The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Kurth]

It's because freedom, right?

It might be. I've been asking experts in the field to confirm for me that back in the 1970s we just told parents to personal responsibility their way into making sure their kid didn't get the chickenpox or whooping cough - don't worry about what others are doing, just be a responsible adult and keep your own kid protected from disease...somehow. It clearly worked out!

You’re both missing the mark here. It’s not freedom that did in those diseases. They were dematrixed from the quantum entanglement.

[Max Peck]

It's because freedom, right?

It might be. I've been asking experts in the field to confirm for me that back in the 1970s we just told parents to personal responsibility their way into making sure their kid didn't get the chickenpox or whooping cough - don't worry about what others are doing, just be a responsible adult and keep your own kid protected from disease...somehow. It clearly worked out!

Actually, parents did personal responsibility their way into dealing with their kids' chances of getting chicken pox. That's why they had chicken pox parties, ensuring that their adult children wouldn't have to deal with chicken pox. Just shingles.

[Smoove_B]

This is why we can't have nice things

The #Suffolk County DA arrested two people including the owner of an Amityville pediatric office for selling fake Covid-19 vaccine cards. $220 for adults, $85 for children. Ledgers show they may have made $1.5 million dollars from this illegal scheme

Absolute horror.

[Max Peck]

[Smoove_B]

Going back to earlier comments about trying to address this in Congress with a committee or whatever nonsense they're proposing. This single graphic explains why we are so very fuct.

Fascinating patchwork after 2 years of changing policies, misinformation, vaccine rollout, and a rollercoaster of surges (NYT map)

We can't even get a unified national policy on wearing a mask but we're going to tackle bigger problems like climate change? Institutionalized racism? Gun violence? Masks!

[malchior]

[Grifman]

Freedumb:

‘I will die free’: Unvaccinated Burke County man denied kidney transplant by hospital

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/i-wil ... utType=amp

[malchior]

I don't know if this logic holds up

[malchior]

I don't know how to evaluate this concretely but it doesn't sound great.

[LawBeefaroni]

If Omicron doesn't impart Omicron immunity why are there waves? Wouldn't it just be constant re-infection, especially since the general attitude is, "I just had it so I'm safe..."?

Or do they mean lasting immunity?

[Defiant]

If Omicron doesn't impart Omicron immunity why are there waves? Wouldn't it just be constant re-infection, especially since the general attitude is, "I just had it so I'm safe..."?

Or do they mean lasting immunity?

Could, in theory, be changes in human activity (increased mask wearing, better masks, people staying home, etc) that makes it harder to spread, but my guess would be lasting immunity.

Edit: From the attached tweet mentioned: "Seasonal coronavirus protective immunity is short-lasting"

[gilraen]

If Omicron doesn't impart Omicron immunity why are there waves?

There's gotta be at least a little bit of an immunity, if only for a few weeks (even with a sub-variant that can evade antibodies - but the immune system is more than just antibodies).

[Smoove_B]

Yes, lasting immunity. The problem (the entire fucking problem) is that we won't do what's necessary to stop the virus from circulating, so at some point in March, everyone that wasn't vaccinated and had COVID-19 is at risk of getting it again *and* experiencing medical need. People that only received one or two shots? The same. People that have 3? Better, but still at risk because our immunity wanes after [X] number of months.

I wish I had a bullhorn big enough - we need to stop the virus from freely circulating (i.e. continuing the pandemic). It doesn't matter how many people go on Bill Maher to say they're "over it" or write an OpEd in the NYT about how we need to "move on" and "get back to normal", while the virus is freely circulating, we are all at risk.

Yes, some of us are in better shape than others, but adopting this "let 'er rip" philosophy is going to (is already?) bite us in the ass.

I know I'm shouting into the void here, but I'm getting hammered with, "unmask the kids" and "it's over - we made it through COVID" at every goddamn angle. Meanwhile, we're closing in on 900K deaths, probably later this week.

[Defiant]

Wouldn't having previous infection or two shots (probably) reduce the chances of the disease being serious for that individual and thus less likely to have to go to the hospital? (Also, hopefully soon, antivirals will be available that will also help to reduce the strain on the healthcare system).

My concern would be more that: 1) having it spread a lot/quickly could introduce new variants much more quickly than if it were contained or reduced and 2) vulnerable/immunocompromised people, who don't have any protection and are much more likely to get it if it isn't contained.

[LawBeefaroni]

I know I'm shouting into the void here, but I'm getting hammered with, "unmask the kids" and "it's over - we made it through COVID" at every goddamn angle. Meanwhile, we're closing in on 900K deaths, probably later this week.

You are up against some of the strongest biases in human nature. Normalcy bias, recency bias, and proximity bias.

People hesitate to evacuate a building that they are in burning down right now.

We want them to make sacrifices for a virus that may peak in a few weeks or that peaked a few weeks ago with no one they know currently hospitalized?

