Capitol Riot Investigation Thread

[Smoove_B]

An important point

This is a point I've made before but since I just said it on @AriMelber I'll make it again: The *reason* the insurrectionists looked for the electoral ballot boxes is because if they had gotten them it would have broken chain of custody and thrown the whole election in disarray, The fake electoral ballots are there *so they could argue* that there was a "dispute" in the electoral college, which there would have been had the ballots been stolen even for a little bit. Then *Republican* state legislatures could have sent the fraudulent electors. The reason why I've ALWAYS SAID that the coup was not just a rando protest which went too far is that these people had a plan, knew where to go, knew what to look for, and that plan *magically* coordinated with what the Trump people were trying to do with fraudulent electors.

[Alefroth]

Let's remember these heroes-

https://19thnews.org/2021/01/the-women- ... e-capitol/

[Carpet_pissr]

Let's remember these heroes-

https://19thnews.org/2021/01/the-women- ... e-capitol/

Yeah, they definitely need to be highlighted more. Primarily the aide that directed them, but also them of course.

[Grifman]

This is a point I've made before but since I just said it on @AriMelber I'll make it again: The *reason* the insurrectionists looked for the electoral ballot boxes is because if they had gotten them it would have broken chain of custody and thrown the whole election in disarray, The fake electoral ballots are there *so they could argue* that there was a "dispute" in the electoral college, which there would have been had the ballots been stolen even for a little bit. Then *Republican* state legislatures could have sent the fraudulent electors. The reason why I've ALWAYS SAID that the coup was not just a rando protest which went too far is that these people had a plan, knew where to go, knew what to look for, and that plan *magically* coordinated with what the Trump people were trying to do with fraudulent electors.

Both the National Archives and the individual states have copies of the EC vote certificates, so this is less significant than this person supposes. All Congress would need to do is send someone over to the archives to get new copies.

[Jaymann]

This is a point I've made before but since I just said it on @AriMelber I'll make it again: The *reason* the insurrectionists looked for the electoral ballot boxes is because if they had gotten them it would have broken chain of custody and thrown the whole election in disarray, The fake electoral ballots are there *so they could argue* that there was a "dispute" in the electoral college, which there would have been had the ballots been stolen even for a little bit. Then *Republican* state legislatures could have sent the fraudulent electors. The reason why I've ALWAYS SAID that the coup was not just a rando protest which went too far is that these people had a plan, knew where to go, knew what to look for, and that plan *magically* coordinated with what the Trump people were trying to do with fraudulent electors.

Both the National Archives and the individual states have copies of the EC vote certificates, so this is less significant than this person supposes. All Congress would need to do is send someone over to the archives to get new copies.

You were expecting Florida Man to have a well thought out coup?

[Isgrimnur]

It's also in Alefroth's article.

The boxes don’t hold the only certified electoral votes — other copies are held by state governors, the National Archives and the Federal Registrar, which has digital copies — but they are the physical copies of the certificates that could allow for the process to continue on time and as planned.

[Jaymann]

It's also in Alefroth's article.

The boxes don’t hold the only certified electoral votes — other copies are held by state governors, the National Archives and the Federal Registrar, which has digital copies — but they are the physical copies of the certificates that could allow for the process to continue on time and as planned.

So what would have happened if Pence had a psychotic break?

[malchior]

Trump pretty much kicked off his 2024 race last night. Caged in hypothetical "if I run" type shenanigans but unmistakably one of his rambly campaign events.

[Blackhawk]

He's not President yet, right? So death wishes out loud are frowned up on, but not instant prison?

[Smoove_B]

If only Congress barred him from running for public office. Instead we now have someone not only threatening violence but then promising to pardon anyone that has been prosecuted for it after he's elected again. It seems like that could get out of control real quick. I'm sure we'll respond properly.

[Blackhawk]

I think, if he wins, I check out of politics. I stop staying current on the news. I know, that's the wrong solution, but my stress levels were so high last time that I ended up being a miserable, angry asshole by the end.

[Kraken]

I think, if he wins, I check out of politics. I stop staying current on the news. I know, that's the wrong solution, but my stress levels were so high last time that I ended up being a miserable, angry asshole by the end.

I still haven't broken my doomscrolling habit, and I only recently recovered enough attention span to start playing old, familiar games again.

[Alefroth]

Trump pretty much kicked off his 2024 race last night. Caged in hypothetical "if I run" type shenanigans but unmistakably one of his rambly campaign events.

Also called James and Bragg Jr. racists and mentally sick and encouraged yuge protests if they did anything wrong or illegal.

