[Netflix] Cowboy Bebop

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:25 pm

The teaser was better but I'm certainly in. Faye is the weak link from what I've seen so far. She doesn't match the tone of the character at all. We'll see...Jet is perfect..

Tao · Post by **Tao** » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:23 pm

There are several Korean dramas that Netflix (or the show runners) release only one or two episodes per week.

I have not seen much of Daniell Pineda's work, other than her role in the later Jurassic movies. I thought he did a good job with that role but I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around her as Faye Valentine. She doesn't have the same physicality or from the limited amount I've seen in the trailers the same demeanor.

Not sure if it's new or just recently surfaced but the anime version of Bebop recently showed up in my watching suggestions. Started over from EP 1, think I am on 3 or 4 now.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:03 pm

Well, early reviews are not being kind, to put it mildly. Let's hope they're the outliers.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:24 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:03 pm Well, early reviews are not being kind, to put it mildly. Let's hope they're the outliers.

I read through a few, and they're about what I expected. They seem to range from "just ok" to "terrible" with a general sense of "why watch this when the anime exists?"...which has kinda been the biggest question about this series since it was initially announced. People who loved the anime were likely to find fault with any changes whatsoever, and it doesn't seem to have enough to really connect with anyone who didn't come in as a fan. Bummer.

Personally I was going to try and approach it with an open mind, to see if they could translate the style well to live action. I'll still watch it, but my expectations have certainly been lowered a bit.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:29 pm

I'm still going to watch it. But the early reviews have me worried. I've seen three and none of them were what I would call good. Even the one that didn't just slam it with every paragraph included caveats that it was overly concerned with trying to explain away some of the sillier aspects of the anime it's based on. As if it were embarrassed about its source material.

But as I said, I hope these are just the minority. There's always some negative reviews for anything.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:55 pm

Having no connection to the original material, I will offer my completely unbiased opinion.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:00 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:29 pm I'm still going to watch it. But the early reviews have me worried. I've seen three and none of them were what I would call good. Even the one that didn't just slam it with every paragraph included caveats that it was overly concerned with trying to explain away some of the sillier aspects of the anime it's based on. As if it were embarrassed about its source material.

But as I said, I hope these are just the minority. There's always some negative reviews for anything.

I just read the Polygon review. It was so over the top in its pretentiousness that I might like this series out of spite even if it stinks.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 pm

That was my take too. It read like the writer’s dissertation defending his pop culture Phd.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:04 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:01 pm That was my take too. It read like the writer’s dissertation defending his pop culture Phd.

John Cho treads a fine line in his rendition of Spike Spiegel, though one that leans more visibly haunted and world weary than blithely resigned to his own metaphorical and literal “death,” à la Spike in the original series.

Yup. This is a good one to pluck out. It's as if he is getting back at his comparative literature professor for saying his ideas are empty of joy or something.

Edit: And to riff on that in my own pretentious way it seems like they are falling into a classic pitfall. They are trying to do the line by line comparison between two mediums and that's always...sorta silly. I'd rather see a fresh take inspired by something -- even if it turns out very different -- than a retread. I'll hold out hope it's the former.

Tao · Post by **Tao** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:11 pm

As mentioned, I have bee re-watching the original Cowboy Bebop on Netflix and I think around episode 5 I sort of gave up on the live version as I realized, there was no way a remake could even come close to this, it's just too damn good. A live action version of a beloved anime is a daunting task and rife with pitfalls, tackling a near masterpiece has little hope. Thanks to Netflix I have had an opportunity to watch several of these adaptations and so far only two I would consider good and one of those completely took itself unserious and continuously broke the 4th wall, it was great. The other is one of five parts of the storyline, I've watched two so far, one was very good the other was meh, still I plan to watch the other three.

Fun fact about Cowboy Bebop, several of the episodes were written after the musical composition was submitted and the score influenced the episode rather than the other way around.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:35 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:55 pm Having no connection to the original material, I will offer my completely unbiased opinion.

I watched it years ago and only remember the broadest outlines. I'll approach the show as a not-quite-novice.

Cowboy Bebop did inspire me to go on a minor anime kick, but I ultimately didn't become a fan of the genre.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:55 pm

I might have violated my unbiased perspective. On a lark, I just decided to watch the first episode (of the anime) last night via Netflix. For something that was only ~24 minutes long, I was genuinely impressed with how good it was. The writing and pacing, the soundtrack, the fight scenes - everything was just so well done. It gave me a real sense of the universe, set up the characters and gave me enough of a hook to want to keep watching. I wasn't sure when it came out (1998?), but I think I can see why it is so beloved even after just watching that first episode. It feels current and modern, but it's 23+ years old at this point - that's impressive.

