The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Zaxxon]

Sad that this CDC update belongs in the politics thread, not the marathon thread, but here we are...

[Smoove_B]

President of the AMA offers his thoughts:

AMA president says he’ll continue masking indoors regardless of CDC’s updated guidance and recommends others do the same to protect those at higher risk:

[Zaxxon]

It's an interesting statement. Since no metrics are given and COVID will not be 'gone' for a very long time if ever, it reads as 'mask forever.'

Which is a choice, for sure. But I would think a more effective response would have been to point out a different, more conservative suggestion for guidance rather than this. 99% of folks will tune this sort of response out immediately at this point, so I'm not sure why he felt the need to issue it.

[Smoove_B]

The number of my public health folks that are *raging* right now at the late Friday afternoon CDC news drop, just ahead of the State of the Union address is impressive to watch. I am guessing this is part of that - the group of us pushing back against the nonsense that is this new recommended policy and the actual harm it will cause.

There responses are on a spectrum of pure anger to a call for more meaningful metrics, tied specifically to vaccination rates and not lagging indicators like hospitalizations. We're all feeling things now.



I mean, there were still ~3K deaths yesterday. But today? No today is the day to tell 70% of America to take off their masks. Totally reasonable.

[Blackhawk]

Vaccination rates are stalled, and the masks were coming off regardless of what the CDC said.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, word on the street is that federal masking requirements are going to be removed from air travel in the next month as well.

I hope history at least remembers there were some of us that tried.

[Jaymon]

Yeah, I am keeping my mask on. Maybe forever? Yeah, maybe forever. The KN95 comes in a wide variety of fashionable colors, and I get a pretty good fit.

[Smoove_B]

I'm putting this here because it's *technically* politics.

Sure, on Tuesday 50,000+ Americans will test positive for covid, 4,000+ will be newly hospitalized and 1,500+ will die. But the important thing is that it won’t “look” that way.

[LordMortis]

Yeah, I am keeping my mask on. Maybe forever? Yeah, maybe forever. The KN95 comes in a wide variety of fashionable colors, and I get a pretty good fit.

Forever? No. Do I see a light at the end of the tunnel yet? No. I'm hopeful to have a relaxed restaurant but still not drinking or lingering experience and to do more leisurely grocery shopping but still with mask by mid spring. Maybe even have drinks in public in summer if the world is really really good but probably not. I'm hoping not to have re evaluate that hopeful position in September.

Wearing a mask seems like such a small thing when I'm worried an unstable dictator on the other end of the world is putting nukes on the table because he doesn't have enough power as the richest man in the world while he sends countless to kill and be killed in one of their kindred nations.

[Defiant]

On the plus side, maybe making like things have returned to normal will cause Republicans, who regularly take the flip position of what Democrats take, will start taking the pandemic seriously?

[Jeff V]

My kids still wear their mask to school. I wear mine when I go shopping (or anywhere in a public place). Kids and wife do too. Guess who hasn't caught Covid yet? My family, that's who. And my wife works at a nursing home -- knows many who died, and nearly all of her coworkers had it sometime or another. Kids were deemed exposed...but didn't get it. The host of the NYE party we went to tested positive days later, along with her kids.

Pardon me if I don't change the habits we've all become accustomed to.

[El Guapo]

My kids' school is going mask optional as of Friday. Now on the one hand this is still a very low risk environment. All students and staff are vaccinated (and they required everyone to send them proof of vaccination), the school has a pretty new building with newly upgraded ventilation systems, people in this school community are still pretty COVID anxious and so more likely to keep masking and less likely to take insane risks. But still...I don't really see the upside to removing the masks all the same.

[Grifman]

Freedom Convoy rally in DC:

[Smoove_B]

I have locals in my corner of NJ that have been holding "stuff the truck" events every weekend over the last month to send money and supplies to all the truckers that were allegedly attending this protest. I hope they see where all their effort is being shuttled.

