Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon [HBO]

[Holman]

Just here to say that, after two decades of lagging behind everyone else and binging in retrospect, I'm now keeping up with GoT:HotD, LoTR:TRoP, and SW:Andor as they are released.

It's like TV as it was meant to be!

[Blackhawk]

Rule number one: keep away from yahoo news.

Your advice was over-explained. I simplified it for clarity.

[Chraolic]

My understanding is that some of the actors are getting replaced due to a time skip, so the character might not die just because the actor leaves the show. But then again it's Game of Thrones, so I guess also everybody might die.

[JCC]

Eeyargh, I wish people would be careful what they say. I just had a potential turn of events spoiled with a comment from a carefully non-spoiler source that they would miss [performer], as they were likely leaving the show after another episode.

As noted above, that may not be a spoiler at all.

[Sudy]

I was really enjoying this episode until...

Spoiler:

...Laena Valeryon's seemingly senseless death, less than an hour after she'd emerged as an interesting character. I suppose this helps propel Daemon wherever he's going, but I'd rather have seen more of how she challenged and tempered him. No character's longevity is ever guaranteed in this series, but in its serial format it feels like they usually give us a little longer with them. (See also: Harwin.)

A review also mentioned just how undeserved many of the plot's developments are because so much has been skipped in between. I love Matt Smith's Daemon and where they've taken him, but I've got whiplash. Larys is a great character, but we hardly know him or can appreciate his motives. And where the hell did Harwin come from? Was he seen earlier in the series, as a younger actor or otherwise? Not that it matters now, and I'm sure that was part of the thinking. But we didn't even see current Harwin and Larys in the same room together, did we? If we did, perhaps Larys's actions would have had more depth (as fun as they were to watch just as they were).

Was the aging-up of Rhaenyra and Alicent necessary? Why not split the difference and cast actors in the middle of the age spectrum, and blur their ages on screen? Ten years isn't a long time once you're an adult (or close to it), though I accept it wouldn't be as ideal a way to show the characters' initial youth and innocence. Not that the actors replacing them are bad at all... Emma D’Arcy and the way her introduction was shot and performed was incredible. But it's jarring, especially when many of the remaining cast members don't look much older. (Save for Viserys, who may have had a little too much makeup applied, even if his appearance is as much due to his decaying health. The previous episodes set us up to think he'd be dead long before now.)

I don't want answers to this question that contain even slight spoilers, so consider this rhetorical. But other than the source material apparently having a less narrative format, what's the reasoning behind the show's accelerated structure? I thought someone here said they think the source will only give us two or three seasons of content. So why not be more leisurely and fill in some of the blanks? I feel like the pre-jump plot could have lasted a full season. Perhaps the writers were concerned about going too slow before a second season (or even a first) was a foregone conclusion? Because it feels like an overreaction to the story-milking that's so common when these shows stretch on for unplanned seasons and lose their way.

[McNutt]

Spoiler:

Was the aging-up of Rhaenyra and Alicent necessary? Why not split the difference and cast actors in the middle of the age spectrum, and blur their ages on screen? Ten years isn't a long time once you're an adult (or close to it), though I accept it wouldn't be as ideal a way to show the characters' initial youth and innocence.

Spoiler:

I thought it was pretty believable when they did it with Nigel Terry in Excalibur. He went from a teen to a middle-aged man pretty convincingly. However I think they did it because they wanted to impress upon people just how young those characters were at first. It was probably necessary for Rhaenyra as she looked 12 in the first episode. For the rest of the cast I think it was completely unnecessary.

I was a little confused when watching this episode. I saw some headline talking about the time shift before I saw the episode (thanks MSN) and for some reason was expecting this to be a one-episode thing. It was only midway through the episode that I realized this was a permanent shift. I know, I'm not that quick. I was also having a hard time figuring out which kid was which.

[Jaymann]

I was glad for the new princess actress, the young one annoyed me. The queen not so much. But I was confused by:

Spoiler:

Harwin siring 3 children with the princess?!? I thought Cole was her main squeeze. Was she obligated to get busy with whomever was captain of the guard?

[McNutt]

Spoiler:

I'm guessing that Cole wanted nothing to do with her after his great self shaming and had become a loyal protector of the Queen. He's going to do her bidding without question.

