MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:07 pm Here's hoping the owners try to start the season with all minor league players.
I was going to say, good luck finding replacement players in this labor market, especially if you can't bring in migrant workers from Cuba or Dominican Republic.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Mets hire Buck Showalter as manager. I always liked Buck even though that may not solve anything. Old school.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote:Mets hire Buck Showalter as manager. I always liked Buck even though that may not solve anything. Old school.
Old school, or just old?
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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I mean, the year after you fire him is usually pretty good.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:07 pm Here's hoping the owners try to start the season with all minor league players.
Here's hoping the players get their fair share of the revenue they generate for the owners.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Exodor wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:14 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:07 pm Here's hoping the owners try to start the season with all minor league players.
Here's hoping the players get their fair share of the revenue they generate for the owners.
I agree with that, I just want to see the disaster of replacement players.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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That sucks. I won’t be surprised if it turns out to be related to steroid use.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Deadline missed for labor settlement. Season will be shortened at a minimum.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:14 am That sucks. I won’t be surprised if it turns out to be related to steroid use.
USA Today
Former major league outfielder Jeremy Giambi's death has been ruled a suicide by the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner.

Giambi, 47, was found dead in his mother's home in Claremont, California, on Wednesday morning. A report released by the coroner's office listed the cause of death as a gunshot wound to the chest.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Another strike settlement deadline missed. MLB has now cancelled opening day and the first 4 series of the year.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 7:54 pm Another strike settlement deadline missed. MLB has now cancelled opening day and the first 4 series of the year.
Lockout, not a strike.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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I saw a headline that said an agreement has been reached to stop the lockout.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:47 pm I saw a headline that said an agreement has been reached to stop the lockout.
Yeah, tentative deal being reported on NYT and ESPN. Haven't seen much about the details yet.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Details:
What to know and what's next?

Opening Day moves to April 7 and a full 162-game schedule will be played

Spring training camps open with a March 11 voluntary report date and March 13 mandatory date

Spring training games start March 17

Free agency to begin immediately once CBA is ratified

Playoffs expand to 12 teams, beginning this season

The National League adopts the designated hitter starting this season

CBT expected to begin at $230 million and grow to $244 million
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:17 pm Details:
What to know and what's next?

Opening Day moves to April 7 and a full 162-game schedule will be played

Spring training camps open with a March 11 voluntary report date and March 13 mandatory date

Spring training games start March 17

Free agency to begin immediately once CBA is ratified

Playoffs expand to 12 teams, beginning this season

The National League adopts the designated hitter starting this season

CBT expected to begin at $230 million and grow to $244 million
That all seems reasonable. Play ball!
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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That seems like the players got very little and the owners got a ton. Still doesn't appear to be a salary floor, the owners got more revenue by placing ads on uniforms and an expanded playoff, and the cap is going up very little with no restructuring of the luxury tax so it is really a hard cap despite the name. Sad.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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MLB
The new five-year CBA is expected to include increased minimum salaries, a new pre-arbitration bonus pool to reward the top young players in the game, a raise in competitive balance tax thresholds, the introduction of a universal designated hitter, the widest-ranging Draft lottery in pro sports, a system to prevent alleged service-time manipulation, limits on the number of times a player can be optioned in a season and a 12-team postseason. There will also be the evaluation of an international Draft.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Ringer article on the new agreement

This seems about right. Deal is probably better for the owners than the players mainly since it doesn't keep the owners from continuing to be selfish dicks, but it's probably about the best that they could've done without a major labor war which itself would've had an uncertain outcome for them.

But honestly, I'm happy with this. I do like baseball quite a bit and missing most or all of the season would've been a major bummer. I really do wish there was stuff in here to incentivize owners to try to compete, but trying to get owners to agree to a system that would actually limit their ability to be rich selfish dicks is a tall order.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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El Guapo wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:37 pm Ringer article on the new agreement

This seems about right. Deal is probably better for the owners than the players mainly since it doesn't keep the owners from continuing to be selfish dicks, but it's probably about the best that they could've done without a major labor war which itself would've had an uncertain outcome for them.

