2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Rumpy »

Right, but I think we're at a tipping point, and surely there can be a compromise? Surely there's part of the market that's aiming towards the other way.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Ok, I did a little deep diving on raytracing since the last time I did was well before the pandemic and I assumed the tech has changed a lot since then.

Apparently not so much.

I also figured out that my erroneous statement about raytracing only being available on NVidia cards was likely due to my previous research years ago: the NVidia implementation is so much better (hardware vs software from what I can tell), that I wasn’t even considering AMD cards. Apparently that still holds true: technically/ on paper AMD’s version CAN do raytracing, but the performance hit of turning it on (especially compared to NVidia) makes it almost unusable (maybe not at very low res monitors or resolutions though, no idea).

I saw a few examples cited showing relative comparisons (in order to get similar performance with raytracing on) and IIRC something like a 6900Xt is roughly equivalent to a 2060.

The consensus seems to be if you want to play games with raytracing on, get an NVidia card.

Apparently the upcoming 4 series cards from NVidia will be the first gen that raytracing won’t cause a huge performance hit when turned on.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Scoop20906 »

I just ordered an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti 8GB GDDR6 PCI from Best Buy for $399. A couple of months ago it would have been sold out immediately. I'm upgrading from a GTX 1070 which I bought 2nd hand from a friend. I'm excited to see what the ray tracing fuss is all about and play Cyberpunk 2077 with it.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Smoove_B »

That's the upgrade I made last year (from an NVidia 970). You're going to love it - the card is fantastic. Huge, huge improvement and Cyberpunk 2077 looked so much different with the new card.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:28 pm That's the upgrade I made last year (from an NVidia 970). You're going to love it - the card is fantastic. Huge, huge improvement and Cyberpunk 2077 looked so much different with the new card.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Smoove_B »

So much different? I swear I'm not a Russian bot. It looks so much better - noticeably different. Yikes. :wink:
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:39 pm So much different? I swear I'm not a Russian bot. It looks so much better - noticeably different. Yikes. :wink:
I got your meaning. LOL.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Rumpy »

Man, those new cards are massive, like a brick. Definitely wouldn't fit in my current computer case. I really think that we might start to see external cards with their own housing and power supply at some point. They've gotten big enough to graduate to becoming their own unit.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by DOS=HIGH »

I don't have a problem with the width, I have 5+ slots available. Length is my issue with a mid-tower and CPU radiator fan mounted on the front, for which there are no other placement options. I can maybe fit a 325mm card, 320mm is probably more realistic. A bigger issue we're heading for is the power limit of receptacles in NA. Most outlets are 15 amps, which can handle 1320 Watts. I don't think they expect people to rewire their house for a PC, so it's just a matter of time for a high-end PC requiring 2 plugs.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Not bad for a 2 slot GPU card.



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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Ok that’s going to be my new card. Wow, had no idea Intel was doing that! Like he said though, hopefully we will actually be able to buy them without shenanigans, lotteries, etc.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:20 am Ok that’s going to be my new card. Wow, had no idea Intel was doing that! Like he said though, hopefully we will actually be able to buy them without shenanigans, lotteries, etc.
Intel had serious problems with their driver quality, so be careful if you want to get it. Make sure to wait for them to fix most of the major issues with their driver before purchasing one.



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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:05 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:20 am Ok that’s going to be my new card. Wow, had no idea Intel was doing that! Like he said though, hopefully we will actually be able to buy them without shenanigans, lotteries, etc.
Intel had serious problems with their driver quality, so be careful if you want to get it. Make sure to wait for them to fix most of the major issues with their driver before purchasing one.
I know you watch this space closely (or you seem to!). What would you recommend if buying today (or let’s say after the release of the highest end Intel)?

The higher end Intel seems to be exactly what I was looking for: robust RTX performance relative to cost.

I would go AMD but for that reason alone.

I’m very much manufacturer agnostic.