[Smoove_B]

I'll agree with Sudy; I found the changes for this week to be jarring.

Spoiler:

I do think it reinforced how young Alicent and Rhaenyra were in the first part, but jumping 10 years was a lot to absorb (for them and all the other characters). Clearly so much has changed, not only between them but now their children have relationships. I understand it was likely necessary but I'm wondering if connecting with this new version of the cast will happen in the few episodes are left. I guess we'll see.

[pr0ner]

I was glad for the new princess actress, the young one annoyed me. The queen not so much. But I was confused by:

Spoiler:

Harwin siring 3 children with the princess?!? I thought Cole was her main squeeze. Was she obligated to get busy with whomever was captain of the guard?

I thought it was pretty clear last week what was going to happen with Cole.

[JCC]

By far, my least favorite episode. Jarring is putting it mildly. Incredibly confusing. I need context for all these dramatic changes other than "x years later".

[McNutt]

It was certainly jarring, but story wise it was my favorite episode so far.

[pr0ner]

By far, my least favorite episode. Jarring is putting it mildly. Incredibly confusing. I need context for all these dramatic changes other than "x years later".

What more context do you need than that?

[msteelers]

I’m surprised by the reaction to the time jump. I thought they did an excellent job of handling it. When we pick back up with everybody, the characters are all where you would expect them to be, IMO. Or at least are in believable spots based on what they showed us last episode.

Then again, I knew the time jump was coming. I thought that was an open part of the promotion for the show, like with The Crown.

I was especially nervous because with shows like this I identify people by their faces more than their names. But I didn’t have any issues really. The only character that took me a moment to recognize was Harwin Strong, and I’m pretty sure that was the same actor!

[Sudy]

I guess for me it's more disappointment over losing the younger actors who were doing such a good job. And there was definitely some confusion but I agree they did a pretty good job with the jump.

[JCC]

What more context do you need than that?

Off the top of my head, why did Daemon who did little else before the time jump than try nefarious schemes to try to achieve his ambitions, apparently just wile away the last ten years bored with his family in the same place?

Why exactly, did Rhaenyra take up with someone else when inexplicably Criston is still around and apparently faced no reprucussions for brutally murdering someone at the feast we watched last week? It's one thing if royalty did this, but a palace guard faces no consequences for that?

[msteelers]

Off the top of my head, why did Daemon who did little else before the time jump than try nefarious schemes to try to achieve his ambitions, apparently just wile away the last ten years bored with his family in the same place?

I think you're supposed to understand that they've been traveling a lot (not staying in the same place). And the fact that he was able to actually get past his impotence problems and have a couple of children with her implies he actually loved her. To whatever extent he's capable of at least. He complained about feeling constricted by her, but I'm not sure how much he meant it. I took his outburst as a misdirection from what he's really feeling.

Why exactly, did Rhaenyra take up with someone else when inexplicably Criston is still around and apparently faced no reprucussions for brutally murdering someone at the feast we watched last week? It's one thing if royalty did this, but a palace guard faces no consequences for that?

Criston was protected by the queen. The simple public explanation could be that Joffrey pulled a knife on Criston, which is actually true. Sure, it was after Criston started the fight... but who would have any standing to argue the public story? Everyone who would push back against the story had more to gain by staying quiet.

Rhaenyra took up with someone else because that was the agreement. The incident with Criston would make her more selective, probably. Plus, she needed to pump out some heirs.

I guess for me it's more disappointment over losing the younger actors who were doing such a good job. And there was definitely some confusion but I agree they did a pretty good job with the jump.

The younger actors did a fantastic job, for sure.

[hepcat]

I think it’s cool that

Spoiler:

Instead of a Clock Tower, prince Aegon gives his people a Cock Tower. I’m assuming that he masturbates on a set schedule so that the people of King’s Landing can just look up and tell what time it is by the direction he’s aiming.

“Forsooth, it must be high noon as the spunk doth fly.”

Also, they stole that scene from The Boys.

Also, I really don’t care if anyone on this show dies (with the possible exception of medieval Ray Donovan). It’s kind of freeing to watch every week and not care about any of them to any real extent.

[Blackhawk]

I am enjoying the show, but I didn't enjoy that episode. Too much happened too fast, and I was left confused far too often to have been able to make much sense of the plot.

