[Poll] Whom Should Dems Run in 2024?

[Drazzil]

Seriously this is the best idea I've had all week. Joe Biden taps out and Harris comes out swinging. Can you guys think of anything that could better energize the Democrat base?

That was El Guapo’s idea.

No not resign and let someone else run. I think Biden should resign right now, like THIS SECOND. The sooner the better.

[Unagi]

Seriously this is the best idea I've had all week. Joe Biden taps out and Harris comes out swinging. Can you guys think of anything that could better energize the Democrat base?

That was El Guapo’s idea.

No not resign and let someone else run. I think Biden should resign right now, like THIS SECOND. The sooner the better.

What is it you are failing to read in his statement below...

FWIW I think that the cleanest way to change horses, so to speak, would be for Biden to resign due to health issues, giving Harris the incumbency advantage and effectively clearing the field for her (though that wouldn't guarantee that no one would challenge Harris).

One challenge with this is that most likely in January 2023 Democrats would lose the ability to name the replacement VP without getting GOP consent, and in the absence of a replacement the GOP Speaker would be next in line for the presidency. So that'd have to be done sometime in the next few months.

[Holman]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

The future of the Democratic Party is progressive. I'd be surprised if a RINO running as a Democrat--unless they leaned HARD into a leftward stance--could attract more votes than they repelled.

Dems younger than Pelosi and Biden don't want to settle for peace with Romney and Cheney. They want Dems who will fight for the future.

[Pyperkub]

The question isn't the future of the Democratic Party, but rather the future of America. We have a pretty good idea of what that future is if the GOP continues its current trajectory. What we don't know is if enough Americans can cobble together something which can adequately counter that before the GOP takes permanent control.

[Kraken]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.

[Carpet_pissr]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.

At this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.

[Kurth]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.

At this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.

Yes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.

Also, on Baker's 2A stance:
Gov. Baker: Washington Should ‘Look to Massachusetts' for Gun Reform Guidance

Charlie Baker backs Massachusetts’s strict gun laws as a national model

Baker supports federal assault weapons ban, would advocate Mass.-style gun laws to national GOP

[malchior]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.

At this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.

Yes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.

We likely don't live in a time where it's possible. I don't know if he could win the general. It's definitely plausible. However, the primary is the problem and just back of the envelope math makes me think it's politically impossible. The problem with this idea are the kids.

Despite talk about youth not voting, we had the greatest youth turnout since 1964 in 2020. They sat out 2016 and for some reason ( ) felt motivated to show up in 2020. Approximately 50% in 18-24. And 55% in 25-49. You could say 50%?! How could that matter?! The *average was a little over 50%* with relatively high turnout (55-65%) in the populous blue and purple states and low (mid-30s) in red states.

So the next layer down is who did the young overwhelmingly favor in blue/purple states? More liberal/progressive candidates. They didn't generally support centrists and it seems hard to imagine turnout for Charlie Baker there. Which means he almost certainly can't win the Democratic primary.

The future of the Democratic Party is progressive. I'd be surprised if a RINO running as a Democrat--unless they leaned HARD into a leftward stance--could attract more votes than they repelled.

Dems younger than Pelosi and Biden don't want to settle for peace with Romney and Cheney. They want Dems who will fight for the future.

Missed this but this is the big picture on the electoral math I laid out above. The problem is our democracy has to survive for this future to be possible. This oncoming demographic wave is deeply involved in driving the anti-democratic elements in the crisis we see.

[Kraken]

So the Yankee RINO Governor (whose name escapes me) is out? Talk about standing up to BS...that guy should switch parties immediately since he probably doesn't recognize the GOP anymore. The little bit I've heard him, really liked the cut of his jib.

Depending on his 2a stance, I would totally vote for him (who shall remain nameless because Googling is hard).

Plus, that is a crazy, bold ballsy move, somethign we sorely need right now (going back to the Hail Mary analogy here). Have someone whose party totally betrayed them via radicalization fight back. Many of those types are SUPER angry at having their political worldview party hijacked by a bunch of know-nothing nutjobs, and know how to fight the beast better than D's probably.

Charlie Baker has shown no indication of further political ambitions. Doesn't mean he'll never be back, but for now he seems inclined to write his memoir and make a ton of money. Go out on a high note and leave 'em wanting more.

At this point, just being able to leave with your integrity intact is a feat. And yes, Charlie Baker is who I was thinking of, thanks.

Yes, yes, yes! I stopped beating that drum because I didn't think anyone was listening. But if the Dems ran Charlie Baker against Trump (or even DeSantis), I think this country might have a shot.

