Fedex Theft

[Isgrimnur]

Quill is owned by Staples, Inc., and is recognized as their most profitable division, accounting for about 25% of the company's net income.

[malchior]

Do you still have the book? I'd hold onto it untill BB resolves this. It's a key piece towards showing that you're not just trying to pull a fast one on BB.

No - FedEx came and got it the next day. That said, I have a video of me picking it up (ring), a video of me opening the box (it looked crushed), and called them immediately. Within 5 minutes of the delivery and I had a package in hand for someone else that was supposed to be out for delivery.

I asked filed a complaint with FedEx and they came to pick it up so I have a record of that. I have the tracking of the 'fake package' and all that. The good thing is Best Buy claim they refunded me and gave me a reference ID. If it doesn't come off, I'm just going the charge back route because they've been shitty as all hell.

The end of the interaction was hilarious bad. I got a "supervisor" and cut and paste my log of events. They contradicted the two people who helped me in the same damn chat session. It was like talking to Donald Trump. They refused to acknowledge any failures or even acknowledge the problems at all. Several times they all cut and paste in the same stock 'I feel your frustration' chat text I've seen about 5 times (and have screenshots of). I should just redact and post this because the whole interaction is some of the worst CS I've seen ever.

[Carpet_pissr]

I can tell you from the other side of the coin we used to hate effing chargebacks. We would get scammers who stayed at our hotels who swore they were never there, even though we had a signed registration card. Credit card companies always side with the consumer.

Yep, Malchior has definitely been placed on the secret "black list" at BB at this point.

You may never be able to order from them again, Malchior! I'm sure you're crushed after this experience.

True story: my sister-in-law was either banned from Target, or banned from returning things to Target (can't remember) because she brought back SO much shit, some of which was not even bought there. She would get gifts from people that she didn't want, and no matter where that stuff was bought, she would try (and apparently succeed for a while) to return said gift to Target for cash or a GC.

[malchior]

BB is on my public black list now. They just informed me they won't issue me a refund and told me to contact law enforcement. Fuck them. Charge back. If that doesn't work then small claims court or maybe I'll try a news station since it's so ridiculous. I mean I had an item for another person. They didn't swap it for something random. They swapped it for something that should have been delivered. Pretty tough to explain that when the FedEx person is on video dropping off one tiny package.

Anyway, such a waste of time. I hardily recommend never shopping there. I've talked to them about 15 times about this to have them stick me with the bill in the end. Uh uh. I have all the receipts.

Edit: Maybe it was a coincidence but I was talking to the chat agent and he was getting status when they sent me the email telling me to stuff it.

[Jaymann]

Contact law enforcement. I'm sure they will put their best men on it.

[malchior]

Yeah. It's bizarre. I've spent like $10K there over the last 5 years but they think I'm trying to steal a tablet? And I have a pretty good video, picture, and chat log trail to show what happened. They fuct up.

But I'll definitely file the police report. Because then when I file in small claims with all that and NJ law says they have to send legal counsel...I'm sure they'll just pony up the refund. This is dumb.

[LawBeefaroni]

"Contact local law enforcement" means "we don't believe you and dare you to lie to the cops."

The thing is, this is on FedEx. Best Buy should refund you and take it up with their shipping partner. But no, Best Buy is being dumb as shit here.


Charge back is the way to go at this point. And don't use Best Boy anymore.

[Carpet_pissr]

Yeah. It's bizarre. I've spent like $10K there over the last 5 years but they think I'm trying to steal a tablet? And I have a pretty good video, picture, and chat log trail to show what happened. They fuct up.

They don't *think* anything, and that's part of the problem, I'm sure. They are following bureaucratic and cultural norms and it's possible this event is an anomaly, to be crushed. It threatens the existing paradigms, therefore it's heresy (yes, I have been reading way too many Dune books lately).

But seriously, there is probably no single person at BB evilly rubbing hands together, thinking "I'll show that scammer!! Release the email!!" This is what happens when you try to resolve a problem at a very personal level, that's outside their narrow lanes of thinking and process, with a massive, faceless corporation who doesn't give a shit about how much of a pain this is for you.

