The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Alefroth wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:56 pm I haven't been paying much attention. Are other countries around the world disregarding it to the extent we are?
Update from New Zealand:
Health authorities are increasing the availability of masks and RATs for members of the public amid concerns that the number of COVID infections in the community is twice as high as the official numbers.

More people will also be able to access three antiviral treatments for treating early COVID-19 amid concerns BA.5 could “significantly” increase case numbers and hospitalisations in the coming weeks.

Under New Zealand’s current “orange light” restrictions, people are already required to wear masks in public indoor settings, such as public transport, shops and libraries.

...

Verrall had previously outlined plans to deliver 50 free masks to every school child in years 4-7.

A move to “red” restrictions would introduce an indoor gathering limit of 200 people but there is little political appetite for such a disruption and most infectious disease experts do not think it would have a significant impact at this time.
But the best?
Ardern said the government remained focused on isolation requirements, mask use and vaccination.

She said there would be an increased focus on boosters for at-risk groups, such as older people and those who are immuno-suppressed. Many people in these groups are now eligible for a second booster.

While she acknowledged many countries had removed isolation requirements, Ardern said it was still important for household contacts of confirmed cases to isolate.

Baker said isolation remained crucial and anyone unwell needed to stay home.

“Going out while unwell is just like driving drunk,” he said.

“You are going to kill people. You can’t see the virus but it will kill.”
This is genuine leadership in action.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

More than half of the U.S. now lives in a location where the CDC recommends indoor masking - based on their new updated color maps (Community levels) vs the 96% community spread map.



And yet they still can't come out and say to states that mask mandates should be enacted for public places. Total insanity. I'm looking forward to whatever map and color scheme they will need to pivot to next.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:29 pm I'm looking forward to whatever map and color scheme they will need to pivot to next.
I humbly suggest white. Eggshell for high, pearl for medium and alabaster for low.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Mandate? We are the country of freedom, we don't mandate... I mean except for wearing seatbelts and carrying unwanted or dangerous pregnancies to term.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

In case you're wondering how Dr. Fauci feels:
Dr. Anthony Fauci, the top infectious disease expert in the federal government who helped lead the US COVID-19 response, will be leaving his post before the end of President Joe Biden's term, he told Politico in an interview.

Fauci has been hinting for several weeks that his time at the helm of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and as Biden's chief medical advisor will soon come to an end. He first said in a June interview with the Washington Post that the time would come "sooner rather than later,"

"[In] the last few years, particularly the stress on my body and my mind with COVID, I think I have aged," Fauci said in the Washington Post interview. "I just feel it. I'm just beaten up. I do think more now that there is a finiteness to my being."
Of note:
Fauci has been with the federal government for five decades, but became a household name during the Trump administration when he did frequent media interviews to update the nation about the coronavirus.

...

Fauci plans to teach and write books after he leaves his post as NIAID director, and told the Washington Post he hoped his work would encourage people to go into public service.
In fairness, he was likely going to be retiring soon, but I'm guessing doing so during a pandemic where the response has been...less than ideal, is not how he wants to be remembered. It's unfortunate as he was an absolute giant in the 80s and into the early 2000s, but I think the pandemic (and Trump stink) has absolutely tarnished his legacy.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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This is for you Smoove_B. How did things get this bad?

Edit: Also fun that people are saying they don't believe it. FWIW have read several stories now about patients begging for monkeypox testing and getting nowhere.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I had people laughing at me when I said it's going to be spreading through football camps and then colleges soon enough. Completely mismanaged. I don't know what's happening, honestly. Could be that the entirety of public health is disillusioned and demoralized. Could be leadership isn't taking charge. I know in our state they're leaving it up to your local PCP to suss out. There's no community outreach; there's no targeted education or vaccination happening. Basically, go to your PCP and hope they recognize monkeypox and refer you to the state for testing and treatment. It's beyond broken - it's worse than COVID-19 because we've know about this for 20+ years, but because it doesn't happen in America, we ignored it. But we have tools and techniques to address it - we're just not doing it.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Regarding Covid-19, this pretty much sums it up:


We can manage our way through BA.5. We just need 150 million people to get a vaccine dose, all businesses to voluntarily improve air quality, everyone to start voluntarily masking and testing, all immunocompromised people to receive evulsheld… Ideally in the next few days or so.

