Diablo II: Resurrected

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Sudy
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Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Sudy »



Well... that look amazing. I wasn't expecting that degree of graphical updates.

I do question whether this will have enough under the hood improvements vs. the private servers to make it alluring enough for multiple playthroughs, however. All I've read about at a glance is a shared stash and automatic gold pickup. The $39.99 price tag also seems high, though it's certainly understandable considering the toggleable graphics overhaul, as well as the cinematics being re-done.

I was going to say it's likely missing the kind of endgame expansion Path of Diablo has added with maps, but the reality is that I sunk a couple hundred hours into that earlier this year without ever actually making it that deep into the endgame. The gear grind in D2 is punishing (runes lol), yet people obviously still play. I wonder what will be done to address the botting problem.

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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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This is an instabuy for me. D2 was my favorite ARPG and one of my all-time favorite games as well.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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I'll probably end up getting it too but the price is kind of steep.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Very in! I was expecting a standard remaster with increased resolution, widescreen support, maybe a sparkle or two. This goes well beyond that. Diablo II was probably my favorite title in the genre.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by $iljanus »

With my daughter being recently introduced to the joy of playing Diablo 3 with me on the PS4 I’m looking forward to rounding out her education when this comes out!
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Torfish »

Looking forward to playing this on a console. Switch or PS5 (if I can ever get snag one).
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by hitbyambulance »

they should have done this with the first Diablo
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Darkstar One »

Am I the only one who thinks that the better approach for this would have been a remake...

Diablo II in the Diablo III engine...
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Darkstar One wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:33 pm Am I the only one who thinks that the better approach for this would have been a remake...

Diablo II in the Diablo III engine...
Seems like that’s basically what they’re doing.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by gameoverman »

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Darkstar One wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:33 pm Am I the only one who thinks that the better approach for this would have been a remake...

Diablo II in the Diablo III engine...
Seems like that’s basically what they’re doing.
I agree, when I first watched the trailer I thought their approach was 'let's do the old game in the new engine!' and why not? There are possible downsides to that approach. When I used to make Quake III maps I tried recreating classic Quake maps in it. The problem is things like running speed and jumping distance/height can vary between games. So a map that is perfect in one game can feel 'off' in the other game. Then if you change it to work better now you don't have the classic map anymore.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Hamlet3145 »

I think I'm mostly just happy that I'll be able to use a controller with the remaster. No more carpel tunnel clicking!
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Hrothgar »

This Polygon article makes it sound like sound like it's entirely a graphical overhaul with minimal quality of life improvements.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by gilraen »

You can watch the "Deep Dive" panel discussion from this weekend's Blizzcon and draw your own conclusions:
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Skinypupy »

The level of detail in the environment is absolutely stunning.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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gameoverman wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:58 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Darkstar One wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:33 pm Am I the only one who thinks that the better approach for this would have been a remake...

Diablo II in the Diablo III engine...
Seems like that’s basically what they’re doing.
I agree, when I first watched the trailer I thought their approach was 'let's do the old game in the new engine!' and why not? There are possible downsides to that approach. When I used to make Quake III maps I tried recreating classic Quake maps in it. The problem is things like running speed and jumping distance/height can vary between games. So a map that is perfect in one game can feel 'off' in the other game. Then if you change it to work better now you don't have the classic map anymore.
No, this is using the Diablo 2 engine. It is strictly a remaster with only a couple of QOL improvements (shared stash for example). They wanted people to experience the game play the way they remembered it. Interestingly, there's even a toggle switch so that you can switch to the original 2d sprites if you so choose.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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(Edit: I think I kind of ran off the rails below, but I'm just going to leave it. To summarize, I think retaining the classic experience is ideal, but those rough edges that were the result of the era or poor design choices could stand to be buffed. I think masochism for masochism's sake is stupid.)


I'm glad the engine is being retained, but I wish there were more QOL changes. The shared stash looks ample, but it won't be enough if they don't incoporate gem and rune stacking, IMO. It looks like each character gets their own local tab, and then there are three further shared tabs. But if average players still feel the need to mule, I think it will be insufficient. I think I wound up using about six mules the last time I played. As my knowledge of the game increased, I possibly could have cut that down by half (so the new shared stash would be enough), but it's nice to keep more stuff around "just in case". This isn't D3 where you can get every single legendary in about 15-25 hours of grinding in a new season.