[malchior]

But seriously, there is probably no single person at BB evilly rubbing hands together, thinking "I'll show that scammer!! Release the email!!" This is what happens when you try to resolve a problem at a very personal level, that's outside their narrow lanes of thinking and process, with a massive, faceless corporation who doesn't give a shit about how much of a pain this is for you.

I never suggested otherwise. It's just bizarre in the sense that you'd figure if they did an investigation my purchase history would figure into it, and then put on top the timeline (I opened a chat 8 minutes after the delivery to report it), I have a ring video from 2:22 PM, a picture of the replaced item at 2:25 complete with a text of it to my wife a minute later, and then the chat request at 2:30. Between all the times I asked for escalation, etc. I would have hoped that they'd do more. I've been nothing if persistent and I've offered over and over to provide evidence. I just emailed them in response to closing the investigation saying I am perplexed that they closed an investigation without talking to me about it. Just for the record naturally. In the end, I now mostly fear they are having money issues so I want to move on this.

[Carpet_pissr]

They. Don't. Care.

[malchior]

They. Don't. Care.

I never said the drones or whoever is working this care. It doesn't make it any less bizarre. They get marching orders from somewhere and this feels like it shouldn't be normal practice.

[El Guapo]

In the end, I now mostly fear they are having money issues so I want to move on this.

Are you worried that Best Buy isn't going to have enough money on hand to refund the tablet?

[malchior]

In the end, I now mostly fear they are having money issues so I want to move on this.

Are you worried that Best Buy isn't going to have enough money on hand to refund the tablet?

In effect. They've been closing stores and this behavior is weird. In the end, when a company starts acting unreasonable in multiple ways I start sensing things are up. I have other things behind that assessment.

For example, I was unable on three occasions to get a manager to talk to me at the physical location. My wife had to return a gift my BIL got her and I figured I'd take swing 2 at it. Swing 1 was on the day of the mishap. I couldn't even get them to give me a name to call back later. "Ask for a manager." It felt like there was *no manager*. I had the same experience on chat and the phone. No path of escalation at all. My wife also tried by calling them to see if we could get a manager on the phone. It failed. I struggled to get questions answered. In most case, when I got answers they were wrong. When I pointed out they were erroneous they were ignored like I didn't say them. There is something strange going on there.

Another oddity is that the inventory on the order wasn't what they were seeing at all on their screens. I never saw any of the requests they supposedly made for me. No email records. I got reference ids but the only "real" evidence anything happened behind the scenes was the email saying they wouldn't give me a refund today. When multiple people looked at my account they said conflicting things (I have screenshots of those chats). There is something seriously wrong with their operation.

I spoke to my BIL who is an attorney and I have things going my way. I had a package in my possession I shouldn't have. FedEx picked it up and I have everything on camera. In the end, he thinks the chargeback will work. If not, then I make an FTC claim and then worst case sue them in my local small claims court which should prod them. This all obviously takes time and if they go broke I am out $1300 or so.

[LawBeefaroni]

Chargeback should be fine. This is exactly the kind of thing chargebacks are made for.

I'm guessing their WSB campaign didn't work out as well as they hoped. AMC is literally buying gold mines. BBY is poorly executing on a dead business model.

[El Guapo]

In the end, I now mostly fear they are having money issues so I want to move on this.

Are you worried that Best Buy isn't going to have enough money on hand to refund the tablet?

In effect. They've been closing stores and this behavior is weird. In the end, when a company starts acting unreasonable in multiple ways I start sensing things are up. I have other things behind that assessment.

For example, I was unable on three occasions to get a manager to talk to me at the physical location. My wife had to return a gift my BIL got her and I figured I'd take swing 2 at it. Swing 1 was on the day of the mishap. I couldn't even get them to give me a name to call back later. "Ask for a manager." It felt like there was *no manager*. I had the same experience on chat and the phone. No path of escalation at all. My wife also tried by calling them to see if we could get a manager on the phone. It failed. I struggled to get questions answered. In most case, when I got answers they were wrong. When I pointed out they were erroneous they were ignored like I didn't say them. There is something strange going on there.

