Too early to think about 2022?

[Zarathud]

It turns out people are self interested and turned off the nasty news cycle without believing how bad Republicans have become.

[Kurth]

We were talking to our neighbor today. Great guy, hated Trump. Hates anti-vaxx crap pushed by the right, pro-women's rights, yada yada yada.

However, he started going on about how he waited in line over an hour today in early voting to make sure he voted a straight Republican ticket. Because...gas prices.

It really just bummed out my whole evening. I mean we're well and truly fucked at this point. People aren't listening, they don't care. At some point soon we're literally going to be living the Handmaid's Tale while these knuckleheads are looking around going "What the hell happened?"

It's all I can see around me. The Republicans are doing their best to dismantle democracy, have no respect for the rule of law and absolutely have no relationship with reality, but gas prices are bad or there are too many homeless so let's vote to accelerate that process. How are so many people so goddamned stupid?

This post bothers me. I'm conflicted. I'm not generally a single issue voter, except when it comes to protecting our democracy. I'd never vote for or knowingly aid a MAGAt Republican to win an election. That said, I'm really close to voting for an independent in the OR governor's race knowing full well that it may result in the GOP candidate (Drazan) being our next governor. From what I have read, she's not a MAGAt Republican. But she is anti-choice, anti-gun control, anti-environment . . . pretty much opposite of where I line up on most issues. I think she's probably in the Liz Cheney mold.

But she's not an election denier or a Trump sycophant (at least, not yet). And, she'd be the first GOP governor in OR in 40 years, something that would surely send a message to the establishment Dems here who have not been challenged (except to be primaried by more progressive Dems) for quite some time. And even where she espouses views I completely disagree with, the chances that she could do much harm in a state where the legislature will still be overwhelmingly controlled by Dems is negligible (really zero).

I want the status quo here in OR to change. Things are not good. The establishment political elite have done a really bad job. I have no real hope that the opposition will do better, but I am hopeful that a powerful message to the Democratic party here in OR will result in some soul searching and some positive change going forward.

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

[gbasden]

This post bothers me. I'm conflicted. I'm not generally a single issue voter, except when it comes to protecting our democracy. I'd never vote for or knowingly aid a MAGAt Republican to win an election. That said, I'm really close to voting for an independent in the OR governor's race knowing full well that it may result in the GOP candidate (Drazan) being our next governor. From what I have read, she's not a MAGAt Republican. But she is anti-choice, anti-gun control, anti-environment . . . pretty much opposite of where I line up on most issues. I think she's probably in the Liz Cheney mold.

But she's not an election denier or a Trump sycophant (at least, not yet). And, she'd be the first GOP governor in OR in 40 years, something that would surely send a message to the establishment Dems here who have not been challenged (except to be primaried by more progressive Dems) for quite some time. And even where she espouses views I completely disagree with, the chances that she could do much harm in a state where the legislature will still be overwhelmingly controlled by Dems is negligible (really zero).

I want the status quo here in OR to change. Things are not good. The establishment political elite have done a really bad job. I have no real hope that the opposition will do better, but I am hopeful that a powerful message to the Democratic party here in OR will result in some soul searching and some positive change going forward.

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

I get the frustration. I really do. There are a number of policies where I think the Democrats are off base. I'm what used to be considered moderate back when the right hadn't fallen off the side of the scale.

But everything I can see says that the Republican party is doing as much as it can to make sure that they can subvert elections. Maybe 2022, almost definitely 2024 the more MAGA people get into state positions of power. I can't see a way to support the Republican party without being an accomplice to looming fascism. I haven't looked at Oregon, and maybe the R is a decent person. I have a lot of respect for Liz Cheney (a phrase I hadn't expected to utter ever). But the Republican party is rotten to the core and unmoored from reality. They see Putin and Bolsonaro as things to emulate. They have more in common with China and North Korea than they do our European allies. The damage they can do is incalculable IMO.

[Kraken]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

What's your conscience tell you to do? I'd listen to that.

[Kurth]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

What's your conscience tell you to do? I'd listen to that.

Always (or almost always) sound advice.

