I think Joe Biden should be impeached. Who's with me?

[Drazzil]

I just had a dumb idea.

What if each one of us pledged to commit two acts of Defiance against the forces of fascism rising in our country? Then agreed to convince two other people to do the same?

We could repeat the process as many times as we wanted, or just do two and convince two and leave things be. The acts wouldn't necessarily need to be violent, just a reaffirmation that we as individuals have the power to organize and strike back at a time when we all feel so powerless.

Say for example: Organizing or attending a protest and then donating a sum to a "camping group" This would accomplish three ends:

1. We do small things to feel better about shining a light into the darkness.
2. Organize and post things about what we personally are doing and showing others that we can in fact push back.
3. We convince two others to do the same.

Now here's the good part. The internet community loves oneupsmanship. Each person may be doing bigger and better things then the last... Who knows where that ends?

Forget it. I'm not going to get banned for skirting the CoC over arguing something like this. Its a dead letter. No one on this forum is going to be convinced, and I'm not sure I'd want them to.

[Holman]

What kinds of "acts of defiance" do you mean? Attending a protest is good, but it's merely symbolic if it doesn't lead to something concrete.

There are thousands upon thousands of people organizing efforts to get out the vote on every level, from local municipal elections to state-level offices to federal elections. Most folks involved in one of those levels are also involved in others. They're doing it everywhere.

Find those people. They're the ones actually doing the work of saving democracy.

[hepcat]

. Each person may be doing bigger and better things then the last... Who knows where that ends?

Considering your rhetoric? Murder.

[Drazzil]

What kinds of "acts of defiance" do you mean? Attending a protest is good, but it's merely symbolic if it doesn't lead to something concrete.

There are thousands upon thousands of people organizing efforts to get out the vote on every level, from local municipal elections to state-level offices to federal elections. Most folks involved in one of those levels are also involved in others. They're doing it everywhere.

Find those people. They're the ones actually doing the work of saving democracy.

*sigh*

Convincing people to turn out for the legal stuff might drive them to do more... impactful... things. Once they get radicalized I mean. Nothing like showing up for a protest and getting the shit kicked out of you by cops to make you want to do... more. The kind of stuff you only post on telegram, behind a good VPN, on the onion, after removing anything incriminating.

[Drazzil]

. Each person may be doing bigger and better things then the last... Who knows where that ends?

Considering your rhetoric? Murder.

I condemn acts of violence and terrorism wholeheartedly! Cause, its coming regardless. No need to egg it on.

[Sudy]

I thought we already had a thread for domestic extremism....

[Drazzil]

So. I am once again revisiting the whole "get outta dodge" idea. My current idea of, "driving me and the cats to the border with as much cash as I can as soon as the shooting starts" Lots of other, richer, younger, better qualified people are going to be running to the Canadian border as soon as things get bad, It'll be too late. Also in that situation I don't think Canada would take refugees cats, and I won't leave em. We live or die together.

Nother idea would be to try and see if I qualified under "refugee under imminent danger" status... But I think I'd be laughed out of the office, as despite the fact that I'm a disabled biracial athiest with "ideas" and a very inconvenient last name. I'm sure I'm somewhere on the fascist agenda bingo card, but by the time it gets to my turn Canada would be overrun with higher priority cases then me. Oh and reference the "cats" thing above.

Nother idea would be to try to convince the Canadian government that to defend itself from the inevitable American breakdown and annexation attempt that they would need right thinking Americans who wouldn't be afraid to serve in whatever capacity they needed us to in exchange for a visa... Only by the time America come's down Canada, and pretty much the whole world will be in the same pot as everyone in the United States. They won't have enough to take care of their own citizens, let alone the pariahdog citizens of the country that managed to bring down the whole world...

So fucked, fucked, and really fucked. I'm out of ideas. Other then to hunker down and die of medical issues or hunger or thirst and let the cats eat me till they wind up mummified corpses.

Anyone have a better idea? And no "organize and vote" talk here. We're assuming that we've got christofascists goosestepping down Burnside. Worst case scenerios and possible ideas to escape them only.

Lets call this a fun fictional exercise for entertainment.

[Kraken]

To answer the topic title of the moment: Wife and I are actively plotting the first and biggest piece of our retirement, which is where we're going to live and how we're going to get there. Tonight we floated Canada as a possibility. I know they aren't thrilled with admitting non-productive Americans, but Wife has Canadian ancestry that might tip the scale.

OTOH, we're unlikely to live more than another 10-ish years and blue bastions like MA can probably stave off Gilead for that long, so we're likely to be safely dead before Proud Boys patrol our neighborhood.

So I''ll float "die in an timely manner, or, if you can't, move to Canada."

[Sudy]

I believe it's easy to immigrate pets as long as they have their shots etc. but there may be a limit.

However I don't think there are easy routes into the country other than wealth, skills, or getting married to a Canadian (or being family of such a union). There may be a few other methods, but one does not simply waltz into Canada.