I still think I'm unbiased in that I haven't been carrying a torch for the series for 2+ decades like some. But I still wouldn't expect a live-action version to hit the same notes as the original; that feels unrealistic.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:57 pm

I can only assume the obvious at this point. Bob Netflix created the Smoove account years ago and has been slowly gaining our trust so he can offset any negativity towards his family's streaming service.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:58 pm

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:04 pm

To clarify, I watched the original anime on Netflix last night. I don't think the live action is released this Friday (I think) and will be competing with the Wheel of Time for my eyeballs.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:05 pm

D'oh!

And you even wrote "the anime" to make it clear in your post.

I am a product of public education. What can I say.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Tue Nov 16, 2021 4:45 pm

I'm another not-really-into anime person who'd heard positive things about the original anime and was intrigued by the live-action trailers so I binged through the anime last week and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Those ~20 minute episodes just flew by. It seemed like any time I thought "that was great but kind of light and silly" they'd toss in a 2-parter or some darker story and I'd be content and thrilled to get another refrigerator story after that.

I know there are scenes in the trailers that are clearly from the anime but I'd be surprised if this series will just be a straight live-action conversion of the original. I'm sure Spike and Viscious will be the main point of the show, but beyond that who knows? Maybe an episode will open up with a news story about the teddy bear bomber, or a brief scene showing the gang capturing him, just as an homage to the original.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:59 pm

It's a remix where they fleshed out stuff that was already existing in the story. I'll watch a few episodes tonight. I know I won't like it as much as the original but I'm certainly curious to see what they did.

FYI the original show also has a movie and it's quite good. Watch that after watching the series.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:21 pm

Positive review on The Ringer.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:52 pm

There was zero chance that this would get rave reviews no matter what. I'd say the mixed reviews are a win.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:15 pm

I'm in the middle of watching the first episode. Watch it and decide for yourselves. It's really enjoyable to watch. Respects the source material and stands on its own!

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:02 pm

First episode gets a thumbs up from me. Faye so far actually seems really good.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:02 pm

I’m going to give it a watch tonight. I’m happy to hear folks are enjoying it. That gives me hope.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:44 pm

As I watch a few more episodes I think they hit it out of the park in regards to the world building, stylish action and the way Spike, Jet and Faye play off of each other is great to watch.

However…

I think they wrote the part of Vicious and Julia really badly. It’s fine if they wanted to take some liberties and flesh out their story but Vicious comes off as a merely typical unhinged two bit gangster while I’m at a loss as to what Spike saw in Julia. The anime Vicious was genuinely menacing and I think the memory of Julia who is only seen near the end of the series was a more powerful presentation of the character.

That said I don’t think that should stop anyone from enjoying the show!

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:47 pm

First episode down, and I really liked it. They absolutely nailed the style, the atmosphere, and the overall look far better than I expected. Very impressed with Cho as Spike and Shakir is perfect as Jet. Both the new and remixed music from Kanno are sublime. First episode stuck pretty closely to the general plot line of “Asteroid Blues”. Not sure what to make of that ending though.

My only gripes were that all the action sequences felt really slow. Like everyone should be moving at least twice as fast as they do. It’s really weird and kinda distracting. I also think Pineda is completely wrong as Faye (as I feared). She comes across as someone trying to cosplay her who has only seen highlights from the anime. The constant cursing mostly just feels juvenile. Not feeling her in that role at all so far…hoping she gets better.

So far, so good.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:52 pm

Enjoyed the first two episodes tonight. From what little I remember of the anime, they really nailed the mood and style.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:56 pm

Yup we watched two and it is quite good. Vicious is too over the top evil, but eh it doesn't ruin the show.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:57 am

I like it.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:24 am

It feels like one part Sin City, one part Firefly and one part Cowboy Bebop. I enjoyed it, but I can also see some of the criticisms.

paulbaxter · Post by **paulbaxter** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:09 am

Watched ep 1 with the boys last night. We'd watched the original a couple of years ago now. We all had a good time with the new one.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:24 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:24 am I enjoyed it, but I can also see some of the criticisms.

I watched the first 5 episodes last night, and this is where I’m at as well. It’s not nearly as bad as some (most?) of the reviews were making it out to be, but it’s certainly not perfect.