I know I don't shut up about Path of Diablo, and I'm not suggesting everything it and the other private servers/mods do should be implemented. (I don't want to see rebalancing or skill changes... bug fixes that didn't become "features", yes.) But for consideration:

- PoD doubles the size of the character inventory, with the lower half being used for charms. That much room for charms is probably overkill, but it sure makes grinding/treasure hunting more convenient for players who don't instantly know whether a drop is worth holding on to. Making you choose between stat upgrades and not needing to constantly TP seems like an odd design choice.
- You can control-click to move items to the stash or drop them, etc. (Feels like this is something they might add.)
- Arrows/bolts/javelins don't deplete (some purists probably hate this).
- Custom loot filters (so much crap is dropped in this game, and it's an issue when only a certain number of items can display on screen at a time).

Sounds like they're implementing limited warnings so you can't brick a character with a single click (like when I accidentally dumped all my Amazon's skill points into Strength, thinking that the key modifier would instead let me allocate 10 at a time), so that's good.

They mentioned not tweaking the minimap, noting that many players run with the overlay open at all times (I do). But I don't do it because I like it or it's a great system. Honestly, it obscures gameplay half the time. It was just the best of the available options. I don't want quest objectives on the map or anything, but some additional modern interface options would be nice.

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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Watching the trailers without sound, I actually heard the sounds in my head. That's how much I played in years past.

I'm uncertain about picking this up. The original holds a strong place of nostalgia and I don't want to smear modernization all over those memories.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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That makes me wonder if I knew The Phantom Menace was bad, would I have chosen not to see it? I think something would have to review horribly for me to be unwilling to risk tarnishing nostalgia. I think the greater risk is to miss out on revisiting something great. Unless you have no interest in it at all or would rather just continue playing the original, which is understandable.

I think the new art is gorgeous, but I also haven't had a problem playing the original in 2020, outside of obviously needing mods to run full screen, etc.

I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Sudy wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:12 amUnless you have no interest in it at all or would rather just continue playing the original, which is understandable.
It may be, too, that it was a game I played extensively with friends who I'm no longer in contact with and I can't see myself enjoying it alone. I dunno.

I'm just not feeling gripped. Grim Dawn has my ARPG fix pretty well settled.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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When they announced they were remastering StarCraft I was thrilled, but not enough to actually buy it or want to play it lol. Similarly, my best memories of the original are playing with friends I no longer game with. And generally, I have no desire to play a speed-crucial RTS ever again. In that context I think I better understand.

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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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While I'm super excited for this, and I have no doubt it will look fantastic in 4K on a big screen, I have to say as I watched some of the comparison videos I was actually more impressed with how good the original graphics looked after 20 years.

The thing I really like is that they are doing cross progression with consoles, so I can hypothetically play on the Switch on the couch or jump on the PC for the original experience. Unfortunately I suppose this means Blizzard is going to be collecting a ton of money from me yet again.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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rittchard wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:10 pmThe thing I really like is that they are doing cross progression with consoles, so I can hypothetically play on the Switch on the couch or jump on the PC for the original experience. Unfortunately I suppose this means Blizzard is going to be collecting a ton of money from me yet again.
:think:

I hadn't considered it for the Switch. If it's playable, it'd be a game to bulk out my "stable" of hand-picked games that only includes Hands of Fate, Animal Crossing, and Fire Emblem. The experience of playing hand-held would be different enough that I'd probably not feel the absence of old friends.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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After playing D3 on consoles, I'm not really sure I can (or even want) to go back to PC. My recent Grim Dawn experience sort of reinforced that I find the endless carpal tunnel clicking to be a vastly inferior way to play these games.

Really looking forward to playing it on the Switch.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Skinypupy wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:21 pm After playing D3 on consoles, I'm not really sure I can (or even want) to go back to PC. My recent Grim Dawn experience sort of reinforced that I find the endless carpal tunnel clicking to be a vastly inferior way to play these games.

