- Set design, makeup, visual effects etc. continue to be fantastic. I hope the budget isn't too front-loaded.
- What the hell is going on with Spock's sideburns? I didn't notice them in the pilot.
- I don't know how I feel about the plot. I think it feels like new Trek shoved into the skin of old Trek. Which may be obvious criticism to levy... but it just doesn't quite fit for me.
- I watched a video essay pointing out how much crew unprofessionalism/snarkiness/over-emotionalism there is in the new Trek properties. It was recorded before SNW premiered, but it sticks out like a sore thumb once you're looking for it. I continue to say that it's OK for Trek to evolve but this just really bugs me. The writers are obviously chasing laughs and emotional investment in an era of television and entertainment that's much different, but the older shows found room for this without doing things that would seem to upset the command structure. I frequently enjoy the characters guilty of this, but some of their lines make me cringe.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
- I watched a video essay pointing out how much crew unprofessionalism/snarkiness/over-emotionalism there is in the new Trek properties. It was recorded before SNW premiered, but it sticks out like a sore thumb once you're looking for it. I continue to say that it's OK for Trek to evolve but this just really bugs me. The writers are obviously chasing laughs and emotional investment in an era of television and entertainment that's much different, but the older shows found room for this without doing things that would seem to upset the command structure. I frequently enjoy the characters guilty of this, but some of their lines make me cringe.
Emotional investment has always been a HUGE part of ALL Star Trek. Spock dying, being reborn, etc. …I mean, come on. Star Trek has always been about the feels. And often in a very cheesy manner. I don’t see this current crop doing it any differently beyond being more inclusive.
As for a lack of professionalism, I just don’t see it as any worse than the countless moments of insubordination the original shows contained. Hell, it was a plot point in many of them.
Anyway, besides my critique of someone’s critique, I just wanted to chime in and say Strange New Worlds is helping wash the taste of Picard away. Much better show, imho.
hepcat wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 8:50 pm
Emotional investment has always been a HUGE part of ALL Star Trek. Spock dying, being reborn, etc. …I mean, come on. Star Trek has always been about the feels. And often in a very cheesy manner. I don’t see this current crop doing it any differently beyond being more inclusive.
The tone and implementation is very different. I realize at this point in our interactions that you're never going to see it that way. I'm not going to re-watch the majority of Trek canon to document it. (I enjoy pedantry, but I don't have the time.) Spock dying to save the Enterprise in a movie is different than junior officers having constant attitude and confidence issues to create tension.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
I mean, it’s fairly easy to go back to any of the shows and point out where they do everything you complain about with this current generation of Star Trek, but i realize too you’re never going to see it that way.
Edit I: At the end of the day, I want a Star Trek that’s the opposite of so many other shows that seem to embrace cynicism (not that I don’t enjoy those at times too, mind you). The current crop of Star Trek shows ( mostly) do that. I loved the classic shows for that, and I love the new stuff for following in those footsteps.
Edit II: I will say that Spock’s sideburns are distracting. He looks like Siouxsie Sioux at times.
I hear you, Sudy. I think a large part of that is contextual. And another large part of it is down to the change in overall culture over how TV shows are produced since the Streaming age, as compared to standard long-form TV seasons. Read a really interesting article about this, and it's basically down to how showrunners have less experience than showrunners of the past used to have, as streaming series typically have 10 episode seasons, which are all filmed at once, rather than filmed concurrently with a 22 episode season, where they'd be mentored. A showrunner these days will sometimes do 10 episodes and move on, then do another 10 episode season of different series, and so on. Basically, there's less experience stacked in the short time they get to be showrunner, which then leads to a lot of mistakes, and I think that's the kind of thing we were seeing with Picard. I think there were a lot of mistakes made, and it sort of becomes an echo chamber where perhaps there's not enough criticism of ideas.
I think with the advent of streaming services, we now have far more TV shows in general than we've ever had. So I can see that being an issue. But up until as recently as a couple of years ago, we were getting constantly bombarded with articles about how we were living in another golden age of television, with shows like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Mad Men, etc. dominating the landscape. I hope Darwinism weeds out the truly awful stuff over time.
But I also don't think the lack of experience had anything to do with Picard being such a shit show. Akiva Goldsman and co show runner Terry Matalas have been around a long time (the latter was a writer or assistant on both Voyager and Enterprise). They just are shitty writers, I've decided.
As for the reviews complaining about Star Trek being too "emotional" or whatever, I still have to wonder if they aren't more about the franchise's expanded focus on inclusion. Star Trek has always been about breaking down barriers, but it did so in a measured fashion. This latest incarnation of the franchise is less concerned with using kid's gloves though, and it gives us diversity in all areas in an abrupt, no nonsense fashion. That can be quite jolting for some people. But it is, I think, perfectly in line with what Star Trek represents.
hepcat wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 7:49 am
As for the reviews complaining about Star Trek being too "emotional" or whatever, I still have to wonder if they aren't more about the franchise's expanded focus on inclusion.
I don't see how the two have anything to do with one another, other than that I wouldn't be surprised if those who have a problem with diversity are among those who complain the new shows are too melodramatic. But that doesn't mean everyone in the latter camp is a bigot.