[Daehawk]

Maybe he'll croak before then. Why evil shits live so long and good people die young I dont understand .

[LawBeefaroni]

This is a point I've made before but since I just said it on @AriMelber I'll make it again: The *reason* the insurrectionists looked for the electoral ballot boxes is because if they had gotten them it would have broken chain of custody and thrown the whole election in disarray, The fake electoral ballots are there *so they could argue* that there was a "dispute" in the electoral college, which there would have been had the ballots been stolen even for a little bit. Then *Republican* state legislatures could have sent the fraudulent electors. The reason why I've ALWAYS SAID that the coup was not just a rando protest which went too far is that these people had a plan, knew where to go, knew what to look for, and that plan *magically* coordinated with what the Trump people were trying to do with fraudulent electors.

Both the National Archives and the individual states have copies of the EC vote certificates, so this is less significant than this person supposes. All Congress would need to do is send someone over to the archives to get new copies.

Yeah, it saved time and some headaches but not total disarray as the tweet suggests.

[Smoove_B]

I dunno. I mean, no one knows exactly what would have happened, but it would have injected chaos. As she stated, once you disrupt that chain of custody now you have the leverage to argue all kinds of things. Sure, they have copies elsewhere but when the deep state is setting up a corrupt election, of course they have copies of the fake certificates filed elsewhere. That only proves how big the problem is and how far the Democrats will go to to get their corrupt candidate elected.

Anyway, the point to all this was to insert chaos and i think in that respect, it would have worked.

[Kurth]

I think, if he wins, I check out of politics. I stop staying current on the news. I know, that's the wrong solution, but my stress levels were so high last time that I ended up being a miserable, angry asshole by the end.

I still haven't broken my doomscrolling habit, and I only recently recovered enough attention span to start playing old, familiar games again.

I think if he wins, we're way past checking out or doomscrolling. This country is going to come apart at the seems if Trump wins. The reactionary right is going to find out that the radical left aren't the patsies they love to caricature.

[malchior]

It'd be a huge disaster domestically and internationally. We'll likely see violence and further decline in rule of law (for ordinary people) here. We'll see our partners freak out. It'll be the end of America as we knew it - though I tend to see us as a chicken with its head cut off anyway. This would be confirmation.

[Kurth]

In my mind, reelecting Trump after what went down January 6 would basically be the same as electing Chancellor Palpatine after he already revealed he was the Darth Sidious. Even worse, it would be like if Sidious botched the first attempt to execute Order 66 and the powers that be basically said, that's ok, you can have a do-over.

[Carpet_pissr]

Just anecdotally, and as recently as today, I am hearing a lot of "chatter" that was not present say 2 years ago.

At first, I was just overhearing bits of conversations, almost always between two strangers at the store or whatnot, so I wasn't sure what I was hearing. But today, I heard an entire exchange, and it wasn't pretty.

This was in a liquor store, and a guy checking out was talking to the middle aged lady behind the counter. Guy was also middle aged, both white whatever that's worth. As he's checking out I hear him increase volume, and start getting riled up (NOT from something the lady said, he was self...stimulating). Complaining about how the idiots in charge went to Harvard and think they can do anything they want. "Well *I* graduated from the Navy and I know how to SHOOT"

This is one example of MANY that I have increasingly heard. And it's not "lower class" bumpkins driving around with "Don't Tread on Me!" flags in trucks with gun racks and antlers on the front (though there are some of those as well). Many of these exchanges are with clean cut, well-spoken people. My own Dad is one of these people. There's a simmering rage JUST underneath that is just a hair away from being triggered.

I really think the steady diet they are consuming at Fox News and the like, plus the absurd number of conservative talk radio shows, and finally the absolute shitstorm of conservative junk mail that is being distributed is doing a lot more than "firing up the base" to vote. I think we are past that, and a lot of these people are on the verge of exploding.

Of course you have to consider the geography of where I live, so YMMV.

[Jaymann]

There is a lot of seething rage going on in this country, both below and above the surface. There was much of that coming from the left back during the Nixon era. Can you imagine what would have happened if the left had stormed the Capitol back then. It would have been the biggest bloodbath on American soil since the Civil War. The present day Army of Snowflakes are born of too much privilege, not social inequity.

[malchior]

I also think it has a lot to do with elite inculpability. When you see the powerful breaking the rules it corrodes trust in the government. Additionally we are at a point where lawlessness is seen as justified because of perceived injustices. It's a feedback loop which is breaking our nation. We're seeing trust in the government at extremely low levels across the board. It's a real mess.

[Zarathud]

The GOP has undermined government authority and cultivated this harvest for years.