Two things going on here that I disliked:

Episode 1-4: Setting up big events.
Episode 5: Big events happen, but are not resolved.
Episode 6: Big events were resolved a decade ago, so there's no need to explain what happened, and we just have to figure out what domino 5 did by what domino 37 is doing now.

And

Episode 2: Someone briefly mentions character and points to them in the distance.
Episode 5: Character is a background character sipping a drink in the corner.
Episode 6, 22 minutes in: Character is a vital and dramatic part of the cast and playing a major role.
Episode 6, 45 minutes in: Character dies a dramatic death that it's obvious I'm supposed to be shocked and awed over.
Me: Huh? Who was that again?

Maybe it all makes sense if you're coming to it from the book, but from my unread perspective, it's a bewildering series of scenes with little connection to what came before.

[hepcat]

I’ve not read any of the books. But I’ve not had that much trouble tracking who’s who and what’s what. However, I do have trouble actually SEEING what’s happening. Does anyone else think the show is way too dark…literally, not figuratively?

[McNutt]

Yes, it's very, very dark.

I remember one scene where the gay husband, can't remember the names of anyone, came to the rescue riding a dragon. I had zero idea of who that was in that scene.

[Sudy]

Episode 2: Someone briefly mentions character and points to them in the distance.
Episode 5: Character is a background character sipping a drink in the corner.
Episode 6, 22 minutes in: Character is a vital and dramatic part of the cast and playing a major role.
Episode 6, 45 minutes in: Character dies a dramatic death that it's obvious I'm supposed to be shocked and awed over.
Me: Huh? Who was that again?

So Harwin was in the show before this episode. So... those scenes were written for readers and/or people watching for the second time? Bizarre. What would be the harm in putting him in the plot sooner? I don't see the downside.

[pr0ner]

I’ve not read any of the books. But I’ve not had that much trouble tracking who’s who and what’s what. However, I do have trouble actually SEEING what’s happening. Does anyone else think the show is way too dark…literally, not figuratively?

I'm watching in 4K/HDR on HBOMax (so my TV's backlight is set to maximum) and I don't find it too dark.

[hepcat]

4K HDR here as well. Game of Thrones had the same issue for many folks too. So it's not new. You'd think they'd have addressed it for the new series though. If you have to issue statements blaming people for not tuning their televisions correctly, you may want to reevaluate your style of cinematography.

[msteelers]

I heard a joking suggestion that cinematic TV shows like this should have a calibration screen before each episode like they do with video games.

Change your sliders until the dragon is barely visible.

[pr0ner]

4K HDR here as well. Game of Thrones had the same issue for many folks too. So it's not new. You'd think they'd have addressed it for the new series though. If you have to issue statements blaming people for not tuning their televisions correctly, you may want to reevaluate your style of cinematography.

I haven't had issues figuring out what's going on on screen in either GoT or HotD.

But I also have my TV calibrated properly.

[Exodor]

It's almost comically dark. The scene where the kid was exploring the dragon pen was almost just black.

I'm having a hard time getting into this show because none of the characters other than Matt Smith make any impression at all. By ep6 of GoT we had Tyrion, Jamie, Arya, Varys and a host of other distinct characters that were fun to watch. In this show we've got 30 characters who all have some variation of the same 3 names and none of them make any impression at all.

[hepcat]

If I'm watching dozens of shows without a single issue and one of them is too dark...to the point that enough people are complaining about it that it becomes both a running joke and a point of irritation for the maker....then it's on them, not me.

[pr0ner]

It's almost comically dark. The scene where the kid was exploring the dragon pen was almost just black.

He was down in what's basically a cave where he's not supposed to be anyway. How bright do you want it to be?

If I'm watching dozens of shows without a single issue and one of them is too dark...to the point that enough people are complaining about it that it becomes both a running joke and a point of irritation for the maker....then it's on them, not me.

Maybe because the show has a larger number of eyeballs on it and the owners of those eyeballs are likely to complain about everything? This thread is a good example of it - a majority of the posts are people complaining about, well, everything.

[hepcat]

Maybe because they want someone to fix the issues so they can enjoy the show?

Bashing people for complaining about something only works if you haven't complained about anything yourself, pal. You want a taste of these fists of steel? Cause you're gettin' a buffet of 'em, buddy! Get over here!

p.s. to prove my point, here's a screenshot of Exodor's aforementioned scene in the dragon cave:

[Exodor]

It's almost comically dark. The scene where the kid was exploring the dragon pen was almost just black.