I don't have a problem with the portrayal of emotions in general. In contrast with the older shows I appreciate this might be considered a course correction or cultural update. I don't dispute that the older shows also invoked emotions and had sarcasm, insubordination, etc. The scale and focus are just very different. I admit I'm unable to judge the new shows without referencing the old ones. But even if I could, these things would still bug me from a storytelling/character development standpoint. I don't need Star Trek to be a stoic military drama, but it feels like Discovery encountered an anomaly that permanently lowered everyone's inhibitions.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
Sudy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:59 am
I admit I'm unable to judge the new shows without referencing the old ones.
I'm doing it and getting very different results than you. Perhaps we just remember the old shows differently.
Sudy wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:59 am
But even if I could, these things would still bug me from a storytelling/character development standpoint. I don't need Star Trek to be a stoic military drama, but it feels like Discovery encountered an anomaly that permanently lowered everyone's inhibitions.
But seriously, there is nothing in any of the new Star Trek shows (other than Picard) that hasn't been done in any previous Star Trek show. Kirk used to sleep with everything that moved, would routinely beam down on away missions when a Captain wouldn't normally do that, Nurse Chapel made passes at Spock, Scotty would give Kirk the wrong times for repairs, the TNG officers would ignore Picard's orders (although then oftentimes realize he was either right or being controlled by something/someone), Picard let Wesley fly the ship with a learner's permit, etc., yada yada yada. It's all there if you look.
hepcat wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 7:49 am
I think with the advent of streaming services, we now have far more TV shows in general than we've ever had. So I can see that being an issue. But up until as recently as a couple of years ago, we were getting constantly bombarded with articles about how we were living in another golden age of television, with shows like Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, Mad Men, etc. dominating the landscape. I hope Darwinism weeds out the truly awful stuff over time.
See, I don't really believe that was ever a golden age of TV, not any more than any other era of TV anyway. I just never saw it that way.
But I also don't think the lack of experience had anything to do with Picard being such a shit show. Akiva Goldsman and co show runner Terry Matalas have been around a long time (the latter was a writer or assistant on both Voyager and Enterprise). They just are shitty writers, I've decided.
Sure, Goldsman may have been around for a long time, as a writer, but as this article explains, being a writer doesn't automatically make them good showrunners, due to possible lack of being prepared for the burden. And then again, he may have been a bad writer who may have won the short straw of becoming showrunner when he wasn't ready for it and would have needed more time as a writer. Goldsman already took over from Picard's previous showrunner, and it feels to me like he was unfamiliar with Picard himself beyond the broad strokes. The entire season comes off feeling like something from someone who doesn't quite get it.
Still loving the show after 3 episodes. Although I did chuckle at
Spoiler:
Episode 3: genetic modification puts everyone on edge!
Episode 1: we’re going to genetically modify you to look like the natives of this planet? At least temporarily..
Also
Spoiler:
Mbenga’s reveal about his daughter was just heartbreaking and sweet. I imagine that and the reveal about Number One’s true race is probably going to cause some to get upset that these things could happen without someone finding out. But I think there’s enough humanity left in the future world of Star Trek that it could be easily explained by crafty people and less than competent bureaucrats.
I also love that the franchise hasn’t revived the soft rock theme song from Enterprise. Christ I hated that.
Always liked the character of Mbenga in the novels but Im curious why they chose him when Dr Boyce was doctor under Pike. Mbenga serves as a secondary doc with Kirk. So I wonder why they made it like this?
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
As a sign of the times notice Scotty calls her woman and not Nurse Chapel indicating she is doing it because she is a nutso woman
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake. http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
Mbenga’s reveal about his daughter was just heartbreaking and sweet. I imagine that and the reveal about Number One’s true race is probably going to cause some to get upset that these things could happen without someone finding out. But I think there’s enough humanity left in the future world of Star Trek that it could be easily explained by crafty people and less than competent bureaucrats.
Spoiler:
Kind of. My annoyance is more with the "everybody needs a secret" storytelling. The concepts themselves aren't bad.
I think it's fine to believe this may still be a utopia (nevermind early Discovery) where privacy is protected and people don't live in a surveillance state. But these are presumably established officers with historical relationships. How would you fake your species all this time without it being a huge, exhausting part of your life and relationships? Well I guess maybe they'll tell us. And they can handwave it with technology magic. But when she and Pike chat about their childhoods, what does she say? I feel like the story I want to see is the one in which Pike answered, "Yes, you do have to turn yourself in. But I'll fight for you all the way." In the words of Walter Sobchak, "Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules?!"
As for the doctor, didn't anyone notice his daughter just disappeared at some point? Isn't she supposed to be in school or something? Perhaps some of this was explained and I missed it. (Did he just transfer on the ship?) There's certainly precedence for someone being stored in a transporter buffer long term. But is he really the first one to have thought of this? Why isn't it used broadly and legitimately for terminal patients in the future?