Also, on Baker's 2A stance:
Gov. Baker: Washington Should ‘Look to Massachusetts' for Gun Reform Guidance

Charlie Baker backs Massachusetts’s strict gun laws as a national model

Baker supports federal assault weapons ban, would advocate Mass.-style gun laws to national GOP

"Massachusetts, which bans assault weapons and high-capacity magazines and requires background checks for gun licenses, had the nation’s lowest rate of gun deaths in 2019, the most recent year for which data are available"

So far this year, Boston has had only seven gun fatalities, which is far below any comparable US city. Gun control works. It would work a lot better if we didn't have states with loose regulation (I'm looking at you, NH) on our borders. However, I must also acknowledge that Mass. has no real "gun culture." Fewer than 1% of residents take out hunting licenses, for example. Strict regulation only works if the citizens want it.

[noxiousdog]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

[malchior]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

This is the case being put forward for Newsom. There was just a good WaPo opinion piece about it.

WaPo

The shooting at a July Fourth parade in Illinois seemed somehow different — it wasn’t just one more massacre. This was obvious to everyone, especially liberals who criticize American gun culture and the difficulty of passing legislation at the national level. Nowhere seems safe, and politicians are unable or unwilling to do anything about it.

For those liberals, the reaction of their party’s leadership, if not nearly as repugnant as the GOP’s standard “thoughts and prayers,” is nonetheless frustrating. Our country feels like it’s spinning downward at an ever-more-furious pace, and the party is led by superannuated politicians who at these moments explain why they’d like to do more but are constrained from doing so.

So they criticize the Supreme Court’s recent ruling nullifying some blue-state gun laws and tout the new gun reforms, which represent real progress, though not nearly enough. But few national Democrats, if any, are making a comprehensive case that right-wing radicalization threatens a nightmarish future, on many fronts at once.

...

Meanwhile, President Biden keeps talking about the Republicans of good will whose support he seeks. Democratic leaders in Congress focus on discrete pieces of legislation they hope to pass but only occasionally do.

One just doesn’t get the sense that their hair is on fire, which is how rank-and-file Democrats feel.

We think this is the context for the new, much-discussed move by California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D). Over the weekend, he aired an ad on Fox News aimed ostensibly at Floridians living under Gov. Ron DeSantis, the second most important Republican in the country after Donald Trump <snip video clip>

...

“It’s Independence Day, so let’s talk about what’s going on in America,” Newsom says in the ad. “Freedom is under attack” in places like Florida, he says, listing a number of issues — abortion, free speech, voting rights — on which Republicans are trying to “take your freedom.”

The message here is that all these right-wing efforts add up to profoundly threaten the way of life that much of Blue America takes for granted. Why don’t we hear this big-picture case more often?

Yes, it’s a bid for attention. Newsom, an ambitious politician who’s likely eyeing a White House run, knows a personal spat between two governors is irresistible to political reporters.

But he’s speaking into a real vacuum. Democratic voters crave signs that party leaders understand their frustration is bordering on panic: As they see it, the side making serious ideological gains is the opposition, whose chances of winning Congress don’t seem diminished by revelations about Trump’s GOP-enabled effort to destroy our political order, court decisions gutting long-settled rights, or mass-shooting nightmares that seem horrifyingly inevitable.

[Carpet_pissr]

My fear about Newsom is he would be seen as too much of a ‘D establishment/royalty’ pick.

I think we need someone a little more outside the normal D ‘box’ at this point.

Definitely maybe AOC, the young, female version of Bernie to some degree.

[El Guapo]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

[noxiousdog]

It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.

And it won't hurt with Hispanics either.

Edit: yikes. I forgot the other young popular democratic party president: Obama.

[El Guapo]

My fear about Newsom is he would be seen as too much of a ‘D establishment/royalty’ pick.

I think we need someone a little more outside the normal D ‘box’ at this point.

Definitely maybe AOC, the young, female version of Bernie to some degree.

I don't love Newsom (don't know a ton about him to be honest), but the WaPo piece is right that there's a real void in leadership which creates an opportunity for some Democrat to make the big picture case that the house is on fire and we need to do something about it *right now*.

I will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.

[malchior]

I will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.

To be honest I'd be fine with Biden outright coopting it. The point is that the leadership in the party has to start saying this to the voters! And that Biden is still trying to win over the radical authoritarians? It's beyond ponderous and a good part of the reason everyone is throwing in the towel on him already. If Biden is dragged into putting aside fantasies about responsible Republicans (there are dozens of them!) it'll be a good outcome.