Another oddity is that the inventory on the order wasn't what they were seeing at all on their screens. I never saw any of the requests they supposedly made for me. No email records. I got reference ids but the only "real" evidence anything happened behind the scenes was the email saying they wouldn't give me a refund today. When multiple people looked at my account they said conflicting things (I have screenshots of those chats). There is something seriously wrong with their operation.

I spoke to my BIL who is an attorney and I have things going my way. I had a package in my possession I shouldn't have. FedEx picked it up and I have everything on camera. In the end, he thinks the chargeback will work. If not, then I make an FTC claim and then worst case sue them in my local small claims court which should prod them. This all obviously takes time and if they go broke I am out $1300 or so.

Seems like death spiral and related incompetence type behavior to me. If the franchise is slowly dying, presumably the most talented and desirable employees have been jumping ship for some time, which is going to hurt the business more and cost them more customers (as here).

But even if it's dying there's no way that this purchase is going to move the needle for them.

Anyway, the chargeback should work fine.

[malchior]

Well I just put in a police report. The patrolman actually asked a detective to come out and talk it over. I was surprised. I mean I don't expect it to go anywhere but I guess it might. I thought at first they were ferreting out whether I was lying about anything but then it seemed like this was out of the ordinary enough that it was interesting to them. It didn't hurt that I had assembled the report pretty much and just handed it to them with a complete narrative (I boiled down a summary from my notes).

[Carpet_pissr]

Well I just put in a police report. The patrolman actually asked a detective to come out and talk it over. I was surprised. I mean I don't expect it to go anywhere but I guess it might. I thought at first they were ferreting out whether I was lying about anything but then it seemed like this was out of the ordinary enough that it was interesting to them. It didn't hurt that I had assembled the report pretty much and just handed it to them with a complete narrative (I boiled down a summary from my notes).

Call the detective back tomorrow and ask him if he has any leads.

[Smoove_B]

For all you know there could be a much larger investigation going on in your area that the police are gathering information on. And once someone from BB saw your address and that you were in the Bermuda Triangle of disappearing electronics deliveries, they're going to push you to call the police to help them figure it out.

It's definitely odd. I had a laptop mysteriously disappear being shipped from Amazon via USPS a few weeks before Xmas a number of years back. Here, they had tracking to local USPS facility (I think UPS did a hand off) and from there? Disappeared into the ether. Amazon issued a refund and sent a replacement within 24 hours, but they also force people to pee in bottles and work in 102+ degree warehouses without breaks, so...

[malchior]

Well I just put in a police report. The patrolman actually asked a detective to come out and talk it over. I was surprised. I mean I don't expect it to go anywhere but I guess it might. I thought at first they were ferreting out whether I was lying about anything but then it seemed like this was out of the ordinary enough that it was interesting to them. It didn't hurt that I had assembled the report pretty much and just handed it to them with a complete narrative (I boiled down a summary from my notes).

Call the detective back tomorrow and ask him if he has any leads.

Haha. Did you grill the driver?! Progress report - now!

[malchior]

For all you know there could be a much larger investigation going on in your area that the police are gathering information on. And once someone from BB saw your address and that you were in the Bermuda Triangle of disappearing electronics deliveries, they're going to push you to call the police to help them figure it out.

It's definitely odd. I had a laptop mysteriously disappear being shipped from Amazon via USPS a few weeks before Xmas a number of years back. Here, they had tracking to local USPS facility (I think UPS did a hand off) and from there? Disappeared into the ether. Amazon issued a refund and sent a replacement within 24 hours, but they also force people to pee in bottles and work in 102+ degree warehouses without breaks, so...

I think their interest was that there is something concrete to go after. It isn't a package disappeared and it's some random person. No, the package was swapped and the dope basically gave us lots of information (probably accidentally) about when things happened.

1) I have a package in my hands that I shouldn't have.

2) One package came from NY straight to the facility.

3) The other came directly from Fairfield NJ to this facility.

4) The only intersection they have is the local facility.

5) "Fake" package #2 is supposedly out for delivery but it's inside another box that used to contain something valuable. And it was scanned out so someone had to put it inside the other box after they were both scanned out. I'll give you a hint who they probably want to talk to (if they act at all - which I won't hold my breath on).

