Octopus Overlords

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:04 pm

Holman wrote: I think the main crisis of all this is internal migration and its economic impacts. It might be true that many states are no more extreme than a 60-40 split, but that (already) results in partisan state legislatures with pretty extreme agendas. If those legislatures gain a freer hand to enact those agendas, things change pretty quickly.

Most states are moderate. According to pew, there's only six "states" where the majority party has more than 55% of the populace.
District of Columbia 73%
Vermont 57%
Wyoming 57%
Massachusetts 56%
Delaware 55%
Maryland 55%

But that's not how state legislatures work. Where do we see any influence of a moderating influence by the political minority in, say, Texas?

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:51 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:04 pm

Holman wrote: I think the main crisis of all this is internal migration and its economic impacts. It might be true that many states are no more extreme than a 60-40 split, but that (already) results in partisan state legislatures with pretty extreme agendas. If those legislatures gain a freer hand to enact those agendas, things change pretty quickly.

Most states are moderate. According to pew, there's only six "states" where the majority party has more than 55% of the populace.
District of Columbia 73%
Vermont 57%
Wyoming 57%
Massachusetts 56%
Delaware 55%
Maryland 55%

But that's not how state legislatures work. Where do we see any influence of a moderating influence by the political minority in, say, Texas?

To what purpose? No armed forces, no federal funds, and forcing everyone who disagrees to give up their US citizenship?

Way better to whine, pretend, and fire up the base.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:30 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:51 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:04 pm

Holman wrote: I think the main crisis of all this is internal migration and its economic impacts. It might be true that many states are no more extreme than a 60-40 split, but that (already) results in partisan state legislatures with pretty extreme agendas. If those legislatures gain a freer hand to enact those agendas, things change pretty quickly.

Most states are moderate. According to pew, there's only six "states" where the majority party has more than 55% of the populace.
District of Columbia 73%
Vermont 57%
Wyoming 57%
Massachusetts 56%
Delaware 55%
Maryland 55%

But that's not how state legislatures work. Where do we see any influence of a moderating influence by the political minority in, say, Texas?

To what purpose? No armed forces, no federal funds, and forcing everyone who disagrees to give up their US citizenship?

Way better to whine, pretend, and fire up the base.

But that's what the earlier parts of the thread are trying to game out.

Suppose every state knows that in ten years their legislature will vote on whether to leave or remain in the Union, and suppose the mutual understanding is that departure will be peacefully allowed. As for the military, everyone assumes that what's in your state stays in your state.

What happens then?

I've always wondered what would happen if the Red states only have access to federal funds raised by taxes in their states while Blue states had access to federal funds raised by taxes in their states.

I'm willing to bet Red states would find ways to increase their state taxes real quick.

As for a moderating influence, try this on for size: The minority party in any state gets to redraw the district map.

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 8:35 pm
But that's what the earlier parts of the thread are trying to game out.

Suppose every state knows that in ten years their legislature will vote on whether to leave or remain in the Union, and suppose the mutual understanding is that departure will be peacefully allowed. As for the military, everyone assumes that what's in your state stays in your state.

What happens then?

Best guess?

Red states become like Mexico. Lots of economic opportunity with lots of poverty, corruption, and crime. Blue States? Who knows. The democratic party is so disfunctional, I can't imagine them being able to handle the disparate factions. If they didn't enact a parliamentary system, it would just splinter further.

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:13 pm As for a moderating influence, try this on for size: The minority party in any state gets to redraw the district map.

Or that the winner of the popular vote has veto power on distract maps. (Of course that's just my selfish interpretation locally for the last I don't even know how many years)

Little Raven wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:13 pm

Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:58 pmIf we get to that point, the shit will hit the fan, and all this talk about divorce or dissolution will be on the table. Until then, it's just a bad dream.

I'm not sure why THAT would be the demarcation point. I mean, the Constitution is silent on the issue of abortion, which means it's fair game for both the Feds and the States. Right now, Federal law is silent on it as well, meaning states can do whatever they please, but if either side gains enough control of Congress to enact Federal legislation, (which is a very, VERY high bar, assuming the filibuster sticks around) then I wouldn't expect the Court to intervene.

But then, the line where a government becomes unbearably tyrannical is ultimately an individual decision. Drazzil got there long ago, after all.

Yeah I did. Americans are peasants though. We will allow ourselves to be put in any living situation, to endure any hardship, watch our kids get murdered, watch our family members die of treatable diseases, bear any insult injury or killing blow before we hold those in power responsible.

Want to know why the economy is in desperate need of "entry level": Read slave labor workers? Because those who are at the top would rather run the business at a loss (and claim the tax credit) then shell out for a living wage. Its the same for housing. Easier to keep a unit empty and take a tax deduction at market value then discount the rent.

Our economic system has been set up to destroy those who punch a clock for a living. I am seeing that working the job I have now. I am losing all my benefits and essentially paying to work the job I have at full time status. You cannot make ANY ends meet working the jobs that are created.

Many on the sidelines of employment see this and skip the process entirely, deciding to continue grey or black market employment or live four generations to a domicile then subject themselves to that.