Alternatively, we can just present an unrealistic but specific-sounding plan, offer plenty of vague reassurance, and encourage people to just keep moving along and not pay too much attention
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

So no idea still about a 4th shot for under 50. Also we are to consider wearing a mask *if* we somehow know it's poorly ventilated.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I would not expect a shot if you're under 50, no. I think there was a belief at the federal level (no idea why) that this summer would be like the last and that we'd all be getting another shot in the Fall to address the winter variant(s). I've been seeing some people online saying it appears to have been a belief at higher levels that we've had so much exposure at this point, it's confusing that people are still getting sick. Completely ignoring the vaccinated and completely ignoring how the new variants bypass immunity.

Regardless, the insane high-level of circulating virus all spring and now into summer means the <50 crowd is at increased risk. They're confident we won't die in droves so no urgency there either. Just add it to the list of times you get Covid-19 and hope this exposure isn't the one that gives you Long Covid. I also don't think they anticipated the GOP blocking funding for Fall 2022 vaccine production - also hilarious. So now we're headed into the fall in a much worse position than last year.

I don't think it will be as crazy as say the Fall of 2020, but it won't surprise me at all if there are more disruptions in the supply chain - especially food - in the coming months. I'm not saying to hoard or even to stock up, but I would likely make sure you have enough extra to afford you a cushion.

EDIT: Fret forgive me
Last edited by Smoove_B on Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

I personally know an < 50 person who recently died with 3 shots but I guess it makes sense to just throw doses out. It's not like some of us are 9 months out from our booster and we know its immune evasive. But as you said we you probably won't die, unless we do like my wife's former boss, and then guess we'll never know if that 4th shot would have helped. It won't be like we stood around talking about that or wondered why he wasn't considered at enough risk to get therapeutic support. It doesn't feel like the government doesn't give a shit if we live or die unless we're super wealthy. I also guess they are also factoring in that the US is such a compassionate reliable nation to live with long term disability. It's totally a culture of life here, right?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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He must have had some moral failing and not been responsible enough with his life choices. :roll:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Biden has tested positive for covid.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/preside ... d=87184049
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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This is so bad


COVID vaccination rates among kids under 5 peaked just 2 weeks into their eligibility & are now decreasing

2.8% of ~19 million children under 5 have been vaccinated
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm going to post this news here because it's rooted in politics:
The Biden administration is preparing a sweeping initiative to develop a next generation of Covid-19 immunizations that would thwart future coronavirus variants and dramatically reduce rates of coronavirus infection or transmission, building on current shots whose impact has been mainly to prevent serious illness and death, the White House told STAT.

To kick off the effort, the White House is gathering key federal officials, top scientists, and pharmaceutical executives including representatives of Pfizer and Moderna for a Tuesday “summit” to discuss the new technologies and lay out a road map for developing them.

...

Jha acknowledged that such a campaign would likely require more money from Congress, though he declined to provide a specific estimate.
I believe this is not only going to be about trying to engineer a vaccine that reduces transmission, but also trying to get the nasal vaccine rolled out as well (which might be connected to being able to reduce spread).

But if this all hinges on funding from Congress? Yeah, good luck.

Regardless, it's an important meeting and a good idea, but we're (still) not going to vaccinate our way out of this in the short or mid-term.

If you want to get good info about the nasal vaccines, check here, though I'm not sure if it's a bit too technical. Good information overall, regardless.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by El Guapo »

Do we know how our lords Manchin and Sinema feel about this vaccine spending? I believe since this is pure funding that it could be done via a reconciliation bill, which as per our wise founders' clear intent only requires 50 votes in the Senate. So seems like this could be done maybe hopefully?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

After the GOP in the House completely cut the legs out from the current vaccination plan for the Fall/Winter of 2023? I doubt it. Unless there's money to be made by investing in companies that are going to make the nasal vaccines. Then I guess they'll find out where to buy stocks long before it gets approved, so maybe you're right?

