The insurrection committee's public hearings

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:02 pm

There are so many crazy details coming out of this thing that it hard to believe it wasn't reported before now. Secret Service agents were saying goodbye to their families on the radio?! Pence almost got cornered by the mob?!

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:16 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:23 pm Well here we go, the Season 1 finale

More like season 6. And they all end the same. Nothing happens.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:28 pm

I cant seem to find anything on this to show my wife:

Can someone re-share with me the story about someone in Congress that had hinted on January 5th that Pence may not be available on Jan 6th. I can't find a thing about that to share with her.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm

If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:53 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.

We were done when he was able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP in 2016. It has just been endless confirmation since then.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:57 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:28 pm I cant seem to find anything on this to show my wife:

Can someone re-share with me the story about someone in Congress that had hinted on January 5th that Pence may not be available on Jan 6th. I can't find a thing about that to share with her.

Posted ~10am on the morning of 1/5/2021

NEW: Iowa Sen. Charles E. Grassley, the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since "we don't expect him to be there."

Grassley said he will listen to debate and that "it would be really wrong for me to say I have my mind made up."

Grassley's office clarifies that he was meaning to explain what would happen if Pence had to step away during Wednesday's proceedings to count Electoral College votes. "Every indication we have is that the vice president will be there," Grassley's office said.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:00 pm

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:09 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:23 pm Well here we go, the Season 1 finale

Turns out that was the half-season finale. They'll be back in September. And, one hopes, run right through October. (We know they'll be canceled in November.)

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:18 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:08 pm Meanwhile, Trump is GOING BONKERS.

Edit: Trump deleted it. Probably because it was dated January 5th, 2020 and his team has such attention to the details.

Essentially, it was a tweet saying that the NYT article about Pence telling Trump he couldn't do anything tomorrow was #FakeNews and that Pence was going to toss the election tomorrow.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:10 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:09 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:23 pm Well here we go, the Season 1 finale
Turns out that was the half-season finale. They'll be back in September. And, one hopes, run right through October. (We know they'll be canceled in November.)

Yeah.
That’s what people have been saying is Season 2.
September

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:34 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:10 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:09 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:23 pm Well here we go, the Season 1 finale
Turns out that was the half-season finale. They'll be back in September. And, one hopes, run right through October. (We know they'll be canceled in November.)
Yeah.
That’s what people have been saying is Season 2.
September

More like an epilogue at this point.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:44 am

Well, I must say that throwaway comment of mine has certainly gotten a lot of pushback.

I don't think it's an epilogue because I think that would imply that it's over, no? And I do think there will be at least one more in September, if not another 'round of em', from what they have said. No?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:54 am

Depends largely on the ratings.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:56 am

Thread of Josh Hawley once again getting memed.

Edit to add: Adam Kinzinger called Hawley "Fistpump McRunpants" in a tweet this morning.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:00 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:57 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:28 pm I cant seem to find anything on this to show my wife:

Can someone re-share with me the story about someone in Congress that had hinted on January 5th that Pence may not be available on Jan 6th. I can't find a thing about that to share with her.
Posted ~10am on the morning of 1/5/2021

NEW: Iowa Sen. Charles E. Grassley, the Senate president pro tempore, says he and not Vice President Mike Pence will preside over the certification of Electoral College votes, since "we don't expect him to be there."

Grassley said he will listen to debate and that "it would be really wrong for me to say I have my mind made up."

Grassley's office clarifies that he was meaning to explain what would happen if Pence had to step away during Wednesday's proceedings to count Electoral College votes. "Every indication we have is that the vice president will be there," Grassley's office said.

I don't understand why the committee hasn't drawn an eye to this. To me, this seems obvious a flash of their hand a day before it would make any sense. It clearly shows there was a plan to scare Pence off.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:17 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:44 am Well, I must say that throwaway comment of mine has certainly gotten a lot of pushback.

I don't think it's an epilogue because I think that would imply that it's over, no?

It's not really pushback. They did a great job especially with at least one agency that appears to have gone rogue but it's been over. For longer than we like to pretend. This was for history.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:21 am

I’m not quite there yet ‘Drazzil’.

Almost.

But I actually do agree and say it to people in person all the time: the most important part of this if for History perhaps. So yeah, I’m nearly there but just not quite there

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:24 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:00 amI don't understand why the committee hasn't drawn an eye to this. To me, this seems obvious a flash of their hand a day before it would make any sense. It clearly shows there was a plan to scare Pence off.

Mostly because it is harder to specifically document and drifts toward speculation. FWIW I think intimidating Pence was baked into what happened.

The committee did a good job showing how they pressured Pence to enlist when the election lawsuits started falling apart. The committee walked through a lot of the effort to bully him at that point. That it'd cease seems implausible and it also seems reasonable to assume part of the "plan" to disrupt the counting was to intimidate Pence and several Congresspersons were playing along with it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:26 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:21 am I’m not quite there yet ‘Drazzil’.
Almost.

