Too early to think about 2022?

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Kraken
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Kraken »

I'd think climate change would be a defining issue in AK...but then, so is oil.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:53 pm
Octavious wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 8:45 pm I think they really underestimated ripping people's rights away.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:33 pm That is not surprising. I meant when will state legislatures start overturning election results?
They are assembling the mechanisms for that as we speak. We will find out in 2 years whether allowing them to coup without consequence will finish off our democracy. It is unfortunately more likely than it should be.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Jaymann »

Nixon overplayed his hand when he had complete power. Hopefully the Repugnicans have done the same thing with overturning Roe.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by coopasonic »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:53 pm It is big, but if you look at the vote counts, the two Repugnicans cancelled each other out, allowing the Democrat to slip in. But at least she will be running as an incumbent.
It was ranked choice, so not that simple. Begich was eliminated as having the least 1st choice votes so for folks that had him as first choice, their second choice was added. Most of those second choices went to Palin, but enough went to Peltola to put her over 50%.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Grifman »

A lot of people here were writing Biden off:



He’s had a good run so far and with his latest “semi-facism” comments and this upcoming speech, he looks to come out fighting. I do think for the longest time he hoped the Republicans would turn from Trump, and he gave them every chance, as is his personality. But IMO, he gets it.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by El Guapo »

coopasonic wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 9:27 am
Jaymann wrote: Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:53 pm It is big, but if you look at the vote counts, the two Repugnicans cancelled each other out, allowing the Democrat to slip in. But at least she will be running as an incumbent.
It was ranked choice, so not that simple. Begich was eliminated as having the least 1st choice votes so for folks that had him as first choice, their second choice was added. Most of those second choices went to Palin, but enough went to Peltola to put her over 50%.
Also apparently there were a lot of people who voted for Begich as first choice but ranked no one second. Apparently there's still a widespread dislike of Palin even among GOPers.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Smoove_B »

When members of the GOP come out against something (like ranked choice), I can only assume at this point it's because it's a more democratic process that accurately represents the electorate and makes it more likely that GOP members aren't elected.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Kraken »

Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:53 pm A lot of people here were writing Biden off:

He’s had a good run so far and with his latest “semi-facism” comments and this upcoming speech, he looks to come out fighting. I do think for the longest time he hoped the Republicans would turn from Trump, and he gave them every chance, as is his personality. But IMO, he gets it.
Trump is doing the Democrats a great favor in making the midterms about him, instead of a referendum on Biden. Biden's favorability rating is rising, but still in the low 40s. But trump's is even worse. Between the Dobbs decision and trump hogging the spotlight again, Dems are anticipating strong turnout, which should minimize or even reverse their expected losses.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:51 pm
Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:53 pm A lot of people here were writing Biden off:

He’s had a good run so far and with his latest “semi-facism” comments and this upcoming speech, he looks to come out fighting. I do think for the longest time he hoped the Republicans would turn from Trump, and he gave them every chance, as is his personality. But IMO, he gets it.
Trump is doing the Democrats a great favor in making the midterms about him, instead of a referendum on Biden. Biden's favorability rating is rising, but still in the low 40s. But trump's is even worse. Between the Dobbs decision and trump hogging the spotlight again, Dems are anticipating strong turnout, which should minimize or even reverse their expected losses.
It would have been a legitimate strategy to goad him into being himself...but the Democrats didn't even have to bother. He's such a fucking moron. I hate that he has impunity but at least it seemingly frees him to do and say dumb politically damaging stuff.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by hepcat »

I wonder if the exodus from Trump will be a trickle at first, or a groundswell? Because I'll be honest, I'm feeling hopeful his days are numbered lately.

Check back with me next week when I go back to being sure he's with us forever.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

malchior wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:44 pm
Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 4:51 pm
Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:53 pm A lot of people here were writing Biden off:

He’s had a good run so far and with his latest “semi-facism” comments and this upcoming speech, he looks to come out fighting. I do think for the longest time he hoped the Republicans would turn from Trump, and he gave them every chance, as is his personality. But IMO, he gets it.
Trump is doing the Democrats a great favor in making the midterms about him, instead of a referendum on Biden. Biden's favorability rating is rising, but still in the low 40s. But trump's is even worse. Between the Dobbs decision and trump hogging the spotlight again, Dems are anticipating strong turnout, which should minimize or even reverse their expected losses.
It would have been a legitimate strategy to goad him into being himself...but the Democrats didn't even have to bother. He's such a fucking moron. I hate that he has impunity but at least it seemingly frees him to do and say dumb politically damaging stuff.
It honestly makes me wonder if there have been conversations about how it's strategically better for democracy to let such an obvious and popular 'enemy of democracy' stay in play.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:53 pm A lot of people here were writing Biden off:
Well, he has named Donald Trump right alongside the MAGA Republicans and keeps naming him when he says MAGA Republicans.

This is good.