He was down in what's basically a cave where he's not supposed to be anyway. How bright do you want it to be?

Bright enough to be able to see the actor or anything around them?

Maybe because the show has a larger number of eyeballs on it and the owners of those eyeballs are likely to complain about everything? This thread is a good example of it - a majority of the posts are people complaining about, well, everything.

I think "you can't see anything" is a pretty valid complaint.

[hepcat]

One thing I've read is that you really should only watch the show in a dark room due to the way they film it. Any light whatsoever will wash out a lot of the on screen lighting. I tend to watch it Mondays after I get home from work as I happily dine on a Pita Inn combination plate consisting of beef and lamb kefta, chicken shawarma and home made falafels...

...where was I?

....oh yeah...

...so I'm watching it while it's somewhat bright outside. And even though my tv is turned away from the windows, it still gets some light on it.

But that's really the only show I can think of where watching it during the day almost completely blacks out any scenes taking place at night/in a dark place.

[pr0ner]

It's almost comically dark. The scene where the kid was exploring the dragon pen was almost just black.

He was down in what's basically a cave where he's not supposed to be anyway. How bright do you want it to be?

Bright enough to be able to see the actor or anything around them?

Maybe because the show has a larger number of eyeballs on it and the owners of those eyeballs are likely to complain about everything? This thread is a good example of it - a majority of the posts are people complaining about, well, everything.

I think "you can't see anything" is a pretty valid complaint.

I mean, he's in a cave. It's not like he was on a beach during broad daylight like Rhaenyra and Laenor in last week's episode. Plus, the dragon appearing and then breathing fire would lose its impact if the rest of the scene were too brightly lit.

Also...

One thing I've read is that you really should only watch the show in a dark room due to the way they film it. Any light whatsoever will wash out a lot of the on screen lighting.

This is a well made point. I've stopped watching episodes of shows like The Expanse I was watching during the day because reflections from the daylight outside made things hard to see and waited for night to watch them. Parts of that show are *dark*, too (Season 4, I'm looking at you), and yet that issue doesn't get the uproar GoT/HotD does.

TV review sites make a big deal out of reflection handling and what TVs are good for bright rooms and what TVs are good for dark rooms for these reasons.

[pr0ner]

What more context do you need than that?

Off the top of my head, why did Daemon who did little else before the time jump than try nefarious schemes to try to achieve his ambitions, apparently just wile away the last ten years bored with his family in the same place?

Why exactly, did Rhaenyra take up with someone else when inexplicably Criston is still around and apparently faced no reprucussions for brutally murdering someone at the feast we watched last week? It's one thing if royalty did this, but a palace guard faces no consequences for that?

1) To add to what msteelers said, during one of his conversations with Laena, he said it was nice to be used for once. To be away from all the politics and scheming. He enjoyed just being able to do whatever he wanted, ambitions be damned.

2) The Cole situation is pretty easy to get. He was upset with Rhaenyra for rebuffing his offer to run to Essos and get married and be together. He was guilt ridden over that and killing Joffrey, and Alicent was the one who stopped him from committing suicide by the heart tree. He wasn't going to go back to the princess after that, not with what Alicent knows about him and how the princess treated him.

[hepcat]

This is a well made point. I've stopped watching episodes of shows like The Expanse I was watching during the day because reflections from the daylight outside made things hard to see and waited for night to watch them. Parts of that show are *dark*, too (Season 4, I'm looking at you), and yet that issue doesn't get the uproar GoT/HotD does.

I watched The Expanse during the day on a few occasions and never had the same issues I have had with GoT and HotD. I really do think the latter two have some issues that are due to the way they film things.

[EvilHomer3k]

This may be dark but it's nowhere near the levels of darkness that a certain episode of GoT was.

I completely agree with the comments about not really caring about anyone. I have hopes that it changes. They've started to make some characters have more of an impression. The show does completely lack in humor. GoT, completely absent of Tyrion and Bronn had significantly more playful banter than HoTD so far.

I much prefer the new Rhaenera actress to the old one.

The time jump was a bit jarring but I don't think it was done poorly. It was a big jump and a lot of things had to change but the characters did seem to end up in a place that you could reason they'd end up.

