The Coming War - Trump vs. Desantis

[Carpet_pissr]

More Whitey signalling! Damn, he's good.

[Carpet_pissr]

LOL!

does trump use white power signals?
I'm sorry, but I am not able to browse the internet and therefore do not have information about current events or specific individuals.

Fine, did George Washington use white power signalling?
I am not able to provide information about specific individuals or events. White power signaling is a relatively recent phenomenon and it is highly unlikely that George Washington or any other historical figure would have used it.

[Grifman]

DeSantis’ anti-Trump strategy - go all out anti-vax:



The base hates vaccines.

[Unagi]

How funny (not).
Literally, the only thing that Trump did positively for COVID was to actually put some small value in being vaccinated for it. Not so far as to promote vaccinations, but to put a small value on being vaccinated.


Also, total aside:
what the hell is it with the GOPs trying to gain the love of "particularly young men" in their statistical narrative?

Am I being idiotic to assume this is their appeal to incel?

[Grifman]

WSJ poll finds DeSantis leads Trump among likely primary voters:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ron-desant ... 1670989311

My hope is that if Trump loses, he takes his voters and tells them to stay home. Regardless, if he is beaten in the primaries, it’s going to be delicious.

That said, DeSantis is better AND worse than Trump. He’s definitely not as crazy as Trump which is on the plus side. But he is a smarter version of Trump, which makes him more dangerous in some ways. He’s more calculating, he’s more savvy, and he is willing to use the govt not just to govern, but to punish political opponents.

The next two years are going to be interesting for sure.

[Carpet_pissr]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

[pr0ner]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

Throws in for what? POTUS? He can't be POTUS.

[Smoove_B]

No, no. He's going to magnify the derpisphere. You know, to counter all that liberal bias that was working against TFG between 2016 and 2020.

[Holman]

I'm still convinced that the DeSantis appeal is largely a product of wishful thinking. Most of the GOP's leading lights understand that Trump is toxic and that there's a solid chance he gets indicted. Their great hope is that DeSantis represents "MAGA without (or after) Trump."

But DeSantis is a plodding, petulant, uncharismatic doughy guy. He's Ted Cruz without the baggage of long familiarity. His current strategy of leaning into the culture war indicates weakness, not strength; it's how you appeal to the MAGA base but not to swing-state independents.

DeSantis will never be able to hold a Trump-style rally. He just doesn't have the stage presence for it. Trump is a TV star while DeSantis is the dealer who tries to sell you on undercoating for your car.

He's also peaking early. If and when Trump's fall comes about, DeSantis will instantly become the target every other Republican needs to take down, and he won't have the shield of Trumpian charisma to protect him.

[Blackhawk]

I always felt that the one thing saving us from Trump was Trump. He was too incompetent to be as dangerous as he wanted to be. A competent Trump-like? I almost think we'd be better with the original.

[Unagi]

I always felt that the one thing saving us from Trump was Trump. He was too incompetent to be as dangerous as he wanted to be. A competent Trump-like? I almost think we'd be better with the original.

I am of the same mind. I feel like the stewards of the country (those that will come out and vote against Trump) are perhaps reliable. It's disturbingly close, but I hold on to some comfort that I think "America" may be over him as an electable candidate (*state voting shenanigans notwithstanding)... But to introduce a viable alternative that may be able to 'wink and nod' his way with the former Trump base into jumping Trump's ship - it makes me worry.

Now that being said, I think DeSantis may find that his national appeal isn't quite the same 'ass-whooping' that he is able to show in Florida. Especially because I think that the 'stewards of the country' group would see him as being the new Trump.

[Unagi]

I'm still convinced that the DeSantis appeal is

The narrative that has me convinced is:

Florida has seen a great influx of residents that moved there specifically for DeSantis' politics. He wins in Florida because it's a concentrated DeSantis country. The rest of the country fell in love with Trump and hasn't switched... but the fear is (IMO) if DeSantis can harness the "Hate King" crown... if that happens - then we are up for a change in leadership and the new leadership will indeed be better at being horrible.

I still like to think that the stewards of the country would respond appropriately to this.

[Isgrimnur]

Those folks all moved from somewhere, too.

[Unagi]

Those folks all moved from somewhere, too.

Yeah.
Places with electoral votes that will no longer hear their political voice.

[Carpet_pissr]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

Throws in for what? POTUS? He can't be POTUS.

I would have agreed with that a few years ago. However, he’s an American God (wealth). With enough money, I’m not sure anything is off the table.

[Grifman]

Florida has seen a great influx of residents that moved there specifically for DeSantis' politics.