But I actually do agree and say it to people in person all the time: the most important part of this if for History perhaps. So yeah, I’m nearly there but just not quite there

Fair enough. Never say never. And I also leave some room for the highly unlikely but I'm trying to be a realist here. If something does happen, IMO it'll be too little too late. I'm well past the point where I'd simply be happy to see justice happen to wondering why the system is so afraid to protect us from monsters like Trump. Even when they commit obvious, well-documented crimes.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:38 am

One last post but thought Josh Marshall did a great job talking through the record retention issues that I alluded to above. As I mentioned the 3-letter guys I know couldn't understand it. There are real big questions that need to be drilled into at Secret Service.

Note: He doesn't get into the court intrigue which has several confounding layers such as the Ornato/Murray role issues which are outrageous on their own.

Talkingpoints Memo

The Secret Service text destruction story has been a sort of slow burn. As Kate Riga and I discussed in the new podcast episode, I think this is due to the fact that a lot of people in government and media are having a hard time making sense of the story. They keep wanting to hear more because the current facts don’t make any sense. More to the point, both the guilty and the innocent versions of events seem equally absurd. Is it really possible that the Secret Service would purge its records of Jan. 5th and 6th and somehow not think anyone would notice or care? It seems too over-the-top and brazen even for some of the most cynical of observers. At the same time, the Secret Service’s explanation seems even more absurd. Let’s take a moment to walk through what that story is.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:49 am

The idea that the Secret Service would value an individual in office above the office of the President and the Constitution is a bit frightening. Would any of them hesitate to take a bullet for Biden on the campaign trail? I know I'd be taking a second look at my team in that situation.

Nowhere is safe from partisanship any more.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:00 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:49 am The idea that the Secret Service would value an individual in office above the office of the President and the Constitution is a bit frightening. Would any of them hesitate to take a bullet for Biden on the campaign trail? I know I'd be taking a second look at my team in that situation.

Nowhere is safe from partisanship any more.

Which is why there are accounts that Biden's transition team only allowed agents he personally knew from his VP days to be assigned to his protective detail. The whole thing gets weirder as Biden kept Trump's sketchily chosen Secret Service in place until he recently 'voluntarily' announced he was leaving to go be Chief Security Officer at Snap. Apparently Trump brought Ornato over from Service to be Deputy White House Chief of Staff, then wanted to install him as head of the Secret Service. It sounds like Ornato wanted to stay in the administration so he suggested Murray. As Marshall writes above in the TPM piece, Murray was head of the agency when the "migration plan" was hatched in December 2020.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. It sounds like a conspiracy theory but it's real. The range of how bad this is is wide. It goes from yeah perhaps Secret Service was run by MAGA loyalists Roman Empire style. On the other end it seems the most generous assessment is that they were so lawless they didn't care they were violating the law around records management. None of it is good. Hopefully it'll be investigated but I won't hold my breath.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:06 am

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:00 am The whole thing gets weirder as Biden kept Trump's sketchily chosen Secret Service in place until he recently 'voluntarily' announced he was leaving to go be Chief Security Officer at Snap.

God, I hope he got paid in time locked shares.

But yeah, it really reeks. Wonder what the cameras captured all those times SS stayed at Mar A Largo.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.

well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...

The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:09 pm

Just came back from a week in NYC. As an aside, it felt like the city is really making good progress coming back from the pandemic. People everywhere. Restaurants, bars, businesses hopping. Felt really vibrant. Nice to be somewhere like that as a break from depressing, post-apocalyptic feeling Portland.

Anyway, relevant to this thread and the comments above, I stayed by Central Park near Trump Tower. Walking down 5th every day to go to meetings, it blew me away the crowd of tourists in front of Trump Tower giving thumbs ups and taking selfies. Men, women, children. Big smiles. Pleased as punch to be there.

Almost like a pilgrimage.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:27 pm

Last time I was near Trump Tower Chicago was a few days after a homeless man was set on fire under one of their loading docks. There were some flowers.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:27 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.
well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...
The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

What I love is the air quote around "LIVE". Is he meaning to call into question whether they were actually live? I assume he just means to cast vague aspersions on their legitimacy without having to really think through what he's saying, but just funny.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:32 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:02 pm There are so many crazy details coming out of this thing that it hard to believe it wasn't reported before now. Secret Service agents were saying goodbye to their families on the radio?! Pence almost got cornered by the mob?!

The other shocking thing to me was the Secret Service report of sounds of EXPLOSIONS in the Rotunda.

It was probably the destruction/breaking and entering through windows, or the tear gas, but it indicates just how insane things were.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:35 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:49 am The idea that the Secret Service would value an individual in office above the office of the President and the Constitution is a bit frightening. Would any of them hesitate to take a bullet for Biden on the campaign trail? I know I'd be taking a second look at my team in that situation.

