I can only imagine.If everything had gone according to plan, California would have approved new guidelines this month for math education in public schools.
But ever since a draft was opened for public comment in February, the recommendations have set off a fierce debate over not only how to teach math, but also how to solve a problem more intractable than Fermat’s last theorem: closing the racial and socioeconomic disparities in achievement that persist at every level of math education.
The California guidelines, which are not binding, could overhaul the way many school districts approach math instruction. The draft rejected the idea of naturally gifted children, recommended against shifting certain students into accelerated courses in middle school and tried to promote high-level math courses that could serve as alternatives to calculus, like data science or statistics.
The draft also suggested that math should not be colorblind and that teachers could use lessons to explore social justice — for example, by looking out for gender stereotypes in word problems, or applying math concepts to topics like immigration or inequality.
...
Even in heavily Democratic California — a state with six million public school students and an outsize influence on textbook publishing nationwide — the draft guidelines encountered scathing criticism, with charges that the framework would inject “woke” politics into a subject that is supposed to be practical and precise.
Should social justice be part of math education?
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- Little Raven
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Should social justice be part of math education?
California says maybe.
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\/ window into Outside Over There."
\/ window into Outside Over There."
- Jaymann
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
Sample math problem:
Which group will be most capable of fixing structural mathematical inequity?
A. 50 million white males
B. 10,000 white women
C. 500 transgender individuals
D. 1 black woman
Which group will be most capable of fixing structural mathematical inequity?
A. 50 million white males
B. 10,000 white women
C. 500 transgender individuals
D. 1 black woman
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- AWS260
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
This is the much more important element of the draft guidelines, in my view (and in fairness to the NYT, most of their article is focused on this, not the social justice portion).The California guidelines, which are not binding, could overhaul the way many school districts approach math instruction. The draft rejected the idea of naturally gifted children, recommended against shifting certain students into accelerated courses in middle school and tried to promote high-level math courses that could serve as alternatives to calculus, like data science or statistics.
I am not a Californian, but I have seen enough of New York City's "gifted and talented" program to know that it's an engine for preserving inequity. There's an entire cottage industry devoted to helping children get into gifted programs, which of course only well-off families can afford.
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
Gifted and talented has always been part of public school and there were no extra charges in Texas.AWS260 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:00 pm I am not a Californian, but I have seen enough of New York City's "gifted and talented" program to know that it's an engine for preserving inequity. There's an entire cottage industry devoted to helping children get into gifted programs, which of course only well-off families can afford.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Remus West
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
Being in the programs doesn't cost more. Getting extra tutoring and preparation so that your child is placed into the program is another matter entirely. You're being naive if you think there is not a much higher percentage of "gifted and talented" among well off families that has nothing to do with natural ability.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:48 amGifted and talented has always been part of public school and there were no extra charges in Texas.AWS260 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:00 pm I am not a Californian, but I have seen enough of New York City's "gifted and talented" program to know that it's an engine for preserving inequity. There's an entire cottage industry devoted to helping children get into gifted programs, which of course only well-off families can afford.
That said, lowering the bar because some people have an advantage in clearing it doesn't seem like a good method of raising overall achievement. They would be better off funding things like head start programs and after school programs that provide the extra support for those that have the talent but not the resources.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- noxiousdog
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
I'm sure it depends on the state and the program. There's no test to prepare for here either. It's an interview. To get to the interview you overrate your kid's abilities and get their teachers to do the same. I'd be far less concerned about small programs like that, and far more about private schools.Remus West wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:15 am Being in the programs doesn't cost more. Getting extra tutoring and preparation so that your child is placed into the program is another matter entirely. You're being naive if you think there is not a much higher percentage of "gifted and talented" among well off families that has nothing to do with natural ability.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Little Raven
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
This is true, but just leads to another form of discrimination. The Texas system rewards children who are lucky enough to have parents involved enough to lobby on their child’s behalf. Any parent devoted enough to the cause can probably get their child in, but a bright kid with checked out parents is likely to be left by the wayside.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:26 am There's no test to prepare for here either. It's an interview. To get to the interview you overrate your kid's abilities and get their teachers to do the same. I'd be far less concerned about small programs like that, and far more about private schools.
