Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

[LawBeefaroni]

Is he talking about police?

I'm sure he expects a fair amount of police to support this but it isn't what he is talking about. The police have a huge problem with white supremacists and fascist bullies. In any case he is talking to a wide audience about planning because he knows the Democrats are likely to lose in 2022 at the least. And they are preparing for 2024. It is straight up fascist talk. This is Germany early 1930s type rhetoric.

Edit: Some background on what he is talking about there. He had a big meeting yesterday with GOP insiders including several Trump administration officials. He is spearheading groups who have Trump administration experience and will have plans ready to go day one to start tearing down our democracy. He calls it breaking up the administrative state but let's be clear. This is in the open planning for the end of our democracy. And people shrug at it at their own peril.

They're identifying candidates for all levels of non-elected government jobs and will have them in the roles ASAP. They feel they wasted too much time on this last go-round. Which they did, especially with Trump making a lot of the decisions that had to be fixed. They will have a veted, loyalist slate all ready to install on inauguration day. And legal precedent and process be damned. That will be the takeover. Not fighting in the streets. Fighting in the streets will be the mop-up action.

[Carpet_pissr]

I wonder if anyone inside the WH is even following this? Surely they are.

Not sure what they can do, but with the resources they have, both politically and in terms of manpower....you have to think they at least are AWARE of what is being prepped for and planned, etc. Right? RIGHT?!?!?

[malchior]

I wonder if anyone inside the WH is even following this? Surely they are.

Not sure what they can do, but with the resources they have, both politically and in terms of manpower....you have to think they at least are AWARE of what is being prepped for and planned, etc. Right? RIGHT?!?!?

Too busy minimizing everything or tut tutting it as we speak.

[Carpet_pissr]

I wonder if anyone inside the WH is even following this? Surely they are.

Not sure what they can do, but with the resources they have, both politically and in terms of manpower....you have to think they at least are AWARE of what is being prepped for and planned, etc. Right? RIGHT?!?!?

Too busy minimizing everything or tut tutting it as we speak.

Or.....OR....stay with me here...they are 4-D chessing it...they have been WELL aware since Day 1 about this ground effort that seems to be gaining momentum. They even had an effective counter-strategy in place before the election, and have been executing it in the background, SILENTLY, so as not to show their hand.

That's what I am going to choose to believe until I get pressed into wearing a brown uni with a smart looking tie and a hideously out of place MAGA trucker's hat.

[malchior]

Or.....OR....stay with me here...they are 4-D chessing it...they have been WELL aware since Day 1 about this ground effort that seems to be gaining momentum. They even had an effective counter-strategy in place before the election, and have been executing it in the background, SILENTLY, so as not to show their hand.

This phraseology is one of my favorites. I've yet to see a single 4-d strategy play out.

[malchior]

Just unbelievably absurd.

A federal judge said Friday that he believes the Justice Department hasn't been "even-handed" with President Donald Trump supporters who stormed the US Capitol on January 6, suggesting that they've been treated more harshly than the rioters in last year's racial unrest.

"The US Attorney's Office would have more credibility if it was even-handed in its concern about riots and mobs in the city," District Judge Trevor McFadden said at a sentencing hearing for one of the Capitol rioters, citing year-old complaints from DC Mayor Muriel Bowser that the Justice Department was reluctant to charge rioters in the city after George Floyd's murder.

McFadden, who was appointed by Trump, invoked last year's civil unrest while sentencing Danielle Doyle, a former employee of the Oklahoma City Thunder basketball team who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for unlawfully protesting at the Capitol.

"You were acting like those looters and rioters who attacked our city last year," McFadden said, noting that some buildings were boarded up for months in Washington. "... You participated in a shameful event, a national embarrassment that, like last year's riots, made us feel less safe and less confident that our country could be governed by democratic values and not mob rule."

[Carpet_pissr]

This is why we're fucked. It's death by a thousand cuts. It's partly why even controlling (?!) the WH and the Senate seems powerless, when it shouldn't (yes, I am painfully aware that D's control the Senate by a very narrow margin). The Trump appointees and supporters seem to be EVERYwhere, just at the right time and place to put a finger in the proverbial eye.