My main issue is that whatever they’re trying to do with Vicious and Julia isn’t working at all. Taking Vicious from a mostly mysterious antagonist in the anime to a front-and-center, one note bad guy was a bad choice. Every scene seems to have him screaming “See how evil I am! Did we mention that I’m evil? Watch this evilness! Did you see that evil? Here I go again doing evil!” Takes him from cool to silly. And I have no idea what they’re doing with Julia, who was mostly just a memory ghost in the original.

They’re kinda doing this with all the characters though. Spike and Faye’s backstories were talked about or hinted at far more subtly in the anime, where they’re spelled out line for line here. It’s like they didn’t trust the audience to piece things together unless they put a giant flashing neon sign over each plot point. That’s kinda disappointing.

It’s odd how the show goes from fun and silly to “gah…WTF” in the blink of an eye. The drug room scene and the tree scene both caught me off guard with their sudden violence and gore. It was an odd and sudden tonal shift.

All that aside, it’s still fun and I’m enjoying it. Watching Jet and Spike is a blast and they have continued to absolutely nail the atmosphere and overall feel.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:50 am

Have to agree with Vicious it was a terrible idea as he's so over the top evil. There are so many better ways they could have included him in the story to boost instead of distract.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:06 pm

It doesn’t help that the actor playing him doesn’t really come across as menacing at all. He’s a slightly less whiny version of Viserys Targaryen, instead of the bad-ass they’re trying to make him out to me. He’s dollar store Sephiroth.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:41 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:06 pm dollar store Sephiroth.

This would make a great song title.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:29 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:24 am It feels like one part Sin City, one part Firefly and one part Cowboy Bebop. I enjoyed it, but I can also see some of the criticisms.

For some reason, it also kind of reminds me of the most recent version of The Tick.
Which I also liked, after I accepted that it wasn't what I was expecting.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:16 am

Finished this tonight. It definitely had it's moments, but overall I think it fell pretty flat and got worse the longer it went. A few random observations:

- I severely underestimated how good John Cho would be as Spike. He was truly fantastic and really carried the show. I now can't see anyone but him in that role. Same with Shakir as Jet.
- Faye got a bit better, but I never really warmed up to her. Something about her just felt...off. Like she was trying too hard or something.
- Read a quote somewhere that said "This show would have been 80% better with 90% less Vicious", and I fully agree. What they tried to do there simply did not work in any way whatsoever. Interestingly, I think they did themselves a big disservice by putting the episode containing nearly all the backstory so near the end. If that would have been sooner, we would have at least had context for the conflict and the dynamics involved. As it is, we're left watching most of the show with a cartoon villain and a "long lost love" without a shred of nuance at all. Big miss there, imo.
- The longer the show went on and the more it drifted into it's own storyline, the less stylized it became. In the first few episodes, it was easy to match up specific scenes, unique camera angles, etc. directly to the anime. However, it's almost like they didn't want to be bothered with any of that for the later episodes, with only the very occasional "oh yeah, we're supposed to reference the source material" shot. Credit where credit's due, they did do a really good job capturing the Cathedral showdown.
- The music was absolutely stellar throughout. No complaints there at all.
- They also did a good job with the established villains (Teddy Bomber, Mad Pierrot, etc.). I especially liked what they did with Pierrot's backstory, which was always rather vague in the anime.

Very, very spoilery thoughts

Spoiler:

Overall, I think I'd give it a C+ grade. Some of the episodes were entertaining and there were a number of things they did right, but they veered so far into nonsense land with the resolution that I don't think I'd be particularly interested in watching another season. Which, judging by the general reaction, I don't think we'll have to worry about.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 am

Was Faye's sex scene in the original? I don't remember that at all...but I don't remember most things.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:58 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:23 am Was Faye's sex scene in the original? I don't remember that at all...but I don't remember most things.

It was not.

Another example of character development that had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the face.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:52 am

Finished last night, and overall I liked it.
I will say, my memory of the original is very fuzzy, so I wasn't constantly comparing what the two.
I do want to go back and rewatch those now though, we'll see if that has any impact on my opinion.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:14 pm

Cancelled:

The space Western had a rough reception. The 10-episode series garnered only a 46 percent positive critics rating on review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes. Fans seemed to agree, giving the show a 56 percent positive audience score on the site. According to Netflix’s Top 10 site, the series has racked up almost 74 million viewing hours worldwide since its debut – so it got plenty of sampling out of the gate – but it plummeted 59 percent for the week of Nov. 29-Dec. 5.