The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:13 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:56 pm Pandemic's over. The moose out front should've told you.

LOL!

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:15 am

At least now the right will start acting like it's not over.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:42 am

I guess if you're resigned to everyone being infected, then you just label it "globally endemic" and call it a day.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:45 am

The damage that was done by uttering that single sentence is incalculable. This will likely be worse than messaging masks were no longer necessary in May of 2021. And the fact that he said it as the bivalent booster rollout is stumbling is astounding. Absolutely astounding. All for politics.

EDIT: Here's the full quote by the way:

President Joe Biden: The pandemic is over. We still have a problem with COVID. We're still doing a lotta work on it. It's-- but the pandemic is over. if you notice, no one's wearing masks. Everybody seems to be in pretty good shape. And so I think it's changing. And I think this is a perfect example of it.

I wonder why no one is wearing masks anymore? I guess we'll never know.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:58 am

Our public booster clinic opens today. About to run down and see if there are lines. There have always been lines the first week.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:07 am

About 35 people in line before it opened. Not like the first few but it's heartening.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:26 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:07 am About 35 people in line before it opened. Not like the first few but it's heartening.

Wait until the money runs out because Congress officially just heard "the pandemic is over" from the Commander in Chief.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:34 am

I really love when people talk about how compassionate Biden is. And then he does something like this which pushes the pain onto the poorest and most vulnerable. It's the American way.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:41 am

The thing is, he didn't just come up wit this on his own. Either he's so insulated from what's happening in the real world he doesn't see the reality -or- there are plenty of people adjacent to him that are telling him this because it serves larger interests. They've been signaling this for a long time with their actions and have probably been saying it in private behind closed doors, but for him to just come out and say it now? I doubt that was expected.

EDIT: Unless this is all 3D chess? By declaring it over the GOP will now insist it's actually raging out of control and they'll start vaccinating themselves because it's no longer necessary? I'm probably giving him too much credit here...

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:56 am

You're giving them too much credit, too. They may bloviate about it not being over but they sure won't do anything about it.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:12 am

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:56 am You're giving them too much credit, too. They may bloviate about it not being over but they sure won't do anything about it.

From the snippet of his Ohio stump, I heard the Putin's Puppet rail that more Americans died of COVID in 21 than did in 20 and he was cheered. It will go back from a hoax to the Chiy-nah virus.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:56 pm

I think he meant "THE idea of taking any precautions against the PANDEMIC IS OVER!"

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:09 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:45 am The damage that was done by uttering that single sentence is incalculable...

I strongly disagree. Folks who no longer cared about wearing masks or taking extra precautions against Covid will continue to do so, and those who feel the need to wear a mask or take other precautions will continue to do so.

Don't anyone take this personally, but I'm stunned that so many of you think that anyone cares what the President says on something like this. Only the Social Media drones and those who follow politics closely are going to even know he said it. And a lot of those folks aren't going to care either, IMHO.

So, in other words, I think everyone just needs to keep doing what they're doing. My personal plan is to get the vaccine each year, and to mask up when requested. Other than that, I stopped thinking about Covid long ago. (Turns out that dwelling on it was feeding my depression.

).

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 pm

Disagree with the disagree. There are a lot of people who will switch from masking to not. Not because they pay attention to what Biden says or put stake in it, but because they are constantly battling between what is safe, what is convenient, and what they want to do. Every bit of input that supports what they want vs. what is safe tends to get outsized weight.

There are hundreds (thousands?) of studies that say alcohol is bad but you get one that says red wine lowers BP or whatever and everyone starts pounding pinot.

