The insurrection committee's public hearings

[Unagi]

No one of any significance to Trump will be put out or inconvenced in any way shape or form. The outcome is a foregone conclusion. The Democrats are concentrating on the wrong thing. They know Trump is teflon. Another fine example of kabuki theater.

Oh, but you will be happy to go to the phone banks and fight hard for Democracy. Is that right?

Looks like the Drazzil pendulum has started to swing back the other way it would seem.

Shocking.

[hepcat]

Man, I really want DeSantis to become the GOP candidate in 2024, and then a pissed off (on?) orange man baby runs as an independent and effectively destroys the GOP vote, making the dems a sure win.

I can dream, can’t I?

[Carpet_pissr]

Man, I really want DeSantis to become the GOP candidate in 2024, and then a pissed off (on?) orange man baby runs as an independent and effectively destroys the GOP vote, making the dems a sure win.

I can dream, can’t I?

I curse you for putting that in my head.

[Drazzil]

No one of any significance to Trump will be put out or inconvenced in any way shape or form. The outcome is a foregone conclusion. The Democrats are concentrating on the wrong thing. They know Trump is teflon. Another fine example of kabuki theater.

Oh, but you will be happy to go to the phone banks and fight hard for Democracy. Is that right?

Looks like the Drazzil pendulum has started to swing back the other way it would seem.

Shocking.

No. I know it's useless as I indicated in my original post..but I'll do it anyway.

[Jaymann]

Florida Man (orange) can run under the Fleece and Bleed'em party.

[malchior]

Actually, you are right. They really didn’t say anything beyond what you mentioned. So a VM or text is totally speculative.

But I also really hope they got more than a ‘missed call’, if they sent it to the DOJ.

We know a little more now according to new reproting. Even a missed call is suspicious in light of the new information. Trump reached out to a junior white house staffer who never ever spoke to Trump before.

I don't know if that's enough on its own but we don't know when, how, or the what was conveyed. I'm thinking though there however is enough just based on yhis information to understand why the committee thought it merited investigation.

[Zaxxon]

We know a little more now according to new reproting. Even a missed call is suspicious in light of the new information. Trump reached out to a junior white house staffer who never ever spoke to Trump before.

Not only that, but I'm confident that this junior WH staffer was a terrible, low-energy loser that Trump had never seen personally. Someone who's also lyin' and certainly a RINO. The worst.

[hepcat]

It would have been better to accept the call and then tape it.

[Drazzil]

It would have been better to accept the call and then tape it.

Yep and if the commission wouldn't hear it cause of evidence issues should release to the press.

[hepcat]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

[stessier]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

Depends where the call was coming from and received. California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington are two-party consent states (meaning everyone has to agree to being recorded).

Edit to add Connecticut and Michigan are in the Maybe? group apparently - read your local laws before recording.

[malchior]

Hopefully it was from Bedninster. I can feel his dark presence from here. I too would have loved to hear it taped like the GA affair.

[ImLawBoy]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

Depends where the call was coming from and received. California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington are two-party consent states (meaning everyone has to agree to being recorded).

Not to get too far into the weeds, but that's just talking about whether the act of recording was legal or not. Even if it was made illegally it still may be admissible as evidence if the government obtained the recording legally and did not participate in the causing the recording (that's very high level - the devil is in the details, of course).

[stessier]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

Depends where the call was coming from and received. California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington are two-party consent states (meaning everyone has to agree to being recorded).

Not to get too far into the weeds, but that's just talking about whether the act of recording was legal or not. Even if it was made illegally it still may be admissible as evidence if the government obtained the recording legally and did not participate in the causing the recording (that's very high level - the devil is in the details, of course).

Interesting. So the Recorder could still get in trouble even though the government could use it?

Also, the committee isn't bound by the normal rules of evidence, so they could use it in any case.

[ImLawBoy]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

Depends where the call was coming from and received. California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington are two-party consent states (meaning everyone has to agree to being recorded).

Not to get too far into the weeds, but that's just talking about whether the act of recording was legal or not. Even if it was made illegally it still may be admissible as evidence if the government obtained the recording legally and did not participate in the causing the recording (that's very high level - the devil is in the details, of course).

Interesting. So the Recorder could still get in trouble even though the government could use it?

Correct.

Also, the committee isn't bound by the normal rules of evidence, so they could use it in any case.

Yes, the committee could use it, but the analysis of whether it's admissible comes into play if the DOJ were to try to use it in a criminal prosecution.

[Drazzil]

The caveat here being that I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if that would be admissible in any court of law. Or even legal.

Depends where the call was coming from and received. California, Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington are two-party consent states (meaning everyone has to agree to being recorded).

Not to get too far into the weeds, but that's just talking about whether the act of recording was legal or not. Even if it was made illegally it still may be admissible as evidence if the government obtained the recording legally and did not participate in the causing the recording (that's very high level - the devil is in the details, of course).

Interesting. So the Recorder could still get in trouble even though the government could use it?

Correct.

Also, the committee isn't bound by the normal rules of evidence, so they could use it in any case.

Yes, the committee could use it, but the analysis of whether it's admissible comes into play if the DOJ were to try to use it in a criminal prosecution.

Yeeeeeaaah. I understand *why* this rule is in place but aren't these rules waived in a lot of places if the other party is in the act of committing a crime? Also, with EVERYTHING the other side has done, is doin and will do please allow me to express my profound disgust with the idea that this late in the game the Vichycrats are even having this conversation, with the country and hundreds of millions of lives potentially at stake. It's like arguing over the rules of a card game when an active shooter is in the building.

TBH IMO Another sign the system is fuckin doomed.

[Grifman]

She was trying to stop the riot:

[Isgrimnur]

[hepcat]

...if only there were video.