But honestly, I'm happy with this. I do like baseball quite a bit and missing most or all of the season would've been a major bummer. I really do wish there was stuff in here to incentivize owners to try to compete, but trying to get owners to agree to a system that would actually limit their ability to be rich selfish dicks is a tall order.
Baseball is perfect for a relegation system, but as you say, "rich selfish dicks" is an impossible hurdle.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:54 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:37 pm Ringer article on the new agreement

This seems about right. Deal is probably better for the owners than the players mainly since it doesn't keep the owners from continuing to be selfish dicks, but it's probably about the best that they could've done without a major labor war which itself would've had an uncertain outcome for them.

But honestly, I'm happy with this. I do like baseball quite a bit and missing most or all of the season would've been a major bummer. I really do wish there was stuff in here to incentivize owners to try to compete, but trying to get owners to agree to a system that would actually limit their ability to be rich selfish dicks is a tall order.
Baseball is perfect for a relegation system, but as you say, "rich selfish dicks" is an impossible hurdle.
How would a relegation system work in baseball, given that most/all of the minor league players (and I'm assuming here that you're talking about relegation between major and minor leagues) are under contract with the major league ballclubs? Putting aside the infrastructure issues of trying to support a major league club out of a minor league stadium in, say, Des Moines, and even assuming that the top tier minor league clubs would be as or more competitive than the bottom tier major league clubs (which is a big assumption, IMO), how would that even work from a contracts perspective?

People bring up relegation with respect to baseball a lot, but the fundamental structure of baseball doesn't seem to me to support it. I'm truly interested in how it might work, though.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Yeah, I have no clue how relegation would work in baseball.

Same issue as with relegation working for soccer in the US.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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I just saw they eliminated the runner on base in extra innings. Here's to 19 inning games! Mo baseball.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:32 pm I just saw they eliminated the runner on base in extra innings. Here's to 19 inning games! Mo baseball.
I'm glad - that was just too weird and arbitrary.

What I think they should do require all pitchers in extra innings to be position players. Would increase extra inning scoring like the free runner does, plus it would be far more entertaining.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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noxiousdog wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 12:54 pm
El Guapo wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 11:37 pm Ringer article on the new agreement

This seems about right. Deal is probably better for the owners than the players mainly since it doesn't keep the owners from continuing to be selfish dicks, but it's probably about the best that they could've done without a major labor war which itself would've had an uncertain outcome for them.

But honestly, I'm happy with this. I do like baseball quite a bit and missing most or all of the season would've been a major bummer. I really do wish there was stuff in here to incentivize owners to try to compete, but trying to get owners to agree to a system that would actually limit their ability to be rich selfish dicks is a tall order.
Baseball is perfect for a relegation system, but as you say, "rich selfish dicks" is an impossible hurdle.
Yeah I love relegation as a concept, but with no U.S. sports using it (so it being a completely foreign concept) getting it implemented in baseball would be an impossible task.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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:D

Anywho now that the season is back on, I can't wait to read about all the free agents that the Red Sox aren't signing.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm :D

Anywho now that the season is back on, I can't wait to read about all the free agents that the Red Sox aren't signing.
On the flip side the Yankees are pretty much screwed and have to sign free agents urgently. We'll see what's up when they collide at opening day on April 7th.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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malchior wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:59 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:56 pm :D

Anywho now that the season is back on, I can't wait to read about all the free agents that the Red Sox aren't signing.
On the flip side the Yankees are pretty much screwed and have to sign free agents urgently. We'll see what's up when they collide at opening day on April 7th.
The upside, such as it is, is that the Yankees are equally parsimonious these days so at least there's competitive balance between the two.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:44 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:32 pm I just saw they eliminated the runner on base in extra innings. Here's to 19 inning games! Mo baseball.
I'm glad - that was just too weird and arbitrary.

What I think they should do require all pitchers in extra innings to be position players. Would increase extra inning scoring like the free runner does, plus it would be far more entertaining.
You want to make Ohtani more valuable?
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:21 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:44 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:32 pm I just saw they eliminated the runner on base in extra innings. Here's to 19 inning games! Mo baseball.
I'm glad - that was just too weird and arbitrary.