That’s an assertion I’ll need to see some evidence for. A quick google search says jobs, weather, lower taxes, cheaper housing, etc. Nothing said anywhere about political reasons, much less DeSantis. And governors come and go - who is going to uproot and move because of a guy that will be out of office on 4 - 8 years.

[pr0ner]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

Throws in for what? POTUS? He can't be POTUS.

Yet.

You really think a constitutional amendment could get through to make that happen?

[El Guapo]

I'm still convinced that the DeSantis appeal is largely a product of wishful thinking. Most of the GOP's leading lights understand that Trump is toxic and that there's a solid chance he gets indicted. Their great hope is that DeSantis represents "MAGA without (or after) Trump."

But DeSantis is a plodding, petulant, uncharismatic doughy guy. He's Ted Cruz without the baggage of long familiarity. His current strategy of leaning into the culture war indicates weakness, not strength; it's how you appeal to the MAGA base but not to swing-state independents.

DeSantis will never be able to hold a Trump-style rally. He just doesn't have the stage presence for it. Trump is a TV star while DeSantis is the dealer who tries to sell you on undercoating for your car.

He's also peaking early. If and when Trump's fall comes about, DeSantis will instantly become the target every other Republican needs to take down, and he won't have the shield of Trumpian charisma to protect him.

The main reason to think that DeSantis has a shot against Trump is that the conservative media machine is, at the moment, pushing him over Trump. The Republican elites want to ditch Trump because he's an overall liability, and the conservative media is the necessary tool for getting Republican primary voters on board.

Obviously the conservative media (and 99% of the GOP) will immediately switch to "we have always loved the Dear Leader above all" mode immediately if Trump is on the path to winning the nomination. But I do think that DeSantis has a shot.

[Carpet_pissr]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

Throws in for what? POTUS? He can't be POTUS.

Yet.

You really think a constitutional amendment could get through to make that happen?

I really think that governments and specifically the rule of law is an idea that doesn't exist in the physical world. It only exists because enough people believe in it. We are seeing the erosion of that belief, and things that were considered unthinkable only 10 years ago, have been happening (politically, judicially, civically, etc). That's putting it a BIT strongly, but it's no longer as silly an idea as it was a few years ago is my point here.

[pr0ner]

Just wait until Elon throws in. Wheeee!

Throws in for what? POTUS? He can't be POTUS.

Yet.

You really think a constitutional amendment could get through to make that happen?

I really think that governments and specifically the rule of law is an idea that doesn't exist in the physical world. It only exists because enough people believe in it. We are seeing the erosion of that belief, and things that were considered unthinkable only 10 years ago, have been happening (politically, judicially, civically, etc). That's putting it a BIT strongly, but it's no longer as silly an idea as it was a few years ago is my point here.

It's absolutely a silly idea.

Elon Musk will never be POTUS. 0.0% chance.

[Grifman]

[Unagi]

Barf.

Also, what an unattractive laugh.

It’s like the Green Goblin’s cackling.

[$iljanus]

They should just get a room…or make a NFT of the two of them with Tucker gazing lovingly upon his idol.

[Grifman]

The war heats up:

“If he runs, that’s fine. I’m way up in the polls. He’s going to have to do what he wants to do, but he may run,” Trump told The Associated Press in an interview after a campaign appearance in South Carolina on Saturday. “I do think it would be a great act of disloyalty because, you know, I got him in. He had no chance. His political life was over.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3 ... point/amp/

[Kraken]

I miss the olden days, when I would evaluate the GOP nominee on whether I could consider voting for them. I haven't voted for a Republican for president since Gerald Ford, but I have at least considered it a time or two...most recently, for John McCain, until he paired up with Palin.

I wonder if Republicans will ever nominate a worthy person again, or if only the worst of the worst will forever win the primaries.

My newsfeed said that Nikki Hailey is going to throw her name in the hat. She seems not-crazy and un-evil, but she does have the stench of trump on her.

[hepcat]

Hailey is a two faced sycophant. She condemned Donnie when it was politically safe and then backs away from that when confronted by any of the orange shitbags fans. She’s not someone I would ever vote for.

Anyone from the Trump admin is a lost cause. They’re a rot that has to be cut away to save the party. If that’s even possible at this point.

[malchior]

She seems not-crazy and un-evil, but she does have the stench of trump on her.

Wait until you get a good look because she is the understated crazy of GOP olde and she is evil though in a far less fascist way (think slimy). She probably has no chance of getting the nomination in any case.