And it makes things worse for anyone trying to uphold some sort of mask requirement. We're still mandated by state law to require masks. Now anyone who walks in without a mask can add "the President said so" to their list of reasons they don't have to wear one. Even though they do have to. Front office staff, security, nurses, greeters...they will all feel the proclamation to some degree.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:58 pm

Just got the PFE bivalent.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:03 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 pm And it makes things worse for anyone trying to uphold some sort of mask requirement. We're still mandated by state law to require masks. Now anyone who walks in without a mask can add "the President said so" to their list of reasons they don't have to wear one. Even though they do have to. Front office staff, security, nurses, greeters...they will all feel the proclamation to some degree.

Exactly; the messaging is undermining the effort locally, nationally and globally.

We know already that there's like ~30% of people that are never going to mask and another ~30% that will always mask - no matter what is required. His message last night emboldens that first 30% to maintain their behavior and confuses the ~40% in the middle that are strongly influenced by what they see other people doing and what is being communicated by businesses and government. That's where this "battle" was lost - positive peer pressure.

And as I added earlier, the usual suspects in Congress now have a way to easy dismantle any requests for additional Covid funding - relief, research, treatments, etc... -- because they now have Biden on tape saying, "The pandemic is over". It's a cluster f of epic proportions.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:34 pm

~30% that will always mask

Where are they? Not here. I'm lucky to see 4 out of hundreds masking when I go to any shopping venue. That number drops to me and my mother and her mask is loose when we go to a restaurant and to zero while we are eating. I've been to a few government buildings in recent months. I've been the only mask wearer in that setting. Masking is 100% in health care settings indoors and non existent at the entrance. At this point, it feels like masking is an extreme political statement, even if I don't actually believe that.

The high level of COVID concern that is OO, how many here are traveling? Viral spread is rooted in a mobile interactive populace. For everyone traveling, the pandemic is over. It's flu that hurts the elderly and immunocompromised disproportionately. It's endemic to the US and they're dealing with the risk their own way.

OtOH, the presidential declaration I can see easily changing funding, changing hygiene beyond masking (like increasing travel and lax response in schools and medical facility), and reducing vaccination rates.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:51 pm

Apollo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:09 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:45 am The damage that was done by uttering that single sentence is incalculable...
I strongly disagree. Folks who no longer cared about wearing masks or taking extra precautions against Covid will continue to do so, and those who feel the need to wear a mask or take other precautions will continue to do so.

Don't anyone take this personally, but I'm stunned that so many of you think that anyone cares what the President says on something like this. Only the Social Media drones and those who follow politics closely are going to even know he said it. And a lot of those folks aren't going to care either, IMHO.

So, in other words, I think everyone just needs to keep doing what they're doing. My personal plan is to get the vaccine each year, and to mask up when requested. Other than that, I stopped thinking about Covid long ago. (Turns out that dwelling on it was feeding my depression. ).

+1

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:52 pm

Yeah, there are definitely nowhere near 30% left who will always mask. Maybe 3%? If we're being generous?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:11 pm

According to this poll from last week, 37% of Americans wear a mask at least sometimes outside the home.

Findings:

Nearly two in three (65%) say there is a small risk or no risk in returning to their normal, pre-COVID life.

More Americans now say they already have returned to their normal, pre-COVID life (46%) than at any point during the pandemic.

The share of Americans that report occasionally or never wearing a mask outside their home has remained consistent since June (around 63%) but is significantly higher than during height of Omicron in mid-January 2022 (27%).
Roughly half report wearing masks at all times or sometimes when on an airplane (48%).
Fewer report wearing masks at all times or sometimes when on public transportation or in a rideshare (39%).
Finally, the lowest share of Americans report wearing masks at all times or sometimes in grocery stores (33%) and when walking into a restaurant to dine indoors (27%).

Nearly three in four Americans (73%) say pandemic-related shutdowns in early 2020 were necessary to save lives.
[..]
Roughly half (51%) say pandemic-related shutdowns in early 2020 caused unnecessary damage to the economy.

So at least 22% say lockdowns were necessary (to save lives), but caused unnecessary damage (on the economy)? Surely, if it the lockdown was necessary, surely the damage it caused was necessary, too?

