Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:42 pm**

I 100% agree he should be ignored, even though I recognize that's not realistic. We're all internet savvy folks, we know trolls only thrive on reactions and attention. The minute you take that away, they lose their power.

If there's anything I can give Trump credit for, it's that he absolutely embodies the phrase "there's no such thing as bad publicity." His entire "empire" is built on it.

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:45 pm**

raydude wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:59 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2023 9:45 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:11 pm Yes, yes we did.

Kurth wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:55 pm Thought experiment: If you were given two options, which would you choose?

(1) Biden v. Trump with a 75% chance Biden wins; or
(2) Nikki Haley as the next POTUS
And I still go with the one that guarantees 0% Trump.
If you move that to 50% Biden wins (which is probably more accurate), I’ll agree.

Coin flip that Trump wins vs Haley as POTUS? I don’t even have to think about that.
I feel like a Haley win would just be like the frog in the boiling pot - she doesn't seem so bad, which will make the next election easier for someone even worse. Whereas a Trump win would bring more people to the realization that "the leopard ate my face!? But I voted for it!" So I'd still go with 1, with the knowledge that a Trump win would get more people to realize how bad the GOP really is. I also like to think even the worst of the GOP would not agree to a Trump dictatorship and that the billionaires would realize an unfettered Trump is bad for business.

What good is finally realizing how bad he is when he will effectively end everything if elected? It's not like there will be a chance to vote him out. He has already outlined his plans to consolidate power and control succession. He learned from past mistakes and I wouldn't count on the same amateur-hour bumbling now that it's no longer just idiot sycophants working behind the scenes.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 11:38 am**

My primary concerns with the Trump presidency were mostly that Trump would promote all the GOP pet desires (more guns, demonize immigrants/minorities/poor/LGBT+, criminalize abortion) and secondarily handing tax money out to the rich and grifting America in exchange.

Since that first presidency, the GOP has fully embraced such horrible things, at this point, I see no value in allowing one of their lieutenants (Haley) in the front door. When people talk about the big problem with a "Trump Administration v2.0" being filled with more competent people - I look at the President Haley option as being exactly that.

Trump's first election created a massive unmoving block of voters, it galvanized the GOP message of hate and promoted all of the above-mentioned GOP pet desires...

So the questions that haunt me are these:
Is Trumpism more in decline, or less in decline, than that galvanized GOP movement on their pet desires?
Is a Haley presidency allowing the GOP to hand the baton to a fresh and stronger runner that will take the country exactly where we imagine a Trump dictatorship will take us?
Are there more people who will fight back against a possible Trump dictatorship than there are people who will fight for gun restrictions and LGBT+ rights?

I just don't want to be so focused on the boogeyman that I hand the house over to a comforting devil.

The big argument to avoid Trump 2.0 is the idea being it would be the end of the whole game. No more (fair) elections, etc... I'm not entirely convinced a Haley GOP wouldn't unravel the same things we are talking about with Trump in that respect. At least Trump already has the 'insurrectionist' spotlight on him.

Both options are horrible.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:36 pm**

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:05 pm A world where Haley is the GOP nominee is (assuming Trump is not dead) one where Haley has openly promised to pardon Trump and his allies or where Trump rails against her and keeps the MAGA vote home.

Neither scenario is well captured by "Haley vs Biden" hypothetical polls.

And now Haley has come out and said that she will pardon Trump for the good of the country.

That's an incredibly boneheaded move before any trials have concluded. It's a painfully obvious admission that he is above the law.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:53 pm**

Unagi wrote:The big argument to avoid Trump 2.0 is the idea being it would be the end of the whole game. No more (fair) elections, etc... I'm not entirely convinced a Haley GOP wouldn't unravel the same things we are talking about with Trump in that respect. At least Trump already has the 'insurrectionist' spotlight on him.

It's entirely possible that a Haley presidency would accomplish the same goals. However, I look at her as an unknown. I'll take the possibility of her not destroying democracy over the absolute certainty that Trump will.