Looking at cards under $400 preferably.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:04 am
Victoria Raverna wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 2:05 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:20 am Ok that’s going to be my new card. Wow, had no idea Intel was doing that! Like he said though, hopefully we will actually be able to buy them without shenanigans, lotteries, etc.
Intel had serious problems with their driver quality, so be careful if you want to get it. Make sure to wait for them to fix most of the major issues with their driver before purchasing one.
I know you watch this space closely (or you seem to!). What would you recommend if buying today (or let’s say after the release of the highest end Intel)?

The higher end Intel seems to be exactly what I was looking for: robust RTX performance relative to cost.

I would go AMD but for that reason alone.

I’m very much manufacturer agnostic.

Looking at cards under $400 preferably.
I don't think I'll get Intel GPU. I don't trust Intel to not giving up at some point and decide they don't want to continue to be in GPU business.

NVidia or AMD are the only smart choice at this point. For Intel maybe wait and see if they are going to do this for long term or not.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Man, just watched the videos you posted. Intel a big nope.

But the guy brought up a point that I’m into: you need to buy based on what resolution you play on. Intel does much better at 1440 and above gaming, which is where I’m at. AMD seems to be focused on performing in the 1080p space.

Still the driver issues seem like a nightmare (unless you watch the videos Daehawk posted, in which curiously the guy was practically salivating over how good the card is and drivers rock solid. ???? Something is off for these apparently competent reviewers to come up with such opposite conclusions:
1. Someone’s on the take (never!! :D)
2. MASSIVE difference in driver performance (assuming all the reviewers using different revisions), like night and day (possible)
3. ???

They all three ‘sound’ convincing and seem genuine, but??
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:01 am Man, just watched the videos you posted. Intel a big nope.

But the guy brought up a point that I’m into: you need to buy based on what resolution you play on. Intel does much better at 1440 and above gaming, which is where I’m at. AMD seems to be focused on performing in the 1080p space.

Still the driver issues seem like a nightmare (unless you watch the videos Daehawk posted, in which curiously the guy was practically salivating over how good the card is and drivers rock solid. ???? Something is off for these apparently competent reviewers to come up with such opposite conclusions:
1. Someone’s on the take (never!! :D)
2. MASSIVE difference in driver performance (assuming all the reviewers using different revisions), like night and day (possible)
3. ???

They all three ‘sound’ convincing and seem genuine, but??
The Intel cards are a real mixed bag. They can punch above their weight for new games, but suuuucccckkk for anything old as they have to emulate DX9. The consensus seems to be that the drivers are iffy at best right now. They are really interesting, though, and can be a bargain if you aren't a retro gamer.

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Shame about the driver issues. I'd guess that if they could work on drivers and performance issues, they could be a great contender in the space. It seems like quite a big jump for Intel, which previously only had internal graphics on their boards, which most people only would use as a last resort.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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This wont run on some systems.

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by hitbyambulance »

if you have any interest in stable drivers or playing games even remotely 'old', ARC is not the way to go
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Id say give ARC at least 1 year. I think they will stick around. I cant imagine they'd throw all the tech and money at this and then walk away. Give them time to learn drivers. I would buy them in a year no question. Ive been nvidia for decades. But Im very unhappy with their way of doing thing. If I had money today Id go AMD but a year from now most like Intel. Unless AMD comes out with new stuff. I dont trust Nvidia any longer.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Well that truly sinks ARC for me then…I almost exclusively play older games (not retro though necessarily) bc my backlog is so absurd that I am generally playing stuff from 5-10 years ago.

I do hope they get their shit together wrt software….we could use a third viable option from a consumer standpoint.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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I think they'll stick around for awhile. They can't let ATI/AMD be the only other option against Nvidia.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Victoria Raverna »

Interesting tear-down of Intel A770:


Hard for consumers to maintain or fix but also not efficient or hard for manufacturer to produce.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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This is absurd! It's like its the size of an Xbox360!

