Holman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 3:47 pm
The Trump hold on Evangelicals works exactly the same way. When you remind them that many of Trump's crimes and his lies were committed well after he first got their blessing for doing God's work for America, they can comfortably fall right back on the "divine plan" explanation.
So much of this. It's a prime example of why can't even start a conversation.
Incidentally, when you dig into Evangelical attitudes about Trump, you see that they frequently call him "God's David."
Most of us know David as the Israelite shepherd who killed the (ethnic enemy) giant Goliath and wrote many of the devotional Psalms and who loved God and became the greatest King of Israel.
But the idea of Trump as "God's David" points to aspects of the David story that aren't always part of the popular narrative. David was a sinner. He lusted after one of the married women in his court and conspired to have her husband (one of David's military generals) murdered. He was guilty of other sins. But he stands in Biblical mythological as a sinner who served God better than anyone and was therefore deserving of ultimate respect. The whole point is that David was God's chosen and that he was deeply imperfect.
You can see what this model makes available. When Trump is judged to be a rapist or exposed as a serial liar and adulterer, he is only more David than David. The narrative does everything it can to protect and expand itself.
Last edited by Holman on Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The stories that are starting to come out about the new speaker (your religious links earlier, to start) are getting...interesting. By "interesting" I actually mean, "terrifying".
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:02 pm
Does the Bible have a story about a 25 year old man "taking custody" of a 14 year old boy?
What is the deal with this adopted son thing? I know it's weird, but are there specific allegations of misconduct beyond just the whole situation being weird?
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:00 pm
What is the deal with this adopted son thing? I know it's weird, but are there specific allegations of misconduct beyond just the whole situation being weird?
There was no "adoption" in the formal use of that word. It was all done through a church/religious organization. I'm sure 25 year olds "take custody" of 14 year olds all the time; totally normal.
I'm not willing to go along with the idea that him 'taking custody' of a kid was as nefarious as some seem to suggest (implying pedophilia.) It could have been. It could have been entirely benign. It seems more likely that it was a white politician adopting a Black child for the brownie points ("... because I have a Black friend!") But we don't know, and we don't have any actual evidence one way or another, and I don't like throwing out such accusations (or implications) just because I don't like the guy. That is, I think, crossing a line.
There are plenty of things that we know he has done to damn him with.
Gaetz gets zero benefit of the doubt. There is no chance it was benign. We can speculate as to the degree of malignancy, but a crusader/do-gooder for minorities he is not.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
That is, I think, crossing a line.
I guess when major news media starts to run with it, we can debate whether or not it's appropriate. However, as some rando on OO, I'm noting my observations publicly and without reservation.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm not willing to go along with the idea that him 'taking custody' of a kid was as nefarious as some seem to suggest (implying pedophilia.) It could have been. It could have been entirely benign. It seems more likely that it was a white politician adopting a Black child for the brownie points ("... because I have a Black friend!") But we don't know, and we don't have any actual evidence one way or another, and I don't like throwing out such accusations (or implications) just because I don't like the guy. That is, I think, crossing a line.
There are plenty of things that we know he has done to damn him with.
Yeah, this is kind of what I'm asking about. Like are there any specific indications that something improper, as opposed to weird, happened. Seems like no. I don't think it's crazy for people to be like "ummm, what's up with that weird thing?", but just want to put it in proper context.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm not willing to go along with the idea that him 'taking custody' of a kid was as nefarious as some seem to suggest (implying pedophilia.)
I think the implied reason is more about doing it simply as a way to say "hey, I'm not racist!" when people point out the racist things you said/did/enabled through your actions (direct or indirect).
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm not willing to go along with the idea that him 'taking custody' of a kid was as nefarious as some seem to suggest (implying pedophilia.)
I think the implied reason is more about doing it simply as a way to say "hey, I'm not racist!" when people point out the racist things you said/did/enabled through your actions (direct or indirect).
Couldn't it also be a christian thing, where he's adopting the kid in his mind to save his soul or what have you?
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
I'm not willing to go along with the idea that him 'taking custody' of a kid was as nefarious as some seem to suggest (implying pedophilia.)