I don't know how Manchin and Sinema feel about vaccine funding, though I do know Manchin was against vaccination mandates.

Also Manchin has Covid.

EDIT: Sinema was campaigning for Covid relief (vaccinations, testing) for people in AZ back in April of 2022, but I can't find her saying anything specific about Congress funding vaccination creation and distribution. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she demanded more relief but then actually voted against funding it.

Manchin was petitioned by his constitutents in May of 2022 to support funding, but to date I can't find his actual position on the issue.

EDIT#2: Murkowski also testing positive today
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

More on the conundrum that's been created by denying boosters to the under 50 crowd:
The dilemma facing the FDA is that the immunity many people have gotten from getting vaccinated or infected has been wearing off. At the same time, the most contagious version of the virus to emerge yet — the omicron subvariant BA.5 — is making people even more vulnerable.

So as COVID is starting to become more serious than a cold or flu again, most people younger than age 50 aren't eligible for fourth shots — second boosters — to protect themselves. In response, the FDA was considering opening up eligibility for second boosters for all adults.

But letting more people get boosted with the original vaccine now could interfere with plans to boost them with updated, hopefully more protective vaccines in the fall to blunt the toll of the winter surge.
More importantly:
If the bivalent boosters can be accelerated, the FDA would skip opening up fourth shots of the original vaccines this summer and just wait for the new double-barreled omicron vaccines in the fall.

The possible shift is provoking mixed reactions.

Some think it is the smartest strategy. Three shots are still protecting most younger, otherwise healthy people against serious illness, they say. And boosting people again now, and then so soon again in the fall, could confuse people, potentially eroding their willingness to get any boosters, according to some experts.
What should have happened is the regular boosters should have opened for people under 50 back in the spring, but once again the administration gambled on the summer being fine (instead of the ~3000 weekly deaths we're now seeing in late July) so now they're rushing to a Fall 2022 solution.
"I think this is the right call," Dr. Celine Gounder, a senior fellow at the Kaiser Family Foundation, said during an interview with NPR. "If you get a booster now with the original formulation of the vaccine, this may in fact be counter-productive. It may prevent the second booster dose given this fall from taking and from you developing an immune response to that booster."

But others aren't so sure. They say the new vaccines may not be significantly better.

"People should not regard them as some sort of magic bullet that gives them super-strong protection," says Dr. John Moore, an immunologist at Weill Cornell Medicine. "These are not going to be magic bullet game-changers because they're not that much better than the already available vaccine boosters.

...

"I don't see the benefit waiting for a BA.5-specific booster since BA.5 may be in the rearview mirror and well past us by the time that's available," says Dr. Peter Hotez, dean of the Baylor College of Medicine National School of Tropical Medicine.

People younger than 50 should at least have the option to protect themselves now, especially with BA.5 already surging, some say.
They've put us in a no-win position but I think if they gave me the option to booster now, I would with the hopes that I'd be eligible for another one 4-6 months from now.

Still masking everywhere, regardless.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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With school starting in 2 weeks, these are not the trends I was hoping to see.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:10 pm More on the conundrum that's been created by denying boosters to the under 50 crowd:
The dilemma facing the FDA is that the immunity many people have gotten from getting vaccinated or infected has been wearing off. At the same time, the most contagious version of the virus to emerge yet — the omicron subvariant BA.5 — is making people even more vulnerable.

So as COVID is starting to become more serious than a cold or flu again, most people younger than age 50 aren't eligible for fourth shots — second boosters — to protect themselves. In response, the FDA was considering opening up eligibility for second boosters for all adults.