[Isgrimnur]

The fire alarm went off at work one day. We do regular tests, but had not been advised of any that day. I told my colleagues, "I'm going to lunch. See you afterwards if the office is still here."

[Skinypupy]

Utah just signed a new bill outlining the required process if a school wants to transition to virtual learning in case of a significant outbreak. It's...well...I'll just let you read it for yourself:

Under the new procedure, a school that reaches the state’s threshold for an outbreak will first have to appeal to the district’s local school board, asking that students be allowed to learn remotely.

The school board will then need to hold a public meeting to vote on whether to take that action. If the members vote in favor, they’ll next have to ask for permission from the state.

Approval to go online will require signoff from all four of the top-ranking leaders in Utah: the governor, the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate and the state superintendent. It’s unclear how quickly those leaders can or will respond to a request, but their decision will have to be unanimous.

Only then, if they’ve gotten the OK, will schools be able to tell families that they’re moving to online learning.

I especially love how they will unanimous approval from all four of the top state leaders - who are firmly in the "COVID is just the flu' camp - to make any shifts to virtual learning. It will likely cost lives by the time they get approval through this new convoluted process, but the peons are expendable, right?

And to top it off, the chickenshit governor still hasn't taken any questions from reporters about the bill. He's smokebombed and ran every time he's asked about it.

Idiots.

[Smoove_B]

How big is the public meeting that happens when a building is on fire? It must be weird to hear people voicing their opinions as to whether or not the fire department should be activated to respond in the middle of a fire.

[Blackhawk]

I have a big mental map of places I'd choose to live. The last two years have really helped me cross off states.

[Pyperkub]

I don't know how to evaluate this concretely but it doesn't sound great.

Peer review still pending apparently. Caveat emptor.

[El Guapo]

Utah just signed a new bill outlining the required process if a school wants to transition to virtual learning in case of a significant outbreak. It's...well...I'll just let you read it for yourself:

Under the new procedure, a school that reaches the state’s threshold for an outbreak will first have to appeal to the district’s local school board, asking that students be allowed to learn remotely.

The school board will then need to hold a public meeting to vote on whether to take that action. If the members vote in favor, they’ll next have to ask for permission from the state.

Approval to go online will require signoff from all four of the top-ranking leaders in Utah: the governor, the speaker of the House, the president of the Senate and the state superintendent. It’s unclear how quickly those leaders can or will respond to a request, but their decision will have to be unanimous.

Only then, if they’ve gotten the OK, will schools be able to tell families that they’re moving to online learning.

I especially love how they will unanimous approval from all four of the top state leaders - who are firmly in the "COVID is just the flu' camp - to make any shifts to virtual learning. It will likely cost lives by the time they get approval through this new convoluted process, but the peons are expendable, right?

And to top it off, the chickenshit governor still hasn't taken any questions from reporters about the bill. He's smokebombed and ran every time he's asked about it.

Idiots.

See, the brilliance of this from the perspective of the Utah political leaders is that by setting up a long cumbersome process that technically allows for remote learning but which is doomed from the start to fail, they'll never have to actually vote yes / no on any remote learning proposals because no school is going to waste their time with that bullshit. So that when they're asked at some point by a reporter or in a debate about remote learning, they'll say "look, we empowered school districts to request remote learning if they felt it is appropriate, and none of them have." Which will both sound reasonable and be complete bullshit.

[Smoove_B]

Exactly. We elect people (individuals or tiny groups) to make important decisions, and instead they have abdicated their responsibility to avoid being held accountable.

More and more, I understand now the story of Admiral Byng during the 7 Years War (one for Isg).

Spoiler:

‘in this country, it is good to kill an admiral from time to time, in order to encourage the others’

[Defiant]

I have a big mental map of places I'd choose to live. The last two years have really helped me cross off states.

It's helped me cross off planets.

[LawBeefaroni]

How big is the public meeting that happens when a building is on fire? It must be weird to hear people voicing their opinions as to whether or not the fire department should be activated to respond in the middle of a fire.

The point is that we are fighting strong innate human biases/failings, not just political and bureaucratic ones. And anti-vax/just flu/back to normal leaders are weaponizing those biases.

[Skinypupy]

Mom taught special education in Utah public schools for 45 years. After she "retired" a couple years ago, she was hired back on by the district (part time) as a coach/evaluator for new special ed teachers. She really just wanted use her decades of experience to mentor and teach the new crop of teachers, and her plan was to keep doing that for as long as they would have her. She's been increasingly frustrated with how poorly the administration has been dealing with COVID in schools and texted this morning to let me know that the passing of this bill was the final nail. She's decided to walk away at the end of this year, possibly sooner.

So not only are they struggling mightily with attracting new teachers due to low pay, huge class sizes (lots of big LDS families), and administrative bullshit, they're now also losing those with experience and a passion for education who would otherwise be sticking around to help.