He is absolutely throwing down.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

I agree this is good so far.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

I know it's almost obligatory - but I would rather they didn't feel the need to take the moment to 'brag' about what has been achieved while Biden has been president. Maybe I'm dumb here - and this is his chance to defend his presidency. I can get on board that - but I worry who would be turned off by the appearance of 'a victory lap' - -who would otherwise not blinked.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Isgrimnur »

People love a winner.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

Very positive:
making a clear distinction between 'MAGA Republicans' and 'Main Stream Republicans' -- and asking those that are not of the MAGA Republican group to realize where the lines are drawn. This is something that 'GOP' has been entirely incapable of trying to argue for. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that a 'mainstream republican' wasn't behind a part of this messaging.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by YellowKing »

Unagi wrote:but I worry who would be turned off by the appearance of 'a victory lap'
I think his chance to persuade fence-sitters by reminding them of his accomplishments...while drawing distinction between him and MAGA - far outweighs any potential turn-offs.

It finally feels like the Dems are playing offense, which is going to be absolutely necessary to stop these extremists.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:38 pm
Unagi wrote:but I worry who would be turned off by the appearance of 'a victory lap'
I think his chance to persuade fence-sitters by reminding them of his accomplishments...while drawing distinction between him and MAGA - far outweighs any potential turn-offs.

It finally feels like the Dems are playing offense, which is going to be absolutely necessary to stop these extremists.
To clarify, I absolutely feel the message of this entire speech was spot on.

I just think that they did not bring any single person on board with their "we have done this, aren't we great!?" message - and only stood to turn a few off.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Grifman »

Unagi wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:30 pm Very positive:
making a clear distinction between 'MAGA Republicans' and 'Main Stream Republicans' -- and asking those that are not of the MAGA Republican group to realize where the lines are drawn. This is something that 'GOP' has been entirely incapable of trying to argue for. I wouldn't be shocked to hear that a 'mainstream republican' wasn't behind a part of this messaging.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy that a Democrat has to make that argument for the soul of the Republican Party.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Kraken »

Unagi wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:41 pm
YellowKing wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:38 pm
Unagi wrote:but I worry who would be turned off by the appearance of 'a victory lap'
I think his chance to persuade fence-sitters by reminding them of his accomplishments...while drawing distinction between him and MAGA - far outweighs any potential turn-offs.

It finally feels like the Dems are playing offense, which is going to be absolutely necessary to stop these extremists.
To clarify, I absolutely feel the message of this entire speech was spot on.

I just think that they did not bring any single person on board with their "we have done this, aren't we great!?" message - and only stood to turn a few off.
The subtext of the whole speech was inspiring listeners to vote D in November, and starting with a victory lap was appropriate in that context. I thought he would make that explicit, along the lines of: "If you protect our House majority and expand our Senate majority, we can restore abortion rights, protect voting rights, and reign in the rogue SCOTUS." He talked a lot about how he feels about democracy and who our enemy is, but next-to-nothing about what he will do to protect it. I guess "vote...vote...VOTE" kind of covered that, and I'll vote three times if Soros pays me to.

He threw down the gauntlet, though, and that's good. I'm glad he didn't mince words about trump being the enemy of democracy.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Grifman »

Biden lays it out again:

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Alefroth »

That was a pretty brilliant, more so because it was mostly unscripted.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by YellowKing »

Yeah Biden's having to toe a very thin line, because Fox and MAGA-land are doing everything in their power to frame this as "Biden is attacking you" to fire them up at the polls.

It's just maddening, the hypocrisy. And the fact that these dumbasses can't see how banning books, overturning free elections, and marginalizing people who don't fit their white Christian mold is straight out of the fascist playbook.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Holman »

It's infuriating that the MSM is leaning right into the debate over the optics of the speech (Red lighting! US Marines!) rather than the substance.

Obviously they're doing this because it's the only aspect that they can comfortably Bothsides.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:37 pm It's infuriating that the MSM is leaning right into the debate over the optics of the speech (Red lighting! US Marines!) rather than the substance.

Obviously they're doing this because it's the only aspect that they can comfortably Bothsides.
Several networks didn't even run it. The MSM is sitting the fight out. Not that it'll save them if/when the fascists march in. This is the real consequence of the government allowing media to consolidate into its current form.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Carpet_pissr »

YellowKing wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:21 pm these dumbasses can't see how banning books, overturning free elections, and marginalizing people who don't fit their white Christian mold is straight out of the fascist playbook.
They see it, they just don’t care. ‘Winning’ trumps whatever elitist lib term you want to use to describe the technical governmental mechanism for how they can win.

Already starting to see this idea on mainstream airwaves: ‘fine, if we can’t win via democracy, FUCK DEMOCRACY’
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Holman »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:12 pm They see it, they just don’t care. ‘Winning’ trumps whatever elitist lib term you want to use to describe the technical governmental mechanism for how they can win.

Already starting to see this idea on mainstream airwaves: ‘fine, if we can’t win via democracy, FUCK DEMOCRACY’
They've been saying it for years: "Hey did you know that we're a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRACY??"

The implied claim is that a Republic is ruled by those qualified to rule. MAGA's believe that they (as white Christians) define the elite group of citizens competent to govern the rest.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Unagi »

Holman wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:23 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:12 pm They see it, they just don’t care. ‘Winning’ trumps whatever elitist lib term you want to use to describe the technical governmental mechanism for how they can win.