[Skinypupy]

Good news everyone! The GOP has done their own investigation (because the meanies on the Jan 6 Committee wouldn't let loons like Jim Jordan play), and have determined that the cause of the Jan 6 riot was..."Capital Police negligence".

Ya, rly.

Can't wait to see how the "Back the Blue...unless we need a scapegoat, then blame everything on them" strategy plays out.

[Jaymann]

Good news everyone! The GOP has done their own investigation (because the meanies on the Jan 6 Committee wouldn't let loons like Jim Jordan play), and have determined that the cause of the Jan 6 riot was..."Capital Police negligence".

Ya, rly.

Can't wait to see how the "Back the Blue...unless we need a scapegoat, then blame everything on them" strategy plays out.

That may actually help when Insurrection II rolls around. Cops don't like being dissed.

[El Guapo]

Good news everyone! The GOP has done their own investigation (because the meanies on the Jan 6 Committee wouldn't let loons like Jim Jordan play), and have determined that the cause of the Jan 6 riot was..."Capital Police negligence".

Ya, rly.

Can't wait to see how the "Back the Blue...unless we need a scapegoat, then blame everything on them" strategy plays out.

That may actually help when Insurrection II rolls around. Cops don't like being dissed.

You would think, but I'm not so sure. The whole January 6th thing might help with regards to the Capitol Police specifically, but I doubt it will make a difference with any other police force.

[LawBeefaroni]

Good news everyone! The GOP has done their own investigation (because the meanies on the Jan 6 Committee wouldn't let loons like Jim Jordan play), and have determined that the cause of the Jan 6 riot was..."Capital Police negligence".

Ya, rly.

Can't wait to see how the "Back the Blue...unless we need a scapegoat, then blame everything on them" strategy plays out.

That may actually help when Insurrection II rolls around. Cops don't like being dissed.

You would think, but I'm not so sure. The whole January 6th thing might help with regards to the Capitol Police specifically, but I doubt it will make a difference with any other police force.

We saw how much bullshit the "back the blue" thing was when guys with blue line flag patches were beating on Capitol Police. It's just another co-opted movement. Used when it suits you, discarded when it doesn't.

Those Capitol Police officers were hung out to dry the day of and ever since.

I certainly hope that Steve Scalise had no part of that nonsense investigation.

[Carpet_pissr]

Good news everyone! The GOP has done their own investigation (because the meanies on the Jan 6 Committee wouldn't let loons like Jim Jordan play), and have determined that the cause of the Jan 6 riot was..."Capital Police negligence".

Ya, rly.

Can't wait to see how the "Back the Blue...unless we need a scapegoat, then blame everything on them" strategy plays out.

That may actually help when Insurrection II rolls around. Cops don't like being dissed.

You would think, but I'm not so sure. The whole January 6th thing might help with regards to the Capitol Police specifically, but I doubt it will make a difference with any other police force.

This, 1,000x this.

I think the narrative is very much "well the Capitol Police aren't REAL police" or something along those lines. Better, they weren't "the good police" because they were trying to prevent what SHOULD have been allowed to occur.

Boiled down: they were protecting Democrats, and a sheltered in place Mike Pence. Of COURSE they hates them! Local cop on the beat is a totally different thing. A police force that protects the elite swamp things? They are to be despised.

It's all about loyalty, and whose side you are on, and if you aren't fur, us, yer agin' us, and all that. Very very Trump like approach, as usual these days.

[Pyperkub]

DC police probably sympathetic to Capitol police.

[msteelers]

I found this to be an interesting perspective on the January 6th riot. The article is mainly meant to showcase the gear and technology used to provide audio for the inauguration, but it goes into what happened a bit during the riots. Basically, the rioters trashed all of the equipment they could get their hands on.

Well-documented in photos and videos, the mob occupied, vandalized and looted the U.S. Capitol for hours as they attempted to overturn the election by stopping the procedural counting of the Electoral College votes. Less known is the other tens of thousands of dollars in damage they did.

“The roughest part during the cleanup was breathing in all the tear gas dust residue that was left behind,” says Bednar. “None of us expected to come back in and find what we found. Ninety percent of our fiber optics had been cut, racks thrown over, speakers tossed around, and equipment missing."

[snip]

Almost everything was damaged but the hanging JBL line arrays and what was in the FOH tent — the latter saved only by MSI system tech Billy Martin, who stood watch. The damage included 14 new JBL AC28 compact dual-8” point source speakers. “One of the ongoing challenges is that the people closest to the swearing-in have trouble hearing,” Baltzell says. Purchased specifically for the inauguration, the AC28s were distributed around the platform and mounted on railings, and Trump supporters ripped the grilles off and punctured the cones. They tore the wires out of the back. Threw paint on them. They got a few loose, and there’s images of them lying amongst the other debris, and a video of one being thrown at the Capitol. Some were armed with wire cutters used to cut cables. Ethernet cables were sliced, and circuit breakers were snapped off at the exact spot that could do the most damage. Some wheeled MSI cases away. Others preferred to knock them over and tear the cabling out of the equipment in the racks.