I have always kind of grimaced when I see someone here post about how the Trump support is so small, but mighty, and pissed off that they seem to have an outsized voice for their size, etc. How they will "age out", or how some welcome a general election with Trump on the ticket (this one REALLY kills me!) I suspect that their numbers are far larger than many think. Perhaps we should be trying to work with that in mind even if it's not factually accurate, but just in CASE it is.

[YellowKing]

The problem is that the fringe element of the Republican party is driving the car and has dragged everyone else along for the ride. I don't think most Republicans are as far-right as the Trump cult; but by the same token if their choice is drink the Kool-Aid or vote for a Democrat, they're reaching for a glass.

Unfortunately the end result is the same. Whether someone supports Trump or not from a political/moral perspective, if they're always going to vote for him (or his ilk) because they feel they have no other choice, then yep, we're fucked.

[malchior]

It's not just Republicans though. Society itself is becoming more absurd and decadent overall. The GOP is just far, far better at creating and benefiting from the chaos they cause or encounter. They excel at tactical politics whereas the Democrats are just hopeless at that game. Though to be fair there is no strategy that can deal with someone chaotic neutral such as Sinema.

[Carpet_pissr]

She’s the Democratic Loki.

[Isgrimnur]

Texas

A Texas man who joined the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan 6. was sentenced Monday to 45 days behind bars, even though prosecutors weren't seeking jail time, after the judge blasted comparisons between the riot that day and the Black Lives Matter protests over racial injustice.

U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan called it a false equivalence "to compare the actions of people protesting, mostly peacefully, for civil rights" to the mob that "was trying to overthrow the government." She said doing so "ignores the very real danger that the Jan. 6 riots pose to the foundation of our democracy."

[Skinypupy]

As expected, they're just gonna ignore the subpoenas.

We are a very unserious country.

[malchior]

I love that a Trump campaign person is telling their lawyers what to do. You know this guy who hangs people out to dry. Stay loyal!

In any case, the ball will soon be firmly in the DOJ's court. They've been saying they are going to be serious about enforcing these subpoenas. I'm not going to hold my breath. The DOJ seems to be a paper tiger when it comes to anything with a whiff of politics to it.

[LordMortis]

As expected, they're just gonna ignore the subpoenas.

We are a very unserious country.

The, Trump, The?

[Archinerd]

In any case, the ball will soon be firmly in the DOJ's court. They've been saying they are going to be serious about enforcing these subpoenas. I'm not going to hold my breath. The DOJ seems to be a paper tiger when it comes to anything with a whiff of politics to it.

Whether they do or not, there is more trouble ahead.

[malchior]

Interesting developments this afternoon on the 1/6 front. Bannon said he'd hide behind executive privilege today which doesn't even pass a hint of a laugh test. The 1/6 committee released a statement saying that Meadows and Patel are 'engaging' and they said they would 'swiftly consider' a criminal contempt referral. Whatever that means. It is pretty loose but we knew they'd have to go to the DOJ so not all that unexpected.

Still Rick Wilson of the Lincoln Project tweeted out a thread saying he made some calls to contacts and came to believe that the committee was functionally dead. He pilloried what he thought was a weak reaction to lawlessness. I posted some of the thread below but the ;tldr is he seemed to come to believe he had some level of inside knowledge on actual proceedings and tore the arguments and rationales against quick decisive action apart. This managed to get an official response from the chair of the committee saying it was nonsense (last tweet below).

IMO it is interesting to see this level of reaction since it wasn't just Rick. The statement was indeed a little bit tepid and I'd fall back to my usual thoughts of why weren't they prepared for this appropriately. They had to know at least some of them were going to blow off the subpoena. Why weren't they prepared with stronger language or actual action? In any case, this feels like jumping the gun a bit. However, this reaction says a lot to me. Power players or people with the ear's of the powerful are seemingly losing patience with the political class and their dithering. Another example is we see Glenn Kirschner day after day harping on the DOJ for a lack of Trump-land legal action.