Also, Trump's mental illness scares me. The guy is absolutely deranged. Haley supports bad policies, but she's not mentally ill. And as such, she does have certain guardrails that Trump doesn't. For instance, she obviously has an awareness of polls and public opinion about her, and like any "normal" politician is keen to change direction if public sentiment is against her. Trump has none of that. He gives zero fucks about public opinion. If Trump had received the backlash Haley did from the Civil War question, he'd have doubled down on those statements, not backed away.

Haley was a governor and ambassador - she at least has some political experience. Trump is a con-artist and a reality show star.

I totally agree both options are horrible. But they're not equally horrible.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:55 pm**

To be clear (because I agree with most of your comments), I think Trump may be a better person to have up for election in 2024. Not that I wouldn't rather Haley be president than Trump.

And, I have no counter-argument against the unknown that is Haley - as just the parts she has made known are very significant to my family.

That being said - there is no worse person for President than Trump.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:46 pm**

Yeah I agree - I think Biden has even or maybe even slightly better than even odds against Trump. I think he gets absolutely destroyed by Haley. And I'm also very aware of the nightmare scenario of Trump picking Haley as VP, even though I'm not sure his ego would allow it.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:25 pm**

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:36 pm
Holman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 9:05 pm A world where Haley is the GOP nominee is (assuming Trump is not dead) one where Haley has openly promised to pardon Trump and his allies or where Trump rails against her and keeps the MAGA vote home.

Neither scenario is well captured by "Haley vs Biden" hypothetical polls.
And now Haley has come out and said that she will pardon Trump for the good of the country.

That's an incredibly boneheaded move before any trials have concluded. It's a painfully obvious admission that he is above the law.

She needs MAGA voters if she's to have any prayer of winning, so she's got to walk a weird line. "I'm running against him but I'm all for him."

YellowKing wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:46 pm Yeah I agree - I think Biden has even or maybe even slightly better than even odds against Trump. I think he gets absolutely destroyed by Haley. And I'm also very aware of the nightmare scenario of Trump picking Haley as VP, even though I'm not sure his ego would allow it.

I don't think there's any danger of that. Trump will find another milquetoast sycophant like Pence. Or maybe Don Jr.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:31 pm**

Getting the call informing you Trump wants you as his VP must be like finding out you have syphilis on your birthday.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:42 am**

Holman wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 4:36 pm And now Haley has come out and said that she will pardon Trump for the good of the country.

That's an incredibly boneheaded move before any trials have concluded. It's a painfully obvious admission that he is above the law.

This also strongly suggests there is something to pardon him for. i.e. he committed wrongdoing. Does that affect anyone's opinion of the situation? Probably not. Still, this is the sort of logical stumble that is constantly happening with no consequences. It's maddening.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:09 pm**

Also, you'd think they'd know they can't pardon him for state charges.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:31 pm**

Trump was constrained by men like Christie and Pence and Bolton who believe in the constituion. His new acolytes don’t believe in it at all.

I’m sure they’d be a federal “intervention” in New York and Georgia against the “rampant and out of control crime wave” perpetrated by the “communists” running those states if pardoning was not possible.

Those who spoke against him or pleaded out will pay dearly. The Biden family will definitely need to run. And like in other nations unfriendly media will be taken over, shut down on national security grounds or audited out of existence by the new weaponised IRS.

And I’m sure men like Giuliani will be left in the dust despite their gross loyalty in the hope trump will make them be rich again.

Posted: **Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:03 pm**

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:36 pm Yeah, someone that described the Confederate Flag as a symbol of "service, sacrifice and heritage" is absolutely the right person to be President.

I am firmly in the camp that believes the worst Democrat is better than the "best" GOP candidate at this point; the entire party is a cancer to American democracy.

Dear god this.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:26 am**

gbasden wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:03 pm
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:36 pm Yeah, someone that described the Confederate Flag as a symbol of "service, sacrifice and heritage" is absolutely the right person to be President.

I am firmly in the camp that believes the worst Democrat is better than the "best" GOP candidate at this point; the entire party is a cancer to American democracy.
Dear god this.