[El Guapo]

It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.

Well, it's both. You want to motivate young people to vote while also not losing too many old / centrist / swing / etc. voters in the process. Bearing in mind that under our crazy system it also matters a lot *where* particular voters are, as the electoral college disproportionately empowers old white voters.

I don't think AOC is the worst choice exactly, I just very much doubt that she's the best.

[El Guapo]

I will say I've been approaching this question mostly in terms of the best chance of winning in 2024. That said, I would be willing to trade some % of victory chance if I got the chance of having someone in place who seems to better understand the crisis that we're in.

To be honest I'd be fine with Biden outright coopting it. The point is that the party has to start saying this to the voters! And that Biden is still trying to win over the radical authoritarians? It's beyond ponderous and a good part of the reason everyone is throwing in the towel on him already.

Indeed. Also someone needs to start saying this shit out loud because if Republicans do put into place one of their election stealing schemes in 2024, we're probably going to need mass protests to stop it, and that's only going to be feasible if people and media outlets are prepared for it.

I am glad that Newsom is saying this stuff for that reason. Honestly I would like him to put some pressure on Biden's people - basically start making this case or I'll take a serious look at a primary run.

[malchior]

It's not about Republicans. It's about motivating young people to vote. That's why a black man won so easily.

And it won't hurt with Hispanics either.

Edit: yikes. I forgot the other young popular democratic party president: Obama.

Yup. There is also mounting evidence that younger voters are awakening politically. They have a huge cohort from 20 - 40 right now. Gen X is more conservative now than not but they are dwarfed by the millenials. If the young step up and vote, and the system isn't broken...we'll see quite a bit of change. Especially on environmental and human rights issues.

[Carpet_pissr]

Great points about Newsom prompting Joe and Co. to fucking MOVE or something. Ring a bell and let us know you're still alive, man.

And I think it will take that (and more internal AND external pressure from others in the party), in addition to running some new blood. Both things IMO need to happen, and quickly.

We saw the "street turnout" for Roe's demise. It was decent, but not massive by any means (I also highly suspect that the leak was strategic to do exactly what it did...soften the eventual actual blow). I don't think we will see near that kind of response for something as now belittled and diminished as election laws. People are just too jaded and cynical. When one side of the country is saying "elections are rigged because my very popular guy didn't win - did you see the turnout at his rallies??" and the other side sees THAT side change the laws to help ACTUALLY rig elections...I can totally see why people are just throwing up their hands.

IMO it's going to take something in your face like a 20% tax hike, or repeal of the Civil Rights Act, or the abolishment of public schools (wish list item for the right) etc.

[malchior]

Great points about Newsom prompting Joe and Co. to fucking MOVE or something. Ring a bell and let us know you're still alive, man.

And I think it will take that (and more internal AND external pressure from others in the party), in addition to running some new blood. Both things IMO need to happen, and quickly.

We saw the "street turnout" for Roe's demise. It was decent, but not massive by any means. I don't think we will see near that kind of response for something as now belittled and diminished as election laws. People are just too jaded and cynical. When one side of the country is saying "elections are rigged because my very popular guy didn't win - did you see the turnout at his rallies??" and the other side sees THAT side change the laws to help ACTUALLY rig elections...I can totally see why people are just throwing up their hands.

FWIW the street turnout was actually fairly large and widespread despite the fact that it came out on a Friday midday. And the next weekend was ... last weekend ... a major holiday.

On top the protests that did occur were largely under covered. Why perhaps? They were mostly peaceful and the coverage focused heavily (nearly exclusively) on problem spots where there were police responses. The 4th estate thread exists for exactly this reason. The lack of coverage left people with the impression that folks didn't respond.

[ImLawBoy]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

[YellowKing]

People are largely dismissive of things that aren't impacting them RIGHT NOW. That's why it's hard to get excited about voter suppression that may happen *next* election. And you can forget climate change - 10 years, 25 years, 50 years down the road? Don't care.

We'll get mad about voter suppression *after* the GOP steals an election and then locks everything down to the point we can't do anything about it. Just as we'll get motivated to do something about climate change after our house is under water.

[LawBeefaroni]

People are largely dismissive of things that aren't impacting them RIGHT NOW. That's why it's hard to get excited about voter suppression that may happen *next* election. And you can forget climate change - 10 years, 25 years, 50 years down the road? Don't care.

We'll get mad about voter suppression *after* the GOP steals an election and then locks everything down to the point we can't do anything about it. Just as we'll get motivated to do something about climate change after our house is under water.