Really looking forward to playing it on the Switch.
Yeah, I've always wished they'd add gamepad settings to the PC version of Diablo III so I could play it from the couch instead, it's not like it's a difficult game or anything. But apparently they just flat out refuse to do that, and the game doesn't have much in the way of mod support. There was a Diablo clone called Revenant which had gamepad support with combos and fatalities and all sorts of craziness, and it was pretty great. I don't know why that game never got a sequel, but it may have had something to do with them taking the "clone" part a little bit too literally.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:37 am Watching the trailers without sound, I actually heard the sounds in my head. That's how much I played in years past.

I'm uncertain about picking this up. The original holds a strong place of nostalgia and I don't want to smear modernization all over those memories.
It's just a graphical update. There's little "modernization" involved at all.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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For those who want enhancements, they've announced that they are going support modding.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by Zaxxon »

Totally in. I liked D3 on Switch a lot, and will definitely reminisce with this one. I, too, would have preferred a lower price point, but who am I kidding? I'm buying.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by hitbyambulance »

Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:09 am
No, this is using the Diablo 2 engine.
given that it's about two decades old (and that it was originally written for Windows 98 and a very ancient Mac OS), seems extremely unlikely. do you have a source for this assertion?

i'm inclined to think it's more or less the Diablo 3 engine
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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I too think it's a D2 engine but that's just because of the wording. If not a D2 engine wouldn't they be calling it D4?
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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dbt1949 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:32 pm I too think it's a D2 engine but that's just because of the wording. If not a D2 engine wouldn't they be calling it D4?
They wouldn't call this game D4 because that's already a thing. That said, it's entirely possible that they're using the D4 engine for this D2 remake. It all seems very unclear at this point.

I'll just stick with "same D2, only prettier" and be perfectly satisfied with that. I don't much care what's under the hood to make that happen. :)
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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It would be a thousand times easier to add Diablo II graphics to a modern 3d engine than to take a 20-year-old engine and rewrite it to support the kind of 3d that the existing modern engine already does, and then add the Diablo II graphics to. It may be running the Diablo II game code underneath (damage, AI, etc), though.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:18 pm
Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:09 am
No, this is using the Diablo 2 engine.
given that it's about two decades old (and that it was originally written for Windows 98 and a very ancient Mac OS), seems extremely unlikely. do you have a source for this assertion?

i'm inclined to think it's more or less the Diablo 3 engine
Almost every article I've read about this has stated that it's the D2 engine. But here it is:

https://www.pcgamer.com/diablo-2-resurr ... a-changes/
The original graphics and game code: You can switch to Diablo 2's classic graphics on the fly and swap the new dynamically lit 3D for the classic 2D sprites. That's because Resurrected is running on that original code.

"The logic of the game and all the sprites and pathing and data of the gear, your drop rates and your hit chance and percentages, and whether or not this monster chooses to bleed because you hit them, is still driven by the old game and it still runs at 25 frames per second," said Gallerani. "So all of your breakpoints for your stats are still also going to be the same as they were. On top of that, however, we have much more granularity with framerate, with directions that we render stuff out, with how lighting works, because it's essentially a 3D engine running atop. Think of it like a marionette: the person pulling the strings is the 2D game. But in this case it's a blockier [puppeteer] and a very lifelike puppet."
Can't be much clearer than this.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Even the original ways you can cheese the original are still there:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021 ... -interview
When it comes to things that could even be perceived as bugs, these are things like, if you stand in this one spot during this one boss fight, the boss can't get to you. It's like, okay, well, yes, that's a bug. I seriously doubt that was what the original creators intended. But it's become such a well-known thing that people can do that we're like, okay, we should keep it. Or even translations, when they were translated to French originally, they were not really a real translation. They just put the word le in front of it. It's like, okay, well, it's probably a poor translation, but at this point for 20 years that magic item in France is known as that thing. So we don't change that.

That's where we would have it. It's really a special case for all of these things. It's been around for so long that it's become part of what the game is.
But when you talk about the feel, that's paramount to us. And so that's why under the hood, all of the logic and the simulation is still being run by sprites. It's still a grid-based game. Hitboxes - so in a modern game, you would probably have your character represented by a capsule, and it would do a collision check because it's 3D. We don't do any of that. Our engine that runs on top is a visual engine. But all of the things of, did this attack hit? Are you standing in the right spot? Did this arrow make it to its target in time? That's still all being run by the original game at the original framerate.

