The eviction Process

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:05 pm

My stepson and his wife haven't paid me for electricity and water regularly in years. Finally they are over two months in arrears and another payment is due the 3 of Feb.
So today I told them I wanted the money shortly or they had to leave. Money is tight and I have to pay the electric bill by CC. He keeps telling me when they get their refund back in a couple of weeks they pay me.
I said I don't care. My CC doesn't care. They still want the money now. So he told me they weren't leaving and I couldn't make them.
So I went outside and turned off his electricity. I said "Stay there then but you'll do it without my electricity." He came around there and started threatening me with bodily harm and how as soon as I left he would turn it back on and turn mine off. So I stood there in front of the box as he yell how I didn't own the property because I wasn't married to his mother. I do. But I told him his mother agreed with me he said she's not competent to make these decisions and I don't have power of attorney and can't speak for her. He also told me his mother had told him I had abused her. I said call the cops. What do you think your mother is going to say?
Then he went on to tell me all these thing I couldn't do and all this paperwork I was going to have to do and I needed to give him 30 days notice. When I told him I was going to get a lawyer to handle all this he ranted and raved about how much it was going to cost me and how the judge was going to laugh at me and how he had all this documentation of all these bad things I've done.
I said fine,gather your paperwork and call the cops. This sent him back to yelling at the top of his lungs threatening me and many versions of how bad a person I am and me dogs don't like me either.

(I made that up)
He kept say I was a landlord and he had rights. And I told him no I was not his landlord, just somebody who was allowing him to use my utilities for a price.
Well, that got him a thinking and he said he was going to call the electric company and get his own installed. I said that's okay with me but I think you need a septic tank before they'll do that. He said his travel trailer has a septic system.
So I said okay and he said he was going to call the electric company right now so I turn his power back on.
I'll give him a few days to get this approved before I get a lawyer.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:30 pm

Start getting a lawyer now and stop speaking to them directly.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:33 pm

I second that.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:36 pm

Landlord/tenant laws are going to vary by state, but yes what Isg has suggested is the best recommendation. I can't comment on what the laws are in your area or how they might be different (modified) during the pandemic (additional protections against evictions).

But basically (if the laws are anything like in my state), everything goes back to the lease or whatever written agreement is in place. There is a specific process for giving notice for eviction and an amount of time required for each step.

I've never seen a situation where evicting someone is quick or painless. You have rights as a property owner but tenants have rights as well. Or maybe not in your state - nothing surprises me anymore.

Good luck, but make sure you document everything. Conversations, bills, payments - everything.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:36 pm Landlord/tenant laws are going to vary by state, but yes what Isg has suggested is the best recommendation. I can't comment on what the laws are in your area or how they might be different (modified) during the pandemic (additional protections against evictions).

But basically (if the laws are anything like in my state), everything goes back to the lease or whatever written agreement is in place. There is a specific process for giving notice for eviction and an amount of time required for each step.

I've never seen a situation where evicting someone is quick or painless. You have rights as a property owner but tenants have rights as well. Or maybe not in your state - nothing surprises me anymore.

Good luck, but make sure you document everything. Conversations, bills, payments - everything.

Yup. I also don't know how them being family impacts things. I would think that you wouldn't have to go through a lengthy process to kick out a family member who did you wrong?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:43 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:30 pm Start getting a lawyer now and stop speaking to them directly.

This. Doesn’t mean you need to go nuclear but you’ll be prepared if it comes to that and with your stepson either he’s all bluster or he’s ready to make your life more of a living hell. He sounds like a real dick so other than time and money out of your pocket it’s not a bad idea to find out what it takes to boot him off your property.

On another note, if he does get his own account with the electric company I wonder if that will complicate things down the line if you need to get him off your property? Another thing to bring up with a lawyer.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:44 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:05 pm So he told me they weren't leaving and I couldn't make them.

found out from my son that his mom's boyfriend had told her the same thing after she tried to kick him out. he was freeloading off her, living in her house, with no job. even if you're getting a free ride, why would one want to stay in a place where they're not wanted - by anyone else living there?

this ultra-mooch mentality is weird to me

$iljanus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:43 pm He sounds like a real dick so other than time and money out of your pocket it’s not a bad idea to find out what it takes to boot him off your property.