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- noxiousdog
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
No, they really can't. The classes are too small.Little Raven wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:55 amThis is true, but just leads to another form of discrimination. The Texas system rewards children who are lucky enough to have parents involved enough to lobby on their child’s behalf. Any parent devoted enough to the cause can probably get their child in, but a bright kid with checked out parents is likely to be left by the wayside.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:26 am There's no test to prepare for here either. It's an interview. To get to the interview you overrate your kid's abilities and get their teachers to do the same. I'd be far less concerned about small programs like that, and far more about private schools.
To be honest, I don't really care. The solution is not to end G&T programs. Democratize it? Sure. But it's not a pay for play scheme, and we should be enhancing it, not complaining about it.
I'm very bothered by any philosophy that making everybody average is the right solution, and that's what it sounds like you guys are saying.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:01 am I'm very bothered by any philosophy that making everybody average is the right solution, and that's what it sounds like you guys are saying.
"Harrison Bergeron, age fourteen," she said in a grackle squawk, "has just escaped from jail, where he was held on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government. He is a genius and an athlete, is under-handicapped, and should be regarded as extremely dangerous."
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- RunningMn9
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
I obviously didn’t grow up in modern times, but in ye olden times, parents were completely uninvolved in G/T selection. Teachers nominated students based on assessments they made during the year working with the student.
When my kids where in grade school it was the same thing. A letter came home saying that our son was selected. A couple of weeks later he realized that it involved doing extra work, and he was promptly asked to stop coming.
By that time, schools here realized that you can be gifted or talented in things other than math which were worth encouraging and my daughter was selected for artistic ability. I don’t remember how long that lasted.
At no point in the process where my wife and I involved, beyond approving their entry/exit from the program.
When my kids where in grade school it was the same thing. A letter came home saying that our son was selected. A couple of weeks later he realized that it involved doing extra work, and he was promptly asked to stop coming.
By that time, schools here realized that you can be gifted or talented in things other than math which were worth encouraging and my daughter was selected for artistic ability. I don’t remember how long that lasted.
At no point in the process where my wife and I involved, beyond approving their entry/exit from the program.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- noxiousdog
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
I have no idea how much weight is placed on teacher assessment vs. parental assessment. I just know we got a questionnaire.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Remus West
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
AGreed.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:01 amI'm very bothered by any philosophy that making everybody average is the right solution, and that's what it sounds like you guys are saying.
I'm not on board with the way G&T programs are run but I'm even less on board with saying we shouldn't push those who are capable to do more/deeper thinking.
What we should be doing is looking for a way to equalize access not eliminate opportunity.
Also, there is way more that goes into it than just what happens in school. Economic stresses as well as social stresses play their own part in maintaining the status quo of these programs.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- noxiousdog
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
Indeed. We are in agreement.Remus West wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:49 amAGreed.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:01 amI'm very bothered by any philosophy that making everybody average is the right solution, and that's what it sounds like you guys are saying.
I'm not on board with the way G&T programs are run but I'm even less on board with saying we shouldn't push those who are capable to do more/deeper thinking.
What we should be doing is looking for a way to equalize access not eliminate opportunity.
Also, there is way more that goes into it than just what happens in school. Economic stresses as well as social stresses play their own part in maintaining the status quo of these programs.
Black Lives Matter
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Defiant
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
I don't think eliminating advanced classes and holding back kids that can do more is a good idea, so I agree with this:
And now I want to rewatch Stand and Deliver.
I'd also say increase the resources/classes so that all students that are capable of doing well in such classes can take them, rather than forcing them to compete with each other and choosing the top 30 or whatever.Remus West wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:15 am That said, lowering the bar because some people have an advantage in clearing it doesn't seem like a good method of raising overall achievement. They would be better off funding things like head start programs and after school programs that provide the extra support for those that have the talent but not the resources.
And now I want to rewatch Stand and Deliver.
- TheMix
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
I don't know if I have ever watched it from start to finish, but I will automatically stop channel surfing and watch it if it's on. Excellent movie. Olmos is brilliant as the teacher.
Black Lives Matter
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- RunningMn9
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
Yeah, to clarify, I am only speaking about the school districts I grew up in, in NY and NJ, and the school district that my kids went through in NJ. Presumably the process is different in different districts/states.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:43 am I have no idea how much weight is placed on teacher assessment vs. parental assessment. I just know we got a questionnaire.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Should social justice be part of math education?
In HS, third period was routinely hijacked for writing practice to prep for the standardized test. Didn't matter what the subject was, it was "writing day".
It's almost as if people are the problem.