What I think they should do require all pitchers in extra innings to be position players. Would increase extra inning scoring like the free runner does, plus it would be far more entertaining.
You want to make Ohtani more valuable?
Yes! The more Ohtanis the better.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:30 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:21 pm
El Guapo wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:44 pm
Jaymann wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:32 pm I just saw they eliminated the runner on base in extra innings. Here's to 19 inning games! Mo baseball.
I'm glad - that was just too weird and arbitrary.

What I think they should do require all pitchers in extra innings to be position players. Would increase extra inning scoring like the free runner does, plus it would be far more entertaining.
You want to make Ohtani more valuable?
Yes! The more Ohtanis the better.
That's the point, you don't get more Ohtanis. The last one was Babe Ruth. You have to go to the Negroes Leagues to get more two-way greats of their caliber and there were maybe 3 or 4?

So all you can really do is make Ohtani that mich more valuable.


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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 3:38 pm Dpuble-duty Radcliffe
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:12 pm How would a relegation system work in baseball, given that most/all of the minor league players (and I'm assuming here that you're talking about relegation between major and minor leagues) are under contract with the major league ballclubs? Putting aside the infrastructure issues of trying to support a major league club out of a minor league stadium in, say, Des Moines, and even assuming that the top tier minor league clubs would be as or more competitive than the bottom tier major league clubs (which is a big assumption, IMO), how would that even work from a contracts perspective?

People bring up relegation with respect to baseball a lot, but the fundamental structure of baseball doesn't seem to me to support it. I'm truly interested in how it might work, though.
It would have a transition period, but the contracts are easy. You keep the 40 man rosters and loan players for development to the minor league clubs. I would assume you'd have to divest of 2 club ownership.

Top minor league clubs wouldn't be competitive until they decided they wanted to be; though to be honest, the better way to do it would be to split the majors in half. The top 16 records become the highest level and the bottom 16 become AAAA or whatever moniker they want to put on it. Put some kind of 5 year implementation plan or average record over that span, or whatever. TV revenue can be split (obviously not evenly) amongst leagues that want to participate in the hierarches. The draft and arbitration becomes completely unnecessary.

Baseball has an entrenched monopoly that should be broken up. Unlike other sports, there's plenty of professional leagues that play along side.

The idea of a Des Moines ever making it to the majors would likely be ridiculous, but that's not really the point. It's to prevent tanking, reward winning, and it allows cities like say San Antonio to not be locked out of the system to satisfy the cartel's monopoly.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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The idea of splitting up the majors into two divisions isn't one I'd heard before, and that would certainly be more workable than trying to do something within the structure of the existing MLB/MiLB construct. I can't imagine that half of the major league owners would be willing to take such a hit on their investments, though. I don't chalk that up to "rich selfish dicks", though. Seems more like rational economic behavior to me.

I still think San Antonio gets locked out in this system, though, unless you're proposing a mixture of splitting the majors and also allowing promotion from the minors. And I mention Des Moines because they are the home to the Cubs AAA farm team, so they are in theory at the next level down of competition in today's game.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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ImLawBoy wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 4:39 pm The idea of splitting up the majors into two divisions isn't one I'd heard before, and that would certainly be more workable than trying to do something within the structure of the existing MLB/MiLB construct. I can't imagine that half of the major league owners would be willing to take such a hit on their investments, though. I don't chalk that up to "rich selfish dicks", though. Seems more like rational economic behavior to me.
They can work in economic compensation if they wanted to. These are multi billionaires in nearly all cases and can value the change in a business. If not, they can hire someone.

Still won't happen. But I can dream.
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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so you can no longer shift? WTF, why is that a big deal that they do that? Isn't that part of the strategy?
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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naednek wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:46 am so you can no longer shift? WTF, why is that a big deal that they do that? Isn't that part of the strategy?
I had not heard that. That is flat out crazy. What about when the winning run is on third with bases loaded? No bringing the outfielders in?
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Re: MLB 2021-22 Offseason

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Jaymann wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 1:18 am
naednek wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:46 am so you can no longer shift? WTF, why is that a big deal that they do that? Isn't that part of the strategy?
I had not heard that. That is flat out crazy. What about when the winning run is on third with bases loaded? No bringing the outfielders in?
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/ ... 022-season

Looks like it starts in 2023
For the 2023 season: Pitch clocks will be used, there will be a ban on defensive shifts, an automatic ball/strike zone will exist and there will be larger bases.
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