+8 to that

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:50 pm

Generally speaking, the laws tend to favor tenants over landlords. While that's not a uniform rule, there are processes to go through to evict someone. The theory is that the landlord is generally more sophisticated and has access to legal resources because they're essentially running a business, while the tenant is just a regular Joe Schmo. While that's obviously not always the case (like here), that's the theory behind the laws in general (although I have no knowledge as to the specific laws of Arkansas).

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:07 pm

$iljanus wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:43 pmOn another note, if he does get his own account with the electric company I wonder if that will complicate things down the line if you need to get him off your property? Another thing to bring up with a lawyer.

Yep. Are you sure you WANT him to do this?

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:11 pm

How can the stepson be considered a tenant if they have no written agreement and he's never paid actual rent? Isn't he, at most, a licensee becaue he just had permission to use the land to park his trailer? With nothing in writing, it shouldn't be that hard to throw them out past a standard 30-day notice.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:17 pm

Yeah, that's a wrinkle and I don't know to what degree established practice or some type of prior arrangement hold sway. In some cases if he had been paying some type of "rent" that could be construed as an agreement, but it's all dependent on the state's law on this type of thing. It might be possible to initiate a visit from county law enforcement (sheriff's officers?) and have them escorted off the property with an understanding that if they returned they'd be charged with trespassing.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:44 pm

Yeah, there isn't any written agreement.
I planned on seeing a lawyer next week I just wanted to get the process started to give him a chance.
Oh, did I mention he threatened to kill me? I was in the way of the breakers and he said that if I didn't move he was going to attack me and I would probably die.
Any rate I will wait until the middle of next week to see if he can get his own electricity before going to see a lawyer.
And no exchanging Xmas Cards from now on!

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:55 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:11 pm How can the stepson be considered a tenant if they have no written agreement and he's never paid actual rent? Isn't he, at most, a licensee becaue he just had permission to use the land to park his trailer? With nothing in writing, it shouldn't be that hard to throw them out past a standard 30-day notice.

It depends highly on state and local law, I'm sure. Verbal agreements, however, are generally binding (if harder to prove).

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:44 pm And no exchanging Xmas Cards from now on!

Don't do anything rash!

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:31 pm

Obviously a lawyer versed in the local laws is required but I'd try to understand if the guy is a tenant at all. He isn't living in dbt1949's home. The assertion that dbt is just providing the guy a socket and tantamount to unplugging it might be more accurate than not. It's a travel trailer. Without a formal agreement I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be able to ask him to leave immediately and in some reasonable timeframe even tow it away at the owner's cost.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:36 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:31 pm Obviously a lawyer versed in the local laws is required but I'd try to understand if the guy is a tenant at all. He isn't living in dbt1949's home. The assertion that dbt is just providing the guy a socket and tantamount to unplugging it might be more accurate than not. It's a travel trailer. Without a formal agreement I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be able to ask him to leave immediately and in some reasonable timeframe even tow it away at the owner's cost.

You would probably want a posse with you (paid if necessary) before towing. The problem may be if the asshole comes back at night to retaliate. Some guard dogs might be in order. Shitty situation all around.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:59 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:44 pm Yeah, there isn't any written agreement.
I planned on seeing a lawyer next week I just wanted to get the process started to give him a chance.
Oh, did I mention he threatened to kill me? I was in the way of the breakers and he said that if I didn't move he was going to attack me and I would probably die.
Any rate I will wait until the middle of next week to see if he can get his own electricity before going to see a lawyer.
And no exchanging Xmas Cards from now on!

Don't cut off his power. That's not going to go well for you. You need to get him evicted, but tenants have rights and I suspect cutting off his power could create legal problems for you, and IANAL.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:00 pm

2 words.....
Attack goat!!

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:01 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:31 pm Obviously a lawyer versed in the local laws is required but I'd try to understand if the guy is a tenant at all. He isn't living in dbt1949's home. The assertion that dbt is just providing the guy a socket and tantamount to unplugging it might be more accurate than not. It's a travel trailer. Without a formal agreement I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be able to ask him to leave immediately and in some reasonable timeframe even tow it away at the owner's cost.

They have been there for years. That might create something beyond just being a parked travel trailer but IANAL.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:20 pm

To be honest when I went out there and cut the power I thought there was a locking mechanism on the power box. There wasn't so I have to throw that idea out the window.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:24 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:11 pm How can the stepson be considered a tenant if they have no written agreement and he's never paid actual rent? Isn't he, at most, a licensee becaue he just had permission to use the land to park his trailer? With nothing in writing, it shouldn't be that hard to throw them out past a standard 30-day notice.