But letting more people get boosted with the original vaccine now could interfere with plans to boost them with updated, hopefully more protective vaccines in the fall to blunt the toll of the winter surge.
I figured it was the usual analysis paralysis. It's not like we haven't been seeing this play out over and over.
What should have happened is the regular boosters should have opened for people under 50 back in the spring, but once again the administration gambled on the summer being fine (instead of the ~3000 weekly deaths we're now seeing in late July) so now they're rushing to a Fall 2022 solution.
FWIW this had made me rethink Trump's response. I mean he absolutely made it much worse and showed no leadership. However it doesn't change that public health was in a very sorry state. It's really frustrating because they seem to be constantly biased against action and keep getting surprised with bad news. I can't truly grade them obviously but I won't be surprised if someday the consensus is that they massively failed as they stuck to their ever rosy forecasts and kept making the wrong decisions over and over.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

malchior wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:19 pm I figured it was the usual analysis paralysis. It's not like we haven't been seeing this play out over and over.
I don't think that's it anymore. I think there's very clearly a narrative being peddled from the federal government all the way down to locals about how Covid-19 is over and vaccines are the only thing they're ever going to push. They've accepted a steady-state of about 100K annual deaths now and aren't worried about the millions that are going to be disabled. Either because they're hoping we'll figure it out (what's causing it) or as elected officials they'll be long gone before the real problem is visible (5,10 years from now).

Just looking at what our own state is publishing today on social media (and what they've been publishing for months) - a detailed list of things to do for Covid-19 to help reduce risk. They cannot say "wear a mask" -nothing in the official guidance includes it. And yet this week (as we surge into more cases, more hospitalizations and more deaths) they've now included a background photo of people wearing masks; I've seen two variants. But the actual text? Nothing at all about wearing masks. Cannot speak the forbidden word.
I can't truly grade them obviously but I won't be surprised if someday the consensus is that they massively failed as they stuck to their ever rosy forecasts and kept making the wrong decisions over and over.
Trump was bad; Biden is also bad but in a different way. I think what is happening is that once people (non-public health) realized that the general public doesn't care about death or disability as long as they can continue to do things or buy stuff, the polices don't matter. So they'll double-down on vaccinations and Paxlovid with the hopes that deaths aren't overwhelming, and just urge everyone to chug forward.

It's actually scary to me because someone somewhere figured out what the magic numbers are - they know how many dead people cause outrage and concern and we're not there anymore. Don't believe for a second they don't know how many cases are actually out there and what the next 6+ months look like - they're modeling the hell out of it all. And their tone hasn't changed so that tells me whatever death and suffering they're seeing is acceptable.

We are in uncharted territory - still - after 2.5+ years of this.

I'm watching what's happening with monkeypox and it's just starting to ramp up now - another situation where they ran numbers and came up with acceptable suffering and just decided to see what happens. Well, now it's likely out of control and we're all in for a ride.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:36 pm
malchior wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:19 pm I figured it was the usual analysis paralysis. It's not like we haven't been seeing this play out over and over.
I don't think that's it anymore. I think there's very clearly a narrative being peddled from the federal government all the way down to locals about how Covid-19 is over and vaccines are the only thing they're ever going to push. They've accepted a steady-state of about 100K annual deaths now and aren't worried about the millions that are going to be disabled. Either because they're hoping we'll figure it out (what's causing it) or as elected officials they'll be long gone before the real problem is visible (5,10 years from now).

Just looking at what our own state is publishing today on social media (and what they've been publishing for months) - a detailed list of things to do for Covid-19 to help reduce risk. They cannot say "wear a mask" -nothing in the official guidance includes it. And yet this week (as we surge into more cases, more hospitalizations and more deaths) they've now included a background photo of people wearing masks; I've seen two variants. But the actual text? Nothing at all about wearing masks. Cannot speak the forbidden word.
Sure but I still think they are dithering over the vaccine stuff. Let's say they have gone all in on vaccines then why not maximize it? And that's the problem too. If that's the *whole plan* it could make sense that you'd have in-fighting to get the decision perfect. When you just need to make a goddamn decision. That under-50 vaccines are still being kicked around is insane when we are throwing them away?! It's idiotic.
It's actually scary to me because someone somewhere figured out what the magic numbers are - they know how many dead people cause outrage and concern and we're not there anymore. Don't believe for a second they don't know how many cases are actually out there and what the next 6+ months look like - they're modeling the hell out of it all. And their tone hasn't changed so that tells me whatever death and suffering they're seeing is acceptable.
I doubt it's precise but I absolutely agree the political class has a good feel on what's acceptable. They've also just listened to the public who are terrible at risk and don't like reality. 200K people dying? That's other people. Oh it was my dad?! Well nothing we could have done. Americans are masters at rationalizing the fantasy world they choose to live in. And the elite count on it in so many ways.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Bringing my reaction to the news in EBG here. I guess at least now we have a decision but I have completely lost my trust in the FDA. I mean September 15th to get started ahead of a 'winter surge'? WTF is that? There is a surge *right now*. Deaths are creeping up to 500 a day again. Worse it isn't hard to feel that they are 'punishing' (lack of a better word right now) my wife and I who diligently got our boosters when they became available. We will just wait out waning immunity and just roll the dice on a few more months of delay. And like I've said I just saw one of my healthy similarly aged boosted peers die recently so this really hits close to home.