[Jaymann]

You got it all wrong. Congress was the riot she was trying to stop.

[Holman]

Man, I really want DeSantis to become the GOP candidate in 2024, and then a pissed off (on?) orange man baby runs as an independent and effectively destroys the GOP vote, making the dems a sure win.

I can dream, can’t I?

Nah. They'll cut some kind of deal.

Assuming indictments aren't coming, the obvious ticket is Trump/DeSantis. Florida Man 2 is young and knows that he'll get to the presidency eventually.

If Trump is in too much legal trouble, he can promise DeSantis his full-throated support in exchange for a suite of pardons.

[hepcat]

The thing is, I don't see either one being capable of "kissing the ring". Those two egos cannot exist in the same space.

[Zaxxon]

Trump promise

This is a nonsensical statement.

[malchior]

Cool. Cool. Cool. Nice to see the Secret Service continues to be scandalous.

[Octavious]

Jesus this just gets crazier and crazier.. And I guess we just shrug and say oh well?

[Smoove_B]

I'm sure the "retirement" of the former head of the Secret Service a week ago is just coincidental.

[malchior]

We will continue to shrug because people don't want to admit how fucked up it actually is. The Tony Ornato stuff alone should concern us greatly. He was plucked from Secret Service into a political position then returned into the leadership after the failed coup. And then we see evidence of a cover up - oh I mean accidental data loss in a routine operation that happens to cover 1/6? Bullshit. We have all the signs of criminals running our government. We won't even hold the criminals not actually in the government accountable. I've completely lost hope that the United States is a law and order nation. We're not Russia but we sure as shit aren't the shining city on the hill.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

[malchior]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

[stessier]

Having lived through Deflategate, those message still exist. They just have to go to the cell carrier to get them.

[Isgrimnur]

When they're trying to destroy evidence, they're not using their best.

[malchior]

Having lived through Deflategate, those message still exist. They just have to go to the cell carrier to get them.

They very well might still exist but we don't know what platform they were using. If they were using Telegram for instance, they could be gone.

[stessier]

Having lived through Deflategate, those message still exist. They just have to go to the cell carrier to get them.

They very well might still exist but we don't know what platform they were using. If they were using Telegram for instance, they could be gone.

I would be impressed if they were that smart.

[noxiousdog]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

[LawBeefaroni]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

We know about it now because before they tried not to get caught. Now it doesn't matter.

[malchior]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

We know about it now because before they tried not to get caught. Now it doesn't matter.

I agree and that has lead to an increase in scale. We just aren't a rule of law nation anymore (and I'm desperately hoping to be proven wrong). I mean when Hoover was criming it was largely contained and out of sight. It doesn't make it right but it wasn't some epidemic of lawlessness undermining trust in the whole system. That is what we face now.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

Eh, after WW2, the shared experience of the War inculcated American ideals before foreign gangster money. Even the mob was all in on America first. IMHO, that really died after the end of the Cold War, but had been waning as WW2 went further into the rearview mirror.

[malchior]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

Eh, after WW2, the shared experience of the War inculcated American ideals before foreign gangster money. Even the mob was all in on America first. IMHO, that really died after the end of the Cold War, but had been waning as WW2 went further into the rearview mirror.

I think people really underestimate this factor. If you were to go listen to business leaders in the 50s and 60s you'd hear them bragging about paying taxes and supporting good paying jobs. Then the Friedman's of the world and Wall Street vultures changed the conversation to be about stockholder maximization and took us onto this dark path. The political class followed them as they first chased donations and the revolving door began spinning. It took decades but the United States is incredibly corrupt *compared to our past selves*.

[Pyperkub]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

Eh, after WW2, the shared experience of the War inculcated American ideals before foreign gangster money. Even the mob was all in on America first. IMHO, that really died after the end of the Cold War, but had been waning as WW2 went further into the rearview mirror.

I think people really underestimate this factor. If you were to go listen to business leaders in the 50s and 60s you'd hear them bragging about paying taxes and supporting good paying jobs. Then the Friedman's of the world and Wall Street vultures changed the conversation to be about stockholder maximization and took us onto this dark path. The political class followed them as they first chased donations and the revolving door began spinning. It took decades but the United States is incredibly corrupt *compared to our past selves*.

Agreed. It was a time when:

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organise and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.”

And there's a reason we can't do the hard things anymore.

[Kurth]

Yeah, it's become pretty clear there are different rules depending on what class you're in and at a certain level, you're effectively untouchable.

It's crazy this used to be a fringe view and now the majority of Americans see it this way. In a very real way it feels like we've turned into a Russia-lite where everyone knows there are pockets of gangsters running things and can't do anything about it. It is only a matter of time before everything is run by gangsters and we are at full Russian corruption levels at this rate.

It's always been this way. We just know about it now.

Eh, after WW2, the shared experience of the War inculcated American ideals before foreign gangster money. Even the mob was all in on America first. IMHO, that really died after the end of the Cold War, but had been waning as WW2 went further into the rearview mirror.

I think people really underestimate this factor. If you were to go listen to business leaders in the 50s and 60s you'd hear them bragging about paying taxes and supporting good paying jobs. Then the Friedman's of the world and Wall Street vultures changed the conversation to be about stockholder maximization and took us onto this dark path. The political class followed them as they first chased donations and the revolving door began spinning. It took decades but the United States is incredibly corrupt *compared to our past selves*.

I'm really interested in this. I think it's pretty much agreed that compared to other countries around the world today, corruption in the U.S. is minimal. But I'm struggling with the notion that we are more corrupt than our past selves.

If it exists, I'd love to see some support for that beyond just anecdotes or the feels.

I think we also need to define what we mean by corruption and what "past selves" we are talking about, specifically.

It's an interesting thought, though.