Already starting to see this idea on mainstream airwaves: ‘fine, if we can’t win via democracy, FUCK DEMOCRACY’
They've been saying it for years: "Hey did you know that we're a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRACY??"

The implied claim is that a Republic is ruled by those qualified to rule. MAGA's believe that they (as white Christians) define the elite group of citizens competent to govern the rest.
I always saw it as a prelude to: "Yeah? Well, deal with it name_your_minority you don't actually have a voice."
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

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NEW: Unearthed audio shows Dr. Oz saying incest is “not a big problem” as long as “you’re more than a first cousin away.” He added his daughters don’t want to have sex with him because “my daughters hate my smell... Girls don’t like their fathers’ smell.”
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Alefroth »

That wouldn't sink Trump, but it may just be the nail in Oz's coffin.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

If you want to hear the segment - it is at ~13:50. It's not great for a politician perhaps but he is clearly playing along with a gimmicky segment. I doubt it'll move the needle. Implying you bang your daughter is a show of allegiance now. :vomit:
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by hepcat »

I thought he was just explaining incest from a genetics standpoint. I can’t stand the guy, but that didn’t strike me as alarming. He also never said his daughters didn’t want to have sex with him. He was explaining why daughters don’t like the smell of their fathers. Then added his own can’t stand his smell.

The crudités thing is still worse.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Grifman »

Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

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For this NH family, "Live free or die" is more than a motto.
Tyler and Sara Brown are proud members of the Free State movement, transplants from New York’s Hudson Valley who moved here with three young children, joining thousands of other people from around the country who want to create a libertarian utopia in the Granite State.

The Browns, who relocated in November, are part of the most recent influx of Free Staters to arrive in New Hampshire, and their embrace of the movement offers a glimpse into its appeal for people who believe that liberty and modern government are incompatible.

But where Free Staters see a paradise, many critics see a mish-mash of preposterous ideas. Tyler Brown, for example, thinks secession could be a good idea. “What does New Hampshire have in common with Alabama?” he said.

The couple are not worried about who would repair the roads if government disappeared. They oppose restrictions on firearms. And their children attend a home-schooling cooperative because the Browns believe public education is dysfunctional and dangerous.

To many critics, however, Free Staters are an existential threat to democracy itself.

Once considered a fringe movement in New Hampshire, the Free State philosophy has moved far past theory. Free State leaders estimate that more than 6,000 people have moved to New Hampshire as part of the movement, and say that nearly 20,000 have signed a pledge to do so.

Those figures have been disputed by critics, but Free Staters in New Hampshire are running for office from select boards to the State House, including contests in Tuesday’s primary election. Already, there are 25 known and likely members in the state House of Representatives, according to progressive tracking groups, and a number of other representatives are suspected of sympathizing with the movement.

They constitute a formidable bloc that some mainstream Republicans contend has hijacked their party in pursuit of an extreme conservative agenda.
The story continues and is worth reading if you aren't blocked. But why is it in this thread? Because,

Bolduc won the NH Republican primary.
Bolduc, a retired Army brigadier general, has more of a connection to the right-wing base. He has a reputation for incendiary rhetoric and for promoting 2020 election conspiracies. Despite his sparsely funded campaign, Bolduc had a Democratic group doing his dirty work, spending more than $3 million during the primary to tag Morse as a yes-man for Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell, a villainous figure to many Republicans loyal to former President Donald Trump. Polls in the final weeks showed Bolduc ahead comfortably.
Hassan's seat was (is) considered one of the GOP's strongest pickup possibilities, and Dems are hoping that a fire-breathing MAGAt will be a weak challenger. But as my first link indicates, NH has a growing number of batshit-insane voters. Let's hope there aren't enough of them yet, because Sen. Bolduc would be bad news for America.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by El Guapo »

About how many Free Staters are there?
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by malchior »

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:43 am About how many Free Staters are there?
Not enough to care about (the article indicates the Free Staters claim 6000 or so). I don't think it is worth focusing on the Free Staters, they are less a half percent of the population of a fairly low population state. Even though the Hudson Valley family features now has 14 times the representation in the Senate they once had back in NY, they still don't have much influence unless the vote is the thinnest of margins.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hepcat wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:28 pm I thought he was just explaining incest from a genetics standpoint. I can’t stand the guy, but that didn’t strike me as alarming. He also never said his daughters didn’t want to have sex with him. He was explaining why daughters don’t like the smell of their fathers. Then added his own can’t stand his smell.
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

Post by Holman »

Oz is going Willie Horton on Fetterman, running ads claiming that he wants to empty the prisons and release all the murderous criminals. (The actual Fetterman position, of course, is that low-level drug crimes are over-prosecuted and that non-violent low-level offenders shouldn't spend decades in jail.)

There's even an Oz ad declaring that Fetterman hired two offenders "convicted of violent crime" for his campaign. (The truth is that the two were released after being completely exonerated by later evidence, although Oz fails to mention that.)
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Re: Too early to think about 2022?

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Remember when he was Oprah's darling?
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