Edit: This makes my blood boil with rage. THEY HAVE BEEN THROWING AWAY DOSES FOR MONTHS. I know the FDA is really important but they've been just too slow to act. It's like a theme in our government now. All talk, no action, and we die. And there is absolutely no accountability for their failures.
In internal deliberations, some senior health officials argued that eligibility for a second booster should be broadened before the reformulated version is ready because coronavirus infections are on the rise again. Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the president’s chief medical adviser, and Dr. Ashish K. Jha, the White House pandemic response coordinator, both advocated that position.

“I think there should be flexibility and permissiveness in at least allowing” a second booster for younger Americans, Dr. Fauci said in an interview this month. One alternative discussed was offering the shots only to a subset of younger, at-risk individuals, such as pregnant women.

But officials at the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention argued that the government should concentrate instead on the fall campaign with updated doses — if the campaign could begin soon enough. After both Pfizer and Moderna assured the F.D.A. recently that they could deliver millions of doses by mid-September, regulators decided it was better to wait for those shots.
Last edited by malchior on Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

There is potential for the winter 2023 surge to make the summer surge look like a dream.

I maintain they did not expect the summer to be as bad as it is and even in saying that, "bad" is subjective because apparently the new high-water mark is January of 2022. A steady-state of ~3000 deaths a week is acceptable. Whatever the hospital/ICU load is right now? Acceptable.

They are all-in on optics. Overall, people aren't dropping dead and those that are are largely unvaccinated. So just keep pushing vaccination and eventually everyone that was going to die will have died and the rest of us will just chug along. Well, those that aren't disabled. Or dealing with whatever the next variant is.

LA County reversed their position to have masking resume after pressure from businesses and politicians. Schools are going to be starting soon and of course masking is absolutely off the table.

This is how it is now. Fend for yourself and hope that when you're exposed the conditions are in your favor.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

What's also crazy is that you have Fauci and Jha essentially advocating for flexibilty which costs nearly nothing and the FDA and CDC just ignore them.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, I just don't get it. In a situation where there were limited doses available, choices need to be made. But we're getting ready to destroy *millions* of doses that could have otherwise been provided to people under the age of 50 that were interested in shot #4.

It's similar to what happened with the monkeypox vaccinations. They had them sitting in Denmark (~300k doses) waiting for some magical number to be hit here in the United States with respect to cases. At a basic level, it's baffling because you're doing nothing while there's a communicable disease spreading. Stopping spread is public health 101. A much darker take is that they were waiting to see if it spread out into other populations - just sort of watching various MSM segments suffer and thinking maybe it'll just "burn out".

I'm at a complete loss to explain any of it.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:32 am

I'm at a complete loss to explain any of it.
Just wait until current ineffective leaders and agencies (all levels, all governments) start feeling the effects of long COVID.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LordMortis »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:20 am
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:32 am

I'm at a complete loss to explain any of it.
Just wait until current ineffective leaders and agencies (all levels, all governments) start feeling the effects of long COVID.

Good and bad for the rest of us. They'll hopefully see a bit better but cloudy brain function might just see leading in worse ways and then there's the whole needing more care at the ant's expense and putting more strain on the people taking care of us. All around, I wonder what it will take to collapse our daily service, health care, and teaching sectors.