Nearly two in three (65%) support federal, state, and local governments lifting all COVID-19 restrictions.
Despite the program ending earlier this month, 83% support the federal government mailing free at-home COVID-19 tests to anyone who wants one.
Similarly, 87% support the federal government providing COVID-19 vaccines and treatments for free, regardless of health insurance status.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm

I should probably update my mental models, yeah.

At one point early on it was 30/40/30. Now it's probably more like 40/55/5 -- the pressure has shifted the scales significantly. That's not to say we couldn't push back - I'm convinced there are people in the 55% bracket that would still mask if it was policy and they saw others doing it. And if it was done consistently and with enough positive acceptance, some of those 40%ers might ultimately give in to peer pressure.

I was at a school board meeting last week and getting ready to raise the possibility of creating Corsi-Rosenthal boxes for the classrooms. However, before I voiced my thoughts, the board President opened the meeting with comments regarding masks and how he was glad it wasn't going to be required because they were no longer necessary.

Feeling very diminished today; more so than usual. I need to regroup on the boxes and figure out how to at least try. I'm smart enough to know I can't actually do anything anymore, but I can still try.

/He-Man gif

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:17 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:34 pm
~30% that will always mask
Where are they? Not here. I'm lucky to see 4 out of hundreds masking when I go to any shopping venue. That number drops to me and my mother and her mask is loose when we go to a restaurant and to zero while we are eating. I've been to a few government buildings in recent months. I've been the only mask wearer in that setting. Masking is 100% in health care settings indoors and non existent at the entrance. At this point, it feels like masking is an extreme political statement, even if I don't actually believe that...

That's precisely the situation where I live. And when I do see someone wearing a mask, 90% of the time it is a black person. At first I thought that was because African Americans tend to be more liberal than white folks where I live. However, a black co-worker recently informed me that there is a popular conspiracy theory circulating that has made people scared to take the vaccine. I don't know if it's the same theory, but a significant number of white people here also believe in conspiracy theories about the vaccine, but refuse to mask anyway.

It is amazing how effective social media has been at spreading lies about Covid, the Vaccine, masks, etc.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:25 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm I should probably update my mental models, yeah.

I wasn't tryna be to depress you more. I'm sure the % who would mask in certain scenarios is well above 3%. But the stat mentioned was those who would 'always' mask. And that's a pitifully low number these days even in airports.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:37 pm

Apollo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:17 pm And when I do see someone wearing a mask, 90% of the time it is a black person.

I haven't thought about it much but those other three out of hundreds when I'm grocery shopping are usually middle aged black women. I don't really have 2 and 2 to put together on that and wouldn't even have thought about demographics if you hadn't said something.

Defiant wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:11 pm According to this poll from last week, 37% of Americans wear a mask at least sometimes outside the home.

Not here unless they count medical environments. Maybe that's how 37% see their sometimes or maybe I just live somewhere that doesn't care for reasons or no particular reason at all.

I'm ready to join them. I've been to a few outdoor markets over the summer and I don't mask there along with no one else masking and it's nice to faceless by having a face and to not breath the heat in and out. I'm so ready to go to a bar and sit and drink and sit and drink.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:25 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:14 pm I should probably update my mental models, yeah.
I wasn't tryna be to depress you more. I'm sure the % who would mask in certain scenarios is well above 3%. But the stat mentioned was those who would 'always' mask. And that's a pitifully low number these days even in airports.

I don't do public transportation. I'd hope it would be higher a few out of hundreds but I don't have faith. Literally the only places you'll see high levels of masking wearing is where it is required. The only place I interact with requirements is hospitals. Even back in April/May when I left my job, mask wearing became optional as I was checking out and I everyone but me and my replacement exercised that option. I only imagine when I left he stopped masking as well.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:50 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:37 pm ...I'm ready to join them. I've been to a few outdoor markets over the summer and I don't mask there along with no one else masking and it's nice to faceless by having a face and to not breath the heat in and out. I'm so ready to go to a bar and sit and drink and sit and drink...