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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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AJayz video shows what ive said for years..too damn big..go smaller or go home. The trend is smaller cases, smaller mobos, all small yet here we get a shoebox video card.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Yeah, exactly. It's ridiculous. Not everyone has that kind of space in their cases, let alone slots free. This is why I say, if it continues in that direction, external will be the way to go. And quite honestly, case manufacturers must not be too happy about this new card size. Heck, I even had trouble fitting my 1050Ti into my current case. Even motherboard manufactuerers will have to start offering boards with more slots, hence bigger boards, just to be able to use these monstrosities.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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That is insane. Do not want.

Wonder if AMD’s answer to this series will follow suit?
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Rumpy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:17 pm Yeah, exactly. It's ridiculous. Not everyone has that kind of space in their cases, let alone slots free.
Not just the space, the power requirements! 1000W just to power the card? I get that power requirements have dropped for computers in general (no more media drives, SSDs vs HDDs, etc... but this seems insane.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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I couldn't even fit the donated GTX 970 in my modern mid tower case. I had to dig out my 1999 monstrosity to shove it into.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:36 pm
Rumpy wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 1:17 pm Yeah, exactly. It's ridiculous. Not everyone has that kind of space in their cases, let alone slots free.
Not just the space, the power requirements! 1000W just to power the card? I get that power requirements have dropped for computers in general (no more media drives, SSDs vs HDDs, etc... but this seems insane.
Yeah, forgot about the power. To be fair, it's a whole number of things, and for most people, they're just not realistic options. Nvidia is making everyone, including industries, turn their heads, and not in a good way. And I can see why EVGA likely didn't want to be a party to.

I'm so hoping some of the other manufacturers, whether they're AMD or Intel or others end up yanking Nvidia hard to stop them from going in this direction, to the point that they won't have any choice but to follow the other way. Others have shown that it's possible to still make reasonable cards.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Enlarge Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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:lol:

That's fantastic.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Victoria Raverna »

I think if we wait for second edition of those boards, we'll get smaller version.

I read that the reason for the super big size is because NVidia planned for higher watts GPU.

The current boards are designed to cool GPU with that higher watts.

4090 was supposed to be 600W but the final spec was down to 450W.

The current 4090 boards cooling capacity were designed for 600W GPU.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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And yet, the recommendation with these boards are to have 1000-1200 Watt PSUs. It's pure insanity. With this move, Nvidia proves that it doesn't care about the average consumer. And I can't even imagine the stink the State of California is making given they made a stink over gaming PC power usage awhile back.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Those cards seem to be designed designed the 3%er gamers who can afford to build (or buy) top end PCs from scratch just for the card. Normal people are going to be blown right out of that market. I don't know what they're hoping to achieve. :?
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:56 pm don't know what they're hoping to achieve. :?
Maybe they're just catering to their new customer base?
Given that the RTX 3090 is a monster of mining potential with 125 MH/S hash rates on currency like Ethereum and Expanse, the 4090 is an exciting prospect for miners. The only issue for miners may be the increased power demand of the RTX 4090. Another issue critical to miners is whether the 4090 will incorporate Lite Hash Rate, which limits mining performance. Fortunately, the RTX 3090 doesn’t come equipped with LHR and allows for full mining potential. Speculation is that NVIDIA’s new premium card may also be exempt from LHR considering the high-end price tag.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

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Blackhawk wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:56 pm Those cards seem to be designed designed the 3%er gamers who can afford to build (or buy) top end PCs from scratch just for the card. Normal people are going to be blown right out of that market. I don't know what they're hoping to achieve. :?
Yep, exactly. I really don't know what they're trying to achieve. Guess they're trying to send a message that the average consumer isn't their market anymore. I mean, I'd just like to be able to keep up and have something that isn't outdated. Don't need the bleeding edge, just something comfortably capable, which sounds like the average consumer to me.
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Re: 2022 is truly the second-best year to upgrade your GPU

Post by Blackhawk »

I think Smoove is right. Everything up through the X080 is now the gaming line, and the X090 cards are intended for miners. And good god, people used to complain about the horrendous power usage of crypto farms. Nvidia is happy to ignore the environmental impact of their products if there is enough profit potential.

I suppose that just puts them in line with all of the other corporations.

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