Google says

"Jun 22, 2022 — Overall, 1 in 13 adults in the U.S. (7.5%) have “long COVID” symptoms, defined as symptoms lasting three or more months after first contracting ." but the CDC link that it goes to is down.

EDIT ABC says

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/american- ... d=85569861
Nearly 1 in 5 American adults who had COVID still have long-haul symptoms, data shows
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Yes, 1 in 5 is the new number *and* the bigger discussion point (that no one seems to be talking about) is that those numbers include vaccinated and unvaccinated; it doesn't matter. Vaccines protect against hospitalization and death. They don't seemingly impact Long Covid risk.

But yeah, who cares? Just keep getting it, over and over. It'll be great!

I now think Covid would need to be killing people within 24 hours - like the Black Plague did - for people to consider changing things. Potential long term impacts? Rolling the dice every time you get it as to whether or not you'll get Long Covid? Who cares? I need to be mask free and out doing stuff.
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gilraen
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by gilraen »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 11:19 am Vaccines protect against hospitalization and death. They don't seemingly impact Long Covid risk.
That's actually quite disappointing. There was some hope that vaccines helped with that since presumably they enabled your immune system to recognize and attack the virus right away, before it had a chance to lodge deep in your internal organs.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I think it comes down to not fully understanding exactly what Long Covid is. And the truth is, it's probably layered - that there are people that will clear the virus and be 100% back to normal in 21 days. And then a subset of people that it will take 4-6 weeks before they fully recover. And then the final group that's experiencing symptoms after 6+ months. Could be something genetic or related to underlying health conditions. I know I keep saying it, but we're still learning so much about the virus, and then it changes (slightly) and that might impact any number of things.

Here's a report on the study that was released on vaccinations and Long Covid:
Vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 lowers the risk of long COVID after infection by only about 15%, according to a study of more than 13 million people1. That’s the largest cohort that has yet been used to examine how much vaccines protect against the condition, but it is unlikely to end the uncertainty.

Long COVID — illness that persists for weeks or months after infection with SARS-CoV-2 — has proved difficult to study, not least because the array of symptoms makes it hard to define. Even finding out how common it is has been challenging. Some studies2,3 have suggested that it occurs in as many as 30% of people infected with the virus. But a November study4 of about 4.5 million people treated at US Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) hospitals suggests that the number is 7% overall and lower than that for those who were not hospitalized.
And remember - this study covered January to October of 2021 - before Omicron. Now there's a whole new group of people suffering and maybe we'll start to get a handle on how their cohort compares to the 2021 Covid cases.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by wonderpug »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:32 am Yeah, I just don't get it. In a situation where there were limited doses available, choices need to be made. But we're getting ready to destroy *millions* of doses that could have otherwise been provided to people under the age of 50 that were interested in shot #4.



I'm at a complete loss to explain any of it.
My guess is that this path was chosen to maximize the participation in the fall booster. If the less at-risk population gets the summer booster, fewer of them will want to take the newer one in the fall. Anectodally I can think of a number of acquaintances that are booster weary and skeptical and would act just that way, but might be convinced to get just the fall booster.

Unfortunately it’s just too much to ask of society to offer a checkbox for “I’m lower risk <50 but also intelligent enough to get both a summer and a fall booster.”
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Perhaps. I think we're going to find booster uptake (shot 3, shot 4) in general is going to be bad this Fall, regardless, There seems to be a core of people that will do it no matter what, but plenty more that are only getting shots if required. So many people did what their employers required (1 or 2 shots) and that's it. We shouldn't be surprised by this just looking at influenza vaccination uptake in hospitals (by hospital staff). Without mandates hospital staff had like a 43% uptake. Once it was mandated? over 90%. And these are doctors, nurses, medical support staff, etc... - people that you'd think know so much more about vaccines and protecting at-risk populations. And yet unless we mandate influenza vaccines, more than half don't take an annual shot.

And that's why this vaccine-only strategy was doomed to fail from the start. Humans. Humans are the worst.