[Alefroth]

There's an existing exit strategy thread in EBG.

viewtopic.php?p=2760574#p2760574

[Drazzil]

I believe it's easy to immigrate pets as long as they have their shots etc. but there may be a limit.

However I don't think there are easy routes into the country other than wealth, skills, or getting married to a Canadian (or being family of such a union). There may be a few other methods, but one does not simply waltz into Canada.

one does not simply walk into...

[dbt1949]

I can't see any place any better than the good olde USA. Other countries may seem better from where we sit now but once you get there and find some of your freedoms gone you may regret it. Plus other countries have their right wing nuts too. It's just the times.
In Canada you lose most of your 2nd amendment rights, be that good or bad for you.
You also lose the right to be warm all year round.

[Kraken]

one does not simply waltz into Canada.

I am willing to boogie, or if pressed, to twerk.

I've been to Ontario a lot of times and could be happy in Toronto. I cheerfully cede my right to carry a gun I neither have nor want.

[Ænima]

I can't see any place any better than the good olde USA. Other countries may seem better from where we sit now but once you get there and find some of your freedoms gone you may regret it. Plus other countries have their right wing nuts too. It's just the times.
In Canada you lose most of your 2nd amendment rights, be that good or bad for you.
You also lose the right to be warm all year round.

I moved to another country when Trump was elected. This statement has no truth to it unless you want to carry guns with you everywhere. I’ve lost no other freedoms except smoking weed, and that was a recent enough change in my liberal home state that I didn’t really notice.

[dbt1949]

My statement wasn't about the 2nd amendment but how all countries have laws that an emigrant might not like and you just named one that some people may not like.

[Madmarcus]

Not really an exit strategy but right now I'm fairly big on protective coloration. Keep my politics to myself (except very rarely on the internet) and think about ways I can help the next generation (my kids but also basically the people I taught over the past 20+ years). Realistically I'm a cis, white, male with enough money to be comfortable and enough ties to the local community that my lack of religion and liberal leanings can be passed off as quirks.

So I''ll float "die in an timely manner, or, if you can't, move to Canada."

That's not a bad description either. We're still tossing around getting out of the US. DBT is right that other countries have their own problems, often including their own right leaning authoritarian groups, and issues but there is some appeal to being out of a place that is getting worse.

[Unagi]

@drazzil

Tell me you promote the escalation of violence without telling me you promote the escalation of violence.

You’re trying to get people to ease into extreme violence.

Starting with the members of OO.

Wtf man

[Roman]

Yup - what he said.

Spend time on yourself and getting better. Stop just stop.

[hepcat]

Everytime Drazzil goes another Doom and Gloom tour, just remember one thing: He voted for Trump.

[Drazzil]

@drazzil

Tell me you promote the escalation of violence without telling me you promote the escalation of violence.

You’re trying to get people to ease into extreme violence.

Starting with the members of OO.

Wtf man

I never said I wanted people here to be violent. I know people here are older and have families. I argued the necessity of. I never encouraged violence, I just argued the necessity of it to maintain some sort of balance. There is a difference.

[dbt1949]

If I was going to leave this country I would pick Switzerland. They do have some laws I don't care for but it is beautiful with good weather.

[hepcat]

I argued the necessity of. I never encouraged violence, I just argued the necessity of it to maintain some sort of balance. There is a difference.

Yes, just like there’s a difference between shooting someone and firing a gun at someone.

[Zarathud]

If the USA falls into chaos, the world isn’t safe anymore and the world economy is fucked. You’re not outrunning that.

Besides, you’ll still pay US taxes unless you surrender your citizenship status and pay an exit capital gains tax.

[Unagi]

@drazzil

Tell me you promote the escalation of violence without telling me you promote the escalation of violence.

You’re trying to get people to ease into extreme violence.

Starting with the members of OO.

Wtf man

I never said I wanted people here to be violent. I know people here are older and have families. I argued the necessity of. I never encouraged violence, I just argued the necessity of it to maintain some sort of balance. There is a difference.

• pledged to commit two acts of Defiance against the forces of fascism rising in our country

• agreed to convince two other people to do the same

• The acts wouldn't necessarily need to be violent

• Now here's the good part. The internet community loves oneupsmanship. Each person may be doing bigger and better things then the last... Who knows where that ends?

Please make this the last time we see this crap on this forum.

[Rumpy]

No offense, Draz, but your proposal sounds exactly like the kind of thing coming out of the trucker convoys and their protests. I don't know if you followed what was going on in February in Canada, but we had a massive protest that had camped out in the downtown core of Ottawa for over a month, one which was full of hateful rhetoric, and tried to destabilize the government, and it took police from external areas and a government imposed emergency act to break it up. This convoy was funded in part by foreign funds. It was ugly and it's not something we want to see happen again. Be careful, very careful of what you wish for. Even if you have good intent, you can be sure there are others who would try to hijack it for their own nefarious purposes.

[Madmarcus]

Besides, you’ll still pay US taxes unless you surrender your citizenship status and pay an exit capital gains tax.