Nice work!

[LawBeefaroni]

Nice work!

It may very well be exceptional work, if you consider that the endgame isn't better schools.



Sorry to hear your mom got caught up in all the nonsense. Hers is a valuable skill.

[Grifman]

Why do politicians think they are better than everyone else? I have more respect for someone who is opposed to masks than those that think masks should be required, just not for them:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/03/politics ... index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/20/politics ... index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/politics ... index.html

(The last one is old but it does to the point).

This is just more ammunition for anti-maskers and you give to them on a platter.

[LordMortis]

Why do politicians think they are better than everyone else? I have more respect for someone who is opposed to masks than those that think masks should be required, just not for them:

I know I don't give passes.

rules for thee but not me

... is something I've seen a lot from and passes given to the blue side over COVID hygiene. If Whitmer runs for re-election (and she will) she's going to make it very hard to not sit out the next bid for governor.

[malchior]

[Grifman]

Well, Smoove will be happy to know that it isn’t just the US that had given up on Covid:

[Pyperkub]

Why do politicians think they are better than everyone else? I have more respect for someone who is opposed to masks than those that think masks should be required, just not for them:

I know I don't give passes.

rules for thee but not me

... is something I've seen a lot from and passes given to the blue side over COVID hygiene. If Whitmer runs for re-election (and she will) she's going to make it very hard to not sit out the next bid for governor.

That's how an oligarchy works.

[El Guapo]

Well, Smoove will be happy to know that it isn’t just the US that had given up on Covid:

Let's cut to the Swedish public health officer for his reaction:

[malchior]

It's clipped down but really interesting segment from what I can see.

[Smoove_B]

Just as a data point - polls from a little over a week ago. Overwhelming support for masking and mandates and yet...only a handful of states are doing it. You want to know why people are mad at Democrats? When the people are telling you they want something (across the spectrum) and you ignore it in the interest of business and donors? It's no wonder the 2022 and 2024 elections are going to be a mess.

[Defiant]

Yeah, but there's other polling that doesn't show as strong support for it. For example:

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-instit ... 13122.pdf/

It shows 52% support for mask mandates and 43% for vaccine mandates and the numbers have been dropping (even as Omicron has been spiking). Also...

33. Do you tend to agree or disagree with the following statement: “It’s time we accept that Covid is here to stay and we just need to get on with our lives.”?
Jan. 2022
Agree 70%
Disagree 28%
(VOL) Depends 2%
(VOL) Don’t know 1%
(n) (794)

[Blackhawk]

Finally, Smoove can breathe a sigh of relief.

N.J. Governor to End School Mask Mandate in Move to ‘Normalcy’

[ImLawBoy]

The courts struck down the state-wide school mask mandate in IL, but there's still a lot of confusion. Not all of the school districts were involved in the suit, so does the order apply state-wide, or just to those districts in the suit? Fortunately for us it's moot in Chicago because the CPS mandate is in the labor agreement with the teachers' union, so knocking out the governor's authority to mandate masks doesn't impact that.

[Unagi]

Yeah. I’m pissed. And frustrated.
My daughter’s school district announced they were going optional as a result of the temporary ruling on the mandate in schools.

I want to write the superintendent a scathing email, but I know it’s pointless.

[Smoove_B]

Finally, Smoove can breathe a sigh of relief.

N.J. Governor to End School Mask Mandate in Move to ‘Normalcy’

What an absolute shitshow.

New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy will announce Monday a timeline to end the state's school mask mandate next month, his office told CNN. The policy will allow students and school officials to be unmasked as of March, two years after the pandemic gripped the country and the region.
Murphy first spoke to the New York Times about his planned announcement. The governor and officials are scheduled to hold a 1 p.m. coronavirus briefing Monday.

Thankfully the virus also follows a structured timeline, so using a calendar date to remove mask requirements makes total goddamn sense.

For reference, only 1 out of 3 kids in NJ (school age) has received at least a single COVID-19 vaccination.

I want to write the superintendent a scathing email, but I know it’s pointless.

I wrote a...polite email to my local superintendent back in December, urging him to consider a temporary school closure. He never wrote back.

[malchior]

Yeah, but there's other polling that doesn't show as strong support for it. For example:

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-instit ... 13122.pdf/

It shows 52% support for mask mandates and 43% for vaccine mandates and the numbers have been dropping (even as Omicron has been spiking). Also...

33. Do you tend to agree or disagree with the following statement: “It’s time we accept that Covid is here to stay and we just need to get on with our lives.”?
Jan. 2022
Agree 70%
Disagree 28%
(VOL) Depends 2%
(VOL) Don’t know 1%
(n) (794)

That's a very different question though and it's pretty loaded. You have no idea what the 70% think getting on with their lives means. A lot of people have no problem wearing a mask to the grocery store for instance by many polls.