[LordMortis]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

I know I hate being a hostage to the democrats and I don't like at least a couple of the candidates I'll be voting for. That said, I've seen what my state is doing and what our national governments are doing. It's not just the OO or Liberal media lens. It's seeing what the governmental entities and their political machines are trying and failing and trying and accomplishing. I've seen how my local populace acts and trust that I don't want the same local authorities appealing to their worst instincts.

Still it's your decision, not mine. Especially at the state level. I couldn't begin to know what Oregon Dems and Reps are doing to your state. I'm watching mine fight over education, reproductive rights, the environment, infrastructure, and civil services and it's crystal clear who I have to try and keep from expanding power and the deal with the devil I have to make.

I will say I do really like Merkley historically, even if I can't ever vote for him.

[Exodor]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

"I perceive that things are bad so I'm going to vote for someone I completely disagree with who will try to implement policies that will hurt the state"?

What do you think?


This is the first national election since January 6. To me any vote for a Republican is an endorsement of their actions that day. If there are no real consequences for pushing lies about election fraud what do you think will happen in 2024 particularly if a few of these election-denying SoS get elected?

I will say I do really like Merkley historically, even if I can't ever vote for him.

Merkley is good but Ron Wyden is great. I wish we had more -D senators like him.

[Unagi]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

What's your conscience tell you to do? I'd listen to that.

Always (or almost always) sound advice.

For myself, while I may not like the choices I understand what path I really don’t want. In the current context, there is no way I would do anything that could support a Republican victory.

And also, while I would love to grab the Democratic Party by the collar and tell them a thing or two about priorities or messaging or a number of other things, the one political party that really needs a message to be sent to them is the Republican Party.
Personally I couldn’t do anything that may result in the Republicans to gain more power or even appear more popular than they are.
IMO.

[El Guapo]

This won't fix the current problem, but going forward you could get involved with advocating for ranked choice voting in Oregon so that you can vote against the Democratic candidate without thereby supporting the Republican candidate.

[Octavious]

Voting for any R in this cycle if you are a Dem just seems crazy. Like we're legit on the cusp of becoming Russia 2.0 if we aren't there already. Send a message when Trump isn't trying to shit on your head.

[Alefroth]

Am I a knucklehead for voting for the independent? [serious question because I am seriously questioning whether I am]

What's your conscience tell you to do? I'd listen to that.

His conscience told him to ask us for advice. I hope he listens to that.

[malchior]

WTF? Fed's partner in crime isn't impressing me lately. This whole 'season' he has been dropping what I'd consider just wretched takes. For instance, in the case of the tweet/article below it is about a problem he describes as 'no choice' politics as if that was the Democratic party at fault. It's somehow beyond him that one party is anti-democratic and supports fascism and the other isn't. It's should be no choice because of the danger. I really couldn't fathom how he even sat down and wrote this nonsense.

When Democrats talk about “democracy,” they’re talking about the importance of institutions that ensure the voters get a say among multiple choices and the one they most prefer gets to rule. But they are also saying voters do not get to do that in this election. The message is that there is only one party contesting this election that is committed to democracy — the Democrats — and therefore only one real choice available. If voters reject Democrats’ agenda or their record on issues including inflation, crime, and immigration (or abortion, for that matter), they have no recourse at the ballot box — they simply must vote for Democrats anyway, at least until such time as the Republican Party is run by the likes of Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger.

This amounts to telling voters that they have already lost their democracy.

That's just stupid. Yes that is exactly what should happen until the Republicans stop denying elections and stoking political violence. Sometimes people need an editor to tell them they are being dumb.

On the issue of dumping money into bad people's campaigns that wasn't something I liked. Still it was clear they did it thinking it'd be easier to win the election against a weaker candidate. I thought it was terrible risk management in the sense that if that person won it'd be a disaster. However, framing it this way is again ... just stupid. In the end, IMO Fed has been carrying their podcast and this type of lightweight analysis reinforces that impression.

[Zarathud]

Republicans voted for the jackasses in their primary, not Democrats. The risk is voters who aren’t paying attention in the general election. Or who are even more deplorable.