Even better, once again Dr. Topol dropping knowledge


I have many questions about the BA.5-specific booster in Sept plan
1. How did it get accelerated from Oct/Nov?
2. It took 7 mos for a BA.1 (unused), but 2 for BA.5?
3. Why not offer millions of doses to be discarded now for HCW and others <age 50 at⬆️risk
4. What will be the circulating variant whenever the BA-5 booster shot is available?
5. Why doesn't the Administration tell us that cost of administering the shots (already purchased) is playing a role in decision-making?
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Case in point --


New analysis: Over 77% of Americans (256 million) and 66% of Americans 65+ (45 million) are not up to date on their COVID-19 vaccines, making the population vulnerable to severe outcomes from future surges. There are wide disparities among states, from 11% in AL/MS to 36% in VT.

Our up to date calculator goes beyond simply counting the boosted population and accounts for people who are between doses according to CDC's up to date guidelines (old graphic from April here). We account for age groups and vaccine types.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

A whole new cohort of single issue voters:
“I wish I’d woken up to this cause sooner,” said one protester, Lisa Longnecker, 54, who has a 17-year-old son. “But I can’t think of a single more important issue. It’s going to decide how I vote.”

Ms. Longnecker and her fellow objectors are part of a potentially destabilizing new movement: parents who joined the anti-vaccine and anti-mask cause during the pandemic, narrowing their political beliefs to a single-minded obsession over those issues. Their thinking hardened even as Covid-19 restrictions and mandates were eased and lifted, cementing in some cases into a skepticism of all vaccines.

Nearly half of Americans oppose masking and a similar share is against vaccine mandates for schoolchildren, polls show. But what is obscured in those numbers is the intensity with which some parents have embraced these views. While they once described themselves as Republicans or Democrats, they now identify as independents who plan to vote based solely on vaccine policies.
We are so boned. As democracy in America is circling the drain, our future likely hinges on "independents" that are now wearing the anti-vax mantle.
In interviews, 27 parents who called themselves anti-vaccine and anti-mask voters described strikingly similar paths to their new views. They said they had experienced alarm about their children during pandemic quarantines. They pushed to reopen schools and craved normalcy. They became angry, blaming lawmakers for the disruption to their children’s lives.

Many congregated in Facebook groups that initially focused on advocating in-person schooling. Those groups soon latched onto other issues, such as anti-mask and anti-vaccine messaging. While some parents left the online groups when schools reopened, others took more extreme positions over time, burrowing into private anti-vaccine channels on messaging apps like WhatsApp and Telegram.

Eventually, some began questioning vaccines for measles and other diseases, where inoculations have long been proven effective. Activists who oppose all vaccines further enticed them by joining online parent groups and posting inaccurate medical studies and falsehoods.

“So many people, but especially young parents, have come to this cause in the last year,” said Janine Pera, 65, a longtime activist against all vaccines who attended the Orinda protest. “It’s been a huge gift to the movement.”
The connection to social media (and Facebook) will be one for historians to marvel over.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's silicon-turf organizing.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Zaxxon »

Oh, yeah, that's a huge thing. It's why we now have a local school board that's inept at doing school board things but very good at justifying why public health is a parental decision best left to each individual family.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Blackhawk »

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Looks like a teaser is out for Winter 2023


“As of July 21, 2022, 227.8 million Americans (70%) were unvaccinated, had not completed their primary series, or had not gotten a booster dose.”
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LordMortis »

I'm one of them. :( No sense in changing the plan when they hit late July to say the new vaccines wouldn't be available until mid September. I'm in isolation enough and continue mask wearing in everything but my severely limited social situations that I'm not the big concern. I actually planned the timing of my last vaccine to get my 5th, semi annual, (immuno suppressed) poke right about a week ago. No one is pushing for this or flu or pneumonia but I'll be damned if everyone isn't pushing me for a shingles vaccine. I'll wait for my PCP to join the fray before I do though. I'm much more concerned about an updated pneumonia vaccine than anything else behind COVID and possibly the flu.
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