[Kraken]

She seems not-crazy and un-evil, but she does have the stench of trump on her.

Wait until you get a good look because she is the understated crazy of GOP olde and she is evil though in a far less fascist way (think slimy). She probably has no chance of getting the nomination in any case.

I wasn't suggesting that I'd consider her so much as lamenting whether I can ever even think about supporting a national-stage Republican again. I mean, she has no chance because she isn't crazy evil enough.

[malchior]

Yeah I got that. That whole party went off the rails. I actually voted for Dole and Bush (the first time). Dole at least was a good man. Bush was...surrounded by the onset of this madness. It's hard to believe it has gotten so much worse than that even.

[El Guapo]

Yeah I got that. That whole party went off the rails. I actually voted for Dole and Bush (the first time). Dole at least was a good man. Bush was...surrounded by the onset of this madness. It's hard to believe it has gotten so much worse than that even.

Yeah, it's crazy to look back at clips from like the Bush --> Obama transition, or like McCain talking about how Obama was a good man that he just had political disagreements with, and realize how much our political system has decayed in so short of a time. But part of it is that the past few decades there's been significant rot that lots of people across the political spectrum were downplaying - like the Brooks Brothers riot was a really bad sign thinking back on it.

[malchior]

But part of it is that the past few decades there's been significant rot that lots of people across the political spectrum were downplaying - like the Brooks Brothers riot was a really bad sign thinking back on it.

That was the first outward sign of how radical it might become. What's interesting is that institutional rot outside the GOP was setting in at the same time elsewhere. For example, when you look at Whitewater now it is clear that was a massive failure by the NY Times. That could be seen as the early 90s equivalent of the Hunter Biden laptop turned into a major, major scandal that lasted throughout Clinton's whole Presidency.

The GOP whispered that idea into the ear of someone with ambition and it took a life of its own. To this day the NY Times still hasn't reckoned with it and instead were all too happy to follow the GOP, FBI turncoats, and others down rabbit holes through the years. Our "paper of record". With time the pattern is clearer. So many of our institutions just became corrupt - likely mostly because of the judicious application of money by bad actors.

[Smoove_B]

It's also why I don't agree with the premise of this thread; I don't believe for a second DeSantis is a viable candidate for President in 2024 - especially with how much power he has there and the damage he can continue to do in FL as Governor. That doesn't mean he won't try in a future election, but I don't think it's Trump vs DeSantis in 2024.

And that's really what's hilarious to me. Either the GOP has to go all in on Trump in 2024 or risk him splitting the ticket and hurting their chances overall.

At the same time, the Democrats can't realistically float Biden again and yet they have no one else that's seemingly even trying.

We're all in Hell. There is no other rational explanation.

[malchior]

I don't want to think what happens if we end up seeing an economic slowdown in Q4 2023 or Q1 2024.

[El Guapo]

It's also why I don't agree with the premise of this thread; I don't believe for a second DeSantis is a viable candidate for President in 2024 - especially with how much power he has there and the damage he can continue to do in FL as Governor. That doesn't mean he won't try in a future election, but I don't think it's Trump vs DeSantis in 2024.

The thing to bear in mind, though, is that the Grifter Class is increasingly betting on DeSantis 2024:

[Smoove_B]

That's all true, but it goes back to what I'd said. There could be a significant number of GOP members (and their disciples) that support and would vote for DeSantis in isolation. They might want to crown him the next big thing, but TFG isn't going to allow it while he still has power. There's no scenario here where TFG doesn't burn the GOP to the ground as a 3rd party candidate if they don't endorse him.

Just like we saw with the House insanity last month, there are party members that are clearly done with him and they know they have to move on to someone else. The problem is TFG still commands too many MAGAts across the nation; I don't get the impression they're jumping ship.

[YellowKing]

I honestly don't think DeSantis has the charisma to be elected even if Trump wasn't in the picture. The guy is a whiny little bitch and a terrible debater. He's done fine in the confines of his illegally gerrymandered state, but on a national stage?

The pages of history are littered with the remains of presidential candidates who everyone thought were "sure bets" until they actually got into the spotlight.

[malchior]

Yup. DeSantis has terrible mic skills. He just doesn't have the chops to drop a great promo and get over with the MAGA faction.

[Carpet_pissr]

The question about DeSantis’ lack of charisma is relevant only in the context of who his D opponent will be.

Very, very scary IMO.

[Grifman]

Trump takes a shot:

[LordMortis]

By posting pictures from sourcing gathered from anti MAGA sources that have been circulating since when? 2021? How does that revelation go? That's mighty white of him?