[YellowKing]

His argument is essentially that Democrats should compromise their political positions in an effort to bring in voters. I'm sure the right would be completely willing to relax their gun control and abortion positions if the roles were flipped. It's especially galling considering the MAJORITY of Americans agree with Democrats on most social issues.

It's yet another example of this idea that we need to "appease" the people holding this country hostage.

[LordMortis]

The GOP did "relax their position" on abortion... right up until they could expose their own lies, while concurrently crying about democrats "packing the courts." Guns were a rallying cry of fear that allowed their disguised lies on abortion to remain in hiding until they could be protected.

I think the GOP have "relaxed their positions" on affirmative action, equal opportunity, etc... right up until they have enough control to institutionalize a non relaxed position

https://www.adl.org/news/press-releases ... me-high-in

[Unagi]

Totally nailed it.

[malchior]

His argument is essentially that Democrats should compromise their political positions in an effort to bring in voters. I'm sure the right would be completely willing to relax their gun control and abortion positions if the roles were flipped. It's especially galling considering the MAJORITY of Americans agree with Democrats on most social issues.

Agreed. At a national level this gets into really dumb territory. The GOP has the whole system locked down in constant obstruction. At the local level, there are definitely problems that you could lay at Democratic leaders feet as they are a bit more free to act. However, they are all very complex issues that ... are being exacerbated by the national political problems. Worse all of that is all too easy to attack in a sound bite culture. The GOP and a cottage industry of bad actors both domestic and foreign are issuing terse attacks and spreading disinformation on general issues such as inflation, crime, and homeless while often having no alternate ideas or any track record of success. And a bunch of these absolutely useless 'very serious' types nod their head along. The policy space is a desolate wasteland at this point and public political analysis is even worse.

I'll contrast him to a Tom Nichols who is unabashedly a conservative but has given *constructive* criticism to the Democrats. He actually pretty much preached the opposite. He wrote an Atlantic piece where he said (accurately IMO) that the Democrats haven't painted a clear picture of the danger and what electing the Republicans would look like. Biden has at times tried to do that but this isn't a problem where a 'big speech' here and there addresses the magnitude of the issues.

It's yet another example of this idea that we need to "appease" the people holding this country hostage.

There is this. I also suspect he is essentially a 2008 era Republican frozen in amber. This is really about *his personal policy preferences*. Well in a very abstract way because that'd assume he even has an idea what good look like for inflation, homelessness, and crime. And let's say I don't have much faith he does.

[Alefroth]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

[Carpet_pissr]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

[LordMortis]

I swear I just posted this.

[Alefroth]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

There has been a lot of pressure for her to speak out since she was largely responsible for elevating Oz.

[Unagi]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

You are missing the connection.
Oprah made Oz.

[malchior]

The new boogeyman? A "massive" diesel shortage according to the reckless and evil fear-mongerers on the right and its media complex. If you haven't been reading reports out of the fear-o-sphere you might have missed this. There are indeed some supply constraints but this has been exaggerated into yet another crisis - everything is a crisis now amirite?. There are local voices here spreading dire predictions that there may be widespread food shortages this winter and urging people to stock up. It has the nice bonus of creating the appearance of the problem they are predicting.

[Unagi]

What’s the normal stock pile ?

[Smoove_B]

The new boogeyman? A "massive" diesel shortage according to the reckless and evil fear-mongerers on the right and its media complex.

Glad you mentioned it - seeing it quite a bit on local social media, always followed by "Don't forget to vote RED" as that will magically increase supplies and lower prices significantly on 11/9. The really insistent ones have been ranting about kerosene prices for a month or so and we should all be watching as kerosene prices are the harbinger of America's failure (or something).

[Isgrimnur]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

You are missing the connection.
Oprah made Oz.

Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain.

[LordMortis]

The new boogeyman? A "massive" diesel shortage according to the reckless and evil fear-mongerers on the right and its media complex.

Glad you mentioned it - seeing it quite a bit on local social media, always followed by "Don't forget to vote RED" as that will magically increase supplies and lower prices significantly on 11/9. The really insistent ones have been ranting about kerosene prices for a month or so and we should all be watching as kerosene prices are the harbinger of America's failure (or something).

