising with McConnell over the judge appointments in KY. Are there other instances where individual members of the GOP can act in good faith and pull democracy out of this nosedive? I honestly don't know.

Liz Cheney is likely to lose her job because of her dedication to the Constitution, and vows to continue working against MAGAts whether she keeps that platform or not. So that's one, at least.

It's a sign of how far we've fallen that I'm praising a Cheney.

[Blackhawk]

God. I've wasted all day here, despite the fact that I know I'm screaming into the hurricane.

You're right, yelling at all the people who have explained why your position isn't just wrong, it's insane is a waste of time.

You should stop doing that and try something more useful. Maybe make a flag pole spear and go storm something. I don't know what, maybe the Supreme Court Building, or a 7-11.

[Drazzil]

God. I've wasted all day here, despite the fact that I know I'm screaming into the hurricane.

You're right, yelling at all the people who have explained why your position isn't just wrong, it's insane is a waste of time.

You should stop doing that and try something more useful. Maybe make a flag pole spear and go storm something. I don't know what, maybe the Supreme Court Building, or a 7-11.

Its funny cause I think I've explained why the forum's ideas won't work. I think one side is denying the reality of where we are, and the feasibility of going forward. That said, it's a moot point. We have ONE future going forward. Arguing about whether the sun will rise doesn't make it any less inevitable. Good night OO! It makes me hopeful to have other robust viewpoints. Wrong viewpoints, but well thought out and reasons.

[Blackhawk]

That ego must have its own gravity well.

[Carpet_pissr]

FWIW Drazzil, I’m not going to sign up for your newsletter, but I do hear you.

1. Yes this is an echo chamber, but I think many, if not most of us that actively post here, realize that. What are ya gonna do? I hate this phrase with the fire of a thousand suns, but ‘it is what it is’.
2. I completely agree that the lower ‘societal’ power, lower income voters that the D’s have taken for granted (IMO) as part of their base are beyond fed up. ‘Ok, we’ll turn out ONE MORE TIME for Biden, but he better deliver!’

It’s one reason we see traditional D blocks shifting in recent years - blacks, Latinos, hell maybe single moms (no idea, just guessing). We’re bleeding the most economically vulnerable from the party bc they still feel shat upon at least economically, if not societally and culturally. I suspect they feel that their economic hardship has not improved quickly enough after years of voting for D’s, if at all.

Now it seems it’s just ‘show me the money’ no matter who they need to vote for to do it. And as the wealth gap in the country increases, this phenomenon expands.

I totally get the disillusionment, but I guess my answer is ‘look HARD at the alternative’. Maybe they have, and have and have chosen to go with the promise to be able to put food on their table consistently (whether or not that promise is a lie).

I think the economic inequality problem we have is a massive driver of our current political identity crisis(es?).

[YellowKing]

Totally agree, and is close to something I was going to post this morning.

Those of us in the forum tend to be up on the news and looking at the bigger picture. The vast majority of Americans care about one and only one thing - making ends meet. Everything else is irrelevant (at worst) or way down on the priority scale (at best). That's why while we're freaking out about the fall of US democracy, your neighbors are just grumbling about gas prices.

That's why I think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of mass revolution unless things got *significantly* worse. Orders of magnitude worse than they are now.

Mid-terms are going to hinge on the economy, not Roe vs Wade, not LGBTQ issues, not voter suppression. It's going to hinge on gas prices and inflation, period. The 2024 election is going to be the exact same, as is every other election.

Republicans understand this. That's why they know they can do whatever the hell they want with social issues, no matter how unpopular. All they have to do is keep corporations happy with tax breaks and occasionally throw some tax cuts to the populace, and everyone falls in line. People will put up with an absolutely *incredible* amount of shit, as long as it's not affecting their ability to support their family.

[Drazzil]

FWIW Drazzil, I’m not going to sign up for your newsletter, but I do hear you.

1. Yes this is an echo chamber, but I think many, if not most of us that actively post here, realize that. What are ya gonna do? I hate this phrase with the fire of a thousand suns, but ‘it is what it is’.
2. I completely agree that the lower ‘societal’ power, lower income voters that the D’s have taken for granted (IMO) as part of their base are beyond fed up. ‘Ok, we’ll turn out ONE MORE TIME for Biden, but he better deliver!’