Edit: I should give the police more credit. I had a bag stolen in NYC once years ago and a detective called me back while he was at the place looking at tape. He was able to identify the thief as he was relatively well known in that area. Not that it helped me too much. I never got anything back.

[Blackhawk]

Edit: I should give the police more credit. I had a bag stolen in NYC once years ago and a detective called me back while he was at the place looking at tape. He was able to identify the thief as he was relatively well known in that area. Not that it helped me too much. I never got anything back.

You rarely do. I dealt with pickpockets extensively in Reno. That sort of thief usually has the bag for a matter of minutes. They get out of sight, strip it of valuables, and toss it. You can often get a driver's license back, for instance, by checking the trash cans and alleys around the corner from where you got 'bumped.'

[Jaymann]

Well I just put in a police report. The patrolman actually asked a detective to come out and talk it over. I was surprised. I mean I don't expect it to go anywhere but I guess it might. I thought at first they were ferreting out whether I was lying about anything but then it seemed like this was out of the ordinary enough that it was interesting to them. It didn't hurt that I had assembled the report pretty much and just handed it to them with a complete narrative (I boiled down a summary from my notes).

Call the detective back tomorrow and ask him if he has any leads.

[Rumpy]

Edit: I should give the police more credit. I had a bag stolen in NYC once years ago and a detective called me back while he was at the place looking at tape. He was able to identify the thief as he was relatively well known in that area. Not that it helped me too much. I never got anything back.

You rarely do. I dealt with pickpockets extensively in Reno. That sort of thief usually has the bag for a matter of minutes. They get out of sight, strip it of valuables, and toss it. You can often get a driver's license back, for instance, by checking the trash cans and alleys around the corner from where you got 'bumped.'

Our vehicle was broken into while on Christmas vacation years ago. It was parked in a parking garage. I had a travel bag with electronics, ie phone, camera, Tablet, and wallet, and a set of brand new Bose speakers we'd bought, which were all stolen. Filed a police report, and yeah, never got anything back. My Dad had his wallet stolen too and strangely, 2 years later he'd gotten a call from a teacher at a school in that city saying they'd found his wallet on school property. I know there were two thieves involved, because they were messing around with my tablet and had taken pictures of one of themselves and unbeknown to them, pictures were set up to be automatically be uploaded to dropbox. So, in the police report, we'd sent them a link to those which clearly showed one of their faces. But yeah, nothing happened.

[malchior]

Quick update - I wasn't give any reason but the credit card company closed my dispute. I tried calling to get an explanation but they only told me it was closed and I was responsible for the charge. I asked some simple questions like why haven't I been contacted about any of the investigations? What did you investigate? They couldn't provide me details. Cool. Put Citibank on my shit list too. Legally I am owed an explanation but I guess tell that to Citibank?

It looks like this has become a lawsuit. My BIL is a lawyer and is going to help me draft a demand letter. We'll try that and in parallel move on to gathering the info for the potential small claim suit. Which will almost certainly result in a settlement since NJ requires corporate appearance in small claims court. He expects they won't bother fighting it since most people won't go to these lengths. Sheesh. Talk about a hassle.

[Jaymann]

Wow, in my experience a credit card company not siding with their customer is almost unheard of. Who's running that place, Franz Kafka?

[Carpet_pissr]

Quick update - I wasn't give any reason but the credit card company closed my dispute. I tried calling to get an explanation but they only told me it was closed and I was responsible for the charge.

Holy shit. Remind me never to have a Citibank card. That is bonkers...the very VERY few times (4 maybe?) I've disputed stuff on a credit card, it was always resolved in my favor. I always thought if it was less than X amount (where X is probably a lot higher than we would expect), they just process it because cost of 'investigating' is more than X.

Wow.

Have you disputed many credit card charges in the past (this or any other card)?

[malchior]

Quick update - I wasn't give any reason but the credit card company closed my dispute. I tried calling to get an explanation but they only told me it was closed and I was responsible for the charge.