Silly question, if Trump can use DPA to force GM to make ventilators (which they were already doing?) why can't Biden use DPA to force oil companies to produce oil?

Also, it is my belief that the spice will flow if everyone vote RED. The Saudis get rid of Biden's power and domestic oil gets rid of Biden's power. They both are pretty demonstrably after Biden, progressive leadership, and democrats, in general. Sometimes even saying it out loud.

[Carpet_pissr]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

There has been a lot of pressure for her to speak out since she was largely responsible for elevating Oz.

Oooooooooh. I did not know that, and that is horrible (that she made Oz, not my ignorance).

[Carpet_pissr]

Oprah endorses Fetterman

Who?

I'm not exactly the "People" maagzine type, so I am probably very wrong here, but is she relevant anymore? A massive pop culture icon, no doubt...in the 90's. I rarely hear about her anymore, but maybe that's because she's already reached goddess status and is merely observing the mortals from on high while eating grapes.

You are missing the connection.
Oprah made Oz.

Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain.

I don't. Obviously! To the point I had no idea she was a political...Ozmaker.

[Carpet_pissr]

Also, it is my belief that the spice will flow if everyone vote RED. The Saudis get rid of Biden's power and domestic oil gets rid of Biden's power. They both are pretty demonstrably after Biden, progressive leadership, and democrats, in general. Sometimes even saying it out loud.

Yeah, as I've mentioned before, and as snarky as we are around here when talking about politics and gas prices, there is at least some fire creating the GOP's political smoke about blaming Biden for gas prices. The oil companies DO NOT want to play ball with Biden because of his green stances. Yes, it also has to do with dividends (if the articles I read are to be believed, and they seemed logical and sound to me), but ultimately, Biden and Big Oil are on opposite teams, and there's no will at all from these companies to help Biden out. In fact it would be against their (financial) interests to do so. He gets the same response that he got from the Saudis when he went begging to try and resolve the problem. Not only "are you crazy? Why would we help YOU?!" but "okthanksforcomingseeya! then BOOM goes the oil prices dynamite as soon as he's left the building.

[Smoove_B]

He gets the same response that he got from the Saudis when he went begging to try and resolve the problem. Not only "are you crazy? Why would we help YOU?!" but "okthanksforcomingseeya! then BOOM goes the oil prices dynamite as soon as he's left the building.

I don't ever remember gasoline prices being so in focus ahead of an election as they feel right now. Maybe I'm just numb and can't remember 20+ years of contentious issues, but it feels like this is intentionally being pushed as THE issue to vote on.

What's amazing to me is that whatever political strategists were advising that the overturning of Roe v Wade back in June wouldn't be an issue in 3 months were clearly right. I'm confident there are high-fives happening all over GOP offices this week as the focus of the average American (anecdotally) seems to be on gas prices and how much money a weekly trip to the supermarket now costs.

[Carpet_pissr]

He gets the same response that he got from the Saudis when he went begging to try and resolve the problem. Not only "are you crazy? Why would we help YOU?!" but "okthanksforcomingseeya! then BOOM goes the oil prices dynamite as soon as he's left the building.

I don't ever remember gasoline prices being so in focus ahead of an election as they feel right now. Maybe I'm just numb and can't remember 20+ years of contentious issues, but it feels like this is intentionally being pushed as THE issue to vote on.

What's amazing to me is that whatever political strategists were advising that the overturning of Roe v Wade back in June wouldn't be an issue in 3 months were clearly right. I'm confident there are high-fives happening all over GOP offices this week as the focus of the average American (anecdotally) seems to be on gas prices and how much money a weekly trip to the supermarket now costs.

To be fair, I know quite a few people who don't give a shit about politics...and they will vote for whoever (they think) will improve their particular economic situation. If Trump had been behind student loan forgiveness? TOTALLY would have voted for him with no fucks given. Inflation and high gas prices? Whoever is saying they will "fix" it, will get their vote. Whoever is in office while their wallet is getting lighter due to the same is NOT going to get their vote. And that's as far as it goes. It really has little to do with the GOP/Dems and their strategy or lack thereof, or even their ad runs for a large part of the population methinks.