That's my instinct but I don't think all agreements have to be on paper and laws are hard.

Internet says...

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/r ... -leave.htm

Ridding Yourself of a Houseguest

Technically, in most situations a houseguest who remains after being asked to leave is trespassing. How can you get rid of such a person? First, make sure that the trespasser knows that he or she is no longer welcome. It can be difficult to tell friends and relatives that you want them to leave, but until if you have previously given the person permission to stay at your house, and not made it explicit that you want the person to leave, he or she may not be violating any laws. If you have made crystal clear that a guest is not welcome, but the guest continues to stay, call the police and report the person for trespassing. However, you may find that the police are not as helpful as you would hope. In such situations, you may need to encourage your houseguest to leave by changing the wi-fi password, stripping the guest bed, and taking back your key.
Houseguest or Tenant?

Oftentimes, local police are wary of getting involved in domestic disputes because they worry that the houseguest is actually a tenant. Tenants (people who pay rent under a formal or informal lease agreement) are entitled to certain legal protections. While state laws vary, landlords cannot evict tenants without following the proper court procedures, which includes filing an eviction lawsuit and obtaining a court order for eviction. The eviction must then be carried out by sheriff's deputies.

Under the law in most states, guests, even long-term guests, are not tenants and are not entitled to the formal eviction process. However, a police officer has no way of knowing whether your guest is a trespasser or a tenant and may refuse to remove the person, on the chance that you are trying to avoid the eviction process. (Cooperating with an illegal "self-help" eviction could land the police officer in legal hot water.) You may need to educate yourself about your rights so that you can persuade police that you are on the right side the law. For more information on landlord-tenant laws, see Renters' & Tenants' Rights and Landlords & Rental Property.
Make Sure Your Guest Does Not (Inadvertently) Become Your Tenant

So, you have opened your home to a friend who needs a place to stay and your friend generously offers to give you some rent money to defray expenses. Great, you think – that makes life a bit easier. Not so fast. If you accept money in exchange for allowing a person to stay with you, that person may be considered your tenant (entitled to eviction protection) under state law. Allowing a person to receive mail at your address may also be evidence that he or she is a tenant. Make sure you understand the laws in your state so that you do not inadvertently allow someone to become your tenant. As explained above, evicting a tenant is much more complicated than getting rid of a houseguest.

According to this random Internet site a formal agreement is required to have landlord tenant relationship. Your SIL is houseguest and if you ask him to leave he is tresspassing.

https://www.avail.co/education/laws/ark ... tenant-law

Is a written rental agreement required? Yes*

*All rental agreements longer than 1 year must be written.

https://www.avail.co/education/laws/ark ... t-required

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:44 pm

He doesn't live in my house and I'm not trying to have him evicted from his own trailer. Just moved somewhere not on my land. Like I said he just pays for utilities.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:51 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:44 pm He doesn't live in my house and I'm not trying to have him evicted from his own trailer. Just moved somewhere not on my land. Like I said he just pays for utilities.

The question would be is he tenant on your land, and some internet site suggests to me he is not. If he's a guest and you ask him to leave and he doesn't then he's trespassing. Which confirms my instincts so the site must be right.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:53 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 4:44 pm He doesn't live in my house and I'm not trying to have him evicted from his own trailer. Just moved somewhere not on my land. Like I said he just pays for utilities.

That's why I was saying it might be more of a sheriff's officer / trespassing issue. You said the power hookup doesn't have a lock, but how does the hookup get power? Does it go back to a breaker box that you control or does it have its own meter?

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:04 pm

The hookup goes from the main circuit breaker with a smaller one added on for him. The meter covers both. No separate meter for him.
The sheriff's office won't touch this unless I go thru the whole process. Which technically I could do myself but I'm going to get a lawyer.
Assuming he can't get his own power.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:14 pm

It took my brother literally a year to legally evict a tenant he had in California. Then he took them to small claims court and they disappeared.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:27 pm

Maybe call code enforcement on yourself?

I doubt the living arrangement is legal. City says you have to go dude, not sanitary. What's he doing with his waste?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:41 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:27 pm Maybe call code enforcement on yourself? I doubt the living arrangement is legal. City says you have to go dude, not sanitary. What's he doing with his waste?