Holy shit. Remind me never to have a Citibank card. That is bonkers...the very VERY few times (4 maybe?) I've disputed stuff on a credit card, it was always resolved in my favor. I always thought if it was less than X amount (where X is probably a lot higher than we would expect), they just process it because cost of 'investigating' is more than X.

Wow.

Have you disputed many credit card charges in the past (this or any other card)?

Never. First time I've ever disputed a charge,
complained about a lost package with BB, etc. I'm really not happy but it certainly feeds into my mood about the way things are going in general. There are supposed to be layers of protection. None of them have worked in my favor. I did badger my way to talk to an investigator. They closed it because Best Buy provided proof that the package was delivered. Insane. I'm never trusting mail order ever again for anything even a little valuable.

I got pointed and said the dispute never was whether something was delivered. I said my dispute clearly discussed that I received swapped contents and have evidence of it. I told them I filed a police report, yadda yadda. They never did anything beyond get confirmation of delivery and closed the case. It's really, really shoddy. So I now am going to get the police report, mail it to South Dakota with the photos and videos (don't know how that'll work) but this is insane. Essentially they can throw anything on your porch and BB and Citibank will say 'Case Closed'. Never shop with Best Buy online. It's simply not safe.

The main thing is that there is a big gap here. The Fed Ex staff has a license to periodically steal. As long as it is low level enough they probably get away with it. And apparently they'll stick the victim with it now as well. It's gross.

[Blackhawk]

This could have been one company showing their ass - FedEx - but every other company involved in any way showed the worst of the corporate attitude of customers as commodities. FWIW, I occasionally pick something up at Best Buy (it's the only B&M electronics store within a hundred miles), but I won't be anymore.

I really wish more people were seeing this. There are two things that get under my skin and get me worked up more than anything else: people held responsible by for what wasn't their fault, and when those who willfully do wrong are 'immune' to consequences. This falls squarely into the latter.

[Octavious]

Lesson is always store pickup as mail is totally broken now. Heck you might even get something free.

[pr0ner]

Lesson is always store pickup as mail is totally broken now. Heck you might even get something free.

I can just as easily anecdotally counter this by saying I've never had an issue with Best Buy (or FedEx) in the way your brother has.

[LawBeefaroni]

As someone who has had several lost/stolen packages and more than a few mixed up deliveries, this is surprising to me. In nearly every case my issues were resolved quickly with a refund or a replacement.

I think this is either just a perfect storm of bad luck or someone knew what they were doing and fucked up the works when they stole it.

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Buried as it may well be within flea script red tapery, I suspect as a jinxed and woebegone New Jerseyite, it's legally incumbent upon malchior and his Sisyphean ilk to soak up such derisive conduct on behalf of otherwise fine and upstanding American citizenry. Because Hell isn't other people, it's New Jersey.

[malchior]

Lesson is always store pickup as mail is totally broken now. Heck you might even get something free.

I can just as easily anecdotally counter this by saying I've never had an issue with Best Buy (or FedEx) in the way your brother has.

Yeah. I've had exactly one issue. It's obviously rare but one time is enough for me. Never again.

[malchior]

As someone who has had several lost/stolen packages and more than a few mixed up deliveries, this is surprising to me. In nearly every case my issues were resolved quickly with a refund or a replacement.

Same. I've never had an issue getting help with a missing package before. It has happened a few times with no questions asked over the years. Like I said though once you see how it can go bad...it really underlines how badly it can go.

I think this is either just a perfect storm of bad luck or someone knew what they were doing and fucked up the works when they stole it.

It's the opposite. The person screwed up and gave me evidence to prove I didn't receive the item. If they stuffed anything else but something with an actual FedEx label on it that was out for delivery at the same time and place it would be harder to prove the loss. The cops certainly believed me. Its obvious if you look at it. And i provided the pictures in the claim.

The problem is no one in the BB or credit card chain is doing their job on the investigations side. And it's obvious they didn't even read the claim. The agent reading off that the case was closed because the package was delivered was a slap in the face. The first sentence of the chargeback claim was that i received a package from BB that didn't have the original contents. I asked the investigator to read it to me. Which prompted a ... oh ... and then suggested I disagree with the resolution and mail them the police report. It is really as bad as it sounds. This is just pure corporate fuckery.