Now, our visuals run decoupled, so we can have 60 frames-per-second of animations, and we can add turnaround animations, everything like that. But once again, that logic and your breakpoints are still going to be driven by what the old game was.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
The graphical engine is new, obviously so, since the game is now 3d, but the underlying gameplay engine is still the same.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:14 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
The graphical engine is new, obviously so, since the game is now 3d, but the underlying gameplay engine is still the same.
So there's the confusion. When most people talking about a video game and use the word 'engine', they're referring to the graphics code, not the mechanics. CryEngine, Unreal Engine, Source, etc.

We were discussing one thing, you were discussing another. Yes, the game mechanics are using the old code.
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

Post by hitbyambulance »

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:14 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
The graphical engine is new, obviously so, since the game is now 3d, but the underlying gameplay engine is still the same.
So there's the confusion. When most people talking about a video game and use the word 'engine', they're referring to the graphics code, not the mechanics. CryEngine, Unreal Engine, Source, etc.

We were discussing one thing, you were discussing another. Yes, the game mechanics are using the old code.
correct.
(e.g. when porting a title, it's taking the original (logic) code and adapting to the software platform it's running on (engine) via the interfaces. so it would be the 'engine' that's being changed, not the 'logic'.)
(e.g. part 2: like Unreal and Unity are commonly referred to as engines - the interface with the hardware is taken care of for you when developing the logic, so the logic can largely remain the same while the engine is already adapted to the various hardware platforms. not trying to be pedantic, but just attempting to furnish examples.)
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:14 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
The graphical engine is new, obviously so, since the game is now 3d, but the underlying gameplay engine is still the same.
So there's the confusion. When most people talking about a video game and use the word 'engine', they're referring to the graphics code, not the mechanics. CryEngine, Unreal Engine, Source, etc.

We were discussing one thing, you were discussing another. Yes, the game mechanics are using the old code.
Then I'm not sure why there was even a question. If we were just talking about a "graphical" engine, why would there be a question as to whether the original "engine" was being used? Obviously, in going from 2d to 3d the same "engine" isn't being used. I would think that was obvious, right? :)

It was suggested that the D3 engine was probably being used. I don't think that implied just D3 graphics "engine" but all that came with D3 - just porting D2 to D3. My point is that this was not happening, the underlying game engine was still the same - obviously the graphic "engine" was different. That was my point because it was obvious that the graphics were different :)
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Re: Diablo II: Resurrected

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Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:17 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:19 pm
Grifman wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:14 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:10 pm I agree. They're saying it is a new engine that's getting it's directions (where to put things, how to calculate things, etc) from the old engine, which is also running but hidden.
The graphical engine is new, obviously so, since the game is now 3d, but the underlying gameplay engine is still the same.
So there's the confusion. When most people talking about a video game and use the word 'engine', they're referring to the graphics code, not the mechanics. CryEngine, Unreal Engine, Source, etc.

We were discussing one thing, you were discussing another. Yes, the game mechanics are using the old code.
Then I'm not sure why there was even a question. If we were just talking about a "graphical" engine, why would there be a question as to whether the original "engine" was being used? Obviously, in going from 2d to 3d the same "engine" isn't being used. I would think that was obvious, right? :)

It was suggested that the D3 engine was probably being used. I don't think that implied just D3 graphics "engine" but all that came with D3 - just porting D2 to D3. My point is that this was not happening, the underlying game engine was still the same - obviously the graphic "engine" was different. That was my point because it was obvious that the graphics were different :)
because it would be suuuuper unlikely that the entire D2 codebase had been overhauled to support 3D rendering, along with the tons of other necessary updates - which is what 'No, this is using the Diablo 2 engine.' implies.

so no, that is not the case here. how much has the original codebase been modified? we don't know. it definitely has not had the graphics rendering changed - BUT it's like the old code base is wearing an exoskeleton wrapper, to oversimplify this. and the old graphical rendering is also still being used? semantics aside, it's an interesting idea, kind of a hybrid nailing together. it's a solution that's only possible through the power of today's CPUs and GPUs.
Last edited by hitbyambulance on Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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