Just based on what he's told us about where he lives, I HIGHLY doubt there is a "code enforcement" task force. Or codes.

Cylus Maxii · Post by **Cylus Maxii** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:47 pm

Its almost certain that he won't be able to get his own power. Its a lengthy process to have an electrical utility allow a connection. And its also an expensive one. If you want a second line and meter on the property, YOU will have to pay for it. You are looking at $10,000+

EDIT: Even if they allow you to add a second meter, you are looking at a few thousand. And they will likely be concerned over whether you are properly zoned and everything is up to code. Its a big can of worms my friend.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:52 pm

Yeah, that's true - installing a dedicated meter is not only expensive but also something that would need to be property-owner approved. Certainly the quickest route is flipping the breaker that feeds that box - particularly if keeping it active is costing you money you cannot afford to pay. However, based on what you've shared it would seem if you do that he might get nutty and put you in danger.

It sounds like having a fast resolution would be best but isn't realistic. Sorry you're dealing with it.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:01 pm

He dumps his waste in my septic tank. I don't think he'll be able to get his own power either but I think it's cheaper here that what you all are saying.
At one time he talked about getting his own generator and I told him that would be more than he owes me.
Despite all the verbal abuse he showered on me I really do want to be relatively fare with him but I'm sure in my own mind it's going to be the lawyer route. Any estimates on the cost there?

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:13 pm

It seems like death threats would make the eviction/trespassing process easier.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:20 pm

He said / he said, first amendment, etc.

I’ve threatened to murder my project manager at least three times this month.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:23 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:01 pm He dumps his waste in my septic tank. I don't think he'll be able to get his own power either but I think it's cheaper here that what you all are saying.
At one time he talked about getting his own generator and I told him that would be more than he owes me.
Despite all the verbal abuse he showered on me I really do want to be relatively fare with him but I'm sure in my own mind it's going to be the lawyer route. Any estimates on the cost there?

Really your best bet might just to be to google lawyers and find one with a free consult. I doubt any of the people on this forum have experience evicting redneck family members in your state.

Also going with a firm that does this exclusively may be a little cheaper.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:39 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:01 pm Despite all the verbal abuse he showered on me I really do want to be relatively fare with him but I'm sure in my own mind it's going to be the lawyer route. Any estimates on the cost there?

Not sure if this is good advice, but perhaps try to tackle this from a protection from domestic violence angle and seek legal assistance that way, assuming you meet the requirements. Elder abuse is a thing and if you're being taken advantage of financially and being physically threatened, that's not good. Even if this organization can just get you in touch with someone that can facilitate the removal of your SIL from the property (with help from local authorities) and making sure there are legal steps taken to ensure he doesn't return, that might be enough.

EDIT: Or maybe check here.

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:17 pm

Does the dude have weapons?

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:26 pm

Lots.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:34 pm

em2nought wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:17 pm Does the dude have weapons?

Dude. It's Hogeye, Arkansas.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:35 pm

Spend an hour with a local lawyer to confirm your rights and options under local law. You want someone to keep you legal and available to deal with complications if he resists or escalates. It’ can quickly turn into a worse mess.

You may get a quick solution — like calling the cops to remove him for a reason they’ll accept.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:46 pm

gilraen wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:11 pm How can the stepson be considered a tenant if they have no written agreement and he's never paid actual rent? Isn't he, at most, a licensee becaue he just had permission to use the land to park his trailer? With nothing in writing, it shouldn't be that hard to throw them out past a standard 30-day notice.

It devolves into a he said / they said about an implied verbal agreement.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:51 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:39 pm Not sure if this is good advice, but perhaps try to tackle this from a protection from domestic violence angle and seek legal assistance that way, assuming you meet the requirements. Elder abuse is a thing and if you're being taken advantage of financially and being physically threatened, that's not good. Even if this organization can just get you in touch with someone that can facilitate the removal of your SIL from the property (with help from local authorities) and making sure there are legal steps taken to ensure he doesn't return, that might be enough.

EDIT: Or maybe check here.

It'd be great if you can get a re-enactment from him, catch it all on camera and audio and present it as "potential danger" case to the police. Not only he's mooching off you and reneged on stuff he previously agreed to, he threatened violence and "you can't make me" when you reminded him of the obligation.

The problem here is this doesn't stop him from throwing a brick through your window at 2AM... or something worse.