Very true. Any exit plan of mine is purely a way to spend my time in a more pleasant society with a small thought of providing my children with an option if the US becomes too opposed to their lives. I know I will still be paying taxes and thus fundamentally supporting the US.

[dbt1949]

If you live in a foreign country and you don't pay your taxes (especially if it's retirement) what's going to happen?

[waitingtoconnect]

If the USA falls into chaos, the world isn’t safe anymore and the world economy is fucked. You’re not outrunning that.

Besides, you’ll still pay US taxes unless you surrender your citizenship status and pay an exit capital gains tax.

Exactly. What happens in America is exported worldwide. Already abortion rights campaigners in other nations are more aggressively protesting. And a Republican fascist state is bound to force nations like the UK, Australia, Canada and NZ to acquiesce to fascism or fascism will quickly take hold.

Then all of our kids will be laughing at the Friends reboot episode where Ross reports Rachel to the thought police for thinking about having an abortion.

[Zarathud]

If you live in a foreign country and you don't pay your taxes (especially if it's retirement) what's going to happen?

Chances are your money is still in the US. Or you may put money into a bank operating in the US. Even Swiss banking secrecy fell to US pressures.

Ask Wesley Snipes, Willie Nelson, Richard Hatch, or Darryl Strawberry (among others) how not paying taxes worked out for them.

[Drazzil]

No offense, Draz, but your proposal sounds exactly like the kind of thing coming out of the trucker convoys and their protests. I don't know if you followed what was going on in February in Canada, but we had a massive protest that had camped out in the downtown core of Ottawa for over a month, one which was full of hateful rhetoric, and tried to destabilize the government, and it took police from external areas and a government imposed emergency act to break it up. This convoy was funded in part by foreign funds. It was ugly and it's not something we want to see happen again. Be careful, very careful of what you wish for. Even if you have good intent, you can be sure there are others who would try to hijack it for their own nefarious purposes.

*sighs* I do not spend any time on social media. I don't read memes, I don't participate in alt right chat. I however am still convinced that the average American would be better off without America.

[Unagi]

I imagine that’s exactly the kind of sentiment behind todays 4th of July parade shooting.

I believe Bobby Crimo would like to register this with you under an acts of Defiance. Of course, the fun part for you Drazzil is that someone will need to do something even bigger.

[Drazzil]

I imagine that’s exactly the kind of sentiment behind todays 4th of July parade shooting.

I believe Bobby Crimo would like to register with you at 1 of his 2 acts of Defiance.

*shrug* Wrong target. Doesn't count.

[Unagi]

I imagine that’s exactly the kind of sentiment behind todays 4th of July parade shooting.

I believe Bobby Crimo would like to register with you at 1 of his 2 acts of Defiance.

*shrug* Wrong target. Doesn't count.

oh oopssies on you. You failed to provide the approved list of ‘targets’.

[Blackhawk]

So, what? He'd have received your approval if he'd murdered different people?

[Drazzil]

I imagine that’s exactly the kind of sentiment behind todays 4th of July parade shooting.

I believe Bobby Crimo would like to register with you at 1 of his 2 acts of Defiance.

*shrug* Wrong target. Doesn't count.

oh oopssies on you. You failed to provide the approved list of ‘targets’.

Ouch. I mean deserved... But ouch.

[Rumpy]

No offense, Draz, but your proposal sounds exactly like the kind of thing coming out of the trucker convoys and their protests. I don't know if you followed what was going on in February in Canada, but we had a massive protest that had camped out in the downtown core of Ottawa for over a month, one which was full of hateful rhetoric, and tried to destabilize the government, and it took police from external areas and a government imposed emergency act to break it up. This convoy was funded in part by foreign funds. It was ugly and it's not something we want to see happen again. Be careful, very careful of what you wish for. Even if you have good intent, you can be sure there are others who would try to hijack it for their own nefarious purposes.

*sighs* I do not spend any time on social media. I don't read memes, I don't participate in alt right chat. I however am still convinced that the average American would be better off without America.

That's fine. Just wanted you to be aware of what you were proposing looked like from a country that's actually experienced it.

[Drazzil]

I know I know, Rick Scott had this idea first, but it makes perfect sense. Joe Biden should resign, immediately. He obviously isin't up to running the country, does not want the job, and is paralyzed like a REALLY old deer in the headlights of a sixteen wheeler named THE GOP.

Joe Biden resigning would energize the base, allow someone blacker, younger and FEMALE to come out swinging against the GOP. She is a prosecutor. She could make the case as to why a good third of the GOP and five members of the supreme court would have to go to prison. Its perfect!

[Holman]

She is a prosecutor. She could make the case as to why a good third of the GOP and five members of the supreme court would have to go to prison. Its perfect!

Please tell us how anyone could persuasively make that case. Show your work.

[hepcat]

Phase 1: Biden resigns
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

[Sudy]

Trying to find this fucking thread would be impossible for someone with dementia.