We'll see but for now I'm leaning towards being sympathetic to Rick. These guys have lacked any sort of urgency all year. They are constantly one or more steps behind the bad actors. Maybe he was kicking them in the seat of the pants to get a reaction. If so, good for him. Time is running out.

[Isgrimnur]

NBC News

The White House on Friday formally blocked an attempt by former President Donald Trump to withhold documents from Congress related to the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, setting up a legal showdown between the current and former presidents over executive privilege.

In a letter to the National Archives obtained by NBC News, White House Counsel Dana Remus rejected an attempt by Trump’s attorneys to withhold documents requested by the House Select Committee regarding the then-president’s activities on Jan. 6, writing that “President Biden has determined that an assertion of executive privilege is not in the best interests of the United States, and therefore is not justified as to any of the documents.”

[Holman]

Interesting developments this afternoon on the 1/6 front. [...]

Didn't Cheney come out later this afternoon and confirm that the committee is moving forward with subpoenas?

[Jaymann]

Apparently they are using the shotgun approach.

[malchior]

Interesting developments this afternoon on the 1/6 front. [...]

Didn't Cheney come out later this afternoon and confirm that the committee is moving forward with subpoenas?

Yep. That's sort of what I'm getting after. A lot of people are justifiably skeptical.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, so am I. It seems to me like no one wants to actually be the group that's responsible for enforcing the subpoena because of the circus it will turn into.

[Kurth]

I’ll probably be disappointed, but I’m hopeful that Liz Cheney isn’t fucking around. She just doesn’t strike me as the fuck around type.

Seems to me she’s crossed the rubicon on this. Why back down now? Why wouldn’t she go full bore at this bullshit.

[malchior]

I'd get that if she was 'dictator' of the committee. She is a voting member. What we've seen over and over is a system in breakdown that has led to impunity and elite unaccountability. This situation and the apparent lack of preparation for the inevitable outcome is just another example how many are just incredibly disappointed in the leadership of the Democrats in the House.

For 2 years, Trump officials blew off subpoenas or invitations for even routine oversight. The House did nothing to even try to address that attack on our democracy. They haven't passed the Ted Lieu sponsored rule change to allow the issuance of civil fines or use inherent contempt powers. They are still reliant on a DOJ which has been hollowed out and looks impotent. So the Democrats control most of the important levers now and what do we see? Bannon is so unafraid of the law that he thumbs his nose at them. Their reaction is to announce they are 'swiftly considering' what to do. The lawless "Bannons" aren't scared at all. They act this way because they are calculating that the Democrats are just THAT WEAK. And so far that has been a good bet.

And it just keeps coming down to empty promises. We keep hearing that justice is slow. We should trust in our institutions. Garland/Biden/Pelosi/individual x/y/z have a plan. Many of us have had enough of that line. Justice delayed is justice denied as well. And we're desperate for a hint of some justice.

Edit: And to the Rick Wilson thing - several people think he's right. Unless Congress uses inherent contempt they invite a multi-year legal fight even if the DOJ takes the referral. Unfortunately the House leadership is scared of their shadows on inherent contempt and are actively disinterested in it. What could very well happen is this subpoena sits out there unexercised as a sad reminder that the thugs win in this system. Protests by Liz Cheney or the committee aside.

[Isgrimnur]

CNN

Former Trump aide Dan Scavino has been served a subpoena from the House select committee investigating the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, a source familiar with the matter told CNN, bringing an end to the panel's struggle to physically locate him.

A process server brought the subpoena to former President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida on Friday, the source said. While Scavino was home in New York at the time, he asked a staff member to accept the subpoena on his behalf.

In its letter to Scavino, the committee outlined that, because of his close proximity and long history of working with the former President, he can provide useful information regarding conversations Trump had on January 5 about trying to convince members of Congress to not certify the election, the former President's movements on January 6, and the broader communication strategy the White House had in the lead up to the January 6 rally.

The source said that Scavino would review the subpoena with his attorneys early next week to determine next steps.

[Remus West]

Are his lawyers going to help him choose between “I’m not going to show” and open laughter?

[malchior]

[Smoove_B]

The longer the subpoenas go unenforced...