"Am I coming to a point!?" You ask

Yes, Yes I am. There will be NO national divorce. We're too intertwined. It won't even be a Syrian style civil war; too late for that too. Our collapse will be like Somalia. Eventually people will immigrate to like minded areas but this too will be hampered by the destruction wrought by getting to the self sorting stage.

I'm done talking and thinking about this. Prepare for what's next, or don't. Spend time with what makes you happy, because our system is breathing it's last. It's coasting by on social norms, inertia, cooked books, routine oppression and antidepressants. Literally any shock will send it tumbling down.

Smoke em if you got em. Good luck all.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... g-U-S.html

Texas Republicans want to hold a referendum next year to decide whether or not the state should secede from the U.S.

...

Under a section titled 'State Sovereignty,' the platform states: 'Pursuant to Article 1, Section 1, of the Texas Constitution, the federal government has impaired our right of local self-government. Therefore, federally mandated legislation that infringes upon the 10th Amendment rights of Texas should be ignored, opposed, refused, and nullified.

'Texas retains the right to secede from the United States, and the Texas Legislature should be called upon to pass a referendum consistent thereto.'

Texas has long pushed an independent movement, called 'Texit.'

Arise, Gilead!

(although TBH, don't they introduce this bill every couple years or so? I know it's not the first time...)

Yes and its dumb every time.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

I say fuck it. Let 'em go.
And then we build a wall around their border to keep 'em out.

*Cough* Hyperbole *Cough*

To be clear, Texas Republicans are calling for a referendum. Nobody is actually doing anything about this yet, though - mostly because it's really stupid, even by Texas Republican standards.

Then this crap

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/20/politics ... index.html

You'd think they'd have more to worry about

Texit won't happen. They're just throwing meat to the economics-changed base with the referendum.

Brian wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:38 pm I say fuck it. Let 'em go.
And then we build a wall around their border to keep 'em out.

*Cough* Hyperbole *Cough*

We keep them walled in but we ship in basic survival goods. This way we can put in drive through windows every mile along the wall. You pull up, demand bbq and then drive off. We wouldn’t even have to talk with them beyond asking for tangy or spicy.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:46 am
I'm done talking and thinking about this. Prepare for what's next, or don't. Spend time with what makes you happy, because our system is breathing it's last. It's coasting by on social norms, inertia, cooked books, routine oppression and antidepressants. Literally any shock will send it tumbling down.

Smoke em if you got em. Good luck all.

Doomsday is May 8th, 2021!

<May 9th>

Okay, I was off a bit. Doomsday is June 12th!

<June 13th>

I misunderstood the talking dog prophet. Doomsday is August 2nd!

<August 3rd>

…sigh…Doomsday is the 34th of Fuckurary.

Would this hasten or slow the rate of Taco Trucks on every corner?

Unagi wrote:Would this hasten or slow the rate of Taco Trucks on every corner?

I'm pro taco truck.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:34 am

Unagi wrote:Would this hasten or slow the rate of Taco Trucks on every corner?

I'm pro taco truck.

I'm very pro taco truck.

I know many wonderful Americans from both sides of the political aisle. Most Republicans I know hate Trump and wouldn't vote for him but they will vote below the line for Republicans who will be afraid to cross him. They will never vote Democrat ever thanks to media conditioning and their faith in the governors of their red state.

The main issue is many states are now one party states and most news especially Fox News talk about the enemy within and the other side of politics in less than human terms. Combined with social media bots being absolutely effective at brainwashing people from being centrist into embracing weird conspiracy theories like Jim Carrey being the stand in for Joe Biden who died years ago its clear why democracy is in danger.

Ok. That conspiracy theory makes me smile.

I like to think of fake-old-man Biden breaking character and giving us some old-school Jim Carrey routines.

Further Biden-voting counties amounted to 70% of GDP, while 60% of college-educated voters chose Biden. That is to say, the left-democratic wing of America is the productive and educated part of the country.

Therefore a national divorce actually benefits the blue states.

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:17 am Further Biden-voting counties amounted to 70% of GDP, while 60% of college-educated voters chose Biden. That is to say, the left-democratic wing of America is the productive and educated part of the country.

Therefore a national divorce actually benefits the blue states.

An Atlantic article that I read tonight said that if blue and red economies separated, blue would be #1, China would be #2, and red states would be #3 in the world. I think they divided purple between the two to figure that.

Saw that, but have not read it yet. I swear someone here is an ‘Atlantic’ writer or editor.

So many coincidences of thoughts and timing.

waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:17 am Further Biden-voting counties amounted to 70% of GDP, while 60% of college-educated voters chose Biden. That is to say, the left-democratic wing of America is the productive and educated part of the country.

Therefore a national divorce actually benefits the blue states.

Which is why it won't happen. Not until the red states figure out a way to keep the blue states paying for all their shit.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:59 am It's a nonstarter. The economics alone would prohibit any kind of split.

Texas is not going to take on the burden of Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi.

Texas won't even take on the burden of Texas.