+1

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:51 pm**

I dont even know the real meaning of MAGA. i dont wanna search and the internet think Im a supporter. I thought it was MoreAssholesGonnaAsshole but dont think thats it now..but not sure.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:57 pm**

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:51 pm I dont even know the real meaning of MAGA. i dont wanna search and the internet think Im a supporter. I thought it was MoreAssholesGonnaAsshole but dont think thats it now..but not sure.

You won't find an answer, because it's whatever Trump wants it to mean at any given moment. There is no policy behind it, that's why the GOP hasn't released a national party agenda for the past 5 years.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:18 pm**

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:42 pm**

Reading between the lines, 'Making America Great Again" really means making America like it was in the 50s when women and black folk knew their place. When we didn't talk about gay people, men settled arguments with their fists, and we were free to beat our kids.

Posted: **Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:19 pm**

Mr trump why would you like to be president…

Note the other options spite, malice, boredom, profit…

Posted: **Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:51 am**

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 9:34 am**

More MAGA:

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:31 am**

I'm with Smoove in terms of rejecting a Haley presidency as well for a plethora of reasons. I'm looking at the Supreme Court and the lower courts as well for justification.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:50 pm The only way the GOP deradicalizes is by a sound defeat of Trump and ALL his MAGA wannabes. That includes DeSantis and Haley.

The choice is like deciding to have late-stage cancer or early stage cancer without treatment. In both situations, you’re going to die of cancer. But a different time horizon.

This. I'm not enthusiastic about Biden for any number of reasons, but when it comes to holding on to our constitutional republic, things not getting shittier for minorities, the Supreme Court not getting worse, and the environment, I will donate, post, drive people to the polls, etc.. I will look forward to the time when Trump not only can't or won't run again, but stops empowering the MAGA movement. But this is starting to feel Sisyphus-like, with a bigger boulder and a steeper hill each year.

It absolutely floors me that in an age with a wealth of information, learning techniques, and predictive models that this is where we are in terms of choosing functioning governance that's not detrimental to the citizens in the long-term.

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:14 pm**

Dogstar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:31 am I'm with Smoove in terms of rejecting a Haley presidency as well for a plethora of reasons. I'm looking at the Supreme Court and the lower courts as well for justification.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:50 pm The only way the GOP deradicalizes is by a sound defeat of Trump and ALL his MAGA wannabes. That includes DeSantis and Haley.

The choice is like deciding to have late-stage cancer or early stage cancer without treatment. In both situations, you’re going to die of cancer. But a different time horizon.
This. I'm not enthusiastic about Biden for any number of reasons, but when it comes to holding on to our constitutional republic, things not getting shittier for minorities, the Supreme Court not getting worse, and the environment, I will donate, post, drive people to the polls, etc.. I will look forward to the time when Trump not only can't or won't run again, but stops empowering the MAGA movement. But this is starting to feel Sisyphus-like, with a bigger boulder and a steeper hill each year.

It absolutely floors me that in an age with a wealth of information, learning techniques, and predictive models that this is where we are in terms of choosing functioning governance that's not detrimental to the citizens in the long-term.

I normally don't post in here, just come to read. The highlighted part above, in my opinion (and partially in my own actions), is because of the proclivity of people to want to exist in an echo chamber. The "wealth of information" is a double-edged sword.
If you want to find info about how Jan. 6 was an attack on our country, our democracy, and our way of life, it's out there by the metric ton.
If you want to find info about how Jan. 6 was a peaceful protest ambushed and sabotaged by the FBI, NSA, and a host of other government alphabet groups, it's out there by the metric ton.

People will search for what they believe, and will ignore (or worse) any proof to the contrary, no matter how damning. There are very few people out there, willing and open-minded enough, searching for contrary points of view to get an alternate perspective.

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:14 pm**

Dogstar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:31 am I'm with Smoove in terms of rejecting a Haley presidency as well for a plethora of reasons. I'm looking at the Supreme Court and the lower courts as well for justification.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2023 8:50 pm The only way the GOP deradicalizes is by a sound defeat of Trump and ALL his MAGA wannabes. That includes DeSantis and Haley.

