2023 Republican House Follies

[Carpet_pissr]

Cheney and Kinzinger should also be all over the airwaves calling them out.

Kinzinger has been, not sure about Cheney. Heard him last night referring to the 20 holdouts as people who legit enjoy just being the center of sowing chaos, and this is fun for them.

[Kurth]

McCarthy made real progress here. He flipped 2/3 of the 21 holdouts. He's down to 7 NO votes, now. But those 7 seem pretty intransigent. What's he going to do to move them? I'm afraid to even ask.

[pr0ner]

Cheney and Kinzinger should also be all over the airwaves calling them out.

Kinzinger has been, not sure about Cheney. Heard him last night referring to the 20 holdouts as people who legit enjoy just being the center of sowing chaos, and this is fun for them.

I think Kinzinger is employed by CNN now.

Cheney is probably plotting whether she wants to move forward with running for President in 2024.

[Daehawk]

He should make them all the concessions and promises they want then ignore them later.

[Smoove_B]

Who should do what to whom now? McCarthy should promise his own people something and then turn around and burn them? Why on earth would he do that?

[malchior]

McCarthy made real progress here. He flipped 2/3 of the 21 holdouts. He's down to 7 NO votes, now. But those 7 seem pretty intransigent. What's he going to do to move them? I'm afraid to even ask.

FWIW the great Tim Miller pointed out the first ballot had 5 NO votes. A lot of these people were freshmen or used this episode to extract some concessions. It still doesn't look good for McCarthy long term. We shall see shortly if it's really sustainable momentum soon enough. And...as I type this McCarthy loses this vote already.

I didn't know it until today but apparently Rosendale has Senate hopes that are tied to never voting for McCarthy. He wrote an OpEd back home that'll differentiate him in the upcoming primary season. Then you have Biggs, Gaetz, and Bob Good who appear to be purely about arson. It still is unclear how they move them off their position.

[Alefroth]

or they can hold their noses and get *something,*

You keep saying that as if all they have to do is do it, but it's far from given they could get *anything*.

[Smoove_B]

or they can hold their noses and get *something,*

You keep saying that as if all they have to do is do it, but it's far from given they could get *anything*.

Yeah, I keep seeing this everywhere - that Democrats should be working with the GOP and Kevin McCarthy to build consensus, find a middle ground, etc...

Two years ago the House GOP overwhelmingly voted against certifying the Presidential election results but the Democrats are supposed to find a "middle" with them? For serious?

[malchior]

or they can hold their noses and get *something,*

You keep saying that as if all they have to do is do it, but it's far from given they could get *anything*.

Yeah, I keep seeing this everywhere - that Democrats should be working with the GOP and Kevin McCarthy to build consensus, find a middle ground, etc...

Two years ago the House GOP overwhelmingly voted against certifying the Presidential election results but the Democrats are supposed to find a "middle" with them? For serious?

Remember when the government shutdowns happened in the beginning of the Tea Party hostage taking and people were telling the Democrats they needed to work with them? Over ten years later, Trump as President, an attempted coup and they've continued setting different parts of the house on fire and the Democrats are still told they need to figure it out.

[malchior]

Back to the current nonsense, apparently the plan right now is to get the two members who are out of town back to get the magic number back up to 218 and then convince 3 of the 7 hold outs to vote present to make the math work. We'll see.

Edit: I just had a meeting and one of the folks mentioned there is some of the analysis that the Freedom Caucus was given the keys to the debt ceiling debate as a concession. That may mean the risk of a default or some extreme dalliance with a financial crisis is ahead of us.

[Smoove_B]

For the GOP, "Dysfunction in the House" is still a better media headline today than "2 Years Later - Looking back at the 1/6 attacks".

[Skinypupy]

Edit: I just had a meeting and one of the folks mentioned there is some of the analysis that the Freedom Caucus was given the keys to the debt ceiling debate as a concession. That may mean the risk of a default or some extreme dalliance with a financial crisis is ahead of us.

The crazies now have the keys to the car.

[El Guapo]

Back to the current nonsense, apparently the plan right now is to get the two members who are out of town back to get the magic number back up to 218 and then convince 3 of the 7 hold outs to vote present to make the math work. We'll see.

Edit: I just had a meeting and one of the folks mentioned there is some of the analysis that the Freedom Caucus was given the keys to the debt ceiling debate as a concession. That may mean the risk of a default or some extreme dalliance with a financial crisis is ahead of us.

Honestly the debt ceiling risk is extremely high regardless of whether that's explicitly part of any speaker deal or not. Unless Biden caves to the inevitable hostage demands (which would be extremely unwise), he's probably going to have to go the "trillion dollar coin" route.

Just incredibly stupid that the Democrats didn't wipe out the debt ceiling while they controlled Congress.

[Zarathud]

The holdouts are all dedicated to STIGGINIT to the LIBS. They’ll Go Nuclear on Monday and threaten to go with the highest vote, which would hand the House to the Democrats if the last 4 holdouts don’t change.