I think the implied reason is more about doing it simply as a way to say "hey, I'm not racist!" when people point out the racist things you said/did/enabled through your actions (direct or indirect).
Couldn't it also be a christian thing, where he's adopting the kid in his mind to save his soul or what have you?
I think it could be. The end result is still the same: doing it for their career. Otherwise, why trot them out?
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm
That is, I think, crossing a line.
I guess when major news media starts to run with it, we can debate whether or not it's appropriate.
Oh, I'm perfectly fine debating it now.
Short of any actual evidence/witness account/etc one way or another, I will simply raise an eyebrow (which is justified) and move on to things that aren't just speculation of horrific actions. Otherwise, I think, we stumble toward pizza parlor basement levels of discourse.
I don't like the guy. At all. In the least. But I prefer not to go down the path that this seems to be a stepping stone on.
I'm not really looking to go down any path. My intention was to highlight it as I feel like it's being glossed over. Is it worth further (formal) investigation? I don't know, but the whole story seems odd. Like, if it turned out the local school principal adopted took custody of a 14 year old when he was 25, I'd want to know more.
Added to the news about his wife's website (for her business) scrubbing anti-homosexual hate speech yesterday I feel comfortable in my post.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm for the brownie points
!!!
Yeah, had to do a double-take there.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
It's enough that if I worked for CPS I'd be double-checking to see if there was something legally questionable in his 'custody' approach, but not enough that I'd be knocking on his door. There are tens of thousands of fostered/adopted 14 year olds (and similar numbers of other ages past four or five), so him doing the same thing isn't suspicious in and of itself. But it still seems that the most likely motivation is to further his career, not abuse.
And, to be honest, if the media were to run with it, they'd most likely be running with the abuse angle (only through implication, of course - lawyers, you know.) It generates more clicks. As such, I'd still prefer that they continue to gloss over it until such a time as there is something more to go on.
It’s unclear whether Johnson and his son Michael have the same last name or if the child was ever officially adopted.
House Speaker Mike Johnson shares the reasoning behind his Black son appearing largely absent from his public life.
According to The Independent, the Louisiana Republican’s “adopted” son, Michael, does not wish to be included in the public eye. Johnson’s Communication Director, Corinne Day, told Newsweek that the Louisiana Republican and his wife, Kelly, spoke to Michael about the political realm in 2016.
“At the time of the Speaker’s election to Congress, Michael was an adult with a family of his own,” Day said. “He asked not to be involved in their new public life. The Speaker has respected that sentiment throughout his career and maintains a close relationship with Michael to this day.”
...
Johnson’s personal life has been thrust into the spotlight since he won the speakership, with some people taking notice of the fact that Michael was absent from a family portrait posted on the Republican’s official site.
He also isn’t mentioned in the politician’s bio, which notes that he and his wife have been married since 1999 and “have four children, Hannah, Abigail, Jack and Will,” according to The Independent.
However, Johnson has spoken about Michael on several occasions. In 2019, the Republican testified against reparations for slavery and said Michael also opposed it because it strayed from an “important tradition of self-reliance.”
...
In the same interview, he likened his and his wife’s decision to take “custody” of Michael decades ago to the movie “The Blind Side,” saying, “Have you seen the story ‘The Blind Side’? That was our story, except my Michael was not an NFL prospect…we took him in as our own.”
Now I just need to go and read up on that amazing and inspiring story behind "The Blind Side" - I'm sure that was uplifting and wholesome.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:28 pm for the brownie points
!!!
Yeah, had to do a double-take there.
Given my tendency to stumble into things, you two actually had me double checking my belief that the term was, in fact, based on the Girl Scouts.
Oh, I chuckled knowing it was unintended.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:00 pm
What is the deal with this adopted son thing? I know it's weird, but are there specific allegations of misconduct beyond just the whole situation being weird?
There was no "adoption" in the formal use of that word. It was all done through a church/religious organization. I'm sure 25 year olds "take custody" of 14 year olds all the time; totally normal.