Join us! I stopped wearing a mask (except where required) in May 2021 after becoming fully vaccinated and being worn out from wearing the mask outdoors in the heat. My reasoning? I was fully vaccinated at that point, and tired of bending over backwards to protect people who don't give a shit about their own health.

It's amazing how much better I felt afterwards. It started me back on the road to not dwelling on the dangers of Covid and significantly improved my mood. What's strange though is that all of my coworkers have had Covid, some multiple times, and at my current job I deliver to shut-ins with the disease on a regular basis. However, I have yet to get sick and when I was tested for the presence of Covid antibodies recently (I felt certain I had already had Covid but displayed no symptoms.) it turns out I had none.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:46 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:25 pm I wasn't tryna be to depress you more. I'm sure the % who would mask in certain scenarios is well above 3%. But the stat mentioned was those who would 'always' mask. And that's a pitifully low number these days even in airports.

No worries. This site is probably the only thing keeping me tethered to reality. I'm confident I'd be wandering the forests of the Pacific Northwest by now if not for the pressure release valve provided here.

EDIT: Yeah, in catching up, now need a break.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:31 pm

I have not seen a mask on anyone here in weeks.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:44 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:46 pm I'm confident I'd be wandering the forests of the Pacific Northwest by now if not for the pressure release valve provided here.

You should do that once even if you do maintain your sanity.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:59 am

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:23 am

Ouch.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 am

Apollo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:50 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:37 pm ...I'm ready to join them. I've been to a few outdoor markets over the summer and I don't mask there along with no one else masking and it's nice to faceless by having a face and to not breath the heat in and out. I'm so ready to go to a bar and sit and drink and sit and drink...
Join us! I stopped wearing a mask (except where required) in May 2021 after becoming fully vaccinated and being worn out from wearing the mask outdoors in the heat. My reasoning? I was fully vaccinated at that point, and tired of bending over backwards to protect people who don't give a shit about their own health.

I'm not going to sit here and lecture you on wearing a mask or not. I would kindly request that you not actively and gleefully encourage others who may be masking to stop wearing their masks, though, for those of us who do give a shit about our loved ones and their health. Some of us aren't so fortunate that we can pretend this is over because our loved ones, even if they are fully vaxxed and masked, are still at a higher risk of serious complications and death from COVID. I've come to peace with other folks deciding that they're done masking, but it does hit me wrong when they're advocating that others give up measures that help to protect my loved ones, even if it's only minutely.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 am Some of us aren't so fortunate that we can pretend this is over because our loved ones, even if they are fully vaxxed and masked, are still at a higher risk of serious complications and death from COVID. I've come to peace with other folks deciding that they're done masking, but it does hit me wrong when they're advocating that others give up measures that help to protect my loved ones, even if it's only minutely.

That's the conundrum. I am definitely at the top of the list. Over 50, immunosuppressed, asthmatic, allergic to too much, high blood pressure, clogged arteries, former (I hope. After 7+ years it's still a work in progress) smoker etc... etc... But still, the biggest reason for me is to not be the one infects my mom, who still won't vaccinate and is pushing 80.

Every week I'm more done than the last and I'm encouraged by the levels of infection, here two weeks after school has let in. Two more weeks and I swear to pancake I'm going to start letting off the gas. Of course I said that 4 weeks after St Pat's day only to see everything go to hell around here and I never made it, though I did start doing more shopping beyond basic food items.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am

I fear the whole pandemic has scarred my youngest. He gets really upset if he forgets his mask, even if we're not going anywhere or doing anything around other people. If he's not in the house, he has it on.

He's also started to become an extreme germaphobe. He stopped sitting next to friends at lunch because he was afraid of being near them without a mask, so he's taken to just sitting alone by himself. At dinner time, he doesn't want to eat near anyone else because he's afraid someone is "breathing" near his food.