As for Martin, he was defending the FOH tent apprehensively when a large hunting knife punctured the tent at eye-level and tore a long slit down. “It was done by a teenager,” Baltzell says. An adult — presumably his dad — pulled him away and told him to knock it off, saying, “We don’t do this.” Soon, another guy poked his head through and started grabbing a FOH rack. Martin bopped his head with a stick, which deterred him. “If Billy had not been there, the walls would have been ripped and the two brand new DiGiCo SD5 Quantum consoles would have likely been destroyed,” Baltzell says.

And while this isn't related to the insurrection, I thought it was funny. In order to mic up the oath of office, the sound engineer thought it would be a good idea to cut a hole in the bible and hide the mic there.

The reaction was quick. “I look around, and just see the entire table of suits go white — dozens with the color draining from their face, with a ‘Who the hell is this guy?’ look on their face.” Finally, one said that they would not be cutting any pages of that Bible, which was the same one used by George Washington at the first inauguration.

[malchior]

Really interesting stuff. It also gives a sense of the scale. One thing to think about is that perhaps investigating just this 'one event' might be too much for our system to process even with the resources of Congress and the world's biggest law office (the DOJ).

[Pyperkub]

Hmm. Emptywheel reporting Guilty plea to Sedition by one of Roger Stone's Oathkeeper guardians...

[Grifman]

Pretty big news:



So the question becomes will the Justice Dept do anything?

[malchior]

No they won't. Why do i say that? Because the filing talks about things we already know. I just read it. There is nothing we didn't know. They are just detailing those facts and offer up an opinion that there should be a charge as part of an argument in a related matter. My question is so what? Why is this going to move the needle?

[Kraken]

No they won't. Why do i say that? Because the filing talks about things we already know. I just read it. There is nothing we didn't know. They are just detailing those facts and offer up an opinion that there should be a charge as part of an argument in a related matter. My question is so what? Why is this going to move the needle?

Public hearings are going to air soon, no? That would be a nice time to gift the AG with a recommendation.

[malchior]

I'm sure the AG doesn't see it as a gift. He very well could see it as political pressure on the DOJ. Even then, the AG has earned that pressure. I mean what the heck is going on with Mark Meadows? It has been about two months since he was referred out by Congress for failing to appear before the 1/6 panel.

[Max Peck]

Son of accused 6 January rioters testifies in court

The son of a man accused of helping to lead the 6 January 2020 Capitol riot has testified that his father threatened him with injury if he alerted authorities.

Guy Reffitt, 49, has pleaded not guilty to five felony charges related to the attack, and is the first accused rioter to stand trial.

His son, Jackson, 19, warned the FBI of his father's plans.

Mr Reffitt told his children alerting authorities would make them "traitors".

"If you turn me in, you're a traitor and traitors get shot," Jackson testified to a Washington DC court on Thursday.

The teenager said that he had felt "nervous" and "weird" searching how to contact the FBI to report his father, he told jurors in Washington DC, but felt compelled to do so after exchanges with Mr Reffitt he found alarming.

Jackson had told FBI investigators that his father informed the family that he'd gone to the Capitol to protect the country and brought a gun with him.

Mr Reffitt is charged with bringing a handgun to the Capitol, obstruction of justice and obstruction of an official proceeding, among other crimes.

On 11 January, just 5 days after the riot, Mr Reffitt warned his children against reporting him to the police, telling them he'd "do what he had to do".

Soon after, Mr Refitt allegedly told his daughter that he would "put a bullet through" her phone if she were recording him or sharing his comments online. He was arrested on 19 January.

She is also expected to testify during the trial.

I believe the plural ("rioters") in the headline is likely a typo given that there is no mention in the article of the mother being involved.

[Grifman]

Lawyers facing discipline:

[malchior]

Lawyers facing discipline:

They aren't facing discipline...yet. They are facing groups of people organizing mostly unfunded efforts to try to get them disciplined. And while I applaud the effort it reads to me like a finger in the dam trying to stop a sea of bad behavior overwhelming us. I'll throw this on the ever deeper pile about how justice is coming soon. Justice for the elite is like nuclear fusion - it's just around the corner!

[Unagi]

trump's healthcare plan.