Also, I try to avoid going off script. I do exactly what they tell me to do but keep copies of everything. Zero editorial content.

What do you mean here? This is what I am doing. Unfortunately they aren't doing anything but the bare minimum here. And I'm going to have to go to extra lengths for them to do the right thing. I am also thinking of going to one of those news "problem solver" folks because the story is wacky enough that it might have some interest. I really don't want to be stuck here but they are really screwing me.

[Exodor]

I'm really glad I didn't read this thread last week.

In February I ordered a new fairly expensive gaming PC from HP. It finally shipped in late March with FedEx and was out for delivery on Saturday. I was refreshing the delivery status page and it changed to "delivery exception - customer not available" or something similar - odd, since I was home and there was no delivery attempt. I checked my front door camera and FedEx had not been to my door.

I was less concerned with theft than I was with them delivering it to the wrong address so I called FedEx. The agent was completely unhelpful - she just ignored my questions about how a delivery exception was generated when no delivery attempt was made - but assured me they had the correct address and another delivery attempt would be made that day. A few hours later my kid noticed a FedEx guy walking away from our house. He had left my "signature required'" delivery on the front porch and walked away. I got my PC (it's pretty sweet!) but the whole process made me really anxious and uneasy.

[Lassr]

He had left my "signature required'" delivery on the front porch and walked away.

Kind of the same thing happened with my computer delivery last month from Fedex. He did ring the doorbell, I was expecting him and opened the door and got my computer, I was waiting to sign off since signature was required but he started walking away. I asked "Don't I need to sign for it." He just said he'd sign my name.

[Blackhawk]

"delivery exception - customer not available"

I had this on something a while back and did some digging. Technically it means they attempted delivery and were unable to - the business was closed, nobody answered the door, etc. In practice it is the de facto catch-all used by FedEx drivers for everything from "ran out of time" to "prefer to do it later on the route" to "road is too inconvenient, let the next guy mess with it" to "don't wanna - going home." The support agents know this, and carefully skip around answering any questions related to it for just that reason.

[Blackhawk]

He had left my "signature required'" delivery on the front porch and walked away.

Kind of the same thing happened with my computer delivery last month from Fedex. He did ring the doorbell, I was expecting him and opened the door and got my computer, I was waiting to sign off since signature was required but he started walking away. I asked "Don't I need to sign for it." He just said he'd sign my name.

FWIW, I've had a few deliveries from FedEx and UPS over the past year that required signatures, and they all did this. I asked about it once (I actually have a good relationship with the regular drivers), and it turns out it is company-wide due to COVID. They don't want their drivers handing their tablets around, getting sick, and then not being able to drive. I'm guessing that they're willing to assume whatever liability comes as a result as cheaper than running out of drivers.

[Carpet_pissr]

USPS didn’t do signatures (maybe still don’t) throughout COVID, even for certified letters believe it or not.

Also note that many many many if not most delivery drivers are not employees of those companies (especially FedEx AFAIK).

Pretty much anyone can buy a FedEx route (there are tons of sites selling all kinds of routes, mostly FedEx), and I believe all FEDEX drivers are independent contractors (yes they still wear the uniform and have the truck).

Not that that should matter, but it MAY shed some light on FedEx’s lack of real interest here. It shouldn’t, of course bc most customers don’t know (and probably don’t care) that the people delivering their shit don’t work for the company that customers assume are delivering said shit.

Finally, BH has it right re: non-delivered stuff marked ‘delivered’ or 'attempted: undeliverable'.

Reason #1: ran out of time, manager tells driver to mark package as ‘business closed’, ‘dog out in yard’ etc etc.

I’ve seen managers mark half a truckload of packages as ‘not deliverable due to dog on premises’ at 9:30p bc the carrier couldn’t get his absurd number of packages out before double overtime kicked in.

[Rumpy]

Yeah, the point about contractors is a good one. I don't know how it works in the U.S, but in Canada, I don't think I've ever seen marked Fedex or UPS trucks. They're all usually contractors, at least in my corner of the world, or sometimes subcontractor outfits like DHL or Purolator.