I don't really know what to do to help him, but it seems to be getting worse instead of better.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:13 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am I fear the whole pandemic has scarred my youngest. He gets really upset if he forgets his mask, even if we're not going anywhere or doing anything around other people. If he's not in the house, he has it on.

He's also started to become an extreme germaphobe. He stopped sitting next to friends at lunch because he was afraid of being near them without a mask, so he's taken to just sitting alone by himself. At dinner time, he doesn't want to eat near anyone else because he's afraid someone is "breathing" near his food.

I don't really know what to do to help him, but it seems to be getting worse instead of better.

Counseling for kids can be hard to come by these days (long wait lists), but it might be worth looking into getting someone he can talk to about these things.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:28 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 amThat's the conundrum.

So many conundrums. I'm going to try to lay out where I'm at personally and how I got here, and hope (probably in vain) not to offend anyone. This could go in the marathon thread, but I really view this post as a 'personal politics' diatribe and it's building on existing convo here, so here it will live. This evolved to a much longer post than I initially planned, and I fault no one for skipping on right past it. But I had to get it out.

Every week I'm more done than the last and I'm encouraged by the levels of infection, here two weeks after school has let in. Two more weeks and I swear to pancake I'm going to start letting off the gas. Of course I said that 4 weeks after St Pat's day only to see everything go to hell around here and I never made it.

Same. This is maybe the 5th time I've been convinced that things are finally going to improve to the point where life can return to some sense of normalcy. The first four were woefully incorrect (IIRC, it was March 2021 when I got my first jab while cases were dropping; then summer 2021 when cases dropped from the spring surge; then fall '21 when my kids got jabbed, I got boosted, and cases were dropping yet again; then early '22 when the massive Omicron surge fell away.

Through all two years' worth of the pandemic through that point, I've been one of what I call the 5%ers--folks who have followed public health guidance nearly to a T--whole family gets jabbed as soon as eligible, didn't even get on a plane much less routinely travel, attended no public gatherings, dined indoors zero times, kept the kids home from in-person school for the whole 20-21 school year, then sent them for all of 21-22 masked (and they adhered to masking rules extremely strictly), worked from home whenever possible.

While I haven't personally been overly concerned with the risk to my household since fall of 2021 when we all obtained our 'vaccinated' status, we all kept up every precaution for another year in the hopes that the macro pandemic situation would resolve or improve itself.

Throughout the 2.5 years of the pandemic thus far, I recognize how lucky me and mine have been. We're privileged to be able to take all the precautions we did. We're privileged to be largely healthy and low-risk for extreme complications. We're privileged to live in a state where vaccination rates are higher than the national average, and in a county where vaccination rates are higher than the state average.

With that said, the toll that the pandemic has taken on our family has been immense. We lost an elderly family member early on, to COVID.
My kids lost social standing in their classes by missing time in-person. They lost social skill development by having severely restricted in-person time with a severely restricted group of friends over what is now the majority of their combined elementary school career. They are not nearly as physically fit as they were, due to having replaced their tae kwon do / dance / gymnastics classes (all of which deemed unsafe during the pandemic) with Zoom-based outschool events and being less motivated when not participating in a team/class setting. Despite best efforts from my wife and me, they've fallen behind their pre-pandemic academic development pace (though they're still doing fine).

That's just the kids. The constant debate on which precautions to take, what activities are worth the risk, which friends the kids can see and in what location/masking state, etc has taken a toll on familial relationships. We've seen extended family far less than we would have, and we're now talking a long enough period of time (2.5+ years) that this has its own set of costs. My niece/nephew barely know me though they're now of school age. I've not been to the gym since the week before the first lockdown, and as I was entering middle age at the start of the pandemic, the toll on my physical fitness has been significant--not to mention my mental health as the gym was a core piece of my stress-nuking outlets. I still run, I still do some weights/bodyweight exercises at home, but I just can't get in the same sort of routine as I did when a trip to an actual gym was a near-daily outing.