The extremists will blink. They can’t let the Democrats win. Ever. That’s their whole brand.

[Daehawk]

Who should do what to whom now? McCarthy should promise his own people something and then turn around and burn them? Why on earth would he do that?

Just the nuts like Boebert and Greene. Well I guess not them as they are in the Senate...but whoever is holding him up.

[Max Peck]

Just incredibly stupid that the Democrats didn't wipe out the debt ceiling while they controlled Congress.

Did they ever actually have the numbers in the House and Senate to make that happen? I'd have thought the likes of Manchin and Sinema would have blocked any such effort.

[geezer]

or they can hold their noses and get *something,*

You keep saying that as if all they have to do is do it, but it's far from given they could get *anything*.

I keep saying that they should make the attempt. It may be/probably is fruitless. I acknowledge that.

[Smoove_B]

Just the nuts like Boebert and Greene. Well I guess not them as they are in the Senate...but whoever is holding him up.

They are both in the House. Greene fully supports McCarthy because I'm sure he promised she'll be back on whatever committees she was booted from during the 117th session. Boebert is a chaos goblin that was just re-elected. She's going to be able to raise more money and earn more street cred by continuing to obstruct McCarthy. Same with Gaetz. McCarthy apparently convinced 13 of the 20 holdouts to flip and I guess we'll see how it works out for them - they're no longer pure. The remaining 7? Good luck.

[Defiant]

I have to wonder why the "moderates" - or even the sane conservatives - aren't taking issue with how many concessions McCarthy has given away to the extremists. This is just going to make him even less effective as a speaker than he would have been.

[Carpet_pissr]

McCarthy probably has it. What are the alternatives?

Still relevant, pages later.

[waitingtoconnect]

or they can hold their noses and get *something,*

You keep saying that as if all they have to do is do it, but it's far from given they could get *anything*.

Yeah, I keep seeing this everywhere - that Democrats should be working with the GOP and Kevin McCarthy to build consensus, find a middle ground, etc...

Two years ago the House GOP overwhelmingly voted against certifying the Presidential election results but the Democrats are supposed to find a "middle" with them? For serious?

Remember when the government shutdowns happened in the beginning of the Tea Party hostage taking and people were telling the Democrats they needed to work with them? Over ten years later, Trump as President, an attempted coup and they've continued setting different parts of the house on fire and the Democrats are still told they need to figure it out.

Its s hard to negotiate with folk who reject conservative people who have given them everything they want like McConnell and McCarthy.

How as democrats do you negotiate with people who deny you won a fair election, want church and state to be abolished and openly admire “managed democracies” like Hungary and Putins Russia more than their own country’s democratic tradition?

[Skinypupy]

But wait, there's more!

[waitingtoconnect]

Just the nuts like Boebert and Greene. Well I guess not them as they are in the Senate...but whoever is holding him up.

They are both in the House. Greene fully supports McCarthy because I'm sure he promised she'll be back on whatever committees she was booted from during the 117th session. Boebert is a chaos goblin that was just re-elected. She's going to be able to raise more money and earn more street cred by continuing to obstruct McCarthy. Same with Gaetz. McCarthy apparently convinced 13 of the 20 holdouts to flip and I guess we'll see how it works out for them - they're no longer pure. The remaining 7? Good luck.

Boebert was returned with a 500 to 600 vote majority in a traditionally conservative seat. It’s horrifying that she scraped in.

Probably the only thing we agree on is the need to balance the budget though we’d never agree on how I bet.

the scenario now is that we will have a Teresa May style post Brexit chaos where a small number of Republican rebels block everything as not being conservative enough. Like May MCCarthy will have to fold over and over again looking weak and ineffective to the public. And like May McCarthy will eventually be rolled by a Freedom Caucus speaker as Republican voters blame McCarthy for the stalemate and demand more progress.

[malchior]

That's accurate. Every GOP House speaker has essentially faced increasingly more hostile radicalization in their membership that eventually burns them. That's part of why many in the GOP are pushing McCarthy forward. It's like they are saying, "The guy wants the worst job in town. Let him have it."

[Smoove_B]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not the information about how the threshold to call for the elimination of the current Speaker was lowered to a single person in the majority party is real. Meaning at any point one GOP clown can stand up and call for a motion to vacate McCarthy and start this whole circus over again. On what planet would McCarthy agree to that as a concession?

This seems to suggest it was agreed upon. That it went form a majority of the majority, to 5 to 1. That's insane. Like...he could be speaker for two minutes and they could immediately try to vacate him.

[Kurth]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not the information about how the threshold to call for the elimination of the current Speaker was lowered to a single person in the majority party is real. Meaning at any point one GOP clown can stand up and call for a motion to vacate McCarthy and start this whole circus over again. On what planet would McCarthy agree to that as a concession?