It’s one reason we see traditional D blocks shifting in recent years - blacks, Latinos, hell maybe single moms (no idea, just guessing). We’re bleeding the most economically vulnerable from the party bc they still feel shat upon at least economically, if not societally and culturally. I suspect they feel that their economic hardship has not improved quickly enough after years of voting for D’s, if at all.

Now it seems it’s just ‘show me the money’ no matter who they need to vote for to do it. And as the wealth gap in the country increases, this phenomenon expands.

I totally get the disillusionment, but I guess my answer is ‘look HARD at the alternative’. Maybe they have, and have and have chosen to go with the promise to be able to put food on their table consistently (whether or not that promise is a lie).

I think the economic inequality problem we have is a massive driver of our current political identity crisis(es?).

I don't see a lot of people in swing states turning out to vote Republican. I see them not turning out to vote at all. Expected voters were turned off by Hillary Clinton, so they didn't turn out for her. They were turned off by Biden, so they didn't turn up to vote for him. The only thing that saved his bacon was a HISTORIC GOTV effort by a black woman in Georgia, who set up a coalition of marginalized people who literally made that knifes edge difference that got Biden into office. The same collection of civil rights leaders he demeaned and told to sit down and shut up and wait for it a week later.

Everything after that has just been one big old bag of insult and failure after another.

Think those people will show up later this year? My guess is nope. They wont turn out to vote for Republican candidates, they just wont turn out.

Now don't get me wrong, you will have a high profile GOTV effort, there will be celebrities' telling everyone to vote and big wheels in the Democrat party wearing kentai cloth and apologizing for whatever the latest absolute abject failure they could have avoided with even an ounce of empathy and common sense... You will even have Stacy Abrams show up and try and organize her cadre, bless her heart... But none of the people who the Democrats DESPERATELY need to show up will do so. They will have heard this song and dance before. And they will not be turning out to their badly jerrymandered polling places to attempt to vote.

[dbt1949]

What is GOTV?

[Drazzil]

What is GOTV?

Get Out The Vote

[Zarathud]

Letting the Republicans win, or hoping for a revolution, is not going to save democracy. Those on government assistance to make ends meet are not going to prosper under a Republican system with no economic ideas other than graft and selfishness. Not voting will make things worse, not better.

That’s not an echo chamber, it’s reality.

We’ll need more Stacey Abrams to hold back the tide. That’s the leadership you want, so find and back them.

[Alefroth]

The only thing that saved his bacon was a HISTORIC GOTV effort by a black woman in Georgia, who set up a coalition of marginalized people who literally made that knifes edge difference that got Biden into office.

How many violent acts did she commit? How many people did she lock up on RICO charges?

[Pyperkub]

Letting the Republicans win, or hoping for a revolution, is not going to save democracy. Those on government assistance to make ends meet are not going to prosper under a Republican system with no economic ideas other than graft and selfishness. Not voting will make things worse, not better.

That’s not an echo chamber, it’s reality.

We’ll need more Stacey Abrams to hold back the tide. That’s the leadership you want, so find and back them.

The other factor here is that all signs do point towards a far more effective police state than ever before.

[Blackhawk]

That's why I think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of mass revolution unless things got *significantly* worse. Orders of magnitude worse than they are now.

Most people are more than willing to fight against wrong when things really suck. The problem is that things haven't really sucked for most Americans in living memory. Most may realize that things will be 'bad' or 'worse', but they haven't experienced what that's like. Most people aren't going to be willing to give up everything to force change until the 'wrong' is an experience they've had, not a story they've been told.

[Drazzil]

The only thing that saved his bacon was a HISTORIC GOTV effort by a black woman in Georgia, who set up a coalition of marginalized people who literally made that knifes edge difference that got Biden into office.

How many violent acts did she commit? How many people did she lock up on RICO charges?

She was dealing with a completely different set of circumstances. Apples. Oranges.

[Alefroth]

The only thing that saved his bacon was a HISTORIC GOTV effort by a black woman in Georgia, who set up a coalition of marginalized people who literally made that knifes edge difference that got Biden into office.

How many violent acts did she commit? How many people did she lock up on RICO charges?

She was dealing with a completely different set of circumstances. Apples. Oranges.

The point is, you can affect the outcome without resorting to tyranny.