[malchior]

Also, it is my belief that the spice will flow if everyone vote RED. The Saudis get rid of Biden's power and domestic oil gets rid of Biden's power. They both are pretty demonstrably after Biden, progressive leadership, and democrats, in general. Sometimes even saying it out loud.

Yeah, as I've mentioned before, and as snarky as we are around here when talking about politics and gas prices, there is at least some fire creating the GOP's political smoke about blaming Biden for gas prices. The oil companies DO NOT want to play ball with Biden because of his green stances. Yes, it also has to do with dividends (if the articles I read are to be believed, and they seemed logical and sound to me), but ultimately, Biden and Big Oil are on opposite teams, and there's no will at all from these companies to help Biden out.

It goes well beyond dividends IMO. They took the opportunity when the pandemic occurred to make fairly radical changes to their business models. The US is the biggest exporter of gas in the world and was on a path to being pretty dominant. As of about 5 years ago 30% of those refineries were owned by foreign interests. There is a case to be made they used decarbonization and the pandemic to make excuses to cut the US down to size on the energy balance. Which has nothing to do with Biden. These decisions were made when Trump was President. Worse even if they could be cajoled to change their minds - instead of pocketing the excess profits they created by ensuring a shortage - shutting down a refinery is a lot quicker than starting it back up. It's in the scale of years. So we're stuck.

In fact it would be against their (financial) interests to do so. He gets the same response that he got from the Saudis when he went begging to try and resolve the problem. Not only "are you crazy? Why would we help YOU?!" but "okthanksforcomingseeya! then BOOM goes the oil prices dynamite as soon as he's left the building.

I do really think this emphasis on Biden is a bit misplaced. Energy has always been a geopolitical touchstone and we're seeing some of those dynamics play out. That's why if we were honest we'd recognize that allowing that much foreign ownership interest was probably a federal policy failure. That was driven more on the GOP side but plenty of Dems are to blame as well. The big energy lobbyists flooded campaigns with money and enabled a fair amount of our national security to be placed in foreign interest's hands. Those foreign interests are applying pressure where they know we are weak. For example, all this noise about domestic drilling and such. It's all bullshit. So much of that activity is wealth extracted out of the country to foreign hands. It's an unvirtuous cycle.

[Carpet_pissr]

allowing that much foreign ownership interest was probably a federal policy failure.

Totally agree here.

I'm a bit surprised the more I read about how we have "sold out" in some ways, like a wealthy Venezuela, and just give up so much control of what should be protected national financial interests (but then that smacks of other distasteful "isms" to many so...).

[malchior]

allowing that much foreign ownership interest was probably a federal policy failure.

Totally agree here.

I'm a bit surprised the more I read about how we have "sold out" in some ways, like a wealthy Venezuela, and just give up so much control of what should be protected national financial interests (but then that smacks of other distasteful "isms" to many so...).

Yeah. I personally struggle between "sold out" and "hollowed out". I think it's more the latter. Monsters like Musk and the Kochs and even Gates traded influence and extracted their rents to the point where the United States is one of the most inequal countries on earth with a severe poverty problem. Our foreign power is being blunted by the consequent instability. And then they use all the outcomes driven by poverty: homelessness, crime, and despair as cudgels to make it worse. Such a shame because we at one time had a real chance of making the world a better place. Now it looks like a dark age is ahead for humanity again.

[Grifman]

[Isgrimnur]

https://web.archive.org/web/20221104180 ... -midterms/

[Holman]

[Isgrimnur]

The New Jersey Jets don't.

[Smoove_B]

Why the HELL is Susan Collins campaigning with Dr. Oz??

WASHINGTON, CROSSING, PA— Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA) are joining Mehmet Oz on the campaign trail the Sunday before election week.

COLLINS: “We need more people like Doctor Oz, and like my colleague Brian Fitzpatrick who work across the aisle and solve problems”

What kind of dirt does the GOP have to make her do this?