People don't want to believe in the worst case scenario. They want to believe it's not a bad as people are saying. Once it happens they'll have no choice but to believe. And it will be too late.

[Kraken]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.

[El Guapo]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.

How many moderates are going to see her on the campaign trail? The vast majority of people would just see campaign sound-bites filtered through their channel of choice. So....she's not exactly going to reach many Fox viewers.

[Drazzil]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.

I think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.

Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.

[LawBeefaroni]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.

I think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.

Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.

Biden won. That's what it was all about. Not about electing an exciting, energetic candidate. Do not lose, that was it.

Is he a disappointment to some? Sure. Not sure what they were expecting, though. Would AOC energize some voters? Absolutely, but she's not going to win.

[Drazzil]

AOC.

As much as I disagree with her, she's young energetic, extremely smart, and charismatic.

That's the recipe for democratic success. The two most popular D presidents were John Kennedy and Bill Clinton.

I love AOC, but running her would be political insanity. The GOP machine has spent much of the past 5+ years demonizing the influence of AOC and "the Squad" - basically telling rural America to fear their influence and them taking over the Democratic Party. It's all nonsense, of course, but voters outside of the Democratic Party are going to hear everything she says through a lens of her being some crazy radical.

Absolutely. Running AOC would be conceding the election. Even assuming that she was the magical key that would get young progressives to actually vote en masse, she would alienate so many of the older voters - including (and especially) the moderates who were raised on the bogeyman of socialism - that the Rs could run a sack of potatoes (or even dumb it down a bit and re-run Trump) and win.

I wonder if many moderates might open their eyes if they hear her speak to their concerns directly on the campaign trail, rather than in Fox News-selected sound bites. All they have now is a scary caricature.

I think running a candiate in fear of "turning off" a certain subset of voters is how we got sleepy do nothing Biden. And if you think you're going to be able to turn out the coalition you screwed this election cycle by offering them less then you offered them last time, think again.

Also, a large subset of that centrist voter were chasing won't vote for us regardless.

Biden won. That's what it was all about. Not about electing an exciting, energetic candidate. Do not lose, that was it.

Is he a disappointment to some? Sure. Not sure what they were expecting, though. Would AOC energize some voters? Absolutely, but she's not going to win.

Betcha five bucks neither will Biden. And if we're all doomed anyway, I'd rather die with my boots on representing the best of what we could be, rather then the worst... I see that my opinion is not shared though.

[Grifman]

I would love to think that blue states would withhold tax dollars

Exactly how would that work? You do know that that states don't have actually have this money, most of those tax dollars are from individual paycheck withholdings. Are you going to go around asking individuals to not have taxes withheld from their paychecks? Ask businesses/corporations to not forward the money on to the federal government, risking heavy fines?

[naednek]

The problem with Newsom is going to be Optics.

Shutting down the state while going out to eat a fancy restaurant in Napa isn't a good look
Vacationing in Montana after banning state travel due to their stance on LGBTQ issues isn't a good look
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article2 ... eJ9ZVQSfH4


This and more will be constant ammunition for the right, and they are not wrong. Newsome does a lot of things right, but things like this will haunt him.

[Carpet_pissr]

The problem with Newsom is going to be Optics.

Shutting down the state while going out to eat a fancy restaurant in Napa isn't a good look
Vacationing in Montana after banning state travel due to their stance on LGBTQ issues isn't a good look
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article2 ... eJ9ZVQSfH4


This and more will be constant ammunition for the right, and they are not wrong. Newsome does a lot of things right, but things like this will haunt him.

Sounds like Bizarro Chris Christie

[YellowKing]

I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.

He was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.

[Carpet_pissr]

I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.

He was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.

Oh noes. Did not know that (and I was already not a Newsom superfan, even from afar). Definitely out.

I'm actually quite bummed right now on realizing that I even know who Kimberly Freaking Guilfoyle is.

[hepcat]

EVERYONE knows who she is after her shrieking presentation at a national convention a few years back. There are moose (meese?) in Saskatchewan who are painfully aware of who she is after that god awful cacophony of shrillness.

[Isgrimnur]

to a completely empty Andrew W. Mellon Auditorium.

[hepcat]

[Carpet_pissr]

[Holman]

I think Newsom may be a governor best admired from afar. I have some friends in California who, despite leaning decisively to the left, can't stand the guy.

He was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle for 5 years, FFS. Pardon if I question his judgement. And undoubtedly she will turn up with loads of dirt if he runs.

On the other hand, Newsom's dunking on Don Jr. will be EPIC.