This seems to suggest it was agreed upon. That it went form a majority of the majority, to 5 to 1. That's insane. Like...he could be speaker for two minutes and they could immediately try to vacate him.

Yeah. No one who wanted a functional federal government would ever push for that kind of rule. Oh. Wait.

[Daehawk]

You only need 218 and the dem have 212 so if they could rouse 6 gop votes for their guy they'd get in.

Its pretty shitty and petty how divided and set in their party ways DC had become. They used to work together for the better good. Now they dont list or represent their state or their people...just their party. If someone was guaranteed to cure cancer and aids and give everyone a million bucks if they won some election then one side would still not vote for them because...party.

[El Guapo]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not the information about how the threshold to call for the elimination of the current Speaker was lowered to a single person in the majority party is real. Meaning at any point one GOP clown can stand up and call for a motion to vacate McCarthy and start this whole circus over again. On what planet would McCarthy agree to that as a concession?

This seems to suggest it was agreed upon. That it went form a majority of the majority, to 5 to 1. That's insane. Like...he could be speaker for two minutes and they could immediately try to vacate him.

Yeah. No one who wanted a functional federal government would ever push for that kind of rule. Oh. Wait.

Honestly at this point given what he's willing to concede it seems like McCarthy really just cares about having the title Speaker of the House. Could be an ego thing, could be that he thinks he'll be better able to cash in post-Congress if he has held the Speaker title, could be that he's just an idiot...who knows.

[El Guapo]

Just incredibly stupid that the Democrats didn't wipe out the debt ceiling while they controlled Congress.

Did they ever actually have the numbers in the House and Senate to make that happen? I'd have thought the likes of Manchin and Sinema would have blocked any such effort.

I meant that it's collectively stupid for the Democrats (including M + S) to not have done so, as opposed to Democratic leadership. But as it happens Schatz (Senator from HI) has confirmed that Manchin + Sinema weren't on board.

[Alefroth]

If McCarthy does win, he'll be so weak he'll barely even be able to lift the gavel, never mind bang Pelosi with it.

[The Meal]

What I'm trying to figure out is whether or not the information about how the threshold to call for the elimination of the current Speaker was lowered to a single person in the majority party is real. Meaning at any point one GOP clown can stand up and call for a motion to vacate McCarthy and start this whole circus over again. On what planet would McCarthy agree to that as a concession?

This seems to suggest it was agreed upon. That it went form a majority of the majority, to 5 to 1. That's insane. Like...he could be speaker for two minutes and they could immediately try to vacate him.

Wasn't that the rule prior to the 117th?

[Smoove_B]

Wasn't that the rule prior to the 117th?

Yes, I think you're right. Used once in 1910 and again in 2015. The 117th fixed what they saw as being problematic (rightly so, imho) but I guess the obstructionists don't like it and someone probably pointed out how easily it could be used to purge someone in the current political environment.

Writeup here.

It's almost like someone dug it out of the procedural archives in 2015 and the 116th didn't quite know how to handle it, but now it's pretty clear they're well aware of how it could be used to screw with democracy.

But going back to self-preservation, McCarthy then is pants-on-head crazy to agree to roll that back, knowing he is putting himself in the firing line. He really, really, really, wants to hold that gavel - even if it's only for a few minutes.

[The Meal]

Thanks for that history!

Honestly, it seems like a crazy procedure. So happy we're going back to it. (/s)

[malchior]

Now there is talk that McCarthy seems to have the votes but they'll immediately vote on the rules package and they're not sure they'll have the votes for that. Welcome to the next two years.

Edit: Boebert voted Present. They convinced that idiot to take an off-ramp.

Edit 2: LOL - in a moment straight out of Veep they are reporting one of the GOP members is not in the building (or hasn't been seen) which messes up all the math.

Edit 3: Gaetz didn't vote when called. I'm wondering if he is holding off to see if anyone else flipped before voting at the end. Half-smart if that's the case.

[malchior]

It's coming down to Gaetz. He's a slippery son of a bitch isn't he. There are people all around Gaetz. Such drama! This season is starting off top notch.

And Gaetz votes Present and Gosar votes McCarthy. This shitshow is finally done...no wait. They needed a McCarthy vote from the holdouts or 3 Presents. McCarthy is seemingly talking straight to both of Boebert and Gaetz probably offering them villas or something to switch the vote.

[Alefroth]

I think slimy is more apt.

[Isgrimnur]

[malchior]

Wow they just had to hold someone back. A fight seemingly almost broke out. The GOP still trending us to 3rd world status by the day. McCarthy is holding back from throwing a tantrum.

[Isgrimnur]

[malchior]

McCarthy at the beginning to this vote smiling like an idiot to how he is glowering now is going to be all over the Internet shortly.

And he's lost vote 14.

Edit: It's becoming a strong narrative that Gaetz and/or Boebert trolled McCarthy. They are voting to adjourn to Monday at noon.