[Smoove_B]

Also, I know that everyone knows this already, but for historical purposes:

In a recent memo, Biden's polling firm had some advice for Democrats: Declare victory against Covid and stop talking about restrictions or you'll lose the election.

[Kurth]

Does anyone really think that polling firm is off base with that advice?

Setting aside the question of whether we should let politics get in the way of public health, does anyone believe that focusing on ways to stop the spread and impact of COVID is a national electoral strategy that is going to lead to victory in this country?

[El Guapo]

I hope they see where all their effort is being shuttled.

[Smoove_B]

does anyone believe that focusing on ways to stop the spread and impact of COVID is a national electoral strategy that is going to lead to victory in this country?

Maybe it's because I'm closer to the issue than most, but I think the general public (waves arms around) is grossly underestimating how betrayed many previously voting (D) voters feel right now by the CDC, Biden and the federal government. Groups that are historically marginalized and voted in support of (D) politicians that promised things like universal health care, protections against discrimination on pre-existing conditions - you name it. Well, except for kids under 4 - those little bastards don't vote so f them. This new policy that the feds (states, locals) are now suggesting is somehow in everyone's best interest is actually just saying we don't really care about the millions of people that will be impacted.

Is it a campaign issue? I dunno; probably not - it's not sexy enough. But I'm also confident it's going to be ever present in November - 2022 and 2024.

[Blackhawk]

In a recent memo, Biden's polling firm had some advice for Democrats: Declare victory against Covid and stop talking about restrictions or you'll lose the election.

And to be fair, it might not be so cut and dry if it were a winnable battle. But it isn't - this battle has been lost for a long, long time. Them continuing to fight would have achieved essentially nothing.

[El Guapo]

does anyone believe that focusing on ways to stop the spread and impact of COVID is a national electoral strategy that is going to lead to victory in this country?

Maybe it's because I'm closer to the issue than most, but I think the general public (waves arms around) is grossly underestimating how betrayed many previously voting (D) voters feel right now by the CDC, Biden and the federal government. Groups that are historically marginalized and voted in support of (D) politicians that promised things like universal health care, protections against discrimination on pre-existing conditions - you name it. Well, except for kids under 4 - those little bastards don't vote so f them. This new policy that the feds (states, locals) are now suggesting is somehow in everyone's best interest is actually just saying we don't really care about the millions of people that will be impacted.

Is it a campaign issue? I dunno; probably not - it's not sexy enough. But I'm also confident it's going to be ever present in November - 2022 and 2024.

What's that based on? Honestly I assume that your read of the politics here is largely influenced by the fact that (I gather) you're mostly talking to other health professionals on this, right?

Not that I disagree about what we should be doing on covid, or think that the politics override the policy substance here, but I just haven't seen much evidence to think that covid restrictions are a winning political issue at the moment.

I do think there's a plausible argument that taking a political hit on restrictions in 2022 (when Democrats are probably boned anyway) may be worth it in exchange for a better chance of having a better covid (and general) environment in 2024, though.

[Smoove_B]

What's that based on? Honestly I assume that your read of the politics here is largely influenced by the fact that (I gather) you're mostly talking to other health professionals on this, right?

Right - it's people that work closer to health policy development and implementation - researchers and organizers that are out in the communities gathering data. That's also not counting the health workers that feel betrayed as they're being asked to endure conditions that could be improved if politicians enacted policies that would reduce surges.

If you look at the last big poll I recall seeing in the failing NYT, once you read through it all and get to this:

The polls show that the public is, at best, divided on whether the virus itself is the most significant problem facing the nation. Many surveys show that the economy and inflation are now rated as the most important issue, and only about one-third of Americans say the pandemic is the most serious challenge.

We've created (fostered? encouraged?) a self-fulfilling prophecy here. The pandemic isn't the problem anymore - it's the economy. And inflation. What we really need to do is remove all those masks and restrictions and just get back to work - because that's what will help the economy.