In other news, it would seem there's a pattern developing and some have noticed:

Judge in sentencing hearing in *misdemeanor* Jan 6 case. Big warning flag:

“It’s become evident to me in the riot cases, many of the defendants who are pleading guilty are not truly accepting responsibility. They seem to trying to get this out of the way as quickly as possible”

If only there was some way to send a clear message that this is all very, very serious.

[malchior]

FWIW Schiff is talking tough about the subpoena issue. Spoiler - it isn't much more than empty talk. Bannon blew the deadline on providing documents last week and has indicated he won't show. They have scheduled depositions late this week. Bannon is one of them. If he doesn't show, then they will refer it out to DOJ. That's the plan for all intents and purposes. A plan that is a plan to fail. Notice how he is trying to sell the referral to the DOJ as the victory here? That's because that's all that is going to happen. He is probably setting expectations.

Why? It sets up a slow motion process that will may end up with some action but there is a real chance they'll just run out of time and moot out in the next Congress. First, the DOJ will or will not pick that ball up. That may take some time. We will see how long it takes them to act. Still even then it'll have to go to the courts. We'll like see that play out in slow motion as they argue this nonsense executive privilege line up through SCOTUS perhaps before even getting to the merits. I'll handicap that's not 100% they only way this will go. It can go better or worse but that seems to be the likely path right now.

[malchior]

Well they've swift considered Bannon's non-compliance and will convene on Tuesday to vote to write a report to refer it out to the DOJ.

By the way here is the process:

Committee votes to create report
Committee writes a report of non-compliance
Committee adopts contempt report
They then present it to the entire house for vote
The Speaker certifies it and sends it to US Atty for DC
Then the DOJ decides how to proceed but may present it to a seated Grand Jury

Bannon has to be laughing out loud right now.

Edit: Twitter is in an outrage that the vote will be on Tuesday. I mean they've shown no urgency at all and this is no different. However, the idea that Marshal's will swoop in and arrest Bannon was always a fantasy. This process is going to be ridiculously slow no matter what. No one of any means is scared by this. It's plainly absurd that they've essentially tied a hand behind their back in the face of the threat. Whatever. We're fucked.

[Holman]

[Unagi]

By the way here is the process:

Committee votes to create report
Committee writes a report of non-compliance
Committee adopts contempt report
They then present it to the entire house for vote
The Speaker certifies it and sends it to US Atty for DC
Then the DOJ decides how to proceed but may present it to a seated Grand Jury

Bannon has to be laughing out loud right now.

I mean, while a lot of those steps should be done in an afternoon, and instead they will take weeks...

That being said, I’m not sure what part of that process you are saying shouldn’t be part of the process.

[Skinypupy]

I understand the frustration at taking so long, but simply tossing the established process aside seems like it would cause far more problems than it would solve. From both a legal and practical sense.

I mean, I suppose we could just simply ignore all established protocols and send in US Marshalls to drag Bannon out by his disgusting hair, but that would ultimately just delay things even further, would it not?

[Kraken]

The closer to next November this all crests, the better.

[malchior]

By the way here is the process:

Committee votes to create report
Committee writes a report of non-compliance
Committee adopts contempt report
They then present it to the entire house for vote
The Speaker certifies it and sends it to US Atty for DC
Then the DOJ decides how to proceed but may present it to a seated Grand Jury

Bannon has to be laughing out loud right now.

I mean, while a lot of those steps should be done in an afternoon, and instead they will take weeks...

That being said, I’m not sure what part of that process you are saying shouldn’t be part of the process.

No problem with the process per se. More what we are seeing is that overall our processes are ultimately proving out that what we have is simply insufficient to protect our democracy. It is dying. Bannon is laughing because he knows no matter what - he wins. In long drawn out battles or abbreviated fights, the attackers of our democracy keep showing us over and over they have the edge.

That is what I see here. There is no effort to streamline any of this work, to treat any of this with the urgency it deserves, or otherwise confront the disaster racing towards us. They are just going through the motions and it is utterly predictable. Many face real darkness and these utterly useless politicians don't even pretend to care because they face no real risk to themselves.