This past summer's long plateau finally broke me, I think. I still want to protect the immunocompromised, the olds, the infirm, the under-6 mo crowd, and the public in general. This is something that keeps me awake at night still. But it's interspersed with other concerns--have I damaged my kids over this pandemic more than I've protected them? What about my relationship with my brother and his kids? My wife? My own health and well-being?

Combining those concerns with the fact (and hopefully we can all openly acknowledge at this point that it is a fact) that the nation in general is done whether I am or not, and therefore my own impact on the state of public health is tiny, I was having a very difficult time continuing. Even the most compromised in my own family (eg wife's grandmother, my mom) have given up their own mitigations (though unlike LM's, mine have all gotten jabbed, a fact for which I am eternally grateful). To put it bluntly, the costs to my family of continuing severe mitigations are high, while the benefits to ourselves and to others are low.

High is not un-doable, and low is not zero, so it remains a conundrum.

But we've opened up as of the start of this school year much more than before. The kids are not masking at school (the benefit to them was extremely low given that literally no one else in school masked and they eat lunch in a shared space). They are seeing friends, at our home or theirs, indoors. They've resumed indoor extracurricular activities. They attend friends' birthday parties, even if they may take place at a place of business with walls and a door.

My mom flew out to see us for the first time since before the pandemic. We still don't dine indoors, but do enter places where we order/procure food inside and then eat outside. We enter businesses that are not super-crowded, unmasked. I'm planning to attend NHL games this coming season (possibly masked) for the first time since early 2020. Seeing my daughter excel on her volleyball team over the past month has been wonderful.

All of this has been contingent on our local community level being low. When that inevitably rises to medium, and likely back to high, we'll re-evaluate and will certainly cut back on these activities and/or religiously mask indoors again. All this said, we will continue to mask when requested (by businesses or friends) indefinitely. We'll continue taking every vaccine the CDC recommends. If we travel on a plane or are in some other scenario where someone who may be high-risk or immunocompromised is in a situation where they must be near us for an extended period, you better believe we're masking. The low-hanging fruit will always be consumed. But I'd be lying if I presented these recent changes as anything short of amazing for my mental health and the day-to-day joy of my kids.

I question whether this has been the right move on a daily basis. My youngest got COVID a week into the school year. My Mom got it early this month (unrelated to the choices me and mine have made, as this was pre-visit). Lots of folks in my orbit continue to come down with it. But I'm at peace with the fact that I almost certainly will, too.

I'm at a point where the concrete damage I was seeing in (and participating in inflicting on) my family outweigh the nebulous protection I was providing to society at large. To put it another way, my family, when taken as part of a society that has determined that uncontrolled spread is the desired outcome, was incorrectly applying risk assessment and doing more harm than good. We're highly likely to contract COVID whether we continue harming ourselves consistently or not. The world is highly likely to see the pandemic play out as it will whether my family continues harming ourselves consistently or not.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:08 am I fear the whole pandemic has scarred my youngest.

...

I don't really know what to do to help him, but it seems to be getting worse instead of better.

That's terrible, YK. My kiddos have had similar struggles, though to a far less severe degree relative to yours. Best of luck in helping your child heal.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 amI would kindly request that you not actively and gleefully encourage others who may be masking to stop wearing their masks, though, for those of us who do give a shit about our loved ones and their health. Some of us aren't so fortunate that we can pretend this is over because our loved ones, even if they are fully vaxxed and masked, are still at a higher risk of serious complications and death from COVID.

And this is what keeps me up at night. As I said above, I recognize that I'm in a very privileged position relative to many others. And I struggle with the risk calculus of reducing harm to my own family increasing damage to others, even if it's a miniscule increase. I wish there were a better answer (rather, I wish there were a better answer that could actually be implemented by the society we have).