As the wealthier continue to make more money than ever before and we're all asked to endure ~2K a day for who knows how long. Our current national average is where the peak was in September of 2021. Yes, it's trending down from a month ago, but slowly...and it might have plateaued. We're squeezing marginalized people even more now and with all the masking mandates being yoinked this week and next nationally (the major ones that were left), we're just going to pretend this is all over...until the next wave.

I'm not sure it will turn (D) voters into (R) voters by any means. But I do think it could increase voter apathy, which only helps the GOP.

[Max Peck]

Today Ontario dropped all proof-of-vaccination requirements as well as all capacity limits of any sort. Mask mandates are still in place, but they will likely go in a few weeks, and definitely before the upcoming spring election.

Ontario lifts vaccine certificate system, remaining capacity limits in all indoor settings

Starting Tuesday, proof of COVID-19 vaccination is no longer required at most Ontario restaurants, gyms and movie theatres. Nightclubs, sporting and concert venues can get rid of capacity limits and restrictions are also lifting on social gathering sizes.

While Ontario is ending most of its major COVID-19 public health measures, Premier Doug Ford has said mask mandates will likely be in place for at least a couple more weeks.

Patrons outside of an Etobicoke gym expressed relief Tuesday morning for not needing to show their QR code at the door.

"I think it's a good idea. We get in now with everybody. I know [whoever] comes in here has been vaccinated anyway and it just makes life more like what it used to be and more normal. And I just hope we don't have to go back to what we had before," Rich Coles said on Tuesday.

"It's been hard for everybody," he said.

Another gym goer, Arlene Ali, said "it's about time" the province dropped its vaccine system, adding that "people have suffered long enough."

Actually, Rich, now you don't know that everyone there has been vaccinated. And yes, Arlene, the real suffering has been that you needed to pull out your smartphone so the certificate could be scanned at the door.

[Kraken]

The positivity rate in MA is now below 2%. Today I got my first professional haircut in 2.5 years. And winter is almost over. If we get lucky and avoid another variant/surge before summer, we might just enjoy a prolonged respite. Since I have to travel and socialize next week, the timing couldn't be better for me. I'm still taking some masks with me, though.

[Max Peck]

To get a PCR test here you have to be symptomatic and in a designated high-risk category, so I guess it isn't surprising that the community positivity rate is on the high side, although I still don't like the look of that slope.



But we're over it, so

[Defiant]

White House unveils plan for next phase of COVID-19 fight

The White House on Wednesday unveiled a plan for fighting COVID-19 in its new phase, with the virus moving from a crisis to a lower-level risk that does not dominate daily life.

[Smoove_B]

Nothing to see here - just a governor bullying college students into taking their masks off.

NEW: @GovRonDeSantis
annoyed with USF students—"You do not have to wear those masks. Please take them off. Honestly, it's not doing anything. We've gotta stop with this Covid theater. So if you wanna wear it, fine, but this is ridiculous."

[msteelers]

Nothing to see here - just a governor bullying college students into taking their masks off.

There's a lot that DeSantis does that is infuriating. This one made my blood boil.

[LawBeefaroni]

Nothing to see here - just a governor bullying college students into taking their masks off.

There's a lot that DeSantis does that is infuriating. This one made my blood boil.

Bullying kids. Seems on brand.

Really, why does he care a whit what they do? He may as well be shouting at them to cut their long hair or quit wearing dungarees.

[Smoove_B]

Really, why does he care a whit what they do? He may as well be shouting at them to cut their long hair or quit wearing dungarees.

The same reason regular people are opposed to masks. He can't get in front of the podium and pretend like everything is terrific when college kids are standing behind him wearing masks. It's a visible threat to the image he's trying to project. It's a visible conflict to the lie he's trying to convince himself and others of - that we won; it's over.

[msteelers]

Nothing to see here - just a governor bullying college students into taking their masks off.

There's a lot that DeSantis does that is infuriating. This one made my blood boil.

Bullying kids. Seems on brand.

Really, why does he care a whit what they do? He may as well be shouting at them to cut their long hair or quit wearing dungarees.