My one issue with the show was:

Spoiler:

How did the bandits get into the castle to burn it down? I suppose the brother/son probably knew some secret way in but what was his motivation? There seemed to be no remorse there at all. It was a bit jarring. I'm not sure how it advanced the queen's agenda or even the brother's unless he wanted to inherit the castle he burned. Just a bit odd overall.

[El Guapo]

What more context do you need than that?

Off the top of my head, why did Daemon who did little else before the time jump than try nefarious schemes to try to achieve his ambitions, apparently just wile away the last ten years bored with his family in the same place?

Why exactly, did Rhaenyra take up with someone else when inexplicably Criston is still around and apparently faced no reprucussions for brutally murdering someone at the feast we watched last week? It's one thing if royalty did this, but a palace guard faces no consequences for that?

1) To add to what msteelers said, during one of his conversations with Laena, he said it was nice to be used for once. To be away from all the politics and scheming. He enjoyed just being able to do whatever he wanted, ambitions be damned.

2) The Cole situation is pretty easy to get. He was upset with Rhaenyra for rebuffing his offer to run to Essos and get married and be together. He was guilt ridden over that and killing Joffrey, and Alicent was the one who stopped him from committing suicide by the heart tree. He wasn't going to go back to the princess after that, not with what Alicent knows about him and how the princess treated him.

Re: the Cole stuff

Spoiler:

Yeah the Cole stuff I'm honestly confused about what's so confusing about that. Last episode it was really clear that Cole was done with Rhaenyra and moving towards Alicent. Cole was and is a man of honor who takes his vows seriously. He could live with what he did with Rhaenyra if it was for love (hence the marriage proposal), but when Rhaenyra both rebuffs that and makes clear that she's fine with continuing to bang him on the side, he *really* doesn't like that ("you want me to be your whore???").

The stuff with Alicent is almost all off-screen during the 10 year time jump. But we do (last episode) see her stop Cole from killing himself, so he owes her his life to start. And more than that, if Cole hates Rhaenyra then Alicent is a natural ally, since: (1) Alicent and Rhaenyra hate each other; (2) Alicent, unlike Rhaenyra, is, you know, not a whore; (3) Alicent at least cares about honor and decency in a way that Rhaenyra doesn't.

That said, with both the Cole stuff and the Daemon stuff, and a few other different ways, the show is limited to some degree by the time jumps. They may have been necessary given the time frames involved (I guess the only alternative would be to start where this episode is and then include a lot of expository back story) but it has limited the show's ability to give full depth to a lot of the show's events.

Are we done with time jumps, by the way? Hopefully so.

[hepcat]

I much prefer the new Rhaenera actress to the old one.

She looked familiar when she showed up, then I realized where I'd seen her before. She was on Truth Seekers. A goofy, fun show on Amazon Prime featuring Simon Peg and Nick Frost. I think I understand why there was no season 2 for Truth Seekers now.

Are we done with time jumps, by the way? Hopefully so.[/spoiler]

The end of season 1 will see the final jump to 1980s Utah. I'm looking forward to seeing a dragon fight set to the music of New Order.

[El Guapo]

My one issue with the show was:

Spoiler:

How did the bandits get into the castle to burn it down? I suppose the brother/son probably knew some secret way in but what was his motivation? There seemed to be no remorse there at all. It was a bit jarring. I'm not sure how it advanced the queen's agenda or even the brother's unless he wanted to inherit the castle he burned. Just a bit odd overall.

Spoiler:

The bandits were clearly acting at the direction of the Strong brother (they were the ones that he had the tongues removed from earlier in the episode). So presumably the brother gave them guidance on and access to the castle.

It advanced the brother's agenda pretty clearly, in that: (1) He will now inherit Herrenhal; and (2) the Queen owes him (even if she is simultaneously horrified).

It aids the Queen a little more indirectly, but the main thing is that it removes Lyonel Strong as Hand of the King. As the Queen noted to the Strong brother in the episode Lyonel was not biased in her favor (she mostly de facto supported Rhaenyra). So the King will have to find a new Hand, who will hopefully be at least not biased against Alicent. One implication is that Alicent will probably try to bring back Otto as Hand again.

[Jaymann]

The darkness doesn't bother me. I have captions on and it's like reading a kindle book.