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
But joking aside, I have to say, there's nothing you're complaining about here that hasn't happened before in Star Trek TOS/TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise. If I could accept things like that with the original shows, and still call myself a fan of them, I think it's only fair to accept them with the new shows...as long as they aren't going directly against the spirit of the original shows/just weird writing, like Picard did for quite a bit this last season.
I don't think I've ever claimed the older shows were perfect. Certainly not on an episode by episode basis. I remember being very hard on Voyager and Enterprise while they were airing. There were episodes of TOS and TNG that were trash. If they were debuting now I'd be nitpicking them also. But I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of all Star Trek. I'm not going to give something that irritates me a pass just because Sulu held a sword wrong half a century ago.
Edit: I'm not a professional writer, but there are ways you layer this stuff in so it feels more satisfying and more natural.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
Sudy wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 3:20 pm
I'm not going to give something that irritates me a pass just because Sulu held a sword wrong half a century ago.
Of course you can be irritated by something just because you don’t like it. My only issue is when folks try to justify their complaints about the new stuff by trying to compare it to the original shows.
Sudy wrote: ↑Sun May 22, 2022 3:20 pm
Edit: I'm not a professional writer, but there are ways you layer this stuff in so it feels more satisfying and more natural.
Picard was guilty of that quite a bit. I don’t see it as that big of an issue in the other shows in the franchise. I mean, it exists to some extent in almost every show, I imagine. And even more so if you’re somewhat biased towards disliking a series (which is what you see from the vocal fans on the interwebs screaming bloody murder because this isn’t the original shows with the same sensibilities as 50 years ago when TOS aired). But so far, I haven’t found anything unreasonable, or a showstopper for me….well, other than the aforementioned Picard crap.
I don't expect every show to have a J. Michael Straczynski-esque bible with five years' worth of character arcs, but the lack of preparation got on my nerves when we're only three episodes into the first season. Or rather, this is in fact their idea of preparation.
Anyway, I still like most of the characters and just enjoy how beautiful the show is visually (if overstuffed and unrealistic... but I'll let it be space fantasy.)
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
I'm referring specifically to the starfields and celestial phoenomena, etc. All series may have played this up at times, but Discovery and especially SNW so far are obsessed with portraying dramatic, colourful space scenes that aren't realistic or at least shouldn't be so frequent. It's as if they forgot a starry void itself is wondrous and beautiful. I understand the need to be visually interesting and I give it a pass because of its imagination, but I think it's actually a very good example of what makes these series different.
I saw a commercial on late night TV. It said, "Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were. -- Mitch Hedberg
Makes them different from the original shows? I think decades of technological advancement in astronomy and special effects are more to blame. The old shows used sheets with pinholes punched in them at times. I haven’t seen anything that stands out, myself. At least not to any distracting degree.
Through episode 3, I'm enjoying Strange New Worlds so far. I do have to wonder whether at least a part of that is that it's a bit of fresh air to just be in space exploring things after the turd that was Picard season 2. But that said, Anson Mount continues to be great. The actor who plays Spock also does a great job. And I am enjoying the exploration and mysteries so far, especially on episodes 2 and 3.
In terms of gripes, Nurse Chapel annoys me. She's just vaguely sassy in a way that's a little over the top. Also:
Spoiler:
In episode 3 the key challenge (the disease) was essentially hand-waved via an off-screen resolution ("Sure glad I figured out how to cure the disease and applied it over the last few hours!"); I imagine that writing a resolution based upon imagined 24th century science isn't easy, but that could've used a few more minutes of screen time devoted to how they cured everyone. Also I wish they hadn't put both the genetic engineering rulebreaking thing and the transportation rule-breaking thing in the same episode - felt like it was straining credulity in terms of what Starfleet officers could ignore.
But overall I'm pretty happy. Also while I really have enjoyed serial shows, it is a little relaxing to have a "space mystery of the week" show.
I've watched through end of Episode 2 and saw a red flag at the very end. Pike talks about maybe changing his fate and then casually asks the computer to pulls up info/photos of rando children from across the Federation? And it isn't like class photos. They are creepy in media res pictures of kids at play and dossiers. Page 24th century Chris Hansen. Or maybe it just reflects that this ideal society is at its heart a dystopian autocracy. Sad.
I'm only two episodes on, but holy shit, this feels like Star Trek in a really great way, not just a show that happens to take place in the same universe. I'm all in.
Downwards Compatible
We're playing every NES game alphabetically! Even the crappy ones! Send help!
A goddamn Freaky Friday episode? Seriously? Jesus. I know all shows have their stinkers though. I hope this was just a misstep.
Maybe it was because I was ill with stomach flu, but I really enjoyed it. I love the tone of this show in general, it just has a fresh (and more fun) vibe to it that doesn’t seem to take itself as seriously as the other Trek shows. I wasn’t a huge TOS fan but I also enjoy the various nods to the original. And I’m finally getting to used to Spock being so hot; it was weirding me out at first.
I still like the show a great deal, but Freaky Friday? If they do a Groundhog’s Day episode, you’re just going to hear a pop coming from the direction of Chicago, then one of the guys here will post about how I died from spontaneous combustion.
There’ll be a gofund me of course. But they’ll use the money to buy MD 20/20 and fireworks. Bastards.