Count me in as one who did not know there is such as thing as "informal" adoption. How is this not illegal? One is taking custody of a minor without going through the paperwork/vetting that I assume gets done when someone makes a formal adoption. I presume the paperwork/vetting is there to help increase the percentage chance that the adopting parents are going to be beneficial to the minor. Not to mention making sure things are OK in the eyes of the law. For example, what if the parents die? I presume under a formal adoption the adopted child has to be treated as a member of the family.
Take away the legal paperwork/vetting and it seems to me to be a recipe for "nothing-good-can-come-of-this".
The House released it's emergency spending proposal and it's clearly being driven by the hard right. Dollars for Israel offset by self-defeating spending cuts. No aid for Ukraine. No aid for Gaza. A policy disaster if it were to be enacted. Which it won't because he probably can't even get his party to pass it.
The effort to pass an emergency defense spending package through Congress is turning into a mess.
Senators say that new Speaker Mike Johnson’s (R-La.) demand to separate Israel funding from Ukraine and offset the $14.3 billion in Israel aid with cuts to the IRS budget isn’t going anywhere in the Democratic-controlled Senate.
It’s uncertain whether Johnson can even get his controversial proposal passed through the House, where Republicans hold a slim four-seat majority.
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Ben Cardin (D-Md.) declared the House Republican proposal to cut IRS funding to pay for aid to Israel dead on arrival in the Senate.
“It’s a non-starter. It’s a poison pill,” he said.
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:28 pm
The Johnson thing reads like he forcefully adopted a 30 year old one day.
I know, right? And I know it's different circumstances, but why does it REALLY feel very similar to the vibe from the Matt Gaetz son thing? Legit question because it could easily be "because I'm viewing these things filtered through the media bias lens of implication and suggestion".
Semi-related...I know more than a few people whose children (adopted and biological) have NOTHING to do with them now that they are grown, due to an overly religious upbringing. In one more recent case of an ex-co-worker...I don't think she fully realized it, but man, just based on the overwhelming anecdotal evidence, etc, it was pretty damning. In her case, both sons moved far away immediately (one to Japan), got married, didn't invite her to wedding, etc. They really want nothing to do with her. She refers to herself as a Prophet of Christ.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:48 pmThe House released it's emergency spending proposal and it's clearly being driven by the hard right. Dollars for Israel offset by self-defeating spending cuts. No aid for Ukraine. No aid for Gaza. A policy disaster if it were to be enacted. Which it won't because he probably can't even get his party to pass it.
After the last month - and everything that's happened in the House and internationally - that is one hell of an opening move. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:48 pmThe House released it's emergency spending proposal and it's clearly being driven by the hard right. Dollars for Israel offset by self-defeating spending cuts. No aid for Ukraine. No aid for Gaza. A policy disaster if it were to be enacted. Which it won't because he probably can't even get his party to pass it.
After the last month - and everything that's happened in the House and internationally - that is one hell of an opening move. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:48 pmThe House released it's emergency spending proposal and it's clearly being driven by the hard right. Dollars for Israel offset by self-defeating spending cuts. No aid for Ukraine. No aid for Gaza. A policy disaster if it were to be enacted. Which it won't because he probably can't even get his party to pass it.
After the last month - and everything that's happened in the House and internationally - that is one hell of an opening move. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
Not past the Senate, thankfully.
Maybe not even past the House. We'll soon see if they can pass any legislation at all.
malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:48 pmThe House released it's emergency spending proposal and it's clearly being driven by the hard right. Dollars for Israel offset by self-defeating spending cuts. No aid for Ukraine. No aid for Gaza. A policy disaster if it were to be enacted. Which it won't because he probably can't even get his party to pass it.
After the last month - and everything that's happened in the House and internationally - that is one hell of an opening move. Can't wait to see where it goes from here.
Not past the Senate, thankfully.
We'll soon see if they can pass any legislation at all.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:11 pm
Now I just need to go and read up on that amazing and inspiring story behind "The Blind Side" - I'm sure that was uplifting and wholesome.
The CBO scored the Johnson proposal for Israel aid and the offset isn't...an offset. It will add to the deficit. Little surprise there. The IRS cuts would have a negative $26.5B revenue impact on top of the $12.5B. Super serious policy.