The choice is like deciding to have late-stage cancer or early stage cancer without treatment. In both situations, you’re going to die of cancer. But a different time horizon.
This. I'm not enthusiastic about Biden for any number of reasons, but when it comes to holding on to our constitutional republic, things not getting shittier for minorities, the Supreme Court not getting worse, and the environment, I will donate, post, drive people to the polls, etc.. I will look forward to the time when Trump not only can't or won't run again, but stops empowering the MAGA movement. But this is starting to feel Sisyphus-like, with a bigger boulder and a steeper hill each year.

It absolutely floors me that in an age with a wealth of information, learning techniques, and predictive models that this is where we are in terms of choosing functioning governance that's not detrimental to the citizens in the long-term.

+1

Posted: **Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:31 pm**

Dogstar wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 10:31 am It absolutely floors me that in an age with a wealth of information, learning techniques, and predictive models that this is where we are in terms of choosing functioning governance that's not detrimental to the citizens in the long-term.

And that the implied goal of the "think tanks" (funded by???) moving the needle is to hamstring the wealth of information, learning techniques, and predictive models...

Hyena wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:14 pm People will search for what they believe, and will ignore (or worse) any proof to the contrary, no matter how damning. There are very few people out there, willing and open-minded enough, searching for contrary points of view to get an alternate perspective.

The crappy part for me is that my exposure to the contrary points of view come from unreliable or inflammatory sources. I get a lot of exposure but precious little of it reasonable. Less than a decade ago, I was still inviting it, because discussion felt like it made things go somewhere. Heck, it moved me "to the left" on a number of positions over the last 30 years and didn't even require fundamental changes to my worldview. Though, I know my patience for unproductive "discussion" has dropped to near zero and I don't think it will come back. Thanx old age.

Posted: **Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:26 pm**

Did we cover this already?

I bet GLP-1s are part of that "improved diet."

Posted: **Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:52 pm**

Yep. I noticed in his town hall last night that he looked thinner and figured it was something like Ozempic.

Posted: **Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:15 pm**

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:26 pm Did we cover this already?

I bet GLP-1s are part of that "improved diet."

That is not a medical doctor, right?

Posted: **Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:19 pm**

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 8:15 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:26 pm Did we cover this already?

I bet GLP-1s are part of that "improved diet."
That is not a medical doctor, right?

Osteopathic doctors (DOs) and medical doctors (MDs) are both types of physicians who can practice in all medical specialties. The main difference is that DOs use a "whole person" approach, looking at patients as a mind, body, and spirit, and focus on preventative medicine.

My best friend is a DO.

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:46 am**

And DOs are not real medical doctor, right? It is kinda like Doctor of Chiropractic isn't a real medical doctor?

Posted: **Fri Jan 12, 2024 3:50 am**

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:46 am And DOs are not real medical doctor, right? It is kinda like Doctor of Chiropractic isn't a real medical doctor?

Wrong. Osteopaths practice scientific medicine and enjoy the same status as MDs. They undergo the same education and residency requirements. Some prefer them because they aren't as reductionist as MDs and they're less likely to reach for drugs as a first resort. But practically speaking they're equivalent.

If trump's doctor is a shill, it isn't because he's a DO.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:09 pm**

Rubio just threw in for Trump a day before Trump is now set to landslide Iowa. How courageous.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:15 pm**

The Party over Country lack of integrity wins again.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2024 9:01 pm**

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:15 pm The Party self-interest over Country lack of integrity wins again.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:40 pm**

4 years and beyond...

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 2:52 pm**

As a head in a jar?

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:04 pm**

Look, he gets the 4 years he will win, - and then of course he is owed 4 years (at least) for the stolen election. It's just simple accounting.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 7:13 pm**

We also need to crown him king Donald I because that’s what’s the founders would have wanted.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 8:12 pm**

(Used to be) a nice country you have here. Be a shame if someone were to sick a rabid mob on it and burn the place down.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2024 9:39 pm**

And remember, Joe Biden's age should immediately disqualify him.

Octopus Overlords

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