[Carpet_pissr]

They have scheduled a meeting to consider the act of writing a sternly worded letter.

Watch out, Bannon!

Seriously though, I do appreciate the need to do things by the book (which means intentionally and deliberately slow) ESPECIALLY here.

That’s one of the things that made this country great, and weak at the same time, though. A Russia or China would have already judged and meted out punishment long ago. Hell, even an Italy would have moved long ago.

But we are not they, and a solid and (relatively) consistent rule of law was our hallmark, and probably also our undoing.

Move too quickly or early, and it’s too easy to get things wrong and make rash, politically motivated arrests. Bad.

Move too slowly, and The Joker with a live grenade in his hand, blows the place up. Bad.

The struggle of this juggling act was real.

[Smoove_B]

I think to malchior's point, from top to bottom (or I guess local to federal) you have one group that is going by the rules and following everything to the letter (which to be clear, is laudable), but the other group is doing everything they can manipulate the system and exploiting the rules/processes that they helped create.

I'm not saying the first group should be doing underhanded illegal things to deal with the second group, but at some point perhaps recognize what's happening and respond accordingly.

[Carpet_pissr]

We need a Batman.

Chaotic good ex-judicial meter out of justice.

[malchior]

I think to malchior's point, from top to bottom (or I guess local to federal) you have one group that is going by the rules and following everything to the letter (which to be clear, is laudable), but the other group is doing everything they can manipulate the system and exploiting the rules/processes that they helped create.

They aren't just exploiting. They are committing crimes and the Democrats seem to be unable to you know...deal with that.

I'm not saying the first group should be doing underhanded illegal things to deal with the second group, but at some point perhaps recognize what's happening and respond accordingly.

The rot is so deep that elite impunity is being thrown in our faces. Bannon is saying out loud, "The elite are above your system. I shouldn't be able to get away with this. But I will." He has been a core player in this plan to exploit populist unrest to create a fascist, kleptocracy. And they can taste it. The Democrats have no real answer to this threat.

[Zaxxon]

No problem with the process per se. More what we are seeing is that overall our processes are ultimately proving out that what we have is simply insufficient to protect our democracy. It is dying.

Yup.

The thing happened on 1/6/21. Democratic control of the Senate and Presidency happened on 1/20.

A committe to investigate was created on 7/1/2021. 162 days after D control of the government, to create a committee to begin investigation of a serious attack on the country's governance. Nearly 6 months wasted in a doomed-from-the-start effort to not appear any more partisan than necessary.

First subpoenas 9/23. 84 more days, 246 in total.

First hearings including subpoenaed individuals who declined to just comply of their own volition? TBD. 2022?

Yes, process is important. So is actually completing the process well before the 2022 election. As others have said, the issue isn't that processes are being followed, it's that a) those processes are not sufficient for such an urgent threat, and b) there's so much wasted time outside of the processes themselves as to make the whole thing somewhat charade-like.

It's true that investigations take time, and that 9 pregnant women can't produce a baby in 1 month. But recall that the whole thing--from a march on the Capitol to Stop the Steal to dismantling election-integrity confidence for 2022/2024--was telegraphed well before the 2020 election. The clock's been ticking for well over a year, and the only people seemingly working to take the whole thing seriously with a sense of urgency each and every day are the ones working to perpetuate the takedown of democracy.

This timeline for the investigation would be one thing, and maybe even an acceptable thing, if during the intervening months we had shored up the foundations of the system by passing voting rights legislation, nuking/tempering the filibuster, etc. But that's also been a big bag of fail.

We remain utterly fucked.

[Kurth]

I think to malchior's point, from top to bottom (or I guess local to federal) you have one group that is going by the rules and following everything to the letter (which to be clear, is laudable), but the other group is doing everything they can manipulate the system and exploiting the rules/processes that they helped create.

I'm not saying the first group should be doing underhanded illegal things to deal with the second group, but at some point perhaps recognize what's happening and respond accordingly.

That’s all well and good, Smoove, but what does it mean to recognize and then “respond accordingly?” If you believe in the fundamental pillars of law and due process, how are you supposed to respond accordingly to an adversary who is actively working to undermine those pillars?