Nowhere is safe from partisanship any more.

One needs to remember that Trump had/has FULL GOP support in installing Party Officers everywhere, and were moderately successful in purging career Civil Service/Military in favor of Party Officers to oversee and adjust the 'narrative' in real time.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:36 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:27 pm Last time I was near Trump Tower Chicago was a few days after a homeless man was set on fire under one of their loading docks. There were some flowers.

Last time I was there, was with you

(pre 2016, of course...)

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:38 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:32 pmtear gas

Tear gas doesn't explode.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:39 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:38 pm
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:32 pmtear gas
Tear gas doesn't explode.

Fair enough.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:41 pm

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:49 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:56 am Thread of Josh Hawley once again getting memed.

Edit to add: Adam Kinzinger called Hawley "Fistpump McRunpants" in a tweet this morning.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:59 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:36 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:27 pm Last time I was near Trump Tower Chicago was a few days after a homeless man was set on fire under one of their loading docks. There were some flowers.
Last time I was there, was with you (pre 2016, of course...)

The Langham across the street! Love that place. I've got the rounds next time.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:05 pm

naednek wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.
well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...
The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

I've seen lots of talk this morning about how these hearings don't matter because people (like this) aren't tuning in or are even increasing in their support for Trump. Feels worth noting that the hearings aren't intended to sway the "true believers". Sadly, nothing ever will...they are the "Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave" supporters and are firmly entrenched in their beliefs.

The hearing are creating a very solid historical record of what happened that day, what lead up to it, and what actions were taken. I think that's a very important thing to do. I do think it's also opening the eyes of folks to how truly awful it was and how close it came to succeeding. That also feels important.

Now whether anyone ever acts on it or faces any consequences is another discussion entirely.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:14 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:27 pm
naednek wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.
well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...
The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

What I love is the air quote around "LIVE". Is he meaning to call into question whether they were actually live? I assume he just means to cast vague aspersions on their legitimacy without having to really think through what he's saying, but just funny.

I'm guessing "LIVE" because the world is prominently on the screen. Not to imply they're not actually live but that it's preempting all the good stuff like Hardcastle and McCormick syndication or Judge [whoever].

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:15 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:05 pm The hearing are creating a very solid historical record of what happened that day, what lead up to it, and what actions were taken. I think that's a very important thing to do. I do think it's also opening the eyes of folks to how truly awful it was and how close it came to succeeding. That also feels important.

Now whether anyone ever acts on it or faces any consequences is another discussion entirely.

+1

I may be pessimistic anything will come of this, but it definitely needs to be set down on paper for future generations.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:18 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:05 pm
naednek wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.
well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...
The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

I've seen lots of talk this morning about how these hearings don't matter because people (like this) aren't tuning in or are even increasing in their support for Trump. Feels worth noting that the hearings aren't intended to sway the "true believers". Sadly, nothing ever will...they are the "Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave" supporters and are firmly entrenched in their beliefs.

The hearing are creating a very solid historical record of what happened that day, what lead up to it, and what actions were taken. I think that's a very important thing to do. I do think it's also opening the eyes of folks to how truly awful it was and how close it came to succeeding. That also feels important.

Now whether anyone ever acts on it or faces any consequences is another discussion entirely.

I don't disagree but the same thing was said about the impeachment hearings. In fact I probably said something similar about them. We have years of historical records of the destruction of our Democracy under this man and the GOP. That's meaningless if they get to rewrite history in a few years.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:31 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:05 pm
naednek wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 12:53 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:51 pm If he's able to campaign and be nominated by the GOP for President of the United States of America after tonight's hearing, we're done.
well. from my Wife's uncle on FB...
The "LIVE" committee hearings of the January 6th capitol assault.
What a joke, on all the prime time networks, messing up my TV lineup, I don't give a DAMN and I feel many others feel the same way. They screwed with Trump while in office and they just can't let the hate go, liberalism is a true mental disorder.
The bottom line is, this is being done with the hopes to keep Trump out of office for a second term, and for many, it makes it even stronger to elect him for a second term, GO TRUMP 2024.

I've seen lots of talk this morning about how these hearings don't matter because people (like this) aren't tuning in or are even increasing in their support for Trump. Feels worth noting that the hearings aren't intended to sway the "true believers". Sadly, nothing ever will...they are the "Trump could shoot someone on 5th Ave" supporters and are firmly entrenched in their beliefs.

The hearing are creating a very solid historical record of what happened that day, what lead up to it, and what actions were taken. I think that's a very important thing to do. I do think it's also opening the eyes of folks to how truly awful it was and how close it came to succeeding. That also feels important.

Now whether anyone ever acts on it or faces any consequences is another discussion entirely.

The number of independents who think it was an insurrection and threat to democracy has gone up 9% since December.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/21/11125464 ... poll-finds