I get that after years of railing against masks and saying they don't work, that you wouldn't want a wall of college kids behind you wearing masks. But why not have your team handle that before the cameras are rolling? And why attack them like that and get visibly frustrated? He could have easily made a joke about not wearing the masks. "Look who you're talking to. Feel free to take those masks off."

He's a dick throughout the exchange because that's who he is.

[Zaxxon]

Nothing to see here - just a governor bullying college students into taking their masks off.

There's a lot that DeSantis does that is infuriating. This one made my blood boil.

Bullying kids. Seems on brand.

Really, why does he care a whit what they do? He may as well be shouting at them to cut their long hair or quit wearing dungarees.

I get that after years of railing against masks and saying they don't work, that you wouldn't want a wall of college kids behind you wearing masks. But why not have your team handle that before the cameras are rolling? And why attack them like that and get visibly frustrated? He could have easily made a joke about not wearing the masks. "Look who you're talking to. Feel free to take those masks off."

He's a dick throughout the exchange because that's who he is.

Bullying is a positive for the folks who elect the DeSantises of the world.

[Jaymon]

well, I have a new answer for them "republican, go fuck yourself"

[msteelers]

Bullying is a positive for the folks who elect the DeSantises of the world.

I know it is. It gives them permission to do the same thing in their own lives.

[El Guapo]

White House unveils plan for next phase of COVID-19 fight

The White House on Wednesday unveiled a plan for fighting COVID-19 in its new phase, with the virus moving from a crisis to a lower-level risk that does not dominate daily life.

I saw a few dozen Republican senators have already said that they won't authorize new COVID funding unless the administration accounts for how prior money was spent. And I strongly suspect that no accounting will be sufficient.

[malchior]

Florida is only seeing ~200 people per day dying from COVID. Sounds pretty theatrical.

Edit: The real theater here is that he didn't want to be seen on tv with people wearing masks behind him. It's not just bullying. It is about his power. His brand. Hot garbage.

[Octavious]

We seem to be hovering around 2,000 deaths a day. That's only 730,000 people a year. I think "freedom" is totally worth that.

And holy shit that video. That dude 100% believes the BS about the masks not working. That was legit anger and not theatre. We're so f'n screwed if he ever gets into office. And I totally think it's possible. Trump croaks or doesn't run he's next in line. And sadly he actually knows what his is doing.

[malchior]

We seem to be hovering around 2,000 deaths a day. That's only 730,000 people a year. I think "freedom" is totally worth that.

And holy shit that video. That dude 100% believes the BS about the masks not working. That was legit anger and not theatre.

It could be that but I honestly think he was more angry that people were going to be standing behind him in masks. People at his level are always thinking about what that camera shows.

[msteelers]

We seem to be hovering around 2,000 deaths a day. That's only 730,000 people a year. I think "freedom" is totally worth that.

And holy shit that video. That dude 100% believes the BS about the masks not working. That was legit anger and not theatre.

It could be that but I honestly think he was more angry that people were going to be standing behind him in masks. People at his level are always thinking about what that camera shows.

Why not both?

[malchior]

We seem to be hovering around 2,000 deaths a day. That's only 730,000 people a year. I think "freedom" is totally worth that.

And holy shit that video. That dude 100% believes the BS about the masks not working. That was legit anger and not theatre.

It could be that but I honestly think he was more angry that people were going to be standing behind him in masks. People at his level are always thinking about what that camera shows.

Why not both?

Indeed. Could have been.

[Jeff V]

Masks have been working for us. Two years into a pandemic, exposure from friends, classmates, and coworkers (my wife is possibly the only one she knows in the medical field that hasn't come down with Covid at some point -- and she knew a few that died from it). Our kids (8 and 5) are completely aware of this, and going out in public without a mask to them is same as going out naked. I was so proud of them the time went to their favorite playground, they observed how many kids were not wearing masks, and shook their heads and decided they did want to play their after all.

Sadly, their continuing to wear masks isn't going to do anything for their own health -- it's a courtesy to prevent them from possibly spreading anything to anyone else. If everyone isn't wearing masks, then no one is at least a little bit protected.