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:10 pm

Ok sure.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:33 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:28 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 amI would kindly request that you not actively and gleefully encourage others who may be masking to stop wearing their masks, though, for those of us who do give a shit about our loved ones and their health. Some of us aren't so fortunate that we can pretend this is over because our loved ones, even if they are fully vaxxed and masked, are still at a higher risk of serious complications and death from COVID.
And this is what keeps me up at night. As I said above, I recognize that I'm in a very privileged position relative to many others. And I struggle with the risk calculus of reducing harm to my own family increasing damage to others, even if it's a miniscule increase. I wish there were a better answer (rather, I wish there were a better answer that could actually be implemented by the society we have).

I totally get that it's a balancing act for each person/family. I'm very sympathetic to mental health issues related to continued masking, or social issues for kids, etc. I'm not going to be the guy who yells for everyone to wear masks from now until eternity because I've got a kid who is particularly vulnerable. I don't think Apollo meant any ill will when he typed "Join us!" and intimated his continuing safeguards were only going to protect those who aren't doing their part. I suspect he was just being glib, but it still strikes me harshly as someone who has sat by his son's bedside watching the ventilator breathe for him for much of a month because a cold got out of control a few years ago and turned into pneumonia.

It's not an easy balancing act for me, either. At this point I'm masking indoors except at home or in my office, and we make non-immediate family members mask when they enter our house (and we wear masks then, too). Even the grandparents. We get some grumbling occasionally, but that's the price for admission, whether you want to see the grandkids or make some money by upgrading our bathroom. I don't really wear masks outdoors, but I also avoid major crowds (no Wrigley Field afternoons for me). I've started attending some work-related events - even if I'm Bill Hader and the only person in a room wearing a mask. I might get some looks, but people often elide over the part of the mask guidance that says you should continue masking if you have vulnerable family members at home.

I wish more people were masking, because I believe that near universal masking could be a big contributor to getting past COVID in a good way (as opposed to getting past it just by learning to live with it). I know it's not going to happen, though, and we're not at the point where an additional handful of people keeping masks on is going to make any real difference. I'll keep doing what I can to protect me and my family, and I'll generally refrain from making comments about other people's decision not to mask - unless they're trying to get others to stop masking, too.

That's a little rambling and disjointed, but there you have it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:40 pm

I'm with you. In your shoes, I think I'd be doing exactly as you have.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:58 pm

Just to circle back to trends, I'm not sure why I'm seeing this now for the first time (last updated in June of 2022), but it's making the rounds again now, likely because of what's coming.

1. May 13: Fully vaccinated no longer need masks
2. July 27: Recommend universal indoor masking in areas of substantial or high transmission
3. Feb 25: Recommend universal indoor masking in areas of high community level
4. April 18: Judge strikes down transportation mask mandate

Follow along for fun.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:30 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 pm Disagree with the disagree. There are a lot of people who will switch from masking to not. Not because they pay attention to what Biden says or put stake in it, but because they are constantly battling between what is safe, what is convenient, and what they want to do. Every bit of input that supports what they want vs. what is safe tends to get outsized weight.

Disagree with the disagree disagreeing with the disagree. Biden’s pronouncement isn’t going to move the needle, which was decidedly and consistently and for quite a while swinging in the direction that the public already feels the pandemic is over and it’s time to get on with life. Whether you agree with that sentiment or not (and I know the prevailing feeling here is NOT), I don’t think you can put that on Biden’s statement now about the pandemic being over.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 pm There are hundreds (thousands?) of studies that say alcohol is bad but you get one that says red wine lowers BP or whatever and everyone starts pounding pinot.

Really? I mean, really?

Those studies come out every couple of years, and they get trumpeted all over CNN and MSNBC and The Today Show and The View and all the other garbage media sources. But do you really think they have any discernible impact on people’s drinking behavior? If you